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Maybe Russia should deprive USA of the Statue of Liberty - it no longer deserves it.

some victory, was it worth it?


https://i.imgur.com/l86KRlY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/F7UldZF.png
https://i.imgur.com/g6y4G60.png
https://i.imgur.com/NlS5pYS.jpg

I was waiting for a post like that.

The ussr was the true reason Germany lost if Germany had conquered Russia Britain and anyone else would have been crushed by Germany.

I was waiting for a post like that.

The ussr was the true reason Germany lost if Germany had conquered Russia Britain and anyone else would have been crushed by Germany.

I don't think they want to "rewrite history" or are trying to deny the victory, which was in large part achieved by Russian troops. You seem to be ignoring that it's all about the current situation in Ukraine.

It is true that USSR did help. But it was only because Germany attacked Russia in spite of previous agreement which stated that Germany and Russia will split Europe and rule together.

It is true that USSR did help. But it was only because Germany attacked Russia in spite of previous agreement which stated that Germany and Russia will split Europe and rule together.

except that germany didn't want go to go war with britain

Yes Hitler saw the English as racially pure but when Britain declared war he intended on conquering them.

lol what?

Germany and Russia hated each other they were ideological enemies. the non aggression pact your talking about only dealt with splitting up Poland.

The USSR and the Nazi Germany were both leftist countries (yes, you read well: leftist)

"fascist = leftist"
-Snail2

::)

Nazi Germany = Fascism = top right hand corner.

https://i.imgur.com/v1zqYU2.png

Please stop that third reich wanna be shit.

Germany is lucky that we lost so early, else the us would have dropped the fatman and the little boy over  berlin and bonn for sure

BS. Have you ever read their    election program? That's a massively leftist program. Most of their supporters were the working class, many of them formerly communists. They did a lot for the well being of the working class. Here's a few things. You going to like it :).


All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently we demand:

Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.

In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.

the zionist controlled powers are fortunate the germans didn't hold out for another year or they too would have had the bomb and saved europe from becoming the self hating multicultural sodomite pile of shit the jews always wanted it to be

if i wrote what i just wrote in germany i could be put in prison for it, like i said, some fucking victory

I don't think they want to "rewrite history" or are trying to deny the victory, which was in large part achieved by Russian troops winter weather. You seem to be ignoring that it's all about the current situation in Ukraine.

Fix't.

Never forget the rise of National Socialism was largely a reaction to the bloody Bolshevik Revolution in Russia.

The prudent, hard-working Germans weren't going to put up with such Marxist scheiße happening in their country.

Sorry mate, but this one is a big pile of sh... rubbish: http://stanislavs.org/the-hungarian-amnesia/ (http://stanislavs.org/the-hungarian-amnesia/)

Well we true Hungarians used to celebrate the Day of Honour on the 11th of February. Politicians, jews, (aka the Elite) and their brainwashed zombies used to celebrate with you guys. (Be happy with it.) But they are not us, and their heroes are not our heroes, and no we are not at all grateful for exporting democracy and freedom for us :/.

The revolution, suppressed on Khrushchev’s orders, cost the Hungarian people 2652 killed citizens. The war on Hitler’s side claimed the lives of 300,000 Hungarian soldiers and 600,000 civilians – 10 percent (!) Of the total population. This is not to mention the following: the Soviet Union “shelved” the facts of Hungary’s participation in punitive operations in 1941-1944 in our country. Executions of women, burnt villages, the executions of the partisans, torture of prisoners of war – tens of thousands of victims. Documents are still kept in Russian archives: take only one case among many. On May 28, 1942 Hungarian soldiers shot 350 people in the village of Svetlov in Bryansk region “for helping the partisans”. Peasant woman gave E. Vedeshina gave testimony about it, the punishers killed her four children – 11, 8, 5 and 1 year(!) old. She miraculously survived, lying in a hole under the children’s corpses. Why am I saying this? Seems like we must forgive these kinds of atrocities, but our mistakes in Eastern Europe, no one at all forgets and is still reminding us about at every step.

Lest We Forget.
I am not a big fan of people telling me what I need to remember.
That phrase tends to be part of some heavy propaganda...

However, we've never seen complete destruction of economic systems. That's something that is hard to wrap the mind around for most. The best analogy perhaps is the First World War.  Slaughter had never happened before on this scale.The men left for the front lines in a hurry in 1914. Up for the challenge and afraid to miss the big show. They found out all too quickly that the massive slaughter that occurred on those front lines was not any kind of great struggle for a higher cause. What they found was humanity turning on itself in a global slaughter of a generation. Four years later, after unimaginable horror and destruction, the phrase was "never again". Eleven years later mankind did it all over again. When that one was over we had a new phrase: "Lest we Forget". Sometimes ... often times, it seems that our desire to dominate each other is never fully satisfied.

Oh, come on, iBREAKER, you are not THAT stupid. Are you saying the winter weather lasted for whole 4 years, including very hot summers?  ;D

indeed the NSDAP was/is originally a worker party but history showed us that all these was just propaganda and populism.
without the looting of middle europe germany could never pay their new policies.

everything the NSDAP and Hitler did was preparation for WW2 and a new 1000 year lasting german reich.
they planned the murder of everyone they deemed to be unworthy of living from the start.

dont think even extreme leftist would actually do it  ::)

Sorry mate, but this one is a big pile of sh... rubbish: http://stanislavs.org/the-hungarian-amnesia/ (http://stanislavs.org/the-hungarian-amnesia/)

Well we true Hungarians used to celebrate the Day of Honour on the 11th of February. Politicians, jews, (aka the Elite) and their brainwashed zombies used to celebrate with you guys. (Be happy with it.) But they are not us, and their heroes are not our heroes, and no we are not at all grateful for exporting democracy and freedom for us :/.

