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Yes, 3k for masternode is not a part of incoming fork, there was no proposal for it, we can't vote for it, it's just simulation for future.
How to efficiently lock masternode? For instance by creating kinda MN-PoS hybrid system, although hybrids are cool as long as they don't bring extra security problems that I see here. But I am open for suggestions.
I have been already talking about it, to soft-lock masternode we can increase required number of confirmation from 15 (~16 minutes) to higher value. If masternode operator will have to wait for few hours (or days) for it, (s)he will not cash it out two days later.
Other way would be increasing coin maturity time what would make masternode operator wait longer for profit and this way dumping profits would be naturally delayed. However, it would also affect PoS-minted coins.
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It's always about speculation! Investors should be attracted when services will start because they believe IT WILL bump the price or because they believe others will follow such beliving. Not because services affect market price automatically.
That's why marketing and product development are different things. Sure they have same origin (product), they play in same team and they can't achieve success without each other. But their activities need to be run in parallel, otherwise either finished product will be useless since noone will wait for it as people will go elsewhere, or product will be never accepted because of too aggressive marketing, slow development and unmet expectations. Everything has to be balanced, each part should support other one without pointless looking and saying I am waiting for you. Many well-promising coins were fcked up this way. Many are going down. Good, fresh examples of still alive but ATL priced are AERO and BURST. First with great ideas, enormous expectations and lack of working product. Second, absolutely innovative technology and proven devs proficiency and lack of marketing.
3K is just an example, it's not even available in voting. Point to discuss for next-next hardfork.
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Talking about "making investors happy" and ROI in 30 days is actually talking about ponzi scheme. You do not need to attract "investors" with fantastic ROI numbers since these numbers without real value behind coin will lead to dumping coins at the newcomers.
ROI in 30 days is false since number of masternodes grows everyday. Everyone knows it, no matter if it's BTC minning or running masternode. It's just a matter of something looking better than other offers on the market. Also I believe that PROFIT is much better for both sides here. You can tweak ROI without touching PROFIT. Finally, one of current problems is lack of cheap coins on the market. With most popular masternode price proposal (888) 4 new investors each buying one masternode would make price skyrocket (+400%). How you wanna convince them to invest without nice numbers? This is part of marketing! More investors means we are more popular since people spread the word. If someone will dump his masternodes quickly... GREAT! Cheap coins! Most of my coins I bought with average price over 100K satoshis. Many investors here would be happy to see epic big dumps as they will let us reduce average buy price. Lower average buy means you are not nervous on the market, you make better decisions. Finally you can focus on coin development / promotion since you know this-day-price is no longer matters. Long term coin value is tech/market innovation/adoption and marketing. We can't build first one within two weeks. But we can start marketing now. |
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Think how it look from newcomer side. Hey, they minted so many coins with 30-days ROI, now they change rules so my ROI is 90-days. Making both early adopters and new investors happy is very difficult task. One would say, hey, look at bitcoin, early adopters are always preferred. But let's face the truth, without new investors, early adopters' goods are worth nothing. Also for all those who have coins now and do not run masternode I always advise to get your coins away from exchange, move them to wallet and start staking or run masternode. If you don't know how to run masternode or you do not have resources for it find someone without coins but with know-how and resources to make co-op. No, I don't have perfect solution nor I think it exists. Just keep in mind that there are always two sides of the same coin.
IDEA: HOW TO GET ROI LATER (NO CASHOUT WITHIN 30 DAYS) WITH KEEPING MASTERNODE PROFITABLE (BUY PRESSURE)?
