The notion that a team must do either marketing/branding or product development is a false dichotomy. Some responses to the "let's do branding" position seem to be taking an either/or approach which is not necessary. Those who feel marketing/branding is vital are free to work on it without any need for others to stop working on product development. My own take is that branding/marketing is of relatively little consequence in big picture terms. While many marketing campaigns have been spectacularly effective, marketing efforts cannot prop up a weak product indefinitely (MintChip crypto, Blockbuster). At the other extreme, there are legendary examples of products that rose to the top with little or no marketing (Hershey bars, Napster), and even stellar products with good marketing that failed anyway (Betamax, quadraphonic sound). Those who perceive that marketing is paramount will say the failures needed more marketing and those who perceive that product is paramount will say the failures needed better product. There are no hard science methods to test the relative contribution of the factors. Regardless - the "other side" - the fiat side - will invest heavily in marketing efforts to discredit crypto in general and DRK in particular once it is on their radar. We cannot possibly beat them in media access, coverage, or any of the other advantages that accrue to established entrenched entities. They will say and do anything they perceive will help preserve their hegemony. Anything. We cannot compete at that level without becoming just like them. Never wrestle a pig in a mudhole. You both get dirty and the pig enjoys it. On the other hand, crypto's potential strength is in nimbleness and product. Crypto is an idea whose time has come. Privacy is an idea that must never be lost. Heh - a year or so back, the "other side" described BTC in the media as being used "to buy assault rifles stuffed with heroin". We haven't even begun to hear the smears they'll come up with for DRK. Once they gather some momentum, the puerile trolling so far in the forums will seem like the good old days. Product might win but marketing will be buried by the other side, imho. Pawn to queen four. Mate in seven. Great points aigeezer. You're absolutely right that we can't compete head-on with traditional marketing (we'd need the entire market cap of crypto and then some to have even a chance!) But we can get clear about what DRK is, why it's important and why anyone should use it and that it's primarily about financial privacy and freedom, up front now to ensure the messaging is consistent. A small amount of clarity now has a great amount of leverage to help avoid confusion in the future. I've never heard this piece of advice before. Never wrestle a pig in a mudhole. You both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Hilarious!
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Guys, I'm so tired of the endless debate on the name. Yes, I understand that a brand is extremely important, but we are taking it a bit too far, aren't we?
The word "dark," to most people, simply means "absence of light" or "hidden from sight." It does not, to most people, immediately imply "evil" or "child porn" or "murder for hire." The word, in the context within which it's used, simply means "hidden coins."
Respectfully ddink7, I unfortunately don't think you're right. The term "dark" where it's related to anything associated with the Internet means "people doing illegal things". The presence of "coins" within the context is almost irrelevant. I'll bet if you took this to a series of focus groups (as abhorrent a concept as they are) you would find that nearly every person would consider the word "dark" to be associated with illegal goings on and/or dubious on-line activity by people with something to hide that involves them doing wrong. I'm in Australia and have mentioned DarkCoin to a few friends and family and every single person has thought that it sounds (what we here term) dodgy. Maybe wherever you are it's different, but I'd be surprised if that's the case.
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Ignition I have spent decades questioning almost every aspect of how we live, why we accept things being the way they are and why banks have become so powerful. I have an extensive knowledge of the greatest scam in the history of the world (guv issued fiat) that we've all been subject to for decades now and what a house of cards it involves.
I am not a person that has "this attitude that empowers the existing way of things".
I seem to be having the same difficulty here with everyone not peering down into the next layer of the argument I'm putting up here but simply returning to their comfort level around what THEY think DRK is all about.
I love what DRK stands for, what Evan's created and the potential for the millions who ABSOLUTELY NEED this technology to set them free. I'm not thinking from within the constraints of typical brainwashed westernised financial slavery that has trouble breaking away from rules, regulations and the status quo. I'm specifically talking about the risk to DRK from a runaway incorrect public perception. Just because we know what it's really about and we know the potential for good does not mean this is how it will be understood by society in general. At this point I would say the potential for it to be seen as an illegal network supporting criminal activity is way way stronger than it being seen as a tool to set people free.
A branding/positioning issue exists and all the techo/libertarian/cool conversations in the world aren't going to shift that. It needs consideration along the lines of Nthelight's posting above.
