i try to make you analyze your own words. i made statement and i still stand by it. the fact that you *can* call any government USA puppet because you don't like the way it came to power or you don't like it's policies - does not actually make it USA puppet. there are very specific properties of puppet governments and while you can still claim that USA is good in covering it's tracks this borderlines on conspiracy that is so popular with bitcoin-related communities.

so instead of adopting this binary yes/no categorization let's analyze to which extent would you call this or that government a puppet.

let's see: crimean parliament gets captured by what obviously is a special forces operation and new premier minister is elected, effectively a head of state in crimea. and who is that head of state? it's extremely pro-russian politician that had only 4% support of population during last elections. that head of state organizes referendum to join russia without even trying to pretend to want independence.

and you are comparing that to "puppet" governments in iraq and afghanistan? those that have no american heritage and actually organize proper elections? did iraq or afghanistan become USA territory? when did that happen?

as for Abkhazia and Osetia - governments that are mostly russian ex-military created during russian war against georgia. you can google the rest yourself, i bet you're not stupid.

as long as those bases are within NATO territory - why do you care? it is Russia that actively fuels conflicts around it's borders to create buffer zones of instability as a way to prevent countries to join NATO. and countries want to join NATO to defend against Russia exactly because of such actions. a great preventive tactic - so that NATO can't come closer lets start killing thousands of civilians in terrorist/rebel wars all around our borders. think of who you're defending.

do tell me about puppet governments in Afghanistan and Iraq and how they compare to puppet governments of Russia in Abkhazia, Osetia and Crimea. i'm sure you will find many surprising discoveries learning something on the topic.


which few words do you think are missing? maybe you mean "in summer we will have to do cluster bombings of baltic countries and show them 1945 yet again" or do you mean "they should only blame themselves for what we will do to them because russia can't allow NATO close to it's borders" or do you mean "third world war has already started and the result will be decided not by Obama but by Putin and heads of those dwarf states should think what they are doing"?

i love how West is always demonized even though people in general live better lives, have less worries about their future and social security. meanwhile in countries where West is demonized like Russia people are shit that must serve their masters in kremlin, large percentage lives in poverty, education system, healthcare system, municipal system, quality of services and life in general is shit are most importantly nobody is allowed to protest against that.

well, if you call that "track of revival" then have a good journey.

P.S. it's also funny how you aggregate european world into "the West" across last 6 centuries. like it was always one big evil force. learn history mate.

all about legality and territorial defense in Ukraine: http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B9%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8_%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%97_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D0%B8

"§16 of Ukrainian constitution forbids use of army against people" which is why army is not used against people, army is used against separatists because IT IS A DUTY OF ARMY TO BE DEFENDING SOVEREIGNTY AND TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY OF UKRAINE. it's not like somebody said "hey we don't like these people, lets use army to kill them", those people took arms and proclaimed territory of ukraine independent - army and special forces are legally allowed IN EVERY COUNTRY to stop things like that.

"freedom fighters are defending their homes" how does that explain presence of "freedom fighters" coming from russia, osetia, chechnya and even serbia? are they defending their homes in foreign country? if they were actually defending their homes they would just allow journalists to have free access everywhere but so far such free access only has RT and other russian media.

"offered peaceful solution, talks, that was ignored by Kiev" ceasefire was initiated by Kyiv and lasted for 10 days(extended from 7 days). during ceasefire terrorists were firing artillery at ukrainian forces every day. when it became apparent that talks do not lead anywhere ceasefire was halted and russian media went on frenzy about how Kyiv does not want to talk. please inform yourself better next time.

"you are within your human rights to defend it (life)" correct. the point is your life was never threatened before you took up weapons and declared territory independent from ukraine. that is criminal activity and has to be dealt with. and if you know how to use google you'd find how russia deals with such threats to it's sovereignty on example of Grozny - but you'd rather not even look it up right?

"people being taken from their homes, never to be seen again" you're talking about separatists kidnapping people and torturing them (i already linked you story about Rybak) right? show me evidence ukrainian army is doing that and we can discuss it.

"what about forced "conscriptions" on the occupied territories" conscription during national mobilization is normal. if you're avoiding - it is criminal offence. this is normal practice in majority of countries.

"what about filtration" the scary word from russian media propaganda. what about it? where did you see those filtration camps and how many people were filtered already? stop spreading bullshit please..

yes, since end of 90s when Putin started his climb to power and restoration of empire. every tyranny blows up at some point.

