|
badbitcoin
BM-GtS9nvPR84H3vYjDiHabkkys9g7YBMuD
|
|
|
|
Yeah i think you're right it all starts with setting up the company which can get very creative and juicy. I guess i use the term "IPO" loosely.
yeah, I call it "listing", as there's no legal connotations associated with that, setting up a standard corporation for a bitcoin business isn't all that hard, however dealing with tax will involve a lawyer, I recommend marco santori ( http://nmllplaw.com/marco-a-santori/), he's working with my company on what we're developing and he's a great lawyer. |
|
|
|
Hello is anyone working on some pre ipo's, can we talk about it? What have been been some of the challenges you've faced so far and what are you working on at the moment? Can we check it out, discuss it or have a look? Thanks.
technically every bitcoin "IPO" is violating securities laws, since no bitcoin exchange is federally regulated by any nation. That said, forming the right corporation to make sure you don't step on any legal toes can be pretty in-depth and expensive, if you're just looking on making a rinky dink mining bond or whatnot you may be able to get away without any of this, otherwise I would advise against the naive approach. If your trying to go the legal route then fire me off a pm, me and my partner are knee deep in the legal trenches, we do see a light at the end of the tunnel but its alot of work. |
|
|
|
OK, good luck, I will follow your progress, if there is anything i could help, just PM me. Anyway, I am from Europe, so it is pretty different here and North America is over regulated in my view, but we are following slowly US way  Are you kidding? I've lived in both and Europe is a bureaucratic clusterfuck. agreed, I wouldn't form a corporation in the EU right now, I wouldn't even know where to start. Also todays update is up, not much change from yesterday however we're moving forward day by day, the REIT incorporation fees might be larger than anticipated. |
|
|
|
really interesting stuff. keep us updated.  will do, I plan to update this daily and say whats happening, transparency is our #2 priority, after profit for our investors of course  we're currently in talks with Marco Santori about our REIT options in the USA, the reason we want to form as an REIT is we receive major tax breaks, an REIT that returns 90% of all net income to its shareholders through dividend payments or asset appreciation pays 0% tax, unlike a conventional corporation who would be subject to large corporation tax which could be up to 45% or more. We theoretically could do this as a normal corporation, however the profit margins would be considerably less as all investors will be subjected to double tax, we don't want that  Why do you incorporate offshore company instead all those complicated and too regulated entities? Transparency is fine, but all those REITs and other options look like it is more a barrier to enter the market than anything else Filing as an offshore company could work for a short term investment for us, however we anticipate being in business for the long term, which means that we want to set it up right the first time, an REIT is a registered company which will be doing exactly what we plan to do, just we do it in Bitcoin rather than the conventional fiat investing unitholder. In short: we don't want to play around with things that could work, we want to do it right, the first time, even if it takes a little longer to get the i's dotted and the T's crossed. I understand, I work for a company incorporating offshore IBCs, there is still good option to incorporate UAE /Dubai for example/ company, but still it is probably not what you are looking for. But if REIT would work for bitcoin currency, then it is a big step I'll take a look and pass the idea off to my partner, but yes from what we've been able to see we shouldn't have any serious problems with unit-holders investing via bitcoin, as long as we are below the radar of AML legislation (sub $10k per person, per day), we should in theory not need a ridiculous amount of personal information on our investors. |
|
|
|
really interesting stuff. keep us updated. will do, I plan to update this daily and say whats happening, transparency is our #2 priority, after profit for our investors of course we're currently in talks with Marco Santori about our REIT options in the USA, the reason we want to form as an REIT is we receive major tax breaks, an REIT that returns 90% of all net income to its shareholders through dividend payments or asset appreciation pays 0% tax, unlike a conventional corporation who would be subject to large corporation tax which could be up to 45% or more. We theoretically could do this as a normal corporation, however the profit margins would be considerably less as all investors will be subjected to double tax, we don't want that Why do you incorporate offshore company instead all those complicated and too regulated entities? Transparency is fine, but all those REITs and other options look like it is more a barrier to enter the market than anything else Filing as an offshore company could work for a short term investment for us, however we anticipate being in business for the long term, which means that we want to set it up right the first time, an REIT is a registered company which will be doing exactly what we plan to do, just we do it in Bitcoin rather than the conventional fiat investing unitholder. In short: we don't want to play around with things that could work, we want to do it right, the first time, even if it takes a little longer to get the i's dotted and the T's crossed. |
|
|
|
really interesting stuff. keep us updated. will do, I plan to update this daily and say whats happening, transparency is our #2 priority, after profit for our investors of course we're currently in talks with Marco Santori about our REIT options in the USA, the reason we want to form as an REIT is we receive major tax breaks, an REIT that returns 90% of all net income to its shareholders through dividend payments or asset appreciation pays 0% tax, unlike a conventional corporation who would be subject to large corporation tax which could be up to 45% or more. We theoretically could do this as a normal corporation, however the profit margins would be considerably less as all investors will be subjected to double tax, we don't want that |
|
|
|
I have a thread going that describes the concept of the invention.