I've worked for the banks, for many years, at a senior level... I've seen the ugliness first hand and I'm fully aware of what they are capable of... If we meet them head on, using the same tools, we will never win... By changing the way people think, you cut the snake off at the head... I hear what you are saying, completely, I just feel that worrying about it and trying to combat it at that level will be futile... We will need to think outside the box and try a different tact... Already now, my girlfriend watches all the commercial dramas on TV, I listen in the background sometimes, for the last 6 months they have been linking Bitcoin to money laundering, terrorism and paedophiles... What you are saying is happening now and it's a very real problem... What I'm saying, is if we change our product or strategy based on fear, they have already won... Okay, great. Agree totally, reset the platform upon which this stuff sits/get people to "think" using different tools/techniques (but we'll still need one foot in the existing modus operandi of "marketing/product positioning" or we'll never connect to enough people to get some sort of critical mass). The important point is consideration of DRK's outbound messaging is fundamentally important and we need to get ahead of the situation before it "forks" off into unrecoverability (look at any failed political campaign and you can generally see where the political party involved lost control of their message early on and failed to recover it). I think Salmion's suggestion to get this going as a discussion on Darkcointalk is good and Nthelight's invite to that thread on the same forum where he's already put forward many key points around this same issue is worth accepting/being involved with too. https://darkcointalk.org/threads/10-reasons-to-invest-in-darkcoin.814/#post-4804
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I think RenegadeMan lack of global vision. We are not talking about US service or EU service, we are talking about something can help people all around the world.
China, Iran, Pakistan, Russia, some african countries, most of arab countries like Siria, Egipt, etc.. there are a lot of countries which are not regular democracies like US and EU. Every day journalists, freedom fighters are killed all around the world.
I fully understand what DRK's going to do for the millions of people in the world for who privacy isn't just something nice to have, their very life depends on it. Contrary to some of the comments on here (which are hardly a surprise, so many people aren't able to think through counterpoint issues, they just return to a default position of rejecting even constructive criticism) I'm not misunderstanding the enormity of what DRK's potentially going to bring to the wider world. I'm talking about the risk to DRK of government and big business facilitating a whipping up of extreme public negative sentiment towards it resulting in a witch-hunt style of attack on anyone involved in running DRK MNs and/or DRK related businesses/services. It's the risk to DRK of it becoming publicly associated first and foremost as a "criminals' network" that I'm highlighting, not whether DRK has validity, everyone here knows it does. The level of anonymity and privacy offered is a fundamental right that we all should be upholding. I'm talking about the risk DRK faces and whether we can mitigate that risk to some extent. So is just a marketing issue? Just spread the map I published. Freedom is a rare thing in our world! We need to make people think about that. I had the exact same attitude as RenegadeMan when I first discovered Darkcoin, then I realised, it's this attitude that empowers the existing way of things. You almost have to break free of this mental prism you are programmed with growing up in a developed society. The world is thirsty for a change, whenever I'm on the street talking to regular folk about Crypto, I say that it gives the ability for people to exchange money, securely, without the need for banks... You should see their eyes light up... Then the programming kicks on, "Oh I heard Bitcoin is not secure, what happened to that exchange that lost all it's money?"... The existing establishment is going to throw untold amounts of money at a media blitzkrieg for many years to come, it's gonna get really ugly before it gets better for Crypto, but as Alex said, 75% of the world is without banking and developed infrastructure, we have to ride Google's wave of getting cheap smartphones into the hands of the masses to show all their ads, and just make sure we have a super light and secure Darkcoin app running in the background ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Ignition I have spent decades questioning almost every aspect of how we live, why we accept things being the way they are and why banks have become so powerful. I have an extensive knowledge of the greatest scam in the history of the world (guv issued fiat) that we've all been subject to for decades now and what a house of cards it involves. I am not a person that has "this attitude that empowers the existing way of things". I seem to be having the same difficulty here with everyone not peering down into the next layer of the argument I'm putting up here but simply returning to their comfort level around what THEY think DRK is all about. I love what DRK stands for, what Evan's created and the potential for the millions who ABSOLUTELY NEED this technology to set them free. I'm not thinking from within the constraints of typical brainwashed westernised financial slavery that has trouble breaking away from rules, regulations and the status quo. I'm specifically talking about the risk to DRK from a runaway incorrect public perception. Just because we know what it's really about and we know the potential for good does not mean this is how it will be understood by society in general. At this point I would say the potential for it to be seen as an illegal network supporting criminal activity is way way stronger than it being seen as a tool to set people free. A branding/positioning issue exists and all the techo/libertarian/cool conversations in the world aren't going to shift that. It needs consideration along the lines of Nthelight's posting above.