Stepping carefully on the steep stairs, I climb Mount Gellert: in 1947 there was a monument to 80,000 Soviet soldiers killed in the battle for the capital of Hungary. You can see in my photos what’s left of it – a bronze figure of a soldier with the PCA has been removed, five-pointed star is removed, the names of all 146 who died in the battle for Gellert carefully erased from the marble stella – a monument was simply made impersonal. And not far from another obelisk to the soldiers of the USSR in the center of Budapest (at Freedom Square), there is even a monument to… an ally of Hitler – dictator Miklos Horthy. And even though this initiative is not coming from the government, but from the far-right party “Jobbik”, the closeness is quite disgusting.

In very hot summers, the winter weather melts and turns into mud.  Which is also not helpful when you are trying to blitzkrieg.   :P

Regardless, if the Russians had stopped the Bolshevik Revolution then the Germans wouldn't have freaked out and went all crazy.

The revolution, the red colour revolution of 1917, was implemented by the Western powers. Don't try to shift the blame on the victims.

Also, I am not entirely sure what you meant by "we are not at all grateful for exporting democracy and freedom for us" did you mean the Western powers? OR the Soviet system (which was definitely not a democracy - an irony, as "soviet" means "council" and in theory implied direct democracy).

– 650 thousand Soviet soldiers laid their lives on the Polish soil, – says Cyprian Darchevsky, known journalist and political commentator. – We should look at them as ordinary people, young men who went to death not with a dream to install a tyranny, but with a sincere desire to free Poland from the Nazi invaders.

...

During the Nazi occupation of Poland, it lost 21.4% of its population.

...

Yes, a regime was established for 45 years in Poland, which was not a sweet for us. But nobody destroyed Poles as a nation, their country was an independent state, even under the influence of “big brother” in Moscow. Republic has risen from the ruins in the shortest timespan possible with the Soviet money. But they prefer to simply turn a blind eye on this fact in modern Poland.

So, now it's hot summers and not cold winters that were a deciding factor, eh. Let's add to the mix that Soviet Union have several climatic zones, including dry steppe regions in, for example, Crimea. Novorossijsk was bombed by the Germans for two years before they managed to conquer the city.

You are trying to diminish the heroism of the people by trying to find whatever alternative explanation you can and pushing the huge human sacrifice to the second row, or even obliterating it altogether. And this is one of the weapons used by the Western propaganda machine - the weather myth is one of them.

Also, now it's Russians and the destruction of their country that is to blame for the German aggression. The revolution, the red colour revolution of 1917, was implemented by the Western powers. Don't try to shift the blame on the victims.

Soviet... Stalin... USSR

I said it was *BOTH* hot (muddy) summers and cold (icy) winters.  Are you confused by simple logic, or just straining to manufacture inconsistencies in my position?

"German aggression?"  I guess you missed the Polish–Soviet War, and the Bavarian Revolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic).

"Heroism of the people?"  Don't make me laugh.   ::)

Overthrowing the Tsar and murdering his family isn't "heroism."

Allowing the Bolshevik barbarians to destroy a once-great world-leading Empire in a civil war isn't heroism.

Aiding and abetting a genocidal dictator like Stalin as he carves up Poland and starves millions with forced collective farming failures isn't heroism.

Absorbing German bullets until they run out and freeze/cough/starve to death isn't heroism.   :D

If Russians had a higher capacity for being honest with themselves and admitting fault when necessary, they wouldn't suffer so horribly on a regular basis.

Their conceited 'Russia is always right because Russians are the best' bullshit comes back to bite them in the ass, over and over again.

They ate up Lenin's 'death to the kulaks' class warfare BS, then blamed Lenin's ethnicity when the dead kulaks could no longer feed them or their Slavic sister nations.

By supporting the Great October Socialist Revolution, the Russians created the situation which directly victimized not only themselves, but ultimately the Germans and hundreds of millions of others.

Fuck that and fuck them!  Stop being like the Japanese war criminal apologists, grow up, and learn to admit when mistakes were made.

Blaming "The Jew Bankers" is a totally lame excuse, and beneath a people with the capacity for advanced civilization.

You buy into the poor blameless-Russian/guilty Jew Banker conspiracy theory, and have the audacity to accuse any inconveniently anti-Russian facts of being "Western propaganda?"

Give me a break.   ::)

Be sure to tell the Finns how peaceful the Communists were.  They are apparently also victims of "Western propaganda" and mistakenly believe the USSR invaded and occupied their country in an imaginary event called the Winter War.  Silly Finns, they need to stop listening to Evil Jew Bankers!  They should be grateful the Soviet Army liberated them from the clutches of the bourgeois Jew Banker devils, right?

Absorbing German bullets until they run out and freeze/cough/starve to death isn't heroism.   :D

Regardless, if the Russians had stopped the Bolshevik Revolution then the Germans wouldn't have freaked out and went all crazy.

In the summer of 1944 there was dealt a severe blow to the Nazi army in Belarus. During the operation, codenamed "Bagration", which lasted from June 23 to August 29, 1944 the main forces of Army Group "Center" were destroyed. The group of troops prepared to attack, included more than 2 million soldiers, more than 5,000 tanks and self-propelled guns, almost 5,000 aircraft.

