Bitcoin Forum

screenshot or it didn't happen  ;D

screen shot of your conversations and payouts from mtgox or it didn't happen  8)

You should have taken the 10BTC and then not let up on them. You would then get some of your lost coins back  ;) The fact that they even offered makes them look REALLY bad.

Is there any actual proof that AirWolf is not insane?

Is there any actual proof that AirWolf is not insane?

Do you also want an screenshot of me in underwear?  ;D

Is there any actual proof that AirWolf is not insane?

Is there any proof he is insane?

He has done a pretty good job at making you believe he is insane yes but he is also doing some good work here which has surprised me because i thought he was up to no good.

Maybe you should have taken the btc for 'some' losses incurred during all this or gave it to the guys that are helping you..

Just a thought well done denying the bribe :)   

erm, he should have taken the bribe to confirm it was actually a bribe and not just words in an email.... then take the moral ground back by dispersing the bribe for the greater good.

I agree I think he is doing the right thing here. I think it shows a lot that he refused a bribe also...10BTC is a nice little pay day for many.

Or just returning the 10 BTC to original address. But it doesn't matter now. The matter is all open publicly.

I'm not aware of Havelock or AmHash scam, but from what I'm reading, I appreciate what OP did. Exposing malicious practices instead of accepting the bribe.

Ok, i have dealt with this before (MtGox and PBmining) and recovered ALL the money, you know how? By gathering the biggest investors and pooling with them a REWARD OF 300 BTC for the whereabouts of YOU, YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS and another 300 BTC to pay for the people that is going to PAY YOU AND THEM A VISIT.

You are not dealing here with the average guy that invests 0.1 BTC, i represent a group with almost 250.000 shares, value over 250 BTC, I represent the kind of people that it is VERY DANGEROUS to mess with in any part of the world.

So i will offer you an exit: Reimburse our shares for 250 BTC or i will start the process of hunting you and your relatives and friends. You have 24 hours, after that i will start the hunt and i will make it public, so not only you will have to pay the biggest ones, but almost every little guy that sums to the hunt. It is best for you to settle this now than settle it later, check my posts in this forum, I HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE.

Be smart, be like Mark Karpeles and Jason Boyko, they are still good and their relatives too because they acted smart, they kept this private and small and ended up losing less.

You have 24 hours.

For all the poor souls that committed the sin of trusting a not-so-clear business in the hopes of a good return and that, in your view, where stupid enough for not investigating this pbmining enough, let me tell you that bigger and more "established" guys like MtGox where scams in the long run, there is a thing in life called RISK, life is risky.

Now in my case i was watching and experimenting with it myself for months and decided to step in, for what i see, this guy really cares, what i don't know if he cares for the suspected ponzi to continue for longer time or he has a real consciousness and honesty and somehow the business is sound, i found some amazing evidence in their accounts that proves that even GHASH.IO is purchasing from PBMINING, just make a taint analysis of the account where they receive the money for the sales

I has worked for me, it is working less in the past few weeks, but my message to Puppet, Mr. Teal and the others is: STOP TROLLING OUR SUCCESSFUL PONZI-SCAM-WHATEVER. You wanted people to know?, ok, people is aware now, you want to play the avenging skull?, ok, you did.

Now i think that what you really want is all the 6000+ souls to lost our money, so please NOW SHUT THE F***K UP and STOP DAMAGING +6000 PEOPLE LIVES!!, LET OUR PONZI-SCAM-WHATEVER BUSINESS MAKE GOOD OF HIS WORD!

And for all of us that are hopeless prisoners of our decision to invest in pbmining, let's band together and protect our investment, we cannot do anything else, but try to make our boat not making more water.

LETS BE PRACTICAL HERE, the PB GUY has demonstrated that he cares. lets help him pay us.

Are you serious? You think blackmailing the family/friends/associates of a suspected scammer is acceptable at all?

