@ op

10 cents full cost per kwatt is okay not great but okay

5 cents full cost per kwatt is good.


If I were to sell you a modded s9 designed to not be loud with 2 boards not three. it can be set to do  6 th and 500 watts.

I built 20 or so of these they are okay.

The lowest price on ebay for a loud full power s9 is about 500

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bitcoin-Miner-Bitmain-Antminer-S9i-14TH-s-BTC-Free-US-Shipping-crypto/303240079326?

I can't tell you to buy that as it will be loud.

If I sold you my modded version with braiins firmware for 350 it earns 6 x .36 = $2.16 a day

it burns 500 x 24 = 12 kwatts a day

the math is :

15 cent power 1.80 power cost. 36 cents profit  972 days to break even
14 cent power 1.68 power cost  48 cents profit
13 cent power 1.56 power cost  60 cents profit
12 cent power 1.44 power cost  72 cents profit
11 cent power 1.32 power cost  84 cents profit
10 cent power 1.20 power cost  96 cents profit 364 days to break even
 9 cent power  1.08 power cost  1.08 profit



So I did 9 to 15 cent power using my modded gear.

If you did get the gear on ebay for 500 and maybe would a good psu for 100

you would be at 600 and if heat and sound meant nothing it would do 14 x .36 = 5.04 a day. and burn 1300 x 24 = 32 kwatts a day

so

at 15 cents  4.80 power cost  5.04-4.80 = .24 profit  600/.24 = 2500 days to break even

at 10 cents 3.20 power cost 5.04-3.20 = 1.84 profit  600/1.84 =  326 days to  break even


you would be at 600 and if heat and sound meant nothing it would do 14 x .36 = 8.40 a day. and burn 1300 x 24 = 32 kwatts a day

so
at 15 cents  4.80 power cost  8.40-4.80 = 3.60 profit  600/3.60 = 167 days to break even

at 10 cents 3.20 power cost 8.40-3.20 = 5.20 profit  600/5.20 = 115 days to  break even bad math ignore correct math is above


you need to understand the numbers above for profit can go up or down day by day

that s9 gear is being used as it is cheaper.

If you are over 15 cents a k-watt do not bother

I am not offering to sell you a modded quiet s9

I have zero idea if the ebay seller  I mention is any good.

an s9 runs better on 240 volt circuits when it runs full speed.

but braiins software will allow decent lower clocks to allow lower power use  and run on 120 volts.

Good luck

Just woke up and Doge is pushing 43 cents.

Soo once again you own a huge cloud op
you build all kinds of asic miners on the cheap.

you need 10000 ltc/doge miners to meet the cloud's contracts but you own 15,000 since you make them cheaply

you need 10000 btc or bch miners to meet the cloud's contracts but you own 15,000 since you make them so cheaply


you need 10000 eth miners to meet the cloud's contracts but you own 15000 since you make them so cheaply




China has shorted you power. 

If you run
10000 ltc/doge
10000 btc+bch
10000 eth

which meets the contracts you do not have the power

but turn off some of the btc+bch miners

and add eth or even ltc/doge now that doge is godlike.

and exchange the excess back to btc you make enough btc to cover the contract and you save power.

last I looked
3300 watt s19pro  makes $39.59 at btc
3300 watt s19pro  makes $42.19 at bch
3300 watt linzhi.   makes $284.85 at eth
3300 watts L3+.  makes  $13.44 LTC and $41.44 at doge a total of $54.88 a day


the first choice is turn off 7 s19pros  and turn on 1 extra eth miner. you save 3300 x 6 = 19800 watts.

now bitmain would be nuts not to juggle the gear
they are also nuts to sell much gear to people right now
there is more profit in their cloud.

How long does this last  I have zero idea.

 But when BTC has the 25% drop locked in.
 If bitmain did what I said they may fire up some btc gear since it will make 1.25 btc vs 1.0 btc for a jump.
 I am very interested to see the next jump and how much will come back on line.


 

doge is pushing 41 cents

man I made 60k on it and feel bad cause I sold it too soon. If I held it all it would be 430,000k



Well we are mining it.

last summer we mined about 10000 doge a month worth 0.0033 x 10000 = 33 usd

right now we are mining about 10000 doge a month worth 0.4100 x 10000 = 4100 usd

So if doge grows to a buck it would be 1.00 x 10,000 = 10,000 usd

meanwhile btc diff has dropped off 25%

nice Easy to upgrade it to 1tb.

I was reading that the world has 46-47 million millionaires.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire

To be a millionaire by the definition I found do not count your home you job or your pension.

Count your investable  wealth :

"There are multiple approaches to determining a person's status as a millionaire. One of the two most commonly used measurements is net worth, which counts the total value of all property owned by a household minus the household's debts. According to this definition, a household owning an $800k home, $50k of furnishings, two cars worth $60k, a $60k retirement savings account, $45k in mutual funds, and a $325k vacation home with a $250k mortgage, $40k in car loans, and $25k in credit card debt would be worth about $1,025,000; and every individual in this household would thus be a millionaire. However, according to the net financial assets measurement used for some specific applications (such as evaluating an investor's expected tolerance for risk for stockbroker ethics), equity in one's principal residence is excluded, as are lifestyle assets, such as the car and furniture. Therefore, the above example household would only have net financial assets of $115,000. Another term used is "net investable assets" or working capital. These practitioners may use the term "millionaire" to mean somebody who is free to invest a million units of currency through them as broker. For similar reasons, those who market goods, services and investments to HNWIs are careful to specify a net worth "not counting principal residence". At the end of 2011, there were around 5.1 million HNWIs in the United States,[9] while at the same time there were 11 million millionaires[10] in a total of 3.5 million millionaire households,[11] including those 5.1 million HNWIs"


So I am not there yet.