MASTERNODE COST: 1000 8BIT, ROI 30 DAYS
MASTERNODE COST: 3000 8BIT, ROI 90 DAYS
AS SIMPLE AS THAT
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For those who wonder how voting proposals will affect coin economy, masternodes profitability and network: +---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
| ? |MN COST| BLK VAL | MN RWRD | MN # | BTC INVEST. | 8BIT DAILY | BTC DAILY | ROI | INFLATION |
+---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
| - | 112 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 312 | 0.02912000 | 3.80769231| 0.00099000| 29d | + 0.00 % |
| A | 888 | 1.0000 | 0.8000 | 39 | 0.23088000 | 27.44505495| 0.00713571| 32d | - 16.67 % |
| B | 888 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 39 | 0.23088000 | 30.18956044| 0.00784929| 29d | + 0.00 % |
| C | 888 | 0.8000 | 0.6000 | 39 | 0.23088000 | 20.58379121| 0.00535179| 43d | - 33.33 % |
| D | 1024 | 1.0000 | 0.8000 | 34 | 0.26624000 | 31.64835165| 0.00822857| 32d | - 16.67 % |
| E | 512 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 68 | 0.13312000 | 17.40659341| 0.00452571| 29d | + 0.00 % |
| F | 888 | 1.2080 | 0.8880 | 39 | 0.23088000 | 30.46401099| 0.00792064| 29d | + 0.66 % |
| G | 1000 | 1.0000 | 0.1000 | 34 | 0.26000000 | 3.86332418| 0.00100446| 258d | - 16.67 % |
| H | 888 | 0.8880 | 0.4840 | 39 | 0.23088000 | 16.60425824| 0.00431711| 53d | - 26.00 % |
+---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
As you can see things get complicated. First of all number of masternodes will be reduced 10 times. At this moment we jumped over CRAVE, after fork we will land far far away. How those values look compared to CRAVE anyway? Masternode cost 5000 CRAVE
BTC INVESTMENT 0.40337
Masternodes # 221
Estimated CRAVE per day 2.82269082269082
Estimated BTC per day 0.00211701811701812
ROI 177d
So, according to average proposal, their masternode is two times more expensive and you have to wait for ROI five times longer. Okay, now lets look how our proposals simulation table would look if it had been published a week ago. Let's assume 8BIT/RATE is fixed since it does not changed that much. +---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
| ? |MN COST| BLK VAL | MN RWRD | MN # | BTC INVEST. | 8BIT DAILY | BTC DAILY | ROI | INFLATION |
+---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
| - | 112 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 265 | 0.02912000 | 4.48301887| 0.00116558| 24d | + 0.00 % |
| A | 888 | 1.0000 | 0.8000 | 33 | 0.23088000 | 32.31266846| 0.00840129| 27d | - 16.67 % |
| B | 888 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 33 | 0.23088000 | 35.54393531| 0.00924142| 24d | + 0.00 % |
| C | 888 | 0.8000 | 0.6000 | 33 | 0.23088000 | 24.23450135| 0.00630097| 36d | - 33.33 % |
| D | 1024 | 1.0000 | 0.8000 | 28 | 0.26624000 | 37.26145553| 0.00968798| 27d | - 16.67 % |
| E | 512 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 57 | 0.13312000 | 20.49380054| 0.00532839| 24d | + 0.00 % |
| F | 888 | 1.2080 | 0.8880 | 33 | 0.23088000 | 35.86706199| 0.00932544| 24d | + 0.66 % |
| G | 1000 | 1.0000 | 0.1000 | 29 | 0.26000000 | 4.54851752| 0.00118261| 219d | - 16.67 % |
| H | 888 | 0.8880 | 0.4840 | 33 | 0.23088000 | 19.54916442| 0.00508278| 45d | - 26.00 % |
+---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
Oh, we were so profitable that day... what about 3 weeks ago? +---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
| ? |MN COST| BLK VAL | MN RWRD | MN # | BTC INVEST. | 8BIT DAILY | BTC DAILY | ROI | INFLATION |
+---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
| - | 112 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 188 | 0.02912000 | 6.31914894| 0.00164298| 17d | + 0.00 % |
| A | 888 | 1.0000 | 0.8000 | 23 | 0.23088000 | 45.54711246| 0.01184225| 19d | - 16.67 % |