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Your legitimate concern will not be understood well, is likely to be labeled as FUD and you may even be considered a troll now by people who are unfamiliar with strategic thinking, corporate vision and communication, long term outlook, marketing and promotion, product management, human psychology, public relations and so on. However, I do feel you 100%, marketing-wise, we're likely taking another step backwards (with the suggested DarkTor) or at least we're making it even more difficult to reach mainstream adoption. It's as if this is an unknown world to the core darkcoin supporters? Despite the wonderful technical innovation, the more darkness there will be in the image of the product, the less mainstream this product will end up being in my opinion (please understand the consequences). Most people look at the name/image/package of the product, rather than the superiority of the innerworkings (take Doge as a hint from within the crypto world). I'm well aware that Evan has explicitly said that several features, including the name are now "locked in". Community members have said "it's already been discussed", but this is not really true (check the first few pages of this thread). I sincerely hope that some day Evan reconsiders the name. Doesn't he want to take his precious out there for everyone to enjoy? I'm starting to have some doubts to be honest. Try convincing non-tech, non-cryptocurrency people about the wonders of Darkcoin. Not easy. Not easy at all. All they hear is "dark", "dark", "dark" and their mind associates it with bad/illegal things. The general public doesn't like the name at all. I've undergone test cases which left me with an upset feeling in my stomach. I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and the short answer is that Darkcoin deserves a much better 'mainstream' name to make promotion a much easier task "outside the crypto/tech world". Imho the name "ecash" could be a potential winner, as often used here in this forum. I like this one a lot and see no issues with it from a marketing perspective, but unfortunately this has been and is still used officially by certain organizations (needs to be investigated more deeply). We could however make it clear to everyone that this is ours to take. Since this is clearly not the place to have an efficient and grown up intelligent discussion on branding, marketing and PR, I kindly invite you and anyone who shares the same concern to visit the darkcointalk.org thread I opened on 24/05/2014 ( https://darkcointalk.org/threads/10-reasons-to-invest-in-darkcoin.814/#post-4804). Share your opinion and solutions to the issue. Let's see if we can work together to at least present alternatives to Evan which are a lot easier to market. People need to stop thinking about what 'they' like, and consider what the general public likes. Thanks Nthelight, you've added much to what I'm trying to articulate. And before everyone jumps down our throats with a collective repulsion of: "stop worrying about 'what the public wants' and the 'mainstream' as DRK isn't about making 'the public' happy", you MUST understand that branding and public opinion are massively important to the success of a product or service, even if it's going to remain relatively niche. You simply cannot underestimate how badly this could turn out and how toxic the term "DarkCoin" could so easily become if perceptions are not carefully managed. The attitude here is quite often "f^*@ them, what would they know" and that's guaranteed to make DRK fail. This bit you wrote... #01 - The branding provides, in my humble opinion, challenges towards large market adoption. Merchants are not likely to readily accept darkcoin due to its associations with illicit activities, whether it's justified or not. The least you could say is that it's not mainstream and is effectively somewhat branded to end up in a niche market. When customers and businesses buy or accept darkcoins, they will reconsider or get rid off it when the image of illegality is omnipresent. You bought darkcoins? So, you're a criminal? What do you have to hide? Anyone, including the believers, will continue to associate dark technology with illicit activities, because it may briefly make the price go up. If you do not understand how damaging this will be to the image and value of the product, then you need to stop for a minute and try to think about the longer term and the big picture. Soon there may be no difference in people's mind between darkcoin, dark network and the infamous dark web. I find this the quintessential reason why Darkcoin MAY fail entirely, despite it's innovation.
...is key to the risk I've been talking about. If the factors above are not considered DRK will come unstuck badly. Having great technology is just one factor in a product's success (and, of course, a very important one) but the other factors around branding and perception are way more critical for long term sustainability/survival. Thanks for your input, I will post over in that thread you've mentioned.
