I'm geting one. ai think the 12 month lead time is conservative, to give Obelisk some cushion in case of (un)expected delays. 950 is about what it would yield at current prices, but if it appreciates after the ASICs are on board, the amount of machines mining would be steqdy. First batch users would in effect have a mining monopoly, until the next batch... Just my humble opinion. It could definitely go south for any number of reasons. Certainly its the most speculative hardware I'm pursuing. Whatever happens, I'll post my experience. Check out this thread. A lot of debate about it. Would love your input. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976753.0 |
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So the big question.
Who is ordering?
Not me. July 2018 estimated delivery is a big bummer 
Exactly . i was thinking to buy 1 , but after knowing 2018 . i will not join that
This is my thought as well, if I could pay for it in SIA coin today that I previously mined, I wouldn't feel the hit if it didn't produce. Since they want to be paid in BTC today with the promise of pay back 1 year from now with now earning or interest gained on the $2500 payout from today is a huge gamble. I think there is less of a gamble on return if you were to buy $2500 of SIA today and wait a year, it could be argued which would make more money by the time the Asic launches. I'm a believer in what SIA does but there is not enough incentive to "pre-order" this thing. I could just GPU mine what I can for 12 months and plan on stopping with the Asic hits and see what happens. I'm still tossing it around in my head right now but the fact I can't pay in SIA coin today is a huge impact to whether or not I will purchase. I already dumped a ton on the Minebox earlier this year and that was only a ~4 month estimated wait.... and I still don't even have that yet or an ETA when it will really ship. You're making a LOT of sense, Eyedol-X and company. I wish you weren't, but you are. BUT alas, I AM going to put in an order come Wednesday, good points notwithstanding. Here's MY thinking, and please feel free to explain how foolish and misguided my thinking is... 1) Both the lead time and hash rate could be consservative estimates. Asic manufacturers got fileted when their release dates were postponed. I think Obelisk learned their lesson from their mistakes and out of fear of people like us, gave themselves some cushion. According to their post, it COULD arrive months sooner. For the same reason, it could be more powerful than 100 Gh/s... although it doesn't really matter exactly HOW powerful the ASICS are. So long as they are the only ASICs on the blockchain, and no GPUs can effectively mine SIA, what really matters is how many ASICS get produced and how long before additional Sia ASICS get are built and shipped. 2) i believe in Sia in the long run. If it manages to shoot up in price after the asics are shipped, then (unlike any other coin) the block rewards would not decrease because all of the asics would already be mining it. In effect, anybody who puchases these first batch of asics would have a monopoly to mine SiaCoin no MATTER how much it shoots up in price. 3) Umbrellas don't make it rain, but every other time an ASIC has been introduced to a coin, it has more than 10Xd afterwards. Any and all profitability psuedo-predictions should consider this potential price increase. Asics do not CAUSE price increases in and of themselves, but I do think they are inddicative of stable infrasture / network and a coin with a future. 4) Even if I DON'T want to mine Sia a year from now, I GOT to think there will be a market for this. Top of the line ASICS are rare, especially when the only people who will own them are people who were willing to buy them with a 12 month lead time. baikal cubes are going for thousands pf dollars. Baikal sold them for 780. The novelty, scarcity and demand for alt coin ASICS may make this a resale play. What do you guys think? Am I way off on this? |
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I have a few Scrypt Zeus Blizzards in working order, and a Zeus Thunder that might need a little attention.
Also have a 5x gpu rig (with GPUs), if you're interested. It's currently dual mining Ethereum and SiaCoin.
I'd sell them for credit towards your 2nd batch Ibelink. Let me know if you're interested.
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It's nice to be nice. Happy to see the power of forums to resolve conflicts... Not to rehash the whole affair, but it seems that this thread is not alone in voicing an anti-ASIC backlash. The backlash was such that David Vorick (from Sia Coin) wrote this blog post on the subject. Enjoy https://blog.sia.tech/choosing-asics-for-sia-b318505b5b51 |
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Oh boy... ohhh boy..Thanks for the info. Can't wait to find out Price, lead time, hash rate so they can shut up and take my money. I was about to purchase another L3+, but now I'm thinking of pre-orderibg this instead for the novelty, diversification... not to mention FOMO appeasement... |
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If this "first ASIC" is built on an older process node like 55nm, it's not going to be a huge cost or risk to whoever designed it.