I find it disturbing so many people are backing this psychopath. He's "discovered" absolutely nothing that anyone who spent 5 minutes doing research on AM/HL wouldn't already know.

Yeah, I read this as more of a "Tongue in Cheek" comment.. "Hey little kid, you're bothering me... can I just pay you to go way... you're getting annoying."..    Not any admission of guilt.. Hell, i would have probably done the same... had I not already lost it all in AM shares :)

Assuming it's real (and I've got no reason to believe Airwolf is capable of faking an email) I find it highly unprofessional. Havelock isn't exactly swimming in cash and I'm sure their shareholders would rather be paid that 10btc than have it given to some wannabe gangster who made a few empty threats.

I agree I think he is doing the right thing here. I think it shows a lot that he refused a bribe also...10BTC is a nice little pay day for many.

Is there any proof he is insane?

He has done a pretty good job at making you believe he is insane yes but he is also doing some good work here which has surprised me because i thought he was up to no good.

Maybe you should have taken the btc for 'some' losses incurred during all this or gave it to the guys that are helping you..

Just a thought well done denying the bribe :)   

There was no "Bribe" offered to Airwolf by Havelock.

Airwolf has been blasting our email all week with threats of physical harm to our employees and their families if we didn't get him his Bitcoin that he invested with AMHASH.

One of our support personal just got tired of his constant harrasing and asked him "if I give you 10BTC would you just go away?".  It wasn't a serious offer for payment, it was more of a question if he can stop harassing us.  Sure enough Airwolf turns around and tries to play a hero by claiming we somehow tried to " bribe" him.

Havelock

Okay I am just asking, how do we know the e-mails are real? Havelock has been around for years and has done a lot of volume in the community.

But who is AirWolf? Ok -- Disclaimer -- I haven't been around for six months. But seriously, that shouldn't matter, we're talking about havelock, right? They've been around for years...

ITT:  Unwilling to acknowledge/accept responsibility for being hilariously, brutally, and repeatedly assraped, intrepid investors are victimized yet again--this time by teh Stockholm Syndrome.

Allow me to speak to you as a friend, gentlemen.  You must both accept and relive the your part in this filthy [though rather amusing and ultimately just, in its own way] obscenity, or the healing can not begin. 

 

There was no "Bribe" offered to Airwolf by Havelock.

Airwolf has been blasting our email all week with threats of physical harm to our employees and their families if we didn't get him his Bitcoin that he invested with AMHASH.

One of our support personal just got tired of his constant harrasing and asked him "if I give you 10BTC would you just go away?".  It wasn't a serious offer for payment, it was more of a question if he can stop harassing us.  Sure enough Airwolf turns around and tries to play a hero by claiming we somehow tried to " bribe" him.

Havelock

http://s27.postimg.org/rgeewnadv/HLbribe.jpg

Do you also want an screenshot of me in underwear?  ;D

I've lost a few coins on dumb 'investing' but then again, I didn't have the option to trade on a seemingly reliable hosting outlet like HL for some of the stuff I dabbled in. I don't think anyone could take losing north of 100 coins in a non-serious matter. And, since we're trying to flush the BS out of the Bitcoin ecosystem, I would expect HL to reimburse all their account holders that got screwed directly or indirectly by them. Since they collect hosting fees from all these startups, they should put part of that into insurance repayments funds for when a scam goes on that was unexpected. Or, take down more info on the companies they host on behalf of or charge more to untrusted parties and such.

> lets assume you own a big warehouse with a big bureau.

Now lets' assume that all of the companies you're renting your warehouse to, against all odds [because Bitcoiners are brighter and more business savvy than Joe Sixpack], turn out to be pure shit.  Each and every one.  Over and over and over.  When these "companies" don't simply run with the bux, they find other ways to rape their victims.  Unsmilingly and repeatedly.

