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1021  Economy / Lending / Re: Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 02:36:57 PM
With the expense of hiring a lawyer, filing fees, court costs and wasted time.......is it really worth it to collect .07BTC? Look through the loan section, most of the requests are well below 1BTC. After reading for a bit you wouldn't ask this question.
This is why many ask for collateral greater than the value of the loan request.

An attorney for a small claims, really? I'm curious if there are stats out there, a lot of small claim courts in the states don't allow them, so that actually skews the number anyways. The fees... yeah there's definitely that cost. Where I am it's about 30 bucks which isn't too far from the average, but of course can be more depending on the amount. Chances are you're not going to get paid anyways, if it got to this point, but why not add those fees in your claim.

I've read many of requests and it's exactly why I'm posing the question actually. I'm not against this practice at all. But there is that bigger picture I talked about earlier. Do you think req DOX might discourage scammers in the least little way? I would imagine the number of scams would decrease, among other things.  the overall goal would be to change the current lending scene... eventually. Smiley

Thanks for your input, keep em' coming! Oh, can you elaborate a little more on why collateral is greater than the loan request?
1022  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [Poll] Which rig do you think is more profitable on: January 16, 2014, 01:55:30 PM
You are risking your life savings on an endeavor you will most likely lose money on. Brilliant!

Don't think so, most probably middlecoin will return me the ROI in max 3 months.
Plus, 75% resale value of cards till atleast 6 months.

Middlecoin is your worst option, only for the lazy and simple minded. You might get lucky and pick the right coin to mine, but the odds are against you. Factor in power costs and your dream world comes crumbling down.


Here' hoping OP mixes his portfolio, taking into account difficulty level; overall profitability of coins. If played right, ROI can be realized.

Why so harsh? How can you expect for anyone to accept anything you say when it cones out like that?
1023  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [Poll] Which rig do you think is more profitable on: January 16, 2014, 01:51:43 PM
You are risking your life savings on an endeavor you will most likely lose money on. Brilliant!

Don't think so, most probably middlecoin will return me the ROI in max 3 months.
Plus, 75% resale value of cards till atleast 6 months.

I'm not sure who started the rumor that it's impossible to see ROI with GPU rigs... OP I'm glad you know how to do the numbers. Risky, yeah, but so is the entire game.
1024  Economy / Lending / Re: Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 01:47:53 PM
Interesting observation....

Can I get feedback from lenders in the community? I'm not asking for you to justify your position on lending, just want to hear your take on the subject matter, is all. No judgement whatsoever.

Silence has the potential to be louder than spoken written words.
1025  Economy / Gambling / Re: CoinBet Casino, Sportsbook - Now offering up to 200% Match Bonus up to $10,000! on: January 16, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
How can you offer such a large bonus, particularly the free credit?  I will be happy, and pleasantly surprised I might say, to see if someone meets the rollover requirements and gets paid out.  Good luck!

I'm waiting to find our too Smiley  I will say that they're having issues with the free vouchers and the difficulty level. First round, hundreds if plays and not a single win. Got another voucher, won a little bit, then back to the same impossible to win. But tech support was really responsive. I'm sure I've exhausted all the freebies I'll ever get. My account won't be eligible for withdrawals for a long time anyways because the freebie 20x just kept rolling over, so it's more like 40x for me, lol.
1026  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [Poll] Which rig do you think is more profitable on: January 16, 2014, 12:55:36 PM
Have you considered power consumption? 270s don't consume near as much.

I know I can run 5x 270 on 2x 500w and save me $140 for not buying those 2x 850w.

BUT, only thing stopping me is 5 slots mobo are not available here all the time.
Still, if going 270 way is too cheap, I can take the risk.

Not to mention daily power consumption. Is it enough to compensate for the loss hash power? Make sure you consider your sail operating costs, not just the savings from the initial investment. Not sure where you are, but newegg has mobos in stock that can support 5 cards.
1027  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [Poll] Which rig do you think is more profitable on: January 16, 2014, 12:43:12 PM
Have you considered power consumption? 270s don't consume near as much.
1028  Other / Politics & Society / Re: [POLL] How would you describe yourself politically? on: January 16, 2014, 12:28:05 PM
Oh darn... I was hoping "Clueless" was a choice.
1029  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Some Paypal advice which could help for safer trading on: January 16, 2014, 12:25:44 PM
Is this thread only for buyers  Huh what about sellers protection ??

there is none with paypal. don't use it unless you accept the risk of losing that transaction's balance at any time for up to a year or more.

Not true... or so I just read. Consulting Google relating to another thread, I read about some people actually filing small claim judgements against people who do this. And in the case where you can prove they received the item, it becomes a criminal issue. How this would play out in the bitcoin world, IDK. Just thought I'd share in case people didn't know you could take this route.
1030  Economy / Lending / Re: Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 12:20:59 PM
But even so, 10 years is a long time in a world where your credit report is the most valuable real estate you own!

You and I can agree on this, however alot of people exist who really don't care.  I understand some people come upon hard times and I feel bad for them, but some people just plain don't care.

Do you really think it's a matter of not caring? Or are they just following the leader? For example, having a requirement of what a borrower is going to use the loan for... does it really matter in the big scheme of things? No. It's not a factor in getting repaid, but why is this listed as a requirement for 99% of the loan? Because somebody started it and everybody else is following, I assume. Smiley Of course a business venture is a different ballgame. 
1031  Economy / Lending / Re: Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 11:59:36 AM

A creditor is anyone you owe money to, the bank, a person or collection agency. Chargeoffs do not last forever on a credit report(even if unpaid) most states are 6 years,  Judgements do not last forever on a credit report (even if unpaid) most states are 10 years, some states do allow for renewal on the 10 years for another 10.