Keep in mind that the Baikal is 28nm yet sells faster than Baikal can make them right now because it's the best performance option currently available.
The Gridseed GC3355 back in Scrypt days was a 55nm device - yet Gridseed appears to have made a TON of money on them before folks started selling 28nm ASIC (KNC, Innosilicon A2, Alcheminer, among others).
I don't see ASIC having ANY price effect on SIA - they will affect PROFITABILITY but that's not the same thing at all.
There are quite a few coins that have dedicated ASIC - all SHA-256 coins (NOT just Bitcoin), ALL Scrypt coins (Litecoin, Doge, DGB among MANY others), ALL X11 coins (DASH and some more have MULTIPLE ASIC devices available for them - and the Baikal ASIC also does X13/X15/Qubit and 1 or 2 more algos (DGB I know has a qubit option).
Litecoin price did NOT explode when ASIC showed up for it - it was dropping slowly from it's ATH by that point and CONTINUED to drop 'till it eventually got down to around $2 for a long time. (it kicked up into the $3.50-$5 range after the halfing, and STAYED there for about a year, then SegWit adoption got approved and it started jumping).
DASH - price didn't change any more than it's normal variability when ASIC showed up for it, but that's when I dropped GPU mining on X11 as it became totally unPROFITABLE very quickly.
I'm not sure on the timing for Bitcoin vs ASIC, but I'm sure that the price did not change because ASIC showed up for it, ASIC showed up for it because it's price was rising enough to make it a good risk for ASIC makers TO make machines for it.
It could be argued that DOGE died in part due to ASIC - the final nail in the coffin for DOGE was when they decided to make it merge-mineable, it's not been worth more than some small number of Satoshi since.
Thank you so much for youe insight, QuintLeo. Much appreciated...BUT the optimist in me has to disagree ob a few points... 1) With Dash and Litecoin, they more than paid out in the long run, no? Also, I was under the impression that if you're mining a crypto, you kind of WANT it to tank in price so the dificulty goes down and you can stack more of it... then just as your hardware has run its course, you'd want that coin to take off. Seems like (unless you're planning on reinvesting your mined crypto in the short term), Litecoin's post ASIC trajectory is ideal. 2) DogeCoin may have a low price per coin, but still has a pretty large market cap (20th largest, I think). Also Doge actually gets used for SOME goods and services, which is rare for an altcoin. You could buy mining contracts with Genesis using Doge. The one thing Sia has going against it is that it already has a pretty large market cap. it's valued much higher than any other data storage crypto coin (burst, storj etc)... BUT it's valued much lower than dropbox... |
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I think you can add user 33bitcoin and his "shop" 33bitcoin.com to SCAM (at least until he proves opposite) Based on reactions in this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1957897.0Entire thing looks pretty shady Why: he refuse escrow he's not reacting to scam accusation Thanks so much for the heads up, Wusolini. Has anybody else ordered from 33bitcoin? SCAM LIST - QUIT - AVOID FoxMiners.com - I'd like to add FoxMiners to the SCAM list. Supposedly they raised 20 million in presales for their dual mining scrypt / bitcoin ASIC. They were charging $4,500 for their F48, which supposedly mined 75 TH/S BTC and 2.1 GH/s Litecoin. It also farted rainbows and cured minor cuts and abrasions. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1879542.newAs you can tell from the above thread, nobody has yet to receive their revolutionary miners, or if they have, they're being awfully quiet about it. Also, if you look up the Los Gatos address listed on their website... It's a chines restaurant. #Wokchain |
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Found this on another thread. While it may SEEM off topic, just bear with me for a sec. 15 GPU motherboardhttp://cryptomining-blog.com/8807-asrock-h110-pro-btc-with-13-gpus-under-windows-and-linux/Knowing nothing about GPU power consumption, I'm curious if a motherboard that can support this many GPUs would allow for a more power efficient rig, requiring less power per GPU as 3 seperate 5x rigs. If so, would you be able to utilize lower GB gpus that are much cheaper? Am I way off? I'm way off, aren't I? |
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I give up!