The operation involved the armies of four fronts: the 1st Byelorussian Front (commanded by Rokossovsky), the 2nd Byelorussian Front (commanded by G.F.Zaharov), the 3rd Belorussian Front (commanded by I.D.Chernyahovsky), 1st Baltic (Commander by I.H.Bagramyan), as well as force the Dnieper Fleet.

About Finland. They were a part of Russian Empire until Lenin proclaimed them a separate state in 1917. Before that they were a part of Sweden. They still learn Swedish as a compulsory second language. He did the same with Latvia, Ukraine, Belorus, all of which were part of Russia and started to exists as separate entities on Lenin's whim, seeding the foundation to the problems that we have now

No, it's you, who are confused. In the first post you fixed things to saying that the war was won by winter weather. When I pointed out that winter does not last for 4 years, you switched to speaking about muddy summers.

"The Jew Bankers" is your words, not mine. I simply stated the nationality of the majority of the coup-makers of 1917. The rest is you attributing something that I did not say to me. A usual trick.

The support for the "Revolution" or coup d'etat of 1917, however you label it, was meagre. Bolshevicks (translates as "majority") were actually in minority, and there was a strong resistance to their coup. They rode on the anti-war sentiment in the society. The reason the coup was at all possible, was the prior 3 years of devastating war, WWI, that Russia had no interests in and was drawn into by the simple act of defence agreement with Serbia. Nikolai II was a bad, weak ruler (praised in the West). If someone like Nikolai I or Alexander III or Paul I (all demonised by the British powers) stood at the helm then, the history would have been different.

By the way, the anatomy of the coup d'etat in Russia in 1917 is similar to that of in Ukraine in 2014 - the pretexts are different, but in both cases a small group took power through intimidation and terror against the population, claiming they act in the interests of said population.


I think a few tens of million people will disagree with you, and this is exactly the reason I started this thread, so as to defend the memory of the people who laid their lives for peace against such poisonous remarks such as yours.

Finally, when you said


you utterly discredited yourself. It's the same as saying that the rape victim should go to jail for seducing and pure and innocent rapist. You also rewrite history. Look up the Versailles conditions for Germany's surrender to see what and who "freaked them out".

Is this the new scenario that the NATO trolls got distributed so as to demonise Russia and to rewrite history in one blow?

I think this will be my last "discussion" with you. Nothing will change you from the passionate Russia-hater, who is prepared to sacrifice truth and tell black is white in order to support your agenda. I won't put up with lies, even when they are directed at my enemies, but I also heed to a very good advice from Dilbert:

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."

PS: If you are such a Russophobe, maybe you should remove the image of the Russian "Arktika" icebreaker from your avatar - people may mistake you for a "pro-Russian".

And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

About Finland. They were a part of Russian Empire until Lenin proclaimed them a separate state in 1917.

Before that they were a part of Sweden. They still learn Swedish as a compulsory second language. He did the same with Latvia, Ukraine, Belorus, all of which were part of Russia and started to exists as separate entities on Lenin's whim, seeding the foundation to the problems that we have now

seeding the foundation to the problems that we have now

I thought about your comment a bit more, and I see a big problem in the second part of it. It does not pertain to the article itself, which is about remembrance of how WWII ended, but about a fundamental fault line in Hungary, that can be used implement a divide-and-conquer colour revolution in Hungary. The way you talk about "us and them" and "true Hungarians", is a way to disaster - exactly what we should be on the look-out for if we are not to walk blindly into yet another (final) world war.

There is nothing for me to be happy with - I am an ethnic Russian, and you should remember that the ring-leaders of the red colour revolution of 1917 in Russia were almost entirely of Jewish origin, financed from the West.

Also, I am not entirely sure what you meant by "we are not at all grateful for exporting democracy and freedom for us" did you mean the Western powers? OR the Soviet system (which was definitely not a democracy - an irony, as "soviet" means "council" and in theory implied direct democracy).

The article is about how the outcome of WWII is subtly altered exactly to the sentiments that you expressed in your comment.

Stepping carefully on the steep stairs, I climb Mount Gellert: in 1947 there was a monument to 80,000 Soviet soldiers killed in the battle for the capital of Hungary. You can see in my photos what’s left of it – a bronze figure of a soldier with the PCA has been removed, five-pointed star is removed, the names of all 146 who died in the battle for Gellert carefully erased from the marble stella – a monument was simply made impersonal. And not far from another obelisk to the soldiers of the USSR in the center of Budapest (at Freedom Square), there is even a monument to… an ally of Hitler – dictator Miklos Horthy. And even though this initiative is not coming from the government, but from the far-right party “Jobbik”, the closeness is quite disgusting.

So, now it's hot summers and not cold winters that were a deciding factor, eh. Let's add to the mix that Soviet Union have several climatic zones, including dry steppe regions in, for example, Crimea. Novorossijsk was bombed by the Germans for two years before they managed to conquer the city.

You are trying to diminish the heroism of the people by trying to find whatever alternative explanation you can and pushing the huge human sacrifice to the second row, or even obliterating it altogether. And this is one of the weapons used by the Western propaganda machine - the weather myth is one of them.

Also, now it's Russians and the destruction of their country that is to blame for the German aggression. The revolution, the red colour revolution of 1917, was implemented by the Western powers. Don't try to shift the blame on the victims.

