Just a note - cannot seem to get the 792 firmware to work. Has anyone else reported issues? After flashing, it says it is OK but under No processors where it should say [ 2 ] it shows [ 0 ]. Tried this on 2 singles and have re-downloaded the file - same result. Would be nice to have this as 2 units won't run 800 reliably and having to drop to 768, well, is no fun  I have had the same result, after flashing with the 792 firmware, units do not work. Haven't contacted BFL yet, but wanted to confirm your result. All rev2 singles. No problems with 768, 800, 808, 816, 824, 832. Extremely poor performance with 864, 872. Haven't tried 880, 896, since I didn't think there would be any point. @BFL-Engineer - see above. The 792 f/w needs to be re-examined. Will investigate. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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Just for the record, Im not entirely pulling numbers out of my arse. I cant tell you everything I know, but I can tell you what google will tell you if you search for SHA256 performance comparisons between 65nm FPGAs and 130nm ASICs, like this paper here: http://eprint.iacr.org/2010/536.pdfOf course, no one said BFL will use 130nm, they might have picked 90nm or who knows, perhaps even 65nm, in which case you could be looking at closer to 5TH per wafer. But even if they went for 180nm or Im wrong by an order or magnitude, the basic premises remains the same: the variable cost per TH is several orders of magnitude lower than the current market price, and if BFL rides the price / difficulty curve from the current top to the eventual bottom, as a miner you will have a serious problem keeping up. It is true. P4man and me are both scared that BFL will corner the mining market ...  I almost had a stroke when I read this thread yesterday. Looking at BFL's past history it looks like they will deliver, unfortunately for all of us running GPUs and FPGAs now. ( not Singles ) Bowing down to the BFL mining overlords ... all this can be stopped by a community effort and mining can be decentralized again. NDA ASIC = not good plan for us and Bitcoin in general. What's stopping BFL having a ride with the blockchain and 51% ? NOTHING. This needs to be fixed. Algo change is in order IMHO. I wish BFL all success in the world but I don't like where this is going for BTC  In fact, ASIC is the only thing that can prevent 51% attack. Why? Today there are banks, financial institutions, intelligence organizations that have super-computers, consisting of thousand and thousands of CPUs or GPUs. These grids are used to run financial analysis, mostly Monte-Carlo. Imagine "Societe General" in France for example. They have a GPU array of 15,000. If for financial interests or certain other reasons, they decided to switch to BitCoin for a week. This grid alone can give them over 15TH in processing power... this will not be 51% attack, it will be 120% attack. This is just one bank, activating only one of its grids. As long as the algorithm used in BitCoin can be effectively implemented in CPU or GPUs, network will always be under threat. Scrypt won't be good either, since many institutions have grids of several thousand CPUs. The only thing that can stop it is the ASIC. Imagine tomorrow the processing power of the BitCoin network is 2,000TH. This is something super-computers cannot attack, simply because their combined processing power cannot reach even 10% of it, let alone 51% attack.... Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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Not sure why it would matter, as long as they got their box back.
Not sure either, I'm just going off this quote from BFL, which makes it sound like only singles purchased from BFL would be covered. The trade-in program involves return of a single, a mini-rig or mini-rig cards purchased from Butterfly Labs.
The date of purchase does not really matter, the credit is given to the customer as soon as the unit
reachs our office.
Straight off the BFL SC FAQ on the website: "Upon release of BitForce SC based Singles & Mini Rigs, all previous generation BitForce products will enjoy a full 100% trade in value when used towards the purchase of the newer generation replacements. This means your current device is protected from depreciation through this evolution in technology. This buy back offer is good for all previous generation BitForce units whether purchased directly from us or from a third party."So to answer your question, yes, they will accept anything whether purchased from BFL directly or not. Didn't someone send a broken BFL Single to the maker of Lancelot to hack? .... ooops If anyone receives a broken single, they would definitely send it back to us for replacement. I don't think 600$ of investment is something people would easily overlook... Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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I heard of the firm wares up to 890 something, but could someone
add cooling to these devices and overclock them further to like 1000 Mhash? already saw that, but it doesn't go to that high. We will release faster firmwares in a short while. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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So, when I was away for vacation my miner's power supply just up-and-died.
When I got home, I check to make sure it wasn't anything else and it was all good.
How would I be able to tell if it's dead or just something minor is wrong?
--The back of the adapter--
---------------------------
Replacement AC Adapter
Model: ST-C-120-12001000CT
Input: 100-240V-2.5A 50/60Hz
Output: 12V |: 10A
---------------------------
I'm probably going to head to my local nerd-shack to buy a new one, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't something that maybe I did?