I don't have to tell you that GPUs are getting harder and harder to come by.There have even been news stories about their high demand (and subsequent scarcity) all over Europe and Russia especially.
Things are tough all over. When I DO manage to find a decent GPU for sale, it's cost-prohibative.
[side note: I bet you AMD has a few good quarters this year... I mean, can you imagine if it were this hard to buy buy a hard drive or a CPU. Some niche sector catering to extreme gamers is now out of nowhere being over-run by the crypto community.]
When I DO manage to find a decent GPU at a decent price, there are only 1-3 units in stock. The Nividia website caps GPU orders to 2 per model per customer... I suppose you could go through the rigmarole of setting up different accounts etc. but the price makes it not really worth trouble - You'd be better off buying an ETH contract from Genesis.
Another thread recommended these places:
c2000
ingrams micro
MAX Group
TechData
pcpartpicker.com
But they were a bust, at least at the quantity I'm going for.
I'm looking for a GPU wholesaler that has lots of inventory, willing to sell in bulk with SOME kind of discount. Maybe it's a unicorn... but at the same time, where do large retailers buy THEIR GPUs from. I'd wager the demand on these boards would dwarf any 2 best buy locations.
I'd even consider buying straight from a less established GPU manufacturer. There's got to be a GPU company that is not Nividia or AMD who would love our business. Maybe their cards are a less desirable in terms of hashrate, but if the price were right, it's possible you could get a similar bang for your proverbial buck.
Or maybe I'm a dreamer, forced to watch altcoins explode while I watch idle on the sidelines of the blockain.
Thoughts, grievances, comments, suggestions, commiserations?
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I'm sad I wont be able to dual mine Sia with Claymore after they ASICs are released but, if this ends up driving up their market share and increasing the price per coin then that is good in the long run.
At the very least, the announcement of the ASIC miner has generated a lot of attention towards Sia which could potentially bring a lot more miners and users into the system which will be good for it.
I hear ya. I'm trying to dual mine and stack as much Siacoin now in anticipation of the upcoming Asic. I figure since they're just announcing it now, so we may have some lead time to GPU mine some a relatively good amount. If the asics raise the difficulty of the blockchain, then the amount of Sia you can gpu mine BEFORE the asics come on line should still be somewhat significant... especially if the price shoots up down the road. What kind of rig(s) / set up are you currently using? hash rate? Can you recommend any adjustments, pools, gpu models etc thatchave helped? Thanks in advance for any and all input you can give. |
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UNKNOWN
AsicMinerMarket.com - Adding this site to the unknowns... they SEEM very legit, mainly because they sell out a LOT, so if they ARE scammers, they're missing out on a lot of fake sales. Right now, the only miner not sold out is a 3.6 T A6... which would make you about 5 dollars in profit a month, so it makes sense they'd have a surplus... BUT I've never bought from them personally.
I purchased from the guy at asicminermarket, got the goods, very painless fast experience but now he must be suffering not being able to get stock. Thanks for the experience. AsicMinerMarket.com had the feel of a trustworthy retailer, but you never can tell. I'll add them to the Legit column when I assemble the master list with everyone's input. Do you have any experiences with other hardware sellers that you can share? Much appreciated. |
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So what would happen to the initial price of Sia once ASICS are released into the wild both short-term and long-term?
Once things get centralized towards the big miners, I fear that prices are going to tank given the huge influx of coins being released. Yeah things will taper off once difficulty increases but that won't be for awhile. The only public response from Taek on how it effects prices in his response to another Reddit poster seems to be that "inflation" is lower than other coins, which doesn't inspire much confidence. I interpret it as either a "nobody knows" or "it will be fine in the long-run".
Anybody familiar with how prices were like when ASICS were first released on the market with Bitcoin and Litecoin?
Maybe a history lesson would help.
