I thought that was exactly what lightbox was doing.

Lightbox, what is your affiliation with Havelock?

Depends on the value of that 20%!

I remember! That was very exciting, hope that whale comes back...

I'm not against getting more information: balance sheet, specifics about the supporting bank, etc.

But I also think that tallying assets and liabilities would be the wrong way to establish the value of this company.

For instance, the value of the computers that Google owns is probably not a very good measure of the value of Google. The value of Bloomberg is not determined by the number of cubicles they have, and the value of Samsung is not determined by how many chip fabs they have. Their values are (largely) determined by their expected future profit.

The service this company intends to provide is high in demand. And, in my humble opinion, this company has the ability to deliver. So I would much rather be interested to see a more elaborate discussion about the growth potential of this company and their ability to achieve it. That should make it easier to derive a reasonable price for the shares, than from a balance sheet and individual notions of "fair distribution of risk/rewards".

The value of a company is often higher than the sum of their assets!

I'm assuming the backing bank offers access to legal/financial expertise, software, banking infrastructure, and puts up whatever guarantee is necessary to get their operating license.

If they are providing the guarantee (as I have the impression they are) then they are indeed putting capital at risk too.

Anyway, I'd also like to see an official explanation!

I assumed it was part of the statement: "Full Company and Personal Credentials have been provided to Havelock Investments" that Havelock has confirmed the affiliation with the bank in question...

I stand corrected: you are right, there is no sales tax on commission for "financial services".

I admire your valiant attitude, and your courage. Norway is a particularly difficult jurisdiction for this kind of activity, and taking into account the small potential customer-base (albeit larger now that you accept foreign customers) I imagine you are, to a large degree, ideologically motivated.


There is no doubt that the commission is subject to sales tax. And even if you are not selling bitcoins, you may still be held responsible to a certain degree.

I think Norwegian legislation is a bit of a double-edged sword for bitcoin. Either it will be considered a currency/financial product and sales tax does not apply, but in that case all the legislation that regulates financial products applies to it. Or it will be considered a regular product, in which case sales tax must be applied, but a whole lot of other onerous legislation does not apply.

I hope you issue an update when there is more clarity around the question.

Best of luck!

Thanks for answering, I'm very happy you're upfront with addressing concerns from fellow (more paranoid) bitcoiners.

Last question, I promise: are bitcoins liable for sales tax in Norway?

Most things are liable for sales tax in Norway, even gold (e.g. smuggling gold into Norway is big business - the street-price of gold is 25% above everywhere else). Are bitcoins exempt, and do you have any definite official confirmation stating so or do you have good lawyers advising you that it is exempt (with a reference to a specific law/paragraph that obviously applies)?

If you are uncertain, you are running an extremely large risk which could end in large losses for your customers and personal bankruptcy for the proprietors (not to mention criminal charges). Getting in trouble with the tax authorities in Norway is extremely serious...

I might be overly paranoid (and, handling other people's money, you might want to be too), but I'm not entirely sold on the security of brainwallets in the first place. And even though your phone is offline in the exact moment you type the password, you are still typing your password on a device that regularly connects to the internet, and is used for other things in other contexts. If your phone indeed was compromised and frequently connects to the internet, typing the password while standing in a vault with no connection would only offer a modicum of additional security.

I think Armory has some interesting use-cases involving offline signing of transactions, I would suggest taking a closer look at it. Also, you might want to consider a Trezor (http://www.bitcointrezor.com/).

From the post on Reddit, I also got the impression that both partners needed to add some knowledge (simultaneously) to the password to make it correct. What happens if (heaven forbid!) one or both of you suffers any kind of accident?

Why use passwords instead of just the private key? I mean, there is much more entropy in the private key than in most (even superstrong!) passwords! Also, a password often contains certain mnemonic devices - meaning you might in fact remember it (i.e. not rubber-hose proof), and also decreasing entropy further.

Further, please describe a little more closely how you transfer from your cold wallet to your hot wallet. If you, at some point, are required to type your password into an internet-connected computer, it's all futile.

I apologise for being rude - I realise these things are difficult - but these "security precautions" you have described sound more like "security theater" to me.

Doesn't matter which specific week the "hi divz" come - ASICMINER has taken (or is currently taking) delivery of 262 TH/s worth of equipment. It will be deployed or sold - revenue will be used to grow the company, and profits will be paid to shareholders.

The rest is details compared to this big picture!

Thanks for the reply, I take it you have a few customers waiting to sign up as soon as your doors open.

Another question, if I may: does the agreement allow future dilution of these shares? If so, to what degree and what are the investors' rights in this respect?

CF,

Have you already discussed your planned "MO" with some potential (corporate) clients? How have they reacted?

Bitfair

Edit: And also, how does your offer compare to the Fidor+bitcoin.de or Aqoba+Paymium partnerships?

Thanks! Has there been any official confirmation? The "announcement" was made by someone other than FC, and in Chinese, as far as I can remember.

To be fair, when FC mentioned 1000TH/s it wasn't clear he was talking about network hash rate or AM hash rate.

I don't quite follow. Why would someone be worried about the SEC?

WTG!

First of all, and with all due respect, I think the existing set of "bitcoin companies" is not a good base for comparison: most "bitcoin companies" that solicit investments are fairly dodgy and amateurish, mostly some people looking to finance their mining gear. The returns on some shady basement-dwellers mining-farm better be unbelievably good, because the risks are definitely astronomical. This venture, however, appears very professional and experienced, and has sunk plenty of their own resources into the company.

I'm not saying that automatically makes it a good investment, but I would be more inclined to compare it to companies like Bitpay, Coinsetter, Paymium, etc. than with Kenilworth. These startup companies also offered a "bad ROI".

Second of all, depending on how you choose to calculate "ROI", it may be the wrong measure for evaluating a startup company. Look a few years ahead: if they are successful in doing what they intend to do, how much would the company be worth? In a few years time, they might be responsible for a substantial portion of the bitcoin-related money-transfers in and out of exchanges for a worldwide audience. What would such a company be worth? In my humble opinion, it would surely be worth more than $15 million for sure!

So if you believe in bitcoin, believe in the product, and believe in the team delivering it, then you shouldn't be afraid that you will lose money on it. At the same time, the service - if successful - will help the entire ecosystem grow.

This offering is very different from Joe's 100TH/s basement mining farm that is offering "better ROI".

I'm not aware of any infrastructure problems right now, and, as far as I know, AM is currently in the process of deploying and selling around 200TH/s of hashing power. I see no reason why anyone would want to "jump ship" other than to let you scoop up cheap shares.

Please elaborate a little on your argument, if'n you please!