If possible, you can use a cheap computer PSU (Yellow Wires goes to the core of the jack, black wire goes to the surroundnig metal). This PSU can be used to power many singles, so the cost per single will not be significant. Other than that, you can simply purchase another PSU which outputs 12V and has support for minimum 8A. It must be a high-quality PSU to avoid any future problems (our maximum voltage rating is 16V, if it goes beyond that then the capacitors on-board may die). Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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I am a happy BFL customer.
2 questions:
1) Where can I sign an NDA to get more information?
2) Can I order yet?
For NDA you need to contact office@butterflylabs.com. For the order part, well if you already own any singles or have any mini-rigs in order, you already have the credit for trade-in. Please stand by for official announcement for ordering... Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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Can you give us any indication of price? >$5,000? >$25,000?
Can't give you any exact numbers yet. But for a certain model, both numbers are too big, and for another, probably both are still big... we have to decide, but it won't be unaffordable... Regards, BF Labs Inc |
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I wonder if BFL will set a limit on how many AISC's you can buy per month per customer so that no one can just buy up all the production and gain 51% hashing power.
We are very aware of the 51% issue and will be Extremely careful in this regard. Regards, BF Labs inc. |
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Assuming the SC is 500Ghs,
Its not going to be 500GH per chip. Although it will depend upon the process they picked and how big they chose to make their chip to optimize yields vs packaging costs, I would guess it will be closer to 10-20GH per chip. Of course they can put an arbitrary number of chips in a box, making speculating about GH rates useless. What really matters is $/GH. (W/GH will be fantastic anyway). Now if BFL really manage to be the first to have an ASIC on the market, they can basically price it at whatever they want. Even if they price it similarly to FGPA solutions per GH, people will want it because of the low power. But chip production costs will be completely trivial compared to FPGAs, probably in the single digit $ per GH range; so they just have to price it so they maximize their overall revenue to pay down the NRE. It will be very interesting to see that unfold; to maximize revenue the sensible thing for them to do is start with very high prices, comparable or even well above FPGA prices, and then just keep dropping them, not unlike for instance Intel would do with their CPUs, launching at $1000 and selling basically the same chip for $15 a few years later. So Im guessing the price per GH they launch it at, could be cut by one or two orders of magnitude over time. How fast will depend if any competitors surface. That makes investing in these .. interesting. Assuming they do start with high per GH prices (which I would do), your chances of breaking even on your investment will depend almost entirely on BFLs future pricing strategy. If they drop per GH prices by a factor 10x 6 months later, you are probably shafted. So I wonder if BFL will provide early customers some sort of guarantee? This is not how we have envisioned our production. The strategy you have mentioned is effectively against the favor of early customers and in favor of late customers. Our strategy has always been in favor of our early customers. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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I was thinking about their buy back program:
Assuming the SC is 500Ghs, then a test burn in during one week period would bring in atleast around $10k at current rates (even after electricity is paid for), now because the buyer has already prepaid for the system, they get it for free.
So that money can then be used to subsidize the buy back program, meaning they are only paying a fraction for it.
The real question, is there a time limit to how long after the purchase of you FPGA you can return it for a full refund to fund the SC purchase ?
Regarding Mining, we are not really looking into it. We would've already built our own mining farm if it was our intention. Our purpose is delivering equipment. The myth about mining to earn money can be said about any OEM. Our test procedure includes running predefined data and expecting predefined results for extended period of time, and testing the unit with community-used software just to make sure no incompatibility exists. The trade-in program involves return of a single, a mini-rig or mini-rig cards purchased from Butterfly Labs. The date of purchase does not really matter, the credit is given to the customer as soon as the unit reachs our office. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time. A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product. The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  My point is that at those prices or even at a much lower price (say $100K) 99% of the buyers of a single will not be able to trade it in, as they won't have the funds or the commitment to put down that kind of extra money. I actually don't see the trade in as a much added value, other than people can perhaps pool their singles, buy 1 ASIC and share the hashing power.... It will be nice for Gigavps, he can probably exchange all his singles, his mini-rigs before they ship, get an ASIC and some money back  All I can say at this point is that our units will have different models and will be affordable for general public. 100K$ is not affordable for general public, and is not a good price reference. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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It's easy to speculate on the price/performance.
Their Mini-Rig is around 30 times faster than the Single, so the SC should be atleast 20 faster than Mini-Rig, putting it at around 500GHs.
Their pricing is based on atleast 250 days of mining to break even at current rates, which means around $250'000 ~ $300'000 for that sort of power.
That sort of pricing makes it easy to see why they can afford to buy back at $100%.
And at 500Ghs per system it really is End Game.
So I predict: 500GHs/$275 000
The price you've mentioned is way too high... Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging. I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before. I look forward to hearing more.
Soft launches to make you HARD <grins> Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output. kind regards Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future. It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives... Regards, BF Labs Inc. BTW, I hope your new gear is geared to only start fans when needed for small scale installations. I'd like to see more silent gear. A great care was taken and the units are planned to be very silent. It is another important feature of very low power consumption. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging. I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before. I look forward to hearing more.