At first, for the non-brainwashed Hungarians Horthy was a war hero and later a great politician who restored order and law during and after the communist revolution in 1919. With his leadership the country successfully recovered from the consequences of the first great war. He also did everything what he could to keep Hungary away from WW2. Unfortunately he wasn't a dictator that's why the "hawkish" pro-German parties in the parliament finally were able to bring the country into a war.

Second. Jobbik isn't a far right party. It's a quite nationalist conservative party what is brave enough to touch some taboos, including holding an accounting about the privatizations in the early 90's. (That was what really blown the fuse in the MSM and in the members or the then ruling parties.) BTW they are that pro-Russian kind of nazis, and the only party in the Parliament what supported and keep supporting the DPR and LPR politically and with donations. (You should read less MSM bullshit, mate :))

That monument is the symbol of more than half century of occupation, suppression and tens of thousands of ppl who died in the basements of the Andrassy Street 60, erected by the most hated government in Hungarian history for a bunch of honest soldiers but for a lot of rapists, looters and murderers as well. Are you really surprised because of we don't like it?

Changing the mindset – here’s a very well known historic example: still in April 1945 Germans, based on Nazi propaganda, not only believed Russia was the enemy, but also thought that German army was winning the war and they just had to wait a few more months for their final victory. By May 2-8, 1945, when Russian army took Berlin, Germans were forming lines to Russian soup kitchens, happy Russians fed them. When several months later most Russian troops were leaving Berlin, locals were running after tanks with flowers and tears in their eyes, sorry to let them go. Communist Party took over East Germany not only because Russian troops were there, but also because people rightly saw that Russians didn’t bomb them into oblivion, after Germans had done so to the Russian cities.

Incidentally, UK and US aviation mass bombed Dresden and other German cities into a pulp, just before Russian army rolled in. You would think Germans and Japanese should hate them, but no, best buddies. That’s why hatred towards a certain people is almost always an artificially induced psychosis that has no connection to reality, and most time absolutely superficial, present in a small %age of the population – others are just parroting. People in general don’t think and they are were good parrots, as we see in Ukraine.
Incidentally, Russians don’t hate Germans, despite what Germans did to Russia during WWII. Because there never was anti-German propaganda in Russia.

I’ve been to Dresden – US/UK bombings completely destroyed the city, which had no military or any other significance other than the fact that it was on the way of advancement of the Soviet Army, to show Russians they could do it. Same as they did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In Dresden, they used napalm and other chemicals too, so the population would burn alive and die from suffocation. Not because it was needed, but because they were trying to intimidate Russians. Hiroshima was also a warning to Russia, which of course didn’t work, as we know from history as Russians had their own A-bomb in a jiffy. Generally, trying to intimidate Russians has the opposite effect.

So, they killed hundreds of thousands and destroyed whole cities to SEND A WARNING TO RUSSIA! And of course so Russians would have to spend resources to raise the city out of ruins later, when peace came, since it was already known that Dresden would be in the Russian occupation zone. They purposefully destroyed something they knew would fall on the Russian shoulders. Same as they are doing now to Ukraine, I might add!

Who is the evil empire again – and always has been? Those of my naive US readers (not you, of course) who think US was at one point or another a nice, gentle, democratic country, should really open their eyes. The documentaries, with footage of the brutal Dresden bombings should be available on YouTube. I am sure after a search one can also find the documentaries with people all over Europe throwing flowers, hugging and greeting Soviet soldiers as liberators.

Again, this info is very thoroughly suppressed by the West; they may even delete documentaries about how Europe greeted the Soviet army. These documentraries are available in Russian on YT I think, if not in English. I saw plenty of such documentaries growing up, because they were understandably not suppressed in Russia.

(As to brainwashing and falsification of history: I have so many facts – too many, as history has been completely and totally falsified – that I could talk for hours.)

All over Europe, Russia was considered THE liberator. That was when people still knew first-hand who did what during the war and before they were brainwashed. Stalin and communist party were the most popular party in most European countries. Italy, Greece, France and some other countries were leaning towards communism. So much so that US/UK/global capitalist elites panicked and started acting fast to ERAZE THE IMAGE OF RUSSIA AS LIBERATOR AND RE-CREATE THE IMAGE OF RUSSIA AS A VILLAIN. What they will never tell you in US or EU (god forbid admitting it) is that in 1945-1955 ALL of Europe was deeply communist, or communist sympathising, because they saw who liberated them and were convinced communism or socialism were the way to go.

Do you know what happened in Italy? After the war, communists had the majority in parliament, but the country was destroyed and people were starving. US gave ultimatum: Italy will get money and food, if they boot out communists. And Italians did, to get US loans. Same happened in some other countries.

Then US moved in with its MSM. And within 10-20 years they completely falsified history and convinced the popualtion AGAIN! that Russia was evil. The Marshall Plan was a bribe and a dangling carrot for Europe, and especially for the elites. Elites, for money and because they had no choice as they had to rebuild the destroyed continent, all started singing ‘Russia is evil’ song for money and percieved US protection. How’s that different from mafia?
Then US MSM took over the whole Europe and the globe. US was the last man standing, and after WWII, US got control over the rich Western Europe. Russia had to rebuild herself after war, and also drag along the poorest countries of Eastern Europe. And still USSR did better than US until…
Then, certain mistakes by USSR, specifically Khrushev, such as allowing dollar to become world reserve currency, created a time bomb we are dealing with now. This is a long story and has to do with Stalin and his death by poisoning.