USA might blow up too but there is smaller chance of that happening. people in USA are actually enjoying a better country by most standards, economy of USA is huge and military power is unmatched by combined power of next couple countries on the list. those are not signs of "this country will fail any time soon". yes people can hate how USA is getting involved in all kinds of conflicts but do you see USA annexing territories or setting up puppet governments anywhere? difference between USA intervention and Russia intervention is that USA eventually leaves.

Russia on the other hand has practically destroyed it's economy by dutch disease making 70% of budget come from selling oil and gas. Things Russia is producing cannot compete on any market outside of Russia. It is increasingly becoming a police state where you can't even gather to protest against anything. Any opposition is being squashed and opposing media being taken over or closed or banned. And now you have russia fueling terrorism war in eastern part of ukraine, russian weapons are being found in possession of HAMAS and open support of tyrannical regimes like Assad's. I urge you to just go through american billionaires and russian billionaires and compare how did they amassed their fortunes - this is the real difference between USA politics and Russia politics.

more likely the West just considers russia a monkey with grenade and tries to isolate it so that it can't do much damage when it blows up. and it will blow up sooner or later.

you have no clue what EuroMaidan was about. Compared to previous ukrainian corrupt government Obama is Jesus himself.

neo-nazi is a convenient label that you just stick on anyone and attach a whole baggage of associations with hitler and nazis.

the truth is that those volunteer batallions are a legal territorial defense units allowed by ukrainian law. that they are comprised partly of supporters of far-right parties - well it's just a nature of these parties to attract a very special segment of male population. show me evidence that they are *doing* anything that resembles real nazis or shut the fuck up with your putinist propaganda.

no you are wrong and i gave you the actual turnout data. if you are willing to ignore it and continue believe in your lies - you are free to do that.

"the candidate for the East, Oleg Carev got marginalised, criminalised and removed" wrong. he did not get removed, he himself refused to participate. also i don't know how it works in your country but if you do something against the law you are a criminal. Tsaryov was a vocal separatist organizing separatist meeting and things like that. you may like that or not - separatism is a criminal offense in ukraine.

and if you really just look at all possible opinion polls tsaryov wouldnt get much support, so calling him a competitor of current president means you have no clue about politics in ukraine.


again, he was allowed but chose to get out of the race. and what is this bullshit about none of KPU leaders being allowed to participate? just go fucking look at election results.

and you're wrong about turnout too, here's the official data:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/%D0%AF%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%86%D1%96%D0%B2_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%85_%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%85_%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D0%B8_2014_%D0%BF%D0%BE_%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%85.PNG

the only two regions that had around 33% or less turnout were those where separatists didn't allow elections to happen by attacking election posts, kidnapping election officials and threatening violence to those who shows up and votes.

"to save lives, someone needs to take an action" this is great if there actually is any threat to lives of those you pretend to be saving.

"local partisan resistance" only if fueled by russia which we see right now in donbass.

"Sevastopol becoming a NATO base" the usual boogieman of russian tv channels. what evidence do you have for that happening any time soon? ukraine isn't even considering joining NATO (well wasn't considering until Russian invaded and started hybrid terrorism war against Ukraine)

"bloodbath and mass-murders of civilians, as events in Novorossia demonstrate" events in Novorossiya demonstrate that given bunch of russian ex-military/ex-kgb and enough weapons leaking through rebel-controlled border posts it is easy to wreak havoc in whole region. none of this would be happening had russia not sent it's military into region.

"what are the chances of Kiev officially organising and endorsing a referendum" that i don't know and it still doesn't make what russia did any good. invasion and annexation. we will be sorting this out for many years to follow.

"new dispatch of "friendship buses", filled with baseball-wielding thugs, sent to teach Crimeans how to properly love Ukraine would have been a more likely scenario." the usual stories from russian propaganda. do you ever think for yourself?

i'm sure that was an allusion to russian tv channel showing queue at ukraine-poland border post and claiming that was refugees from ukraine to russia at very early stages of conflict

i've updated my previous post because of your edit.

secession of Kosovo started after real ethnical cleansing done by Miloshevich.

"The UN charter stipulating peoples' right for self-determination would disagree with you." speculating on that charter is a sign of dishonesty. charter's idea is to have less conflicts and to allow people to live in peace. secession because of media manipulations or referendums organized by puppet governments established just weeks before - this is not a way to live peacefully.