Oddly enough, according to the stories you tell the folks invested in your warehouse, you're also losing shitloads of money yourself.  Even while renting out your warehouse to crooks whose crookedness should be clear to a 5-yr.-old (see Havelock's own HIF).

Now, the townsfolk, they might start a-wonderin' if somethin' ain't amiss...

...
But maybe i still miss some piece of it...

Sebastian please try not to quote Silverspoon/notlambchop/Crumbs. Most of us have him on ignore and would appreciate not seeing his verbal diarrhea.

@Chef Ramsay, I don't think it's realistic for havelock to reimburse investors. Afaik they don't have any obligation to do so, and I really doubt they could even if they tried. (probably don't even have enough btc to reimburse 1/10th of amhash holders)

Real/regulated exchanges like the NYSE don't reimburse investors when a scam listed on their exchange collapses, so why would havelock?

There was no "Bribe" offered to Airwolf by Havelock.

Airwolf has been blasting our email all week with threats of physical harm to our employees and their families if we didn't get him his Bitcoin that he invested with AMHASH.

One of our support personal just got tired of his constant harrasing and asked him "if I give you 10BTC would you just go away?".  It wasn't a serious offer for payment, it was more of a question if he can stop harassing us.  Sure enough Airwolf turns around and tries to play a hero by claiming we somehow tried to " bribe" him.

Havelock

Sebastian please try not to quote Silverspoon/notlambchop/Crumbs. Most of us have him on ignore and would appreciate not seeing his verbal diarrhea.

@Chef Ramsay, I don't think it's realistic for havelock to reimburse investors. Afaik they don't have any obligation to do so, and I really doubt they could even if they tried. (probably don't even have enough btc to reimburse 1/10th of amhash holders)

Real/regulated exchanges like the NYSE don't reimburse investors when a scam listed on their exchange collapses, so why would havelock?

If Havelock really is willing to pay 10 BTC just for him to let go of all this stuff, I don't think that their funding situation is that dire. But I think it's pretty unprofessional if these mails really come from Havelock!

Sebastian please try not to quote Silverspoon/notlambchop/Crumbs. Most of us have him on ignore and would appreciate not seeing his verbal diarrhea.

@Chef Ramsay, I don't think it's realistic for havelock to reimburse investors. Afaik they don't have any obligation to do so, and I really doubt they could even if they tried. (probably don't even have enough btc to reimburse 1/10th of amhash holders)

Real/regulated exchanges like the NYSE don't reimburse investors when a scam listed on their exchange collapses, so why would havelock?

You are.
Like you, many of the finance & currency aficionados of these fora are tragically naive.  That, along with unmitigated greed & soothing reassurances of "respected members," is why they failed to see what an average 5-yr.-old would have spotted from a mile away.  That's why they "invested."

But I refuse to extend the same leniency to Havelock, who claims to vet its offerings.  It's Havelock's business, and if your butcher keeps selling you rotten meat, he's either a crook, or unfit to be a butcher. 

So even if Havelock's really as clueless as you generously allow him to be, he's fuckin' dangerous.  He must immediately stop playing Panamanian exchange & return to something better suited to his natural abilities, like digging ditches.

Still chat with Ukyo Jon?

How so? 10BTC is always going to be better than facing a claim in the hundreds. Also, if they have to go to court that will definitely cost them more than 10BTC at current prices.

...Also people were claiming that Havelock loses a lot of money and may become insolvent.

Claiming?  Go here:  https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reports.php
scroll down to here: 
http://s1.postimg.org/qx14sublb/Capture.jpg
Click on Havelock's own reports, read.
Presto, claims confirmed.

Now I'm not saying that Havelock is being honest with its financials, but if he's lying to his investors, ain't that even worse?

Well yeah, I know those reports. But what if the whole operation is backed with a stash of, say, 5000 BTC they got when they were $2 each. They could be in for the very long run and build up a brand for when there are legit stocks ('again').