<https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252564.0>
Basically, the system will make use of 2 types of currencies where one type is leverage against the other, and claims the value of hosting content.
interesting, it seems your company is doing something similar to what my company is attempting to do, the legal implications are a little tricky though |
|
|
|
interesting, we've recently discovered that we won't be able to form a canadian REIT, however were currently looking into other forms of corporation and US options, I wish there were more lawyers in my city! |
|
|
|
|
it immediately asked me to login/register before I could read anything, do you mind posting it here?
|
|
|
|
When signing with ECDSA you need to include a random number, which makes the signature different.
Okay - so random number rather than timestamp - the point is you *can* embed information then (and if random number then easier probably as perhaps if it was a timestamp it might be checked for range). Of course I assume it is not that big so not much information can be sent with such an approach (yes - too lazy to check the exact details as I don't think it matters very much - if the wish is to send messages then Bitmessage would be a much better option). the size allotted to script section in bytes has a maximum of 10kb ( https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script, scroll down to messages), so in theory you can store a significant amount of text per transaction, that's one thing that satoshi didn't envision and could cause problems if everyone starts using script to store database info, the blockchain bloat will increase in pace. |
|
|
|
On July 1, Nesenoff & Miltenberg LLP (“N&M”) made a decision to give its clients the option to pay legal fees in Bitcoin. The full-service commercial law firm is among a few that offer legal services for businesses in the Bitcoin space.
Led by attorney Marco A. Santori, who also serves as Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation’s Regulatory Affairs Committee, Nesenoff & Miltenberg LLP is uniquely positioned to offer exclusive insight into the complex and evolving legal and regulatory issues surrounding Bitcoin commerce. Santori offered the following comment... Read More: http://btcbible.com/law-firm-accepts-bitcoin/+1 I've communicated with marco yesterday regarding crypto legal problems we've had, a very stand up guy who knows his stuff, if you ever need to lawyer up due to handling crypto money I recommend getting in touch. |
|
|
|
|
we were going to run into this problem sooner or later, script allows for data to be stored in the blockchain, however since there is currently no incentive to hold the blockchain (fees being paid to hold it), eventually we'll run into serious storage problems enhanced by using the blockchain for storage, my companies design is looking at that seriously and we're currently trying to figure out a method that will keep bloat down to a minimum while maintaining a DDOS proof account ledger.
|
|
|
|
Thanks for all the feedback James, I am excited about this opportunity!
no problem, your questions were all valid and it helps point where the communities interest lies and where we should focus on (other than the legal considerations of course) |
|
|
|
Is there any more detailed business plan?
it's being constructed currently with our law team, the listing will be completed in at most two weeks, we're trying to make sure that we don't say anything that is not a legal direction, as it could return and bite us down the road. |
|
|
|
Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it.
Are there any legal issues with non-Canadians owning "units"?
What is your definition of a "unit", something akin to a share? as in a share of stock?
Do you have a minimum or maximum investment
Do you have a minimum or maximum investment holding period? i.e. can we day trade the shares? (not that I would but the question came to me, so I thought I would ask for others that may have had the same thought)
How will you handle legal issues in regards to landlord issues that will come up?
Will you allow sub-leases?
If we own "units" can we get a discount on lodging if we want to visit Canada for vacation?
If we own "units" and that land is huntable (can be hunted on)? can we get a discount on hunting or fishing trips? I hear northern Canada has some great hunting and fishing, Salmon, Elk, Deer, etc.
Do "unit" holders get votes on what and where and when will be purchased next?
1) Foreign investment in Canadian securities has never historically required any special actions on the part of the funds or the investors, so there are no foreseeable issues. We will confirm that with to our legal team. 2) A unit is similar to a share except units dont suffer dilution when new units are sold at the net asset value per unit (NAV) 3) Yes and No. We dont have a holding time on trades between investors (except for local tax reasons), however the unit isnt readily retractable from us as it is tied into real estate assets. Canadian AML laws require deposits larger than $10,000 CAD or totalling that in 24hrs to be declared. We don't impose a holding time.. however you may want to for tax reasons. 4) We will manage the assets internally to reduce operating expenses and we are legally equivalent to a landlord. Tenant disputes do happen, but are generally avoidable with good management practices. 5) Allowing sublets are up to the unitholders. In my experience as a property manager, some owners have an issue with it, some don't; I personally have never seen any problems with sublets on year leases. 6) As the properties are owned by more than one investor, that is something that can be voted on. If unitholders decide a to diversify the portfolio into hotels that is most likely do-able. 7) Well there are many great opportunities in Canada to hunt, duck hunting on Great Slave Lake, Muskie fishing in northern Manitoba, salmon fishing on the Pacific cost; hunting inside city limits is generally illegal, and viable income properties in rural regions are hard to find.  Unitholder's definitelyget to vote on the what, where and when of purchase decisions. We will provide our picks, and anaylsis on potential purchases but are open to suggestions from unitholders. I'll be putting your questions in the FAQ if you don't mind, they are good! 4) Interestingly, we don't need an exchange to start with, we are developing multi-sig support for trading bitcoins for investment "units", this allows for completely p2p trading of shares without directly needing our involvement, all information regarding who owns what will be automatically uploaded in ledger format to the bitcoin blockchain for all to see.