So, blaming Russia for not doing enough in Ukraine, or for not having enough influence in the EU, or not having a good MSM propaganda, isn’t right, if all facts are understood. Russia had to fight a very unequal fight, which started long before WWII (in fact, 1000 years ago, when the Galactic Night began). But between 1917, and especially after WWII, this fight entered its acute and final phase before the great Earth Shift, or the beginning of the Galactic Dawn, which we are experiencing now.

"fascist = leftist"
-Snail2

::)

Nazi Germany = Fascism = top right hand corner.

https://i.imgur.com/v1zqYU2.png

Nazis = National Socialist German Workers' Party
Socialism = leftist
Check & mate.

The following fragment of a comment by Lada Ray to a reader comment to her post here
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/crazy-asylum-called-ukraine-west-wont-give-us-weapons-if-we-have-peace/
is very much worth reading on its own:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8181/8020944059_502e630b53.jpg

Here are your Soviet  liberators giving nazis high fives in 1939 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk)  after they together tore Poland apart.

There are many interesting (and inconvinient for USSR fanboys) facts about Hitler's and Stalin's cooperation before 1941.

That non-aggression pact was a brilliant tactical feat that postponed an imminent attack of Germany on the Soviet Union at a time when USSR was fighting with Germany's ally - Japan - in Mongolia. At that time USSR could ill afford fighting on two fronts, and would have surely lost. If not for that pact, Europe and Russia would be speaking German now, and China and the rest of Asia - Japanese. Always look at a a bigger picture.

I like Lada Ray's articles but in this case I'm afraid she seriously overlooked something. Apart from the Serbians and the jews, nobody really seen the soviet army as liberators. They were seen as yet another occupying army and as they didn't went home after the war but stayed almost everywhere across Central Europe to support puppet governments and suppress rebellions, they were actually an occupying army indeed. You see, I can understand when Russian people expecting positive feedback for their efforts and sacrifices, but Stalin and his successors, together with their puppets screwed that up badly. They replaced one kind of tyranny with an other similarly bad one. The memory of the soup kitchens usually fading away pretty quickly when some NKVD trained and supervised state security officer tearing away your fingernails or beating your kids before your eyes to extract a confession about your anticommunist deeds.

On the note of bullet-point 1 in my reply to Snail2... The American ambassador to Czechia made a statement on the state Czech TV, condemning the Czech President for going to attend the 70th anniversary Victory parade in Moscow.
I really liked the Czech President's firm response. He said that he can't imagine a Czech ambassador telling the American president how to conduct his foreign affairs, and that he will not tolerate any ambassador telling him what to do. He further said that the American ambassador is no longer welcome at Prague City government complex.

On the note of bullet-point 1 in my reply to Snail2... The American ambassador to Czechia made a statement on the state Czech TV, condemning the Czech President for going to attend the 70th anniversary Victory parade in Moscow.
I really liked the Czech President's firm response. He said that he can't imagine a Czech ambassador telling the American president how to conduct his foreign affairs, and that he will not tolerate any ambassador telling him what to do. He further said that the American ambassador is no longer welcome at Prague City government complex.

statistically speaking, it was the other legs of the Allied Powers that were the reason for the Soviets victory

Take your BS to somewhere else. 75% of the German army and a large part of the Japanese were involved in fighting the Soviets. Without the Soviets London would be speaking German instead of English now.

Take your BS to somewhere else. 75% of the German army and a large part of the Japanese were involved in fighting the Soviets. Without the Soviets London would be speaking German instead of English now.

Is that what they teach you in your Russian schools? If not for the Russian and their help in securing Poland Hitler would have to dedicate much more time and resources in that region. If on the other hand Russians broke the agreement and defended Poland... But their move was to be expected since both Germany and Russia shared flawed socialist ideology.

That non-aggression pact was a brilliant tactical feat that postponed an imminent attack of Germany on the Soviet Union at a time when USSR was fighting with Germany's ally - Japan - in Mongolia. At that time USSR could ill afford fighting on two fronts, and would have surely lost. If not for that pact, Europe and Russia would be speaking German now, and China and the rest of Asia - Japanese. Always look at a a bigger picture.

Oh, I forgot how generous Stalin was in Yalta. He later robbed the country of its resources for years, for example in "The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange", where they moved the border to annex rich coal deposits, that belonged to Poland. Say what you like I will never feel thankful to the Soviets, they did more harm than good in Europe.

The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange was necessary, as large parts of the then Poland had majority populations of Belorussians, Lithuanians and Ukrainians, who never accepted the Polish domination of their lands. Poland ceded its eastern territories, which were having a majority of Belorussians and other ethnic groups, while they gained territories such as Silesia and East Pomerania, where Poles constituted a simple majority.

Really? It was 'necessary' for the good of the people and had nothing to do with rich coal deposits at all, right. How generous of USSR! Poland received unhabitant forests and USSR grabbed rich coal deposits. "Officially, the Polish side claimed that the exchange took place on Warsaw’s initiative. However, in the early 1950s, Poland was de facto ruled by Moscow and all decisions were taken there. The Soviets claimed that the area of Ustrzyki possessed deposits of oil, but it turned out that all sources had been exploited". You can read more here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_territorial_exchange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_territorial_exchange)

Really? It was 'necessary' for the good of the people and had nothing to do with rich coal deposits at all, right. How generous of USSR! Poland received unhabitant forests and USSR grabbed rich coal deposits. "Officially, the Polish side claimed that the exchange took place on Warsaw’s initiative. However, in the early 1950s, Poland was de facto ruled by Moscow and all decisions were taken there. The Soviets claimed that the area of Ustrzyki possessed deposits of oil, but it turned out that all sources had been exploited". You can read more here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_territorial_exchange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_territorial_exchange)

Looks like the Czech President got pressured after all. He will come to Moscow, but will not attend the Parade, using the time for talks with Slovak PM:
http://ria.ru/politics/20150410/1057789887.html

The nazi's won. You're all disillusioned.
They took over the US govt and have been working their agenda back into the world since than.