I envy your fantasy life.  Just hope your trippy visions weren't chemically enhanced by Evo product.  'Cos just like AM/AMH, it gone :(

^Yeah.  Bitcoin :D

Sebastian please try not to quote Silverspoon/notlambchop/Crumbs. Most of us have him on ignore and would appreciate not seeing his verbal diarrhea.

@Chef Ramsay, I don't think it's realistic for havelock to reimburse investors. Afaik they don't have any obligation to do so, and I really doubt they could even if they tried. (probably don't even have enough btc to reimburse 1/10th of amhash holders)

Real/regulated exchanges like the NYSE don't reimburse investors when a scam listed on their exchange collapses, so why would havelock?

Well yeah, I know those reports. But what if the whole operation is backed with a stash of, say, 5000 BTC they got when they were $2 each. They could be in for the very long run and build up a brand for when there are legit stocks ('again').

Yeah, Bitcoin is also going down, man... Darn... I really wonder whether I made the right call to invest in this. Being down 90% does suck big time...

Bitcoin eco system is being weigh down by this parasites, check this:

http://www.coindesk.com/dark-market-evolution-vanishes-with-12-million-in-bitcoin/?utm_source=CoinDesk+subscribers&utm_campaign=c2af8de736-EMAIL_RSS_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_74abb9e6ab-c2af8de736-78880849

And nobody demands nothing, this is becoming the land of thieves and the home of the sheep

Well yeah, I know those reports. But what if the whole operation is backed with a stash of, say, 5000 BTC they got when they were $2 each. They could be in for the very long run and build up a brand for when there are legit stocks ('again').

since early 2012, and after this fiasco i barely got even every time with it

My message is: STAY AWAY FROM BITCOIN, IT IS A MIRAGE.

So you got in at $6 and right now its $260 and somehow you managed not to make a profit?
I guess its true what they say about a fool and his money.

FWIW, I got in a bit earlier, and to date the total amount I have lost to scams or bad investments in asic hardware or secutities is ahm..  nada, zip, njiente. 

Well if I am totally honest, I lost a 0.1 BTC bet a few months ago, not sure that qualifies.


Nope, the correct lesson you should have learned, and which I and many others have been preaching for years,  is to stay away from anything that promises to 'grow your bitcoin'. Those are the mirages you must have kept falling for time and again when you decided a few 1000% profit wasnt enough. Growing bitcoins is like growing gold, it just doesnt happen very often.

At this point, it would be interesting to see if Havelock comes out and makes a statement on this situation. I'm curious to see if Airwolf is legit at this stage, so their remarks will be interesting.

Dear AMHash Contract Holders,

ASICMINER has prepared a contract offering on HaveLock with the ticker symbol AMHashLC. AMHashLC is a contract to offer final settlement for current holders of contracts AMHash. AMHash is a bitcoin mining contract, which is currently not performing due to unforeseen events. AMHash is a complex product which was provided through the collaboration of 4 different parties ( Operator(confidential), ASICMINER, ROCKMINER, Havelock). Each party provided certain guarantees and made certain representations. The continuation of the AMHash contract is currently uncertain due to structural problems in some of the participating companies. Furthermore, it is not clear how the resulting liability should map to the contractual framework and would need to be discovered through formal proceedings.

With AMHashLC, AMHash contract holders will now have an option to accept a default on their contract and transfer any rights for claimed damages arising out of the non-performance of AMHash to the issuer of AMHashLC. The issuer of AMHashLC is ASICMINER. Please note that this offer is not an assumption of liability. It is a proactive offering to allow people to discharge of their AMHash contracts. Please study the specific details for the AMHashLC offering before you make a decision.

HOW TO SWAP YOUR AMHASH UNITS TO AMHASHLC UNITS:

Log into your Havelock Account and click on the xfr button to issue the units back to the issuer. By sending AMHash units back to the issuer your account will receive an equivalent amount of AMHashLC units in return. There is a potential time delay due to this process having to be performed manually.