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I think RenegadeMan lack of global vision. We are not talking about US service or EU service, we are talking about something can help people all around the world.
China, Iran, Pakistan, Russia, some african countries, most of arab countries like Siria, Egipt, etc.. there are a lot of countries which are not regular democracies like US and EU. Every day journalists, freedom fighters are killed all around the world.
I fully understand what DRK's going to do for the millions of people in the world for who privacy isn't just something nice to have, their very life depends on it. Contrary to some of the comments on here (which are hardly a surprise, so many people aren't able to think through counterpoint issues, they just return to a default position of rejecting even constructive criticism) I'm not misunderstanding the enormity of what DRK's potentially going to bring to the wider world. I'm talking about the risk to DRK of government and big business facilitating a whipping up of extreme public negative sentiment towards it resulting in a witch-hunt style of attack on anyone involved in running DRK MNs and/or DRK related businesses/services. It's the risk to DRK of it becoming publicly associated first and foremost as a "criminals' network" that I'm highlighting, not whether DRK has validity, everyone here knows it does. The level of anonymity and privacy offered is a fundamental right that we all should be upholding. I'm talking about the risk DRK faces and whether we can mitigate that risk to some extent.
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Im in 99%
hooooohooooo, wake up, its not ello kitty world here. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi609.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt178%2Fheathconno%2Fhello-kitty-darth-vader-1.jpg&t=665&c=hVBFNaFc7dIfYg) For everything else you have DRK Sorry Gay to compare you to RenegadeMan, realy.No. I'm not in 99% otherwise I wouldn't be articulating such a concept (or even be here in this thread). I'm purely considering the risk to DRK from 99%'s reaction under mass manipulation by guv, bigbis, media. It's a very real risk and one to be considered rather than discredited like you've just done.
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I implore every one to take off their techo propeller hat for a moment and discuss this from a human/societal perspective. We're likely to see DRK go to great heights only to become a concept so offensive and dirty that anyone who's even been remotely involved will be labelled with the same connotations as the criminals who're likely to become DRK's best customers. As for mainstream POS take-up of DRK, even at the most basic level on websites that might currently be offering Bitcoin, I think we could completely forget that possibility if DRK gets associated first and foremost with criminal activity.
I'm very concerned.
I am no techie at all, just an investor. And I am libertarian, which for me means to be opposed to child abuse and most activities referred to as "terrorism" (which includes the most common - government sponsored terrorism, by the way...). I get your point, but what do you suggest? You can`t filter the traffic running through DarkTor can you? Macno I don't yet know what to offer as a solution, but I'm thinking this is primarily a marketing issue. We're all here singing the praises of privacy and anonymity because many of us have come from a libertarian perspective meaning we don't need to have a "your right to privacy 101" conversation before we even start. But Average Joe is clueless about privacy and has no idea how their profile data is being used by guv and big business every day to milk them for more and more. And if something big like 9/11 (or even a smaller version) was to happen, the guv will look for any scapegoats they can find where messaging can be put out that Average Joe will fall for and DRK will be right in the firing line. Somehow, I think we need to consider whether the term "dark" is just already too far gone in the public's mind and creates unnecessary risk for us (i.e. rather than trying to educate people on what this is really all about, which will be almost impossible, especially during a witch hunt, maybe we need to come up with different terminology altogether). Edit: And if something big like 9/11 (or even a smaller version) was to happen, the guv will look for any scapegoats they can find where messaging can be put out that Average Joe will fall for and DRK will be right in the firing line.
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I'm very concerned.