Here is a remarkable list of films (in Russian and English) released by Hollywood during the period between 1942 and 1945:

“Дни Cлaвы” – Days of Glory, 1944
“Mиccия в Mocквy” – Mission To Moscow
“Ceвepнaя Звeздa” – The North Star (тaкжe извecтeн пoд нaзвaниeм «Бpoниpoвaннaя aтaкa» aka, Armored Attack)
“Пecня o Poccии” – Song Of Russia, 1944

The story of these films is truly incredible and hard to imagine in view of today’s escalation of anti-Russian rhetoric and saber-rattling. After maligning the young Soviet Union for years since 1917, in 1941-42 Hollywood suddenly was charged with creating a positive PR campaign, in which Russia would be portrayed as a “nice country, with people just like Americans, who want to live in peace and who value their culture, music and art; who work hard and who also fight hard to defend their country.” All this was supposed to help “the war effort,” as expressed by the US President Franklin Roosevelt.

For this piece, I chose to talk about Days of Glory and Song of Russia.

...

Let’s get this straight:

American and British propaganda worked hard to create a threatening and negative image of Russia in the form of the young USSR, after they first financed Lenin and the Bolshevik revolution. Then, when emergency knocked on the door in the form of the advancing Hitler armies (the monster who was also their handiwork), they began working equally hard to dispel what they had created! As soon as the war was over, MSM and Hollywood were back on track re-creating the image of Russia as USA’s worst enemy, organizing the Iron Curtain and Cold War in the process.

Next, in 1991-1998, when Yeltsin and Co. were conducting the wholesale sell-out of the country to the West, US media again worked hard to dispel the image of Russia as an enemy they carefully maintained in the previous 40 years. In the ’90s, I lived in the US and I remember the sudden and shocking turn to the positive propaganda. Yeltsin’s Russia was praised. Why not! It was, after all, the regime that surrendered to the West all the prized properties and achievements generations of Russians had worked hard to create. Meanwhile, the same propaganda machine conducted a bashing campaign against stubborn Serbia because someone still had to play the arch-enemy’s role while Russia was otherwise engaged.

...

Lada Ray published an incredible article, detailing how fickle the public opinion is, showing it on the example of several war-time films that came from Hollywood and made for a strong pro-Russian propaganda. Then, after Roosevelt's death (murder?) the propaganda made a U-turn, demonising Russia/USSR, then a new U-turn during Gorbachov/Yeltsin, when it became possible to break USSR and pillage Russia, and a new U-turn again, when Putin came to power and shut the flood-gates.

This is a translation from Russian of two historical articles, published in Argumenty i Fakty on the 3rd of April 2015.
The main article was written by Georgij Zotov. A subsequent expert opinion is presented by historian Rudolph Pihoj.

On the eve of the 70th anniversary of Victory “AiF” tried to imagine: what would the map of Europe look like, had USSR not given thousands of kilometres of territories as present to those countries that now call us occupiers. And if they would give up these lands now.

Wroclaw – one of the most touristic cities of Poland. Crowds with cameras are everywhere, there’s not a spare spot in the expensive restaurants, taxi drivers ask for ungodly prices. At the entrance to the marketplace there waves a banner saying “Wroclaw – a real Polish charm!”. All seems fine, but as early as in May 1945 Wroclaw was called Breslau and had not belonged to Poland for 600 consecutive(!) years before that. The Victory Day, now referred by Warsaw as “the beginning of the communist tyranny,” added to Poland the German Silesia, Pomerania, as well as 80% of East Prussia. No one mentions this now: in other words that was a tyranny, but we’d still grab that land. “AiF” observer decided to understand, what would the map of Europe look like now, if our former brothers in the East were left without the help of the “occupiers”?

...

Don’t miss this video!

This is a very nice song about the Great Patriotic War (WWII) and the Great Victory. The real documentary footage from 1941-45 is a revelation, including battles, the historic Victory Banner over Berlin’s Reichstag, but especially, the striking footage of how those who were lucky to survive were greeted back home.

“For all those who are alive, and who are already gone – and for those who are still to be born…”

"Due to the fact that the "Night Wolves" were officially denied entry to Poland, Hirurg (the leader of the club - Ed.) will give the message (the message from the veterans of the Great Patriotic War to the veterans of Europe - Ed.) to the Europeans through their Polish biker friends. Our brothers in spirit will anyway reach Berlin! "

Polish authorities are going too far in their boot-licking.

As we all know, the only 3 countries that opposed the recent UN resolution against glorification of Nazism are USA, Canada and Ukraine.

Poland didn't have anything against, when fully-armed US troops waltzed over their country.