For AMHash contract holders who have no account with HL: Please contact ROCKMINER for further instructions on how to migrate the contracts to Havelock. We expect ROCKMINER to make a corresponding announcement which contains the necessary details on migration procedures.

Yours truly,
ASICMINER management

AMHashLC offering:
==================

AMHashLC is a liquidated amount contract in exchange for damages and liabilities arising out of contracts AMHash. It can only be obtained by contract holders of AMHash via a swap of AMHash for AMHashLC contracts at a 1:1 ratio. AMHashLC is not tradable otherwise.

Carefully read the terms and conditions before executing the swap.

Introduction
============

AMHashLC is a contract to offer final settlement for current holders of contracts AMHash. AMHash is a bitcoin mining contract, which is currently not performing due to unforeseen events. AMHash is a complex product which was provided through the collaboration of 4 different parties ( Operator(confidential), ASICMINER, ROCKMINER, Havelock). Each party provided certain guarantees and made certain representations. The continuation of the AMHash contract is currently uncertain due to structural problems in some of the participating companies. Furthermore, it is not clear how the resulting liability should map to the contractual framework and would need to be discovered through formal proceedings.

With AMHashLC, AMHash contract holders will now have an option to accept a default on their contract and transfer any rights for claimed damages arising out of the non-performance of AMHash to the issuer of AMHashLC.

The issuer of AMHashLC is ASICMINER.

AMHashLC terms
==============

1) DEFINITION: Each AMHashLC unit represents a total of 0.0003 BTC (0.3 mBTC) payable to the holder of the contract.
2) ACQUISITION AND IRREVERSIBILITY: AMHashLC can be obtained by holders of AMHash contracts only. Each unit of AMHash can be exchanged for one unit of AMHashLC. The exchange is irreversible.
3) COMPLETE AND FINAL TRANSFER: By executing the swap of AMHash for AMHashLC, the owner transfers all prior, existing and future rights and privileges arising out of holding the AMHash contract to the issuer of AMHashLC.
4) NO RECOURSE: By executing the swap of AMHash for AMHashLC, the owner relinquishes the right for any direct or indirect claims arising out of holding the AMHash contract against any party involved in the creation, performance or sale of the contract AMHash.
4) NOT TRANSFERABLE: AMHashLC shall not be traded.
5) GUARANTEED FUNDING: Sufficient funding for all AMHashLC contracts is provided prior to the offering and is secured in BTC address 1FU3uhBR4bKTavbeiJXdHHs13W5bRjM7DA.
6) SCHEDULE: The swap will be offered until April/20/2015. After April/20/2015 the swap offering will be closed and no further swaps will be possible. The total payment to units of AMHashLC will be split into 5 equal installments paid on a weekly schedule. The first payment will be provided after April/20/2015 and prior to April/24/2015 and the combined total will be paid out before May/29/2015.
7) FURTHER OFFERINGS: We reserve the right to do additional rounds of AMHashLC offerings with the same conditions after May/29/2015, should it be deemed necessary.

Q&A
===

Q) Why should you choose to swap your AMHash for an AMHashLC contract?
A) Piece of mind and closure. You're exchanging an uncertain and difficult to enforce contract for a fully funded and scheduled payment plan.

Q) Do I have to perform the swap?
A) No - you do not have to. You have 3 choices: a) Wait for the parties to fix the product and start performing on it again b) Look into litigation or alternative enforcement options c) accept the swap

Q) Is this a scam?
A) No. It's a non-performing contract due to unforeseen events. The issuer of AMHashLC will look into the legal enforcement options against what they consider the responsible parties. By offering AMHashLC as a swap, the issuer of AMHashLC will hold the corresponding contract rights.

Q) I am not satisfied with the amount I get back on the contract.
A) The amount is chosen from practical considerations. The issuing party is currently heavily undercapitalized, the contractual situation and enforcement is difficult and the prospect for recovery of damages is limited if not to say nil. Your lawyer will likely confirm that the offer is in fact attractive.