I agree most p2p loans would not go the collection agency route/loan resale route.  The people I have worked with in the past will buy the debt for 5% or work for free but take 30% if (big if) they can get the money.


Yes, you're right on the definition of a creditor. I specifically used it only to identify businesses in the lending industry in this context. Yes I know charge offs are temporary, but judgements I thought were permanent. I guess only certain types. But even so, 10 years is a long time in a world where your credit report is the most valuable real estate you own!
1032  Economy / Lending / Re: Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 11:42:31 AM
I can't imagine lending anyone more than a couple bitcents on dox collateral alone. It is just too easy to steal or buy someone else's ID, and even if someone used their real ID, why would I want to bother with the hassle of collection? Especially when it is very likely that the lendee lives in a different country.

Concur, International transactions do pose a problem with verification and litigation. Personally I would stray away from these types of transactions; find a native to deal. I guess the way I look at it... Yes, it may be a hassle until we find a shortcut, but the trend may have the potential to change the bitcoin lending scene. Scammers would think twice. At least that's part of my rationale.
1033  Economy / Lending / Re: Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 11:30:02 AM

Not forever, A creditor has only so much time to file suit and only so much time to collect after suit is filed.  It depends on the state how long each of these are.

You said right, a creditor. If you default on a loan, they can charge it off, resulting in a bad mark on your credit report; that's not a judgement, it's a collection. Judgements are public records and remain part of your credit file until paid. Most creditors don't actually file a suit, it's more profitable for them to sell your account to a collection agency. Not the route a p2p loan would take in the event of default.
1034  Economy / Lending / Re: Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 11:14:36 AM
Because this is how it used to be done ~2.5 years ago, and it nearly led to the (what would have maybe only have been temporary, however, we will never know) ruin of the BTC economy, and would have, if some people didn't bail out thousands of BTC of default from their own pockets.


EDIT: This is the tldr version of the story.

So why wasn't legal action taken? Or maybe perhaps point me to the story? I'd like to read it.

Because more than one person was responsible for it, and it was too big of a mess, and involving legal action at that point would have damaged bitcoin's reputation, and plus people all over the world were involved, it simply was not feasible. Also, it's written in posts by people recounting the events, I don't know of any off-hand though, as I was there to witness it, so I didn't read it from an article somewhere.

So this wasn't a P2P loan I gather. Interesting... The great BTC bailout of 2011 is one of the driving forces behind DOX non acceptance for loans.
1035  Economy / Lending / Re: Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 11:09:08 AM
The good news is if you have documents, you know where the person lives.  Not paying back a loan isn't worth losing a car windshield in most cases, ya know?

I suppose for those who like to take matters into their own hands. If anything, the fear you'd have to live with would kill you softly Wink
1036  Economy / Lending / Re: Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 11:07:23 AM
The problem that I can see is that even if someone positively identifies themselves, it is still a pain in the ass to collect, even more so if parties are in different states.  Also failing to repay a loan is not a crime, it is a civil matter,  it would be almost impossible to prove that the debtor defrauded someone or had no intent to repay the loan.

I can't imagine having a borrower's DOX would make it easier to collect, but it could be an incentive for the borrower to repay due to potential consequences. You're right, failing to repay a loan is a civil matter, which could result in a judgement against the borrower, forever. Will you get repaid, probably not, but that judgement will be with the defaulter until they resolve it. That hurts the real person sitting on the other side of the screen, in the real world. And depending on how the transaction was solicited, it may be possible to pursue criminal charges as well, less burden of proof.

1037  Economy / Lending / Re: Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 09:20:26 AM
Because this is how it used to be done ~2.5 years ago, and it nearly led to the (what would have maybe only have been temporary, however, we will never know) ruin of the BTC economy, and would have, if some people didn't bail out thousands of BTC of default from their own pockets.


EDIT: This is the tldr version of the story.

So why wasn't legal action taken? Or maybe perhaps point me to the story? I'd like to read it.
1038  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Your recommend for asus radeon 270X on: January 16, 2014, 09:15:16 AM
Interesting...

I know different brands vary in hash rates, but how large is this gap? 270x is being reported on coinpolice up to 750kh.

http://coinpolice.com/gpu/
1039  Economy / Lending / Loans and the acceptance of DOX on: January 16, 2014, 07:53:06 AM
First: This isn't a loan request - just an inquiry to satisfy my curiosity. Please feel free to move if necessary.

Some time ago I polled you all on whether you'd have more confidence in lending *if* the borrower could be identified. Needless to say, there wasn't much interest, but those who did respond said they'd only gain a little more trust to follow through with the transaction.

My question to you all is - Why isn't full disclosure of one's identity enough to secure a loan?

I've seen several people request loans offering their DOX only to get ragged on and collateral demanded. I don't disagree with collateral (please don't misconceive what I'm saying), I guess I don't quite understand why there's an issue with proof of identity. Yes, I know this community is full of scammers; I've been scammed (not here tho) and I've even called a few of them out. I also know that DOX can be faked. But is that the only reason for its non acceptance? I mean, if you know someone's identity (verified identity), couldn't you pursue criminal charges against them for breach of trust? Or make a small claims case against them? Wouldn't those judgements against a defaulted borrower have a more lasting effect?

Lets have a civilized discussion, please.

And for those who might be thinking I'm preparing to ask for a loan... shame on you. I'd starve first.


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