Very valid concerns. You will have noticed that I have been suggesting a name change, resulting in a compromise, from my part, of putting forward just DRK. I have also been looking at white label options where the wallet is given a completely different branding. Who cares that there is something called DRK running the network from behind? DRKTor Tor is legal https://www.torproject.org/eff/tor-legal-faqMy view is that its like people growing pot in their rented homes. You don't arrest the property owner, you arrest those that are growing. Master Nodes not those putting any illegal material on the network. The cops have to hunt and arrest those that do the crime. That's how the internet works now. Illegal file sharing is illegal, you go after king dot com, not the ISP whose wires get used. For me, this is the first project that has a crypto backed by something tangible. DRK coins will have intrinsic value because you need them to use the DRKTor infrastructure. We have always said that Bitcoin is too far ahead to beat. Now that only applies to mainstream merchant outlets. We can have something approaching Bitcoin value, by creating the value ourselves. For me, DRKTor is not a criminal infrastructure network, it would be a tool and the answer to being tracked to death by every single internet company. The governments of the world make and sell weapons. They get used for illegal purposes. They still make more weapons. We should ban this before looking to ban DRKTor before it gets going. Thanks for responding coins101; I always enjoy your posts. I know, and you know (and probably most of the people on here know) that an anonymous currency and Internet browsing tool like DarkCoin/DarkTor IS NOT to blame for people doing illegal things and committing crime any more than say a road is the cause of a fleeing bank robber. Crime will likely always exist and criminals will continue to find new and novel ways to perform their dastardly deeds. But, the public takes years to come around to the logic of valid arguments. And in the post 9/11 world of "homeland security" governments are taking liberties that they could never have gotten away with previously. I've had to listen to numerous ignorant people talking about ISPs being responsible for illegal file downloads. That these same people would think you're mad to say the phone company is responsible for the content of criminals' conversations being conveyed across the wires, but they struggle to understand how an ISP is only a conveyance mechanism and can't be responsible for policing content. This is what we'll likely face. Mr and Mrs Joe Public (manipulated and controlled by the guv, big business and the media) will not be able to differentiate between a network that guarantees privacy (for a thousand valid democracy-based reasons) and people using it to perform criminal acts. And our protestations on this will just be lost in a sea of damnation if DRK is found to have been the conduit for communications/funds transfer for terrorists who've committed some major attack. It's one thing to hold a purest view on how this "should" play out (and how we "should" be treated) it' another thing to prepare for the likely reality. I'm just saying we need to risk profile this as I think it's potentially a show-stopper somewhere down the track.
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Is DarkTor the definite name? The word Tor is becoming a little synonymous with drugs and child porn. VPN and others not so much.
The thing is our concept is Tor-like rather than VPN-like ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Sorry for the long post but this is very important. I haven't posted too often in this thread but I've pretty much read all the pages (sometimes flicking rapidly down the screen to get past the less than relevant stuff and occasionally needing to miss a wad of pages to quickly catch up). I'm heavily invested in DRK. It's been the coin I've kept the bulk of my crypto value in. I'm as pleased as the next person to see the price free-fall coming to an end and I'm also excited about the possibilities Evan's latest announcement has brought. However, I think we need to have an urgent and open discussion about the potential unintended consequences of "DarkTor" (or whatever it's going to be called). For a while now the term "dark" has been sitting uncomfortably with me. Not because the dev's intention is to create a tool for illegal money laundering and drug money to hide itself, but that the mainstream media and public in general are immediately going to assume "DarkCoin" is about illegal activity and underworld crime. Outside of the coolness of Batman who fights crime and keeps the residents of Gotham safe and a distinct type of chocolate, "dark" generally relates to a side of human nature that everyone knows exists but most don't want to investigate. One can watch a film that is "dark", one can engage in illegal activities that would be thought of as "dark", one can investigate the occult and black magic which is most definitely "dark" and one can find one's way into a whole "dark" world on the internet that's going to involve all sorts of "dark" things like the supply of illicit drugs, child pornography, terrorism and human trafficking. Like it or not, for the public and mainstream media, dark = bad/illegal/criminal. Now, we have the remarkable opportunity to provision completely anonymous Internet access/browsing and Tor-like privacy (but even better than Tor given the likely flaws in Tor as it stands) and create an outstanding revenue stream for MN operators. As many posters on here have pointed out, this is what crypto's been missing, an immediate and powerful reason for new money to come into crypto and get immediate value (rather than it just being a purely speculative play). It opens up enormous potential for DRK to sky-rocket in value and become a much much bigger undertaking. All good and wonderful. But (and it's a monumental BUT that I don't think anyone's truly thinking though), if DarkCoin previously had the potential to be seen as dubious because of its name and association with possible money laundering and illegality, DarkTor will 100% cement that perception. If you can pay $0.50 per day to browser the Internet completely anonymously and securely, it will become THE paedophile and terrorist tool of choice. In fact, once it becomes known as THE answer to web anonymity because the technology is so sound and so thorough, it will be THE ONLY place paedophiles and terrorists go to ply their trade. Just how long do you think DRK is going to last under this scenario? How likely is it MN operators will just be left to carry on on their merry way, earning dollars and maintaining the network without intervention by a plethora of government entities? How long before major investigative programs like the PBS's FRONTLINE in the US and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's 4Corners in Australia do a massive exposure of what's going on with DRK? If there's proof terrorists and paedophiles are using it, do you think the libertarian arguments many of us here know and love about the right to privacy will even feature as a counterpoint to what's potential going through the DRK network? 