Q) Who failed and who was responsible for AMHash?
A) The answer to that question is not easy. An important key person is missing and cannot make any statement. The only thing which is clear by now is that basic risk coverage was not considered, which makes all liabilities arising out of any of the contracts effectively unsecured claims.

What is most unacceptable of this ridiculous offer is not only the price, but the infuriating fact that you want us to wait A MONTH FROM NOW and then 5 WEEKS MORE to receive 1/4 of what we invested!!!!!

I will send the papers to my friends in the Russian government who will in turn send them to their friends in the Chinese gov. and will fry you as a cat AMHASH

For HAVELOCK i will contact Canadian IRS and denounce the whole maneuver to avoid taxes in Canada, and also file a police report against you and your brother.

Air wolf I support your efforts and admire your persistence. There is no doubt that something smells fishy at havelock. I am a Canadian who has contacted and supported havelock along the way but I have lost faith along the way. I definitely think there should be an independent 3rd party investigation into their financial activities.

Airwolf, stop putting so much effort fighting off the trolls and focus your energy towards your efforts. I think they will bear fruits when you stop allowing your energy to be sucked from you by the vampires.

-Mulletwang

Lol @ you taking airwolf seriously. You actually think this play pretend gangster is friends with Putin and is going to have him call his buddies at China to hunt down the guy who sold you unregistered securities and took off? You're delusional.

The gullibility of some people in the crypto world never fails to amaze me.

Don't try and put words in my mouth. Why do you have to constantly take digs at this guy.  Yes I have seen him post some stuff and I take much if it with a grain of salt but same goes for you and your posts. Seems like you sir are motivated to portray a certain perspective whereas air wolf might be batshit crazy but at least he comes off as genuine. So he got hit hard and is pissed and is trying to do something about it. Good for him and good for the rest of us smaller investors. Maybe he accomplishes some,   Maybe he accomplishes nothing.

I do not think I am as you suggested ( delusional). I don't think much can really be done but atleast someone is trying to get to the bottom of it. And if nothing else he is communicating his displeasure and his position to the actors in the situation. He may not succeed in his effort but I can guarantee that something is less likely to happen if there aren't calls being made, emails and letters being sent and cages being rattled.(keep it up all those who are doing this and don't be afraid to post update) jimothy idk why you think it is good to post such negativity because it stifles open and free discussions.

I am not new to Bitcoin and I have seen ponzies and scams come and go and no one ever held accountable. You are not crazy for being cynical and pessimistic. But you are an asshole for attacking people for who don't demonstrate your nonchalantness.

-Mulletwang

Most likely he's just taking advantage of the situation to extort some guy he knows has a lot of btc since it worked with Mr PBmining.

Ok, i have dealt with this before (MtGox and PBmining) and recovered ALL the money, you know how? By gathering the biggest investors and pooling with them a REWARD OF 300 BTC for the whereabouts of YOU, YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS and another 300 BTC to pay for the people that is going to PAY YOU AND THEM A VISIT.

You are not dealing here with the average guy that invests 0.1 BTC, i represent a group with almost 250.000 shares, value over 250 BTC, I represent the kind of people that it is VERY DANGEROUS to mess with in any part of the world.

So i will offer you an exit: Reimburse our shares for 250 BTC or i will start the process of hunting you and your relatives and friends. You have 24 hours, after that i will start the hunt and i will make it public, so not only you will have to pay the biggest ones, but almost every little guy that sums to the hunt. It is best for you to settle this now than settle it later, check my posts in this forum, I HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE.

Be smart, be like Mark Karpeles and Jason Boyko, they are still good and their relatives too because they acted smart, they kept this private and small and ended up losing less.

You have 24 hours.

IIRC Mr. teal was able to find a ~200 btc transaction that happened right before Airwolf comes out and says this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=887871.msg9811982#msg9811982