How will this work? Are you somehow using Open Transactions to pull this off? Definitely want to hear more about this. We are developing a multi-sig transaction system, this system involves a digital form of ownership called a "certificate". This certificate is script code that is machine readable (.json format), and is ECDSA signed using both the seller and buyers bitcoin address. This file is then traded using a bitcoin/certificate multi-sig transaction program that will be built ontop of the bitcoin client, the certificate is then automatically uploaded to the blockchain as the transaction is completed. This technology is still "in the works" as we are actively looking for a developer to assist us with producing this technology, however if complications arise we may pivot into a trading structure that can be more easily stored and accounted for. |
|
|
|
Can you share more details about the REIT?
Can you share your business proposal?
What kind of funding do you have or are you capable of raising or have access to?
Where will you be purchasing?
Will you be only purchasing in canada? Will you only be purchasing in locations that you are physically near?
What will you be purchasing?
houses, condos, commercial, land, etc., etc.
Will you be renting, leasing or selling these properties or a combination of all 3?
Will the REIT be publicly traded and listed on an exchange? BitFunder, BTCT.CO, TSE(Candian Stock Exchange), CNSX etc, etc.
1) We are capable of funding the deposit, the incorporation fees, legal fees and the hiring of an accountant, however paying the down payment and the like would require us to delve into purchasing credit. 2) Initally we will be purchasing commercial rental properties as they are what we know and will be purchasing locally to us (Nova Scotia, Canada). 3) We will be primarily purchasing, renting, rennovating, and selling, the unitholder of each investment has the right to vote on what happens to their investments, you decide when to sell, we provide monthly reports on exactly how the current real estate environment is doing and what it means for your investment. 4) Interestingly, we don't need an exchange to start with, we are developing multi-sig support for trading bitcoins for investment "units", this allows for completely p2p trading of shares without directly needing our involvement, all information regarding who owns what will be automatically uploaded in ledger format to the bitcoin blockchain for all to see. I'm interested to see how number 4, works out. With the degree of control you propose giving to investors, listing on an exchange wouldn't be feasible anyway - as the individual investments are not likely to have a common fungible unit. exactly, off the record we are currently planning on turning each property into ~1000 individual ownership "units", these units represent a portion of the mortgage, and can independently control their own capital appreciation vs. dividend payment rates. |
|
|
|
The idea sounds interesting
we're currently going through the legal hurdles to fully comply with local regulatory agencies, we should be completely ready for investors by august  I posted a couple of questions on the description thread. replied sir, I'll be around for the next few hours answering questions |
|
|
|
Can you share more details about the REIT?
Can you share your business proposal?
What kind of funding do you have or are you capable of raising or have access to?
Where will you be purchasing?
Will you be only purchasing in canada? Will you only be purchasing in locations that you are physically near?
What will you be purchasing?
houses, condos, commercial, land, etc., etc.
Will you be renting, leasing or selling these properties or a combination of all 3?
Will the REIT be publicly traded and listed on an exchange? BitFunder, BTCT.CO, TSE(Candian Stock Exchange), CNSX etc, etc.
1) We are capable of funding the deposit, the incorporation fees, legal fees and the hiring of an accountant, however paying the down payment and the like would require us to delve into purchasing credit. 2) 2) Initially investsments will be in multi-unit residential properties (apartments) local to us. That best utilizes our experience and contacts. In the long term we dont see expansion into other locales and types of income properties to be an obstacle 3) We will be primarily purchasing, renting, rennovating, and selling, the unitholder of each investment has the right to vote on what happens to their investments, you decide when to sell, we provide monthly reports on exactly how the current real estate environment is doing and what it means for your investment. 4) Interestingly, we don't need an exchange to start with, we are developing multi-sig support for trading bitcoins for investment "units", this allows for completely p2p trading of shares without directly needing our involvement, all information regarding who owns what will be automatically uploaded in ledger format to the bitcoin blockchain for all to see. |
|
|
|
The idea sounds interesting
we're currently going through the legal hurdles to fully comply with local regulatory agencies, we should be completely ready for investors by august |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