0 I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm bursting everyone's bubble (and please, let's be intelligent enough with this that I don't get accusations of troll and FUD hurled at me; this is a legitimate concern that needs to be addressed). We are all having a wonderful time talking about how exciting this is and how rosy the future looks. As a technologist that also has high levels of EQ, a heart, a soul and a deep level of care for my fellow man, I can see this turning into a "marketing", "damage control", "PR" disaster. Evan, if you've truly built a better version of Tor (without all the worry of nodes being run by the NSA and potential flaws and vulnerabilities exposing users' browsing) then you have achieved something remarkable. But, you've also created something that is going to become a massive threat to law enforcement and security. It will not go unnoticed by those that have a vested interest in preventing technology like this being used by humans that want to do damage. I've mentioned something similar to this in a previous post (some weeks or month ago), the words "dark coin" or dark tor" are likely to end up with the worst of the worst connotations that will make the phrase "silk road" sound like something Disney might be involved in. I implore every one to take off their techo propeller hat for a moment and discuss this from a human/societal perspective. We're likely to see DRK go to great heights only to become a concept so offensive and dirty that anyone who's even been remotely involved will be labelled with the same connotations as the criminals who're likely to become DRK's best customers. As for mainstream POS take-up of DRK, even at the most basic level on websites that might currently be offering Bitcoin, I think we could completely forget that possibility if DRK gets associated first and foremost with criminal activity. I'm very concerned.
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Seems like this coin has lost some steam?
If you don't have mature coins Stakes don't work. What does this means? Wait for your coins to mature ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Also it hasn't lost any steam, the developers and community is still very active. I agree with you developers and community doing good at this time just because of this RDD can survive and give some good return But why REDD price dropping down regularly. I'm not sure what charts you're looking at, but it's stabilized.. in the last 7 days it's hit a high of 16, low of 13. it's selling at 14 now. It's an absolute blood bath in crypto across the board at the moment. I'm invested in some very promising altcoins including DarkCoin, Cloakcoin and ReddCoin. They're all being hammered except for ReddCoin (well, in real terms it's being hammered too as BTC has taken a tumble, but it's holding well against BTC). I've been pretty amazed at how stable it is.
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zzzzz no one interested is discussing features of posa v2....
I am. To get this stuff out into the mainstream there are dozens of questions we need to have immediate and sound answers for. With my "regular Joe the consumer" hat on, how about these questions that are likely to come from someone completely new to Crypto be discussed and considered? 1. (A likely scenario) "My friend told me all about CloakCoin and I downloaded the wallet. He sent me a few Cloak to get me started. And now he showed me how to buy BTC at an exchange, convert it to Cloak and now we transferred it to my wallet. I'm really excited about this! But my tech friend's gone away. I forgot to ask him, if I'm buying something from a website in Cloak and I use PoSA, how do I know that they've received my payment?" 2. "And what if they say they didn't receive it? Who do I contact to find out what's happened to my Cloak I sent?" 3. "I read the PoSA explanatory non-technical PDF, I think it's really cool. What if my coins get exchanged with a criminal or terrorist organisation while they're being cloaked? Have I committed a money laundering crime?" 4. "and my friend told me about OneMarket, I can't wait to use it. You know on eBay you get 'buyer protection' if you don't receive your stuff. How will that work on OneMarket? Like, how will you know if the party you're buying from really did receive your payment? And if I'm selling stuff on OneMarket and the buyer says they didn't receive the shipment does the Escrow system within PoSA help protect me from them claiming they haven't received the shipment when they have?" 5. "And will there be an on-line wallet so I don't have to worry about backing up my wallet and my laptop crashing?" 6. "I heard you get 'interest' on your wallet balance. Who's paying that, Cloak?" 7. "If my laptop does crash and I haven't backed up my wallet can I still get my coins back from the block chain somehow?" 8. "When I installed the wallet it took a long time to synchronise the download. Someone told me eventually Bitcoin and other cryptos will be unusable because the block chain will be too big. Is that right?" 9. "What happens if the Cloak developers go out of business, will my Cloak become worthless?" 10. "I'm really worried about my laptop being hacked. Are there viruses that can get my Cloak? What can I do to stop this?" Edit: Fixed Q1 buying BTC from exchange, than converting it to Cloak then sending it to wallet.