| B | 888 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 23 | 0.23088000 | 50.10182371| 0.01302647| 17d | + 0.00 % |
| C | 888 | 0.8000 | 0.6000 | 23 | 0.23088000 | 34.16033435| 0.00888169| 25d | - 33.33 % |
| D | 1024 | 1.0000 | 0.8000 | 20 | 0.26624000 | 52.52279635| 0.01365593| 19d | - 16.67 % |
| E | 512 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 41 | 0.13312000 | 28.88753799| 0.00751076| 17d | + 0.00 % |
| F | 888 | 1.2080 | 0.8880 | 23 | 0.23088000 | 50.55729483| 0.01314490| 17d | + 0.66 % |
| G | 1000 | 1.0000 | 0.1000 | 21 | 0.26000000 | 6.41147416| 0.00166698| 155d | - 16.67 % |
| H | 888 | 0.8880 | 0.4840 | 23 | 0.23088000 | 27.55600304| 0.00716456| 32d | - 26.00 % |
+---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
So awesome we was... now since we see dynamic of number of masternodes growth we can try too look how it would look three weeks later, at the end of July: +---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
| ? |MN COST| BLK VAL | MN RWRD | MN # | BTC INVEST. | 8BIT DAILY | BTC DAILY | ROI | INFLATION |
+---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
| - | 112 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 469 | 0.02912000 | 2.53304904| 0.00065859| 44d | + 0.00 % |
| A | 888 | 1.0000 | 0.8000 | 59 | 0.23088000 | 18.25769114| 0.00474700| 48d | - 16.67 % |
| B | 888 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 59 | 0.23088000 | 20.08346025| 0.00522170| 44d | + 0.00 % |
| C | 888 | 0.8000 | 0.6000 | 59 | 0.23088000 | 13.69326835| 0.00356025| 64d | - 33.33 % |
| D | 1024 | 1.0000 | 0.8000 | 51 | 0.26624000 | 21.05391410| 0.00547402| 48d | - 16.67 % |
| E | 512 | 1.2000 | 0.8800 | 102 | 0.13312000 | 11.57965276| 0.00301071| 44d | + 0.00 % |
| F | 888 | 1.2080 | 0.8880 | 59 | 0.23088000 | 20.26603716| 0.00526917| 43d | + 0.66 % |
| G | 1000 | 1.0000 | 0.1000 | 52 | 0.26000000 | 2.57005787| 0.00066822| 389d | - 16.67 % |
| H | 888 | 0.8880 | 0.4840 | 59 | 0.23088000 | 11.04590314| 0.00287193| 80d | - 26.00 % |
+---+-------+---------+---------+------+--------------+-------------+------------+------+------------+
As you can see ROI grown rapidly. So everyday ROI calculator will show that masternode is less and profitable. So attract investors we have to start from a lower bound. Sure, 8BIT/BTC can also grow a lot but it's not something I can predict for next week or month. However, number of masternodes is easy to guess. So I base on this factor only. Why masternodes are so important? First, they are integrla part of future of this coin. Services will be served by masternodes so big and reliable network is absolutely must-have thing. Second, expensive masternodes create natural buy pressure. What do you think? |
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The rich list works like a charm. I can't help you without more details.
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Casted the vote on the poll. How many time will it be open?
Thanks
If nothing weird will happen poll will be closed on Sat, 6PM UTC like announced yesterday. |
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After yet another consideration, mangling pros and cons I decided to back to classic poll voting and picking your proposals as-is. Therefore we have: MASTERNODE COST BLOCK VALUE MASTERNODE REWARD COUNT
888.000 1.000 0.800 6
888.000 1.200 0.880 2
888.000 0.800 0.600 1
1024.000 1.000 0.800 1
512.000 1.200 0.880 1
888.000 1.208 0.888 1
1000.000 1.000 0.100 1
888.000 0.888 0.484 1
Each line represents voting option. Voting will start within one hour. Poll will be closed on Saturday (Jul 11) @ 6 PM UTC. Each user has one vote, decision can be changed while poll is open. Enjoy and vote! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1104296
This is not a thing to discuss nor blame. FUD, flame, comments, putting the cat among the pigeons will be IGNORED. Thanks!