However, they blocked the Russian bikers, civilians, on their motor-cross "The Roads of Victory", commemorating the 70th anniversary of the Victory over Nazi Germany. Not only Polish authorities grill the bikers and journalists - all having valid Schengen visas - for 6 hours at the border, they failed to give any plausible reason for the refusal to enter the country. The bikers were intimidated with fully-armed special police detachments. Polish ambassador received from the Russian Foreign Ministry a note of protest with a request to give formal explanation of blocking the commemorative action, calling a total refusal to remember the Auschwitz.

http://tass.ru/politika/1938466
http://www.kp.ru/daily/26372.5/3253603/

Not only that, but the Polish authorities put a military cordon with armoured vehicles around a memorial cemetery, prohibiting Polish bikers, who took up the cross, from entering it and laying flowers to the graves of the Soviet soldiers, who 70 years ago paid with their lives for liberation of Poland. Polish authorities have thus used military against democratic right of their own Polish citizens.

(1) Stalin and Hitler agreed to split the country in half. (2) I wouldn't say they were liberated at all. (3) They were only "liberated" from one oppressive regime to another.
A little ridiculous though.

During the Nazi occupation of Poland, it lost 21.4% of its population. During the period of 1939-1945, the country was dismembered: Western region attached to the Third Reich (by sending in two million German immigrants), and in the east there was established General Government of Reichsleiter Hans Frank. Colonists were given the best land and homes, confiscating them from the local residents, with hundreds of thousands being driven out. Poles were considered “Untermensch” second-class nation – they could not even go to the same tram with Aryans. The worst SS concentration camp in human history worked on Polish territory – Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek. The Germans destroyed nearly 40% of the buildings, a third of the population was homeless. Is it better than what happened later?

Yes, a regime was established for 45 years in Poland, which was not a sweet for us. But nobody destroyed Poles as a nation, their country was an independent state, even under the influence of “big brother” in Moscow. Republic has risen from the ruins in the shortest timespan possible with the Soviet money. But they prefer to simply turn a blind eye on this fact in modern Poland.

– In 1945 Poland received the cities of Breslau, Gdansk, Zielona Gora, Legnica, Szczecin, – says Maciej Wisniewski, a Polish freelance journalist. – USSR also gave the territory of Bialystok; with the mediation of Stalin, we acquired a disputed with Czechoslovakia city Kłodzko. Nevertheless, they believe here: the partitioning of Poland by the Molotov – Ribbentrop Pact, when the Soviet Union took the Western Belarus and Western Ukraine, was unfair, but the transfer by Stalin to Poland of Silesia and Pomerania is absolutely fair, you can not dispute this. It is fashionable to say now that Russians did not liberate, but conquered. However, it turns into an interesting kind of occupation, when Poland got for free a quarter of Germany: and on top of it, hundreds of thousands of Soviet soldiers shed their blood for this land. Even the GDR resisted, not wanting to give Szczecin to the Poles – the dispute over the city was finally solved only in 1956, under pressure from the USSR.

1. Wrong perception of the event. I'll repeat, what I wrote earlier (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007676.msg10945854#msg10945854):
That non-aggression pact was a brilliant tactical feat that postponed an imminent attack of Germany on the Soviet Union at a time when USSR was fighting with Germany's ally - Japan - in Mongolia. At that time USSR could ill afford fighting on two fronts, and would have surely lost. If not for that pact, Europe and Russia would be speaking German now, and China and the rest of Asia - Japanese. Always look at a a bigger picture.

2. You are mixing up liberation of Poland and the prior strategic move designed so as not to lose the war before it even started. Read the following two articles:
http://stanislavs.org/the-sorrow-of-a-warsaw-woman-why-poland-is-not-happy-to-be-liberated-from-fascism/
http://stanislavs.org/ungrateful-europe-what-would-have-happened-should-we-push-hitler-back-just-to-our-borders/

3. An "oppressive regime" that gave Poland large landmasses, treated Poland as a nation, infused Polish economy with Soviet funds, workforce and engineers (at a detriment to the Soviet Union/Russia). See the two articles above.

that's your "perception". I'm not mixing anything up. Poland was free and not part of either nazi germany or ussr.
So they were not liberated and I stand by that statement.

During the Nazi occupation of Poland, it lost 21.4% of its population. During the period of 1939-1945, the country was dismembered: Western region attached to the Third Reich (by sending in two million German immigrants), and in the east there was established General Government of Reichsleiter Hans Frank. Colonists were given the best land and homes, confiscating them from the local residents, with hundreds of thousands being driven out. Poles were considered “Untermensch” second-class nation – they could not even go to the same tram with Aryans. The worst SS concentration camp in human history worked on Polish territory – Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek. The Germans destroyed nearly 40% of the buildings, a third of the population was homeless. Is it better than what happened later?

Facts? you speak of facts but you keep twisting them.
Poland was a sovereign nation before WWII, what is there is to debate about this?
This is truth, nothing is being twisted. I'm sorry you failed history or was given a revisionist view of it.
But you keep up with the USSr propaganda BS I'm done with stupid.

Not many on this forum would have started a thread like this Nemo - so I congratulate you. There are some great links as well, which I fully intend working my way through. So thankyou.

Its peculiar, but I looked up Soviet WW2 losses not long back when there was a commemoration of the Holocaust this year. There seems to be regular remembrances (in the UK at least - I can't speak for anywhere else) of the Holocaust, I've been brought up on them. And of course Hollywood has played its part here.
So I came to wondering how many were lost by the Soviet Union - because, as we all know, it was the Soviet Union that, to all intents and purposes, won WW2.

And I found that even though it was Soviet troops that liberated several of the concentration camps and themselves lost up to (IIRC) 17/19 million civilian lives, not to mention about another 6 million soldiers on top of this, this loss is never acknowledged in the West, let alone commemorated.

