Bitcoin Forum

Hi all. Perhaps this has been discussed before (in which case I am sorry for repeating) but I was just thinking about how people can use bitcoins to hide their assets from prying eyes.

Usually when talking about hiding assets from government, people refer to rich individuals. I would propose that this use of bitcoin could be used by poorer people as well. I remember seeing an application for some government help program (might have been medicaid) where one is inelgible for the program if one has more than $3000 in assets. To me this seems like a very small amount, just a couple month's expenses. If I had that much money and no job, the government aid would look very helpful, but since I have a savings I am inelgible until later, when my position is even more precarious. So I could swap some money for bitcoin to hide the value, then report to the government that my assets are below the threshhold and get the aid.

I admit this is a bit dishonest.

Thoughts?

-Peter-

Governments are dishonest.  There is no honor amongst thieves. 

Ahh.  My tax dollars at work.

You could do that with USD cash too. 

You would be the criminal.  Not Bitcoin.

THe government is the criminal for stealing the money.
He is not a criminal for taking it back by what ever means necessary.

Peter, you perfectly describe everyday existence/survival of [virtually any]corporations.
keeping pofit/funds away from social needs, stealing funds from social/country debts"
probably.

I have no problem with anyone wanting to keep their assets private. But I question the ethics of then using the system you do not support. A parasite is locked in to a dance with the (hated?) host, and if the host perishes, the parasite must find a new host or perish as well. Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

Drink the blood of the parasite! Don't become reliant on it!

But seriously, you know why the walfare class has huge tvs and cars? They can't keep money in the bank without losing the support. They can have as many flat screens as the want though. Much better for them if they can save up value instead.

Yes, you could do this. I have no moral qualms about it whatsoever. Put it this way: Last year, my bicycle was stolen. I was furious. I loved that bike. Let's say I'm walking down the street tomorrow, and see my bike leaning up against a post. Is it immoral or criminal for me to hop on my stolen bicycle and ride away?

However, I urge caution. Firstly because you run a risk of fines and/or incarceration. I pay my taxes because I don't like running that risk. Secondly, because becoming reliant on government money is a kind of death, in terms of your independence, prosperity, and mental health. It's like moving back in with your parents, except in this case your parents are violent sociopaths.

This just in.... Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

Well for me, I would like to hide an emergency fund that NO ONE can touch or find. Forget gold, cash or swiss bank accounts.
I can make a wallet.dat file, encrypt it and then store it far far away in multiple locations that are only in my mind. NO ONE would ever find it.
Then I'd be able to get at my funds once I'm out of prison or running to another country.
Right?

Sure.  But if They sent you some of the bitcoins that were in that wallet then They might be able to track you down when you use those coins at a Ferrari dealership that is cooperating with or run by Them.

Ok I need to know quick please..
Only have a few more hours.

Hiding money is easy. Even before Bitcoin it was easy.

Spending that money without detection, that's the hard part. That's where they are watching you. 

Hiding assets is hard... e.g. a house, or a car.

They don't mind you hiding cash, because of inflation they make it worthless over time anyway.

Bitcoin is good, because it holds it's value.  So you can hide real 'wealth' instead of play-money.

 :D

I'm going to make 3 usb thumb drives then bury them 5 miles apart. How do you suggest I weather proof them?

Sealed plastic bags should do the job.
Also put it in a metal box of some sort, otherwise it might get damaged by pressure etc.


And I'd recommend storing your wallet somewhere on the net, otherwise you might run into bad luck if you get out of jail after 20 years and they had the idea of building a new skycraper cityscape at the places you buried your "Money".

Include a moisture sucking sachet or two in the package to deal with an condensation that might build up in the bag. You don't want corrosion making the drive unreadable. Or, you could try submersing the flash key in non-biodegradeable oil to keep oxidisation at bay.

Just got the call, I have an extra week. Good.

Buying bitcoins: sending cash in the mail, they'll never know it was me.
Saving bitcoins: Burying 3 thumbdrives in small jar of mineral oil.
Spending in 10-20 years: hopefully it will be $1,000 USDBTC. Anonymously sending to friends to cash in then give me cash.

Will the coins still post to my wallet if I had to already stop my software and bury the disks?

Hence the 3 thumb drives 5 miles apart.

I might do a few places on the net but i dont know of any site that saves files that long. a yahoo mail account will get delete.

Dishonest?

If you don't give them your money, they will kidnap you and put you in a cage against your will.
If you will try to protect yourself or your property, they will KILL you.