It's a good question... What affect WILL ASICS have to the price of Sia? Of course it's hard to say definitively what will happen to the price of any alt coin; crypto currency is such a new asset class, it's all uncharted territory. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling himself... That being said and at the risk of stating the obvious, there are only THREE (3) coins to currently have devoted ASIC miners: Bitcoin, Dash and Litecoin. All three coins EXPLODED in price after ASICs were added to their blockchain... They continue to rise in price now, even as their 1st and 2nd generation ASICs are updated and replaced with more powerful machines. As the Freakinomics guys would point out, "correlation does not mean causation", and umbrellas don't make it rain. Just because those three coins exploded in price after ASICs were introduced to their blockchain, doesn't (necessarily) mean that asics on a network MAKE the price of a coin go up... (tho they may help). Companies like Baikal, Antminer, Zeus, Pinidea etc. STARTED producing asics for those algo BECAUSE they were winning coins in the first place. The ASICs didn't hurt their price, and it's possible they helped by strengthening the coins infrastructures, heigthening security etc. While the big money players seem to be dominating BTC hash (see Bitfury's Blockbox), I don't think the same can be said for Dash and Litecoin; at least not yet. As for what ASICs mean for Sia coin... well, I think this'll in the very least raise awareness for Sia among people like us... I for one was rather unfamiliar with Sia Coin prior to the announcement... My opinion of Sia, and outlook wfor its future has drastically changed this week. I gotta think I'm not alone.. Asics will also help build out their data storage infrastructure... tho I admit, I'm not really sure how all that works. TLDR : I think these Asics are an indication Sia will soon be valued similar to larger market cap alt coins already thriving in the data storage crypto coin sector. look to those coins for a near term price indication. |
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Like I said on the other thread, price is determinant to build ASICS. This is bad as a whole, ASICS destroy everything.
I don't know if ASICs "destroy everything"... I mean, not if YOU have one (or more) when they're first released. What they DO ruin is GPU mining, so you might want to set your GPU rigs to mine SIA now (by itself or as a dual mine with Ethereum). It's your last chance to stack Sia before the Asics alter the hash rate... .. |
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...but wouldn't that 2000/day payout go down once these machines are added to the Sia network? I think they'll still definitely be worth it, but maybe/probably / definitely not 2000/day worth it... ...unless I'm missing something... It could be very profitable. The SIA algo is very easy to implement onto an ASIC. Speeds could be very similiar to SHA256.
So if they came out with a 1TH/s SIA miner, that would generate about ~$2000/day.
Diff will skyrocket but it will create an asic "movement" which will be a cycle that goes like this Cost 1st gen asic > Asic Mines > Difficulty > Profit > Cost next gen asic > Next Gen Asic Mines > More Difficulty > Profit > Cost... So in a nutshell there will be miners that will buy the asic for a cost, the asic mines on the network, this drives up the difficulty, people with Asics earn profits but the profits begin to dwindle, then comes a new cost of 2nd gen asic, 2nd gen asic hits network and mines, drives up difficulty again, owners of asics make profits... rinse/repeat. In a nutshell this will drive up SIA cost to some degree but time will tell how much because today $1 USD varies but has been hovering around 60SC per $1 USD. If people mine more coins faster and then sell them off for profits, it's going to drive coin value down. However traders will likely buy up SIA ahead of asics in an effort to buy low sell high and it will driive costs up. Over time, if the technology SIA brings to the table really changes cloud storage (I think it will) the value of SIA coin will go up. This is all speculation about whether or not Asics will drive up the price or not, I suspect it will over time but it's unclear how much time it will take, look how long it took LTC to take off and Scrypt Asics have been out for years. As I believe in SIA and have a Minebox coming, I will probably buy this Asic if the price is right. Thanks Eyedol, Do you think you can explain to the thread what is the Minebox? What does it do exactly? Where is the best place to get one. (Please) cure my ignorance... from what I can gather, it's a data storage device that allows you to sell that data storage for Sia? I've already said more than I know... |
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It's been several years ago but I did a bit of business with the guy running GPU Shack. I assume it's the same guy still.