"grounds for conflict were laid in 1965" reorganization of lands happening in USSR has nothing to do with today's conflict. it's a media trick to make people angry(because it's easy to make them angry) and manipulate them into doing things you like.

think for yourself - every country has a region where local majority does not represent global majority of that country. mongols in china, chechens/igushs/tatars/osetins/etc - most of people in russian republics far away from moscow, crimea is also example, spain - list is huge. do you think it is reasonable to allow all those regions to have secession referendums under same weird ciscumstances - a foreign country invades with it's military? even if without an invasion - if secession means risk of civil war? ask yourself what are reasonable arguments to start secession process without being politically biased.

P.S.

also don't get me wrong - personally i would be happy if crimeans had proper referendum with nicely worded options to either leave things as they are or join russia or be independent. my problem is with how and by whom that referendum was organized - it is nothing short of military invasion and annexation by russia.

"Why did the Communist party had to be banned?" communist party was not banned, communist fraction in parliament was disbanded because fraction can only exist if it has majoritarian representatives there and last one quit some weeks before the decision to disband the fraction.

that being said there are requests to prosecutor office to investigate actions of some politicians in communist party as they were among the most active to support separatist actions which are punishable by law in Ukraine.

"Does the name Jarosh ring a bell" ah yes, the biggest boogie-man in Russia for almost half a year. until election results came in and he had less than 1% of support from population. suddenly Russian tv-channels forgot his name and never mentioned him again. please do explain how is he part of new ukrainian order?

"What about changes to the constitution, reverting it back to the previous version" you mean why did parliament with 340(out of 450) votes brought back constitution of 2004 that was itself voted for by 300+ votes(requirement by ukrainian law) and illegally reverted by Yanukovich by bribing majority of members of ukrainian highest court with purpose of increasing president's power? because the only illegal action here is reverting constitution of 2004 by bribing judges of highest court and that had to be reverted. damn this is so confusing, it's not a surprise you didn't get to the bottom of it

"stripping the already meagre rights for Russian language use." constitution changes have nothing to do with language. there was a law passed in parliament shortly after president was ousted to cancel recent language laws because they were ridiculously stupid. reverting those laws would still not mean stripping any rights from russian language. and in any case that law (to revert the law) was retarded per se and was not supported by president so no language laws were reverted and russian language has same status as it had before changing government. i hope i brought some light into the matter.

"As for sub-humans, I base it on the statements by Farion, Tomishenko, Boutkevitch, Jarosh." Farion is stupid and even people in western ukraine realize that. Jarosh had 0.8% support during presidential elections. Tomishenko, Boutkevitch - i don't even know those guys, how can they be my heroes?

bottom line - there are far-right retards in every country but those in ukraine - russian media had blown them and their influence and their support by population way out of proportion.

"second question was for reinstatement of constitution of 1992" and do you know what that means? constitution of 1992 was another separatist project done by russia in .. well 1992 and this constitution was essentially proclaiming independence of crimean republic and we all know for how long would crimea be independent from russia if that happened.

regarding different opinion polls - i do recognize that it is *possible* that majority of crimeans wanted to join russia, my point though is that willingness alone cannot be a ground for secession as this necessarily drags region into a territorial conflict with deployment of troops and basically a war, because a country has the right to defend it's sovereignty and this fact cannot be disputed. a possible grounds for secession is willingness of host country to initiate such referendum or a serious humanitarian catastrophe like what happened in Kosovo. and even there process of secession took more than 10 years! compare that to a referendum controlled by army of different country organized in one month - do you think that is reasonable?

EDIT:

"no one has the right to impose their views by the means of bullets, artillery shells" - which is exactly what terrorists started doing early into the conflict. people in kyiv were protesting for months, living on main square during winter in tents, tens and hundreds of thousands. people in donbass supposedly had couple protests, then took up arms and said "ok, this is not ukraine anymore" - don't you see the difference?

"cluster and phosphorus bombs" this is fake, nobody was using phosphorus or cluster bombs. believe me, those are some nasty things and you can't just clean up the territory after that - there would be numerous of proofs pictures and videos by now and there are none.