Soft launches to make you HARD <grins> Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output. kind regards Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future. It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives... Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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Where the thermo sensor is located? Why one single starts throttling at 60C, and another at 50C in the same ambient conditions? Is it possible one of sensors gives wrong temperature readout?
Each board has it's own personality, and the sensor is provided as a point of reference for that specific board. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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So I think I've discovered the source of the unknown error.  Don't think it should be reporting 4 processors.... The other 3 are now performing well. Apparently one must flash and power cycle repeatedly to get some of them working. There is also a chance of FTDI driver issue on the version of the windows you're using. Only a single reflash should get the job done. You can contact office@butterflylabs.com regarding the one suspicious unit. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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So i can't get easyminer to work because the mining options are greyed out. Ufasoft runs for a split second and disappears. I cant seem to get Cgminer to detect the fpgas.
Can someone please post a working cgminer config script? I can add the com port and the pool in the text, i just can't figure the overall scan and enable portion of the config file.
Thanks
You can use BitMinter; It's known for its simple yet advanced GUI and ease-of-use. Regards, BF Labs Inc. I've tried that too. The java window just pops up and disappears. Installed java. Now it works, except that one of my singles doesn't have a temp, reports 3.3gh and constantly produces errors and no accepted shares. If you can identify which unit it is, you can try a 768MH/s firmware and see how it works (this is just for test). If the behaviour didn't change, then probably the unit was damaged during shipment. Regards, BF Labs Inc. Now only 1 works correctly. The rest have been flashed with 768 and have various errors.  It also looks like that the 3 units have not received the firmware completely (due to power interruption, connection error, etc). Could you try and reflash one of them, power-cycle the unit and then run a test? Please let us know how it goes... Regards, BF Labs Inc. I reflashed them all with 832, unplugged them for 1 minute and the did another diagnostic. This is the result:  Ok so two of the units are ok now. Could you flash the other two units to for instance 792MH/s or 808MH/s, then power-cycle them and run diagnostics? (Before doing so, you must close Easyminer application after firmware upload). Please let us know. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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So i can't get easyminer to work because the mining options are greyed out. Ufasoft runs for a split second and disappears. I cant seem to get Cgminer to detect the fpgas.
Can someone please post a working cgminer config script? I can add the com port and the pool in the text, i just can't figure the overall scan and enable portion of the config file.
Thanks
You can use BitMinter; It's known for its simple yet advanced GUI and ease-of-use. Regards, BF Labs Inc. I've tried that too. The java window just pops up and disappears. Installed java. Now it works, except that one of my singles doesn't have a temp, reports 3.3gh and constantly produces errors and no accepted shares. If you can identify which unit it is, you can try a 768MH/s firmware and see how it works (this is just for test). If the behaviour didn't change, then probably the unit was damaged during shipment. Regards, BF Labs Inc. Now only 1 works correctly. The rest have been flashed with 768 and have various errors. It also looks like that the 3 units have not received the firmware completely (due to power interruption, connection error, etc). Could you try and reflash one of them, power-cycle the unit and then run a test? Please let us know how it goes... Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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So i can't get easyminer to work because the mining options are greyed out. Ufasoft runs for a split second and disappears. I cant seem to get Cgminer to detect the fpgas.
Can someone please post a working cgminer config script? I can add the com port and the pool in the text, i just can't figure the overall scan and enable portion of the config file.
Thanks
You can use BitMinter; It's known for its simple yet advanced GUI and ease-of-use. Regards, BF Labs Inc. I've tried that too. The java window just pops up and disappears. Installed java. Now it works, except that one of my singles doesn't have a temp, reports 3.3gh and constantly produces errors and no accepted shares. If you can identify which unit it is, you can try a 768MH/s firmware and see how it works (this is just for test). If the behaviour didn't change, then probably the unit was damaged during shipment. Regards, BF Labs Inc. Now only 1 works correctly. The rest have been flashed with 768 and have various errors. This is very strange. Could you please send an email to office@butterflylabs.com describing the situation. I will inform the sales as well. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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So i can't get easyminer to work because the mining options are greyed out. Ufasoft runs for a split second and disappears. I cant seem to get Cgminer to detect the fpgas.
Can someone please post a working cgminer config script? I can add the com port and the pool in the text, i just can't figure the overall scan and enable portion of the config file.
Thanks
You can use BitMinter; It's known for its simple yet advanced GUI and ease-of-use. Regards, BF Labs Inc. I've tried that too. The java window just pops up and disappears. Installed java. Now it works, except that one of my singles doesn't have a temp, reports 3.3gh and constantly produces errors and no accepted shares. If you can identify which unit it is, you can try a 768MH/s firmware and see how it works (this is just for test). If the behaviour didn't change, then probably the unit was damaged during shipment. Regards, BF Labs Inc. |
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