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I don't think the market realises that Drk has functional anonymity now.
They can be excused for thinking there may be problems when looking back over the last 10 pages of this forum where a few users did indeed have some problems that may not be related to darkcoin software at all. Once those issues get solved and explained, folks going to feel more comfortable buying more drk. Edit: great work propulsion. Now all of Camo's problems are solved and his coins are safe. A happy ending! Yes, the 'problems' mentioned in here would give people a false impression. The average punter isn't able to understand that we're on an a 'Release Candidate' network and code implementation. Good to hear about Propulsion's recovery of Camo's coins. But this bit Now all of Camo's problems are solved...
based on how he was talking about the loss of coins being almost the least of his problems today, perhaps not....
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Oh sorry so sorry. tell your drk plebs to stop posting here they troll all day every day, constant trolling. we never troll there.
There have been plenty of examples of people from here writing excessively negative posts over in the DRK thread. I've been reading both of them for a long time. It's terribly wearing. Any of us that are serious want serious discussion about the coin's development and future; that's what this is about. Both DRK and CLK have enourmous potential but they can also easily be wiped out by a serious technical failure or a malicious hack/concerted take-down. It's very early days and what we need to do is focus, focus, focus on getting a clear and concise message out to help bring more investors and greater thoroughness. Many people here are trying to do that. Many people over in the Dark camp are the same; but on each side there are a handful just caught up in complete and utter stupidity of quoting half-truths (or often no-truths) and throwing mud around in the hope some of it will stick. That's just a recipe for intelligence substantial people to leave and nit come back. Focus on what is good about Cloak and forget about talking DRK (or any other coin) down. And if people come here to put shit on Cloak, competently correct their mis-assertions and stay focussed on Cloak's outstanding features and benefits. That's how this coin will become wildly successful.
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Troll harder man. It's not a whitepaper. Nor did development claim it was a whitepaper. It's a introduction for the non-technical. I assure you all your idiotic posts on this thread have exactly zero influence on anybody with a modicum of intelligence. It's well done and great for anybody interested in learning more about Cloak, but not savvy in the space. What does this say? http://cloakdesk.com/posa-v2-block-escrow-whitepaper/I'd be concerned that your dev doesn't know what a white paper is. Nice, another Darkcoin troll (nice post history). First off, the paper is PoSA in layman's terms. Secondly, do you really think anyone on the deepweb will take "Darkcoin" seriously? LULZ. The scam accusations behind the launch of DRK will prevent any adoption from the deepweb.. I guarantee that. You'll come off as shill and that's exactly what you are. DRK is building a product that nobody will ever use.. one of the biggest mistakes when developing a startup. All they need to do is visit the thread below and they wont make it past the first post. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0Go back under your dark bridge babytroll, one day you'll grow into a full grown troll.. but today isn't that day. yeah, they have their problems with latest release it seems : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg8342092#msg8342092 I hope he recovers though... wow looks like camo lost 7300 drk...in a buggy release wallet...couldnt have happened to a nicer guy. ![Kiss](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/kiss.gif) I bet he will call evan an idiot before it over. 4th time release wasn't a charm it seems...I feel sorry for him, but at least the premine have plenty to reimburse him from if they want to... True that 2 million coin premine....dat ni**a is rich! wait.... 2 million x 4.74 = OMG!!!!! scam. Guys, I am equally invested in both DRK and CLK. It does no good for CloakCoin's reputation to constantly talk DarkCoin down like this. I have done substantial due diligence and I believe the DRK dev team to be just as genuine and talented as the CLK dev team. The "never ending DRK premine/instamine FUD" which is brought up again and again has been dealt with numerous times and is no longer an issue (an I'm not going to put links in here because thsi is the Cloak thread....if you're interested go and seek the information out independently as I have done). CloakCoin has some astoundingly good features and aspects to it. The future will be very bright if everyone stays professional and focusses on what's great about CloakCoin. Stop trashing DRK, they honestly don't deserve it. Both camps have people of dubious intent doing this, but at the core, both camps have some extremely talented people and what we all need to do is help to get people in here who're outside of Crypto. There's just no need to put competitive coins down when what Cloak has is so good (and this exact same message I've said to the Dark people too). Enough of this childish "gang" mentality; we don't need it. What we want to do is demonstrate how we're here for the long haul to get noticed by bigger markets and bigger investors. That won't happen while people engage in such banality.