"West failed to condemn the Odessa massacre" this is wrong, all sides have condemned what has happened on that day and asked for proper investigation to be held. Russia on the other hand never condemned actions of terrorists even though those actions include kidnappings and torture - does that mean silent approvement?

you talk about "memory of WWII" and you fail to draw parallels between Hitler uniting the germany and "saving germans from oppression" and Putin doing the same with Russia and russians today. there are many attributes of nazism and Russia matches most of them. but again, claiming someone is nazi is only degrading the discussion and i'd like to avoid that.

"Crimean. voted for independence." Wrong. Putin ordered his army to capture Crimean parliament, parliament "elected" a marginally supported politician(4% on last elections) to be premier minister, premier minister ordered to organize "referendum" in less than month time, a referendum which had 2 questions "join russia now" / "join russia later" and no question "leave things as they are".

"nationalistic coup government" put names to your labels please, both interim government and current government do not have any representatives from far-right parties, parliament is the same as was elected years ago - who exactly are those "nazis" (because you really mean nazis and not nationalists as those are different things) you are talking about?

"They protested again in Odessa, and got burnt down alive" people died in fire after shooting some other people on streets and running away hiding in a building. horrible sutiation no matter what side you're on. there were some horrible people on both sides of a conflict. yet claiming this was a plan of ukrainian government is just an ungrounded conspirological bullshit.

"Apartheid-like changes to constitution" proof of that or admit you have no clue or admit you're here to spread propaganda. i'll give you a link: rada.gov.ua - this is all the laws passed by all the parliaments in ukraine, please find me one that you consider apartheid-like.

"came out in protest, to be met by shooting, so they were forced to take to arms to defend themselves" this is interesting, give me timeline of these events because i do know about protests in most big eastern cities in early days when most news were about annexation of crimea but i didn't hear about protesters being shot. on the other hand there were numerous reports of pro-ukrainian activists kidnapped and later found dead and tortured like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX2zQRGx50I

"according to your heroes" you don't know who my heroes are and anyone claiming someone to be subhuman is wrong, i hope we can get this thing off the table and i won't have to repeat myself

"And Poroshenko is not a corrupt and criminal?" current consensus as was shown by the proper democratic and fair elections (of course in some regions it was not possible to provide safety because terrorists did everything so that people couldnt vote) Poroshenko is less corrupt and less criminal. and really it would be hard to find someone worse than Yanukovich - i hope you're not going to dispute that. personally i didn't vote for him and think there were other "lesser evil" candidates but people of ukraine voted and it is first time in history that one candidate won in every region of ukraine.

"What happened in Ukraine was an oligarchic shift of power" this i can agree with and i don't know why you think it is so bad. the sad thing is there is no way in Ukraine or in Russia someone can come to power without being oligarch or without being backed by oligarchs. that does not mean we should not fight against those who are abusing power beyond any reasonable boundary, don't you agree?

"with a tinge of brown Nazism" and then you had to go full-retard. i urge you to show me evidence that interim or current government of ukraine are supporting nazi ideas and if you can't i ask you to stop repeating this bullshit label because it is not contributing anything to the discussion.

the fact that there are far-right parties in Ukraine does not mean nazism has taken over. far right parties are everywhere including russia and europe and they have much more support from population than in ukraine (1.8% in last elections).

the fact that far-right parties are active in all sorts of protests is also not surprising. however having couple hundred far-right party members and maybe even up to a hundred full-retard nazis with hitler tattoos on their penises - can not discredit a whole movement against abuse of power.

and how do you explain numerous nazis that are fighting for novorossiya? one of leaders Gubarev: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/nazi-donetsk.jpg or this brave rebel: http://proxy10.media.online.ua/uol/r2-fdab3695f0/53bde59defc12.jpg ?

nazism is a really convenient label that you can blame on anyone and degrade discussion to level of "you're nazi - no you're nazi". if your goal is to do that - then just say it?

i'm sorry so many people have been misled with all the russian propaganda.

at this moment all the questions regarding lives of innocent civilians are valid but also usually taken out of context. it was people of Ukraine that gathered to protest against sudden change of course with EU association. people of Ukraine protested against dictatorship laws in january. people of Ukraine ousted corrupt and criminal president Yanukovich. it was Putin that has given corrupt and criminal president Yanukovich asylum. it was Putin that annexed Crimea and Putin that supported and fueled rebels in eastern part of Ukraine. since then things went downhill until today when Ukraine had apparently committed to getting rid of terrorists and terrorists with Russia had committed to do as much damage as possible. now think through this timeline again and pick a point where you think "this was not right".