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Gimme address or TXID or at least TX parameters (in/out amounts or tx size in kB). Or wait up to 5 days. Then ask again.
Fee is required, tx without it will stuck with 0 confirmations. I know many altcoins accept no-fee txs, this one does not.
EDIT: To Whom It May Concern - like I predicted it was txfee issue. Fee was too small. No bugs in blockchain nor wallet.
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Thread unlocked, comment added. You vote by simply placing a single letter representing your choice.
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Yup, newbie accounts can't vote https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=606989.0I am open to ideas. How to let newbies vote. I can open that thread and let newbies put their vote there. What about restriction that only accounts who spoke in main thread before can vote this way? Let me know what's your opinion. |
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Well i cant really understand what is happening right now, as i thought mastertrader was taking over, but this wasnt something certain as i see.
Im a bit missed, but i will sit and watch. By the way, if you are the old dev just gtfo, if thats the case.
If not, i will give you the benefit of the doubt as said before
these last pages are really confusing Reading this thread for last two months was confusing. Just talking (without conclusion), no progress. So I made progress, we grow in all aspects. Anyway, I repeat: 1) I am not taking over this coin alone. Community takeover is the right choice in my humble opinion 2) Anyone can still take over this coin. It can be mastertrader, Satoshi N., Gavin A. or Mark K., well known community member or random anon. I have not done anything giving me full control over this coin or community. I have not said with me or I quit. Nothing is locked. I feel happy with putting this coin on the right track. That's all. All those things were explained here so many time that it's probably last time I comment them as it wastes my precious time. No hard feelings, it's just clarification. Now vote. |
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After yet another consideration, mangling pros and cons I decided to back to classic poll voting and picking your proposals as-is. Therefore we have: MASTERNODE COST BLOCK VALUE MASTERNODE REWARD COUNT
888.000 1.000 0.800 6
888.000 1.200 0.880 2
888.000 0.800 0.600 1
1024.000 1.000 0.800 1
512.000 1.200 0.880 1
888.000 1.208 0.888 1
1000.000 1.000 0.100 1
888.000 0.888 0.484 1
Each line represents voting option. Voting will start within one hour. Poll will be closed on Saturday (Jul 11) Sunday (Jul 12) @ 6 PM UTC. Each user has one vote, decision can be changed while poll is open. Enjoy and vote! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1104296 |
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I'm fine with it. Traditional forum poll would be better but any other way is fine too.
I guess if we start another 3 threads with voting we would be called spammers. This is not what we really need. I don't think the proposed voting mechanism can work (if I understood it correct). Are we going to vote on three different numbers separately? Those numbers are not independent. How would you choose the winning combination?
No packs. Each vote will be independent. It's simplification but it's not harmful. Same way proposals were taken. I could also pick 3 most popular combinations but it's impossible, there 2 most common and others were a single occurency. Dev can you ask cryptsy to fix the coin?
I am not dev (yet maybe never - I want community takeover). Also no control over cryptsy, no control over official repo. All I can do is like all of you fill a ticket and ask for a fix. I also asked them on twitter for it. mastertrader said he can contact them. Finally wallet is perfectly fine, problem is with cryptsy, so even official dev can't help other way than just asking. |
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Nice, so you are uber-skilled no-money CEO/CTO looking for uber-skilled williing no money folks to run cryptocurrency which will bring you all a money.
The problem is those who dont need extra money cant be convinced with money-maybe-someday. Because they don't care.
The best would be if you first prove your uber-skill, then look for those who will work for you for free. Those who are not looking for cash will accept you because of your skill. Or just get a job, earn some money and pay those who need money for the things you want them to do.
That advice is free of charge.
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According to rules I assumed you change your proposal to this one. Shall we revert to your first proposal? It's not a problem yet.
Yes I want to revert to 0,1 per MN. All other numbers are way too high. Done. Original announcement has been updated. What do you think about voting mechanism I suggested? Are you fine with it? I want to continue ASAP |
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