Makes me ashamed TBH

I've made a new translations:

President Putin's account of his family's fighting and survival in blockaded Leningrad
“Life is such a simple, yet cruel thing”
http://stanislavs.org/life-is-such-a-simple-yet-cruel-thing/

That is what I would call an "eye opener" - anyone that wants to understand Putin (and possibly the Russian people) might be well advised to read that translation.

Of course, no-one today in the bloated West wants to understand.

No-one wants to comprehend 27 million deaths - how can one man understand sacrifice on that scale, even if the will were there to do so ?



So we ignore it.




Except when the slaughter relates to the experience of the Jews and the 6 million lost in the Holocaust - in which case we are graciously asked to make the effort.

But as for Hitlers "subhuman" slavs - we ignore it.

A bit like Hitler himself might have.

We maybe would have been more caring for their loss if we hadn't been in a cold war with them the second the war with Germany ended.

That is what I would call an "eye opener" - anyone that wants to understand Putin (and possibly the Russian people) might be well advised to read that translation.

Of course, no-one today in the bloated West wants to understand.

No-one wants to comprehend 27 million deaths - how can one man understand sacrifice on that scale, even if the will were there to do so ?

So we ignore it.

We maybe would have been more caring for their loss if we hadn't been in a cold war with them the second the war with Germany ended.

Hundreds of thousands of Muscovites are taking part in the so-called 'Immortal Regiment' march, carrying photographs of their relatives in memory of those who took part in the Great Patriotic War (a term used in Russia and other former Soviet republics to describe hostilities on the eastern fronts of World War II in 1941-1945).

Today is truly a historical day.  For the first time ever the West has boycotted the Victory Day Parade in Moscow and, also for the first time ever, Chinese forces have marched on the Beautiful Square (“Red” square is a mistranslation – the “Red Square” ought be called the “Beautiful Square”) with the Russians.  I believe that this is a profoundly symbolic shift and one which makes perfectly good sense.

The real reason why the US/NATO/EU countries have boycotted the celebrations in Moscow is, of course, not their very modest contribution to the defeat of Nazi Germany, but their unconditional support for Nazi Ukraine: the “country” which considers Stepan Bandera a national hero, the OUN-UPA death squads as a “heroic liberation movement” and the liberation of the Ukraine as a “Soviet occupation”.  It is also a fact the the Anglos have always shared these feelings and that had developed several plans for total war against the USSR were considered right at the end of the war which  I have already mentioned them in the past:

Plan Totality (1945): earmarked 20 Soviet cities for obliteration in a first strike: Moscow, Gorki, Kuybyshev, Sverdlovsk, Novosibirsk, Omsk, Saratov, Kazan, Leningrad, Baku, Tashkent, Chelyabinsk, Nizhny Tagil, Magnitogorsk, Molotov, Tbilisi, Stalinsk, Grozny, Irkutsk, and Yaroslavl.

Operation Unthinkable (1945) assumed a surprise attack by up to 47 British and American divisions in the area of Dresden, in the middle of Soviet lines.This represented almost a half of roughly 100 divisions (ca. 2.5 million men) available to the British, American and Canadian headquarters at that time. (…) The majority of any offensive operation would have been undertaken by American and British forces, as well as Polish forces and up to 100,000 German Wehrmacht soldiers.

Operation Dropshot (1949): included mission profiles that would have used 300 nuclear bombs and 29,000 high-explosive bombs on 200 targets in 100 cities and towns to wipe out 85% of the Soviet Union’s industrial potential at a single stroke. Between 75 and 100 of the 300 nuclear weapons were targeted to destroy Soviet combat aircraft on the ground.

Hellstorm - Exposing The Real Genocide of Nazi Germany (Full Documentary) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMCOKNCwHmQ)

Let's also remember that the German people - innocent women and children - were subjected to far greater death, torture and destruction than the Nazis ever foisted on others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMCOKNCwHmQ

:)

Something that no one has forgotten, is the bombing of Berlin and other cities by the Anglo-American aviation. “40,000 civilians were killed in Hamburg in 1943, two years later in Dresden – 25,000. We can’t even put a memorial to them – the “allies” of Germany will misunderstand – says businessman Volker Heinecke, who in 1942, as a two-year child, was kidnapped by the Nazis from the USSR and placed in an SS child centre “Lebensborn”. – I was five years old, but I remember very well how residential neighbourhoods of Hamburg burned: the bombs fell nearby”.

And one more thing… looking for water in a deserted village, we found… a well, jammed with children. Around them lay dead mothers. A child was nailed to the house door with a bayonet… How could have we treated Germans after all that we’ve seen?!

Geopolitical message to the world

Throughout the entire day of May 9, 2015 Vladimir Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping were seen together, talking all the time, while watching the parade and concert – you will see them again in this video of the Red Square concert. This is a clear geopolitical message to the world! Some analysts have said that a new anti-fascist coalition was formed on Red Square on May 9th. Those leaders who came to Moscow celebrations and brought their troops with them are in it. Those who didn’t come… you do the math. This may be correct on some level.

But it goes beyond that – far beyond. The fact that leaders of China, India and a number of other EURASIAN countries arrived, while only Serb and Cyprus presidents were present from Europe, sends another signal.

What you say there is a statistical impossibility. Unless, of course, you are following the current trend, and conveniently forget about the 27 million (of them 18.3 million civilian) Soviet casualties.

As May 9 approaches, you can take a digital plunge into Russia’s V-Day preparations from across the world. RT online reporters and cameras are just about everywhere, be it in the skies or on the ground.