HolyScott is also one of my preferred miner resellers, one of two in the US. He can be unresponsive at times, takes a while to return emails I mean, but like was mentioned - it's one guy running the place. I'm in the same boat so I can't judge. But aside from sometimes slow communication I've never had any trouble with him.
Thanks for your experience Sidehack, You mentioned that you're in the same boat. Can you (please) tell us a little (or a lot) about YOUR store and what you offer? The point of this thread is to bring more business to trustworthy people who deserve it. I'm sure you're very well known in the community, but some posters are newbies (myself included), and don't know any better... |
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Great to know, Benny and Co. Especially now that GPUs are getting harder to come by. Did anybody ever think that GPUs could EVER become hard to come by? AMD might be a good company to invest in since their sales (of a product initially meant for gamers) must be going crazy thanks maniacs like us. BennyAndDeJets, can you give us a few more details about your experience? What have you ordered from them? How long did it take to ship? Etc Thanks a bunch. |
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...but wouldn't that 2000/day payout go down once these machines are added to the Sia network? I think they'll still definitely be worth it, but maybe/probably / definitely not 2000/day worth it... ...unless I'm missing something... It could be very profitable. The SIA algo is very easy to implement onto an ASIC. Speeds could be very similiar to SHA256.
So if they came out with a 1TH/s SIA miner, that would generate about ~$2000/day.
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I don't know if anybody else saw this. but they just announced the very first Asic for SIA, called the Obelisk SC1. http://cryptomining-blog.com/8837-siacoin-sc-to-get-a-dedicated-mining-hardware-asic-device/Sia Coin is primarily used to buy and sell data storage space. To be honest, I had no idea SIA was in any way/ shape / form legit enough to warrant ASIC development for their blockchain. Everything I knew about SIA could be summed up in 2 phrases 1) backed by storage space, and 2) You can dual mine it with Ethereum. PLEASE edumacate me. I want to know everything now that there's an ASIC coming out. What wallet should I use? All I've found thus far is an official desktop wallet, which isn't that bad, but kind of a pain. I tend to think the introduction of this new ASIC should bring about a lot of new interest in SIA. Look at what's happened to Litecoin and Dash since the advent of Scrypt and X11 ASICs that mine them. "Correlation" does not indicate "causation", since ASIC companies choose which coins they think are worth pursuing and blahblahblah LONG STORY SHORT - 1) I think the price of SIA will go up either BECAUSE of these Asics, or because of the reason Obelisk decided to produce the Asic in the first place, or some combination of the two. 2) I. want. this. Asic. I admit, I know very little about SIA, but since I'm bullish on crypto mining, I'm willing to risk the hardware costs just to have the first ASIC that mines SIA. I have to think I am not alone. 3) Until we get more info later in the week, this announcement creates more questions than it answers... Specs, power consumption, hash rate etc. Most importantly: What's the price? Where do you buy it? Who do you buy it from? In the words of Futurama, "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!" If anybody here has any real information... or speculation, rumors, questions of your own, hunches and guesswork, PLEASE post below... Even if you just want to make up disinformation to throw us off the sent, I'm desperate and I need a fix.     |
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UNKNOWN
MINESHOP.EU - This site and it's products look really great. Too good to be true? They have a lot of GPU rigs hashing anywhere between 85-185 mh. A lot of out of stock, u gotta call for prices on certain products... If it's real, would be pretty interesting... I'd pay this kind of premium to avoid the hassle of self-assembly, especially since GPUs have become a little hard to come by.
BUT i have NEVER bought from them. Has anybody had an experience w mineshop.eu ? would REALLY appreciate any feedback, good, bad, ugly or otherwise...
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holybitcoin.com - I think i read some favorable posts on another thread. site seems legit, but they just sell out of everything.
I believe they are the J4bberwock salesperson in the US, so Legit.
Can you ad me as well: bitcoinpsu.com
I hate to overwhelm you with questions; Just trying to compensate for my ignorance. I promise this'll be my last one... for a while.. What exactly is J4bberwock? Do they make power supplies or something? I checked out the Holy Board section on his site, but there are very few details there. |
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