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So long as there is no forking (which there isn't) you are right that coins can be lost. Evan did say something about not selecting "no preference" when sending....
Wow, he said that? Maybe next time he should post that on the wallet download page so people don't lose a grand like I may have. I think JGCMiner meant to say "So long as there is no forking (which there isn't) you are right that coins CAN'T be lost" to be in agreeance. JGC, am I correct?
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![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fconventionalstupidity.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2FScreenshot-08132014-102227-PM.png&t=665&c=E418OyFkOD9_Sw) Sorry to say it, but, this ain't workin'... Huh. What is wrong? That looks fine to me. 1) I had darksend disabled. Why is it doing a really half-assed job of denominating when it's OFF. 2) Check the address that the 73xx DRK was sent to. It's not on the blockchain. Just gone... Did those coins already start anonymizing before you turned Darksend off? Maybe. There are no denominate/change addresses for them tho... Where'd they go? Can't come back, no addresses. Most disturbingly, I sent the 7383 BEFORE any of the numbers started changing around... All this crap showed up retroactively; AFTER I made the send of the 7383... So, here's me, "Oh fuck yeah, I managed to save these DRKs! Let me send them somewhere safe!" le click! Sit there for a while; blammo! Welcome to being denominated in a totally fail way and your coins are gone! I hope they end up in The Dev Fund or something where they can come back to me manually at least... This sucks. Watching this with absolute baited breath Camo. I'm really hoping for you that you can get through this big mess. Having worked in IT for a long time I've seen situations like this where you just lurch from one crisis to the next and everything ends up in interlaced ambiguity with little understanding of what the current true status is. Try to stay very calm and breathe deeply. I'm sure everyone will do the darnedest to help you recover all your coins.
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funniest thing about the bittrex thing is she is constantly saying the same things in here and being deleted left and right. was causing problems in the cloak irc a while back etc. and does the same type of things in trex irc and on the trollbox. Now that people are scared about the price allofasudden people care. people need to chill, it's messed up sure, but acting like some little girl has all that power is just f#cking silly. kitaco or tacocat or whatever she calls herself does not matter... period.
Full ack. In general, people tend to surrender to the compulsive need of finding someone to blame when something being not in their favor has happened. The person being the easiest one to blame falls prey to this desperate need. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do not endorse causing fear (or manipulating people into selling at a loss for one's own profit / manipulating people in general, if that's what the things that have happened can be called), especially when you're in a position involving responsibilities. But I think it's okay now... ...dear cloakheads, just look at what happened: There were some great news about decent features on the last pages, but almost nobody recognized them because we're all way too much occupied in judging people for things we cannot change anymore. Brilliantly stated allyouracid (are you just an "acid" supplier rather than someone that drops it too? You seem too sensible for a coke head)
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![Cry](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cry.gif) R.I.P One of the best actors in the world ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fyte716K.png&t=665&c=By0cKv5X9YbNTA) Yes. I know it's off topic but someone that was that extraordinary needs to be acknowledged. Thanks for posting David.
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CLOACK looks very promising ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I like that the dev are active and working on the site, and have no plans of dumping when CLOACK goes to the moon. Thank you all the good work us little folks we like that, have good portofulio of alt: CLOACK, STEALTH and CANNABIS COIN. Happy tuesday! Hey Brian (and the few others that keep writing "Cloack") It's a small thing but an important one. You wouldn't see someone from Apple spelling that very successful business "Appel". And you would never see someone from Google writing Gewgle. And you wouldn't think too much of someone that keeps calling you Brianne would you (because that's not your name)! Likewise, the name of Cloak is not Cloack. You're not respecting it by continually spelling it incorrectly.
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