Oh no, there is nothing dishonest with hiding your property from organized crime.

Will any mineral oil suffice?

Do not use USB keys for long term data storage... The Data has a half-life of around 6years.

Use a mechanical Hard drive...

Or store your Bitcoins in PGP encrypted files that you send to all your friends + and other places...

Print our your private key on acid free paper and password (or keep pass in head). Store the printout in a double scaled bag in a waterproof box marine box.

That is one option.

You're right, I forgot flash needs power once in a while.

What about cd-r, dvd-r or bluray?
Or encrypting wallet.dat, converting to printable characters and printing?
I don't care that it would take me a month to type it back in.

If you're printing it out, it would probably be easier to do it on QR codes in chunks.

Very true. You guys are great.

Along with encryption, include high parity PAR2 files codes scattered throughout.

Ugh... Theoretically.  FBI.

FBI cant break encryption like blowfish can they?

If absolutely nobody else has access to it, if/when you die, your wealth will die with you...

use hammer and rock[to hammer you bitcoin wallet on it].
should be safe for a while -)

Step 1: Encrypt your wallet with 24 keys and then use stenography to hide it in an LOLcats image that surely will remain on the internet for eternity, if only in email forwards. Also, hide it in a popular torrent file.

Step 2: Assuming you have 10 people in your will, distribute 3 keys per person such that any one key is held by 3 different people.

Step 3: If you die, 8 people will be required to decrypt your wallet. That way, you have a cushion of 2 people who might have died with you or who are just being jerks to your other heirs.

Amazing Horkabork, i forgot about stenography!
I could just keep it as porn pics, government would never suspect.

As was suggested to me over in

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9797.msg140868#msg140868

Funnel all your bitcoins to one address, then tattoo most of the private key onto your body.  Memorize that part that you don't tattoo and voila, your wealth is stored on your body and in your head.

Hmm tattoos aren't for everyone, maybe the back then have someone read it back.
Straight out of prison break on fox.

I'm not really into tattoos myself either, but I wasn't really thinking of having it written in 72 point across your face :-)

A quick look at a key pair tells me the private key is 279 hex bytes, and that seems to include the public key in it.  279 bytes is just over 16 lines of 16 bytes.  That would probably fit under a watch strap.

lol. i may put it in my arm pit then.

Generate a new key from the hash of a long phrase you memorize. Transfer the bitcoin to this key then destroy the wallet.  Your wealth is in your head now!

Later recreate the key from the memorized phrase and recreate the wallet.

this.

just to add that a mechanical hard drive that is not live is a bad idea .. I've had cases of several hard drives taken out of the locker and refuse to spin anymore after a couple of years.

the best way, in my opinion, would be to encode your wallet into base64 or some such, commit it to memory, delete all the files and find a way to reconstruct it back from memory in the future.

I have a more convenient alternative. Rather than a long phrase, use the serial number from an old coin (many coins used to have serial numbers). Then, you'll have something like a real physical bitcoin. Keep this safe by swallowing it, but maybe put it in a balloon or something so that the serial number doesn't get eaten off by your gastric acids. From personal experience, I suggest that you stay away from spicy foods, like my neighbor's meatballs. Every few days, you'll need to retrieve the bitcoin from your BM, clean it off, and swallow it again. Maybe you could have a nice dog eat the bitcoin, because he'll have no problem eating his own poop every few days and you won't even have to clean it off. Also, your enemies will never suspect that an ordinary dog could contain so much money (dogs do not ordinarily contain more than 14 cents).

Also the dog should be armed with a pistol, but be sure to scratch off the serial number in case he needs to use it on a bitcoin thief and ditch it in a gully (dogs are rascals). In fact, you could just forget the coin and get a dog who is good at memorizing numbers, such as a dachshund.

Topic came up again:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=205597.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=205597.0)

Thoughts:

1.  Most recipients of government aid are well adapted to gaining entry to government programs regardless of their financial lot in life.
2.  Most of us are "poor" or "needy" in some way whether we realize it or not.
3.  Pay your share of taxes if you make use of things paid for by tax monies like: public education, public transit, roads, bridges, courtrooms, etc.
4.  Do not hide income made from buying and selling coin.  Report it in an innocuous manner.
5.  For all intents and purposes, I do not see a blank space on any form anywhere that allows for reporting crypto$ as an asset.  Nor do I see a place for reporting dwolla or other non-bank entities used for holding what we can all agree to is an asset.

Govern yourself accordingly.