But if you have only 18 BTC = 1,026,000

My wife and I may get there 1 day.

Just stack your BTC. one day. 18 will not be needed only 9 coins will get you there. 9 x 115,000 = 1,035,000 That day is not far off.  Just stack the BTC and Hodl.

Next 39 hours are critical

Need to be at 60 k by tues 12 noon eastern standard time.

I did grab some so lets hope you are correct.

Noon on Tuesday we will know if this is the beginning of a long drop or if it was simply buy the dip.

I went with buy the dip and got some cheap btc.  51.7k and 52.0k  were my buy points.

Well living in Canada with cooler temps for the summer may work for you.  But trust me voltage sag is a well known factor all over the world..  While you may spec to 120 you will find you range under and over that 120

Since your mining gear psu's can handle more power I don't worry if you drift upwards to 125 or so it is if you drop to

lets see 115 is

115 x 20 x .8 = 1840 and your rigs pull 1890  do that for 1 hot week you will pop breakers.

 but hey your rigs your home your $$.  Check the voltage with this unit or one like it :


https://www.amazon.com/BALDR-Electricity-Monitor-Consumption-Killawatt/dp/B07Y1SLZ8W/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?

it will tell you your volts if you sag under 115 volts you are in the danger zone.

I am interested in your readings in your home.

you said you have a meter.

see if it shows volts with 1 rig attached
see if it show volts with 2 rigs attached.
see if it shows volts with 3 rigs attached. make the last rig have 4 cards so as to not over load the meter.
see if there is a sag.

if you read 121 then 120 then 118 you may have issues in the summer.

btw the k-watt-meters like my like are not meant to run 24/7/365 with watts over 1200 but you can exceed 1800 for a short time like 20 minutes which would let you see if the line sags under load.

You could be in a very well wired area and not get a lot of sag.

I just checked my volts on my 120 lines they are 121.7
I just checked on my 240 lines they are 243.4

It is cool in NJ ,USA so grid is not stressed I tend to run in this level to the heart of the summer. I will be 117 and 234 this summer.

I grabbed this

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-g5-15-6-fhd-gaming-laptop-amd-ryzen-5-8gb-ram-amd-radeon-rx-5600m-256gb-ssd-60hz-red-print-backlit-keyboard-grey/6409419.p?

Its kind of good but not really good.

Makes about 3 day and burns about 3 kwatts a day

Its EOL is too short.

And I think you are looking at the scam website.  Do not buy the gear.

I left of my own accord.

It is tough I got here before other coins. No ltc no eth.

basically Nmc and Btc were merged mined on bitminter.

what has happened is there are many well backed coins.


Btc
ltc-doge
eth

are really well back by strong asic gear. and eth is doubly backed by gpus.

I absolutely know that the pow coins interchange as they all work from the idea of turning power into wealth.

I am tired of BTC max guys.
So I left the thread in btc.

Its not a big deal I tried to lead them to more than one favor of pow coin but they like the one.

For me with our farm we have

Btc,bch
ltc-doge
eth.

we have more power than gear ⚙️ so our goal is find cheap gear. and add it.

I do not care what we get as long as it is a good price.

I than juggle mined coins with my stress on

1)btc
2)cash
3) ltc
4) doge
5) eth


I realized if there are 10,20,30% of people here on bitcointalk that only want to talk btc I should let them do it.

This thread is about any pow and how and why its diff moves up down or sideways.

I can’t fit it into Btc section and I won’t do it anymore.

No one has to think I was forced out of that thread and or section.

I will still post in the btc section on other stuff but not about speculation or if it has too many factors for that section to be comfortable with.

I may occasionally post a link to this thread and give a more inclusive idea then what is acceptable for the other section.

the linzhi is very near eol.


but bitmain has made many eth asic miners innosilicon has made eth asic miners

so we are at a point in mining that builders dont need to sell gear.

they are using it for their own mining purposes.

they get more profit by mining then by sell the gear.

well we moved back up to 56k from 51k.
the 50k floor held.

other coins moved back 🆙.
Doge got over 32 cents today.

all this may have been was a chance to get some cheap coin.

we will have a good idea 💡 of how we stand on tues around noon time eastern standard time.

so next 43 hours are the key 🔑 🤔🤔

they are costly I can get a dell with an amd 5600m for about 825.  uses 112 watts at the wall and makes $3.50 a day

so 250 days to break even  as it would make 875 and burn about 67 dollars in power net of 808

it works with ant miner L3+ asic miners.

ahh runaway TDP you max out the power .   220 vs 120 watts. yeah windows does this.

I have had problems on and off with windows and this issue since 2012

it is 110/120

it is 220/240

power sag happens in summer
power sag happens on high loads

so 120 can sag to 110

240 can sag to 220

if you push a line say a 120 volt 20 amp line with 12 gauge wire running 1890 watts.

it will certainly sag in voltage if you run 24/7/365

but your can can handle a sag to 110


if you push a 240 volt  20 amp line with 12 gauge wire you need to get to over 3780 watts to push it hard as the 120 line above.

My home in the winter is around 242 volts in the main box at the 2 hot lines from the street transformer.
MY home in the summer at  3 pm  on a hot day is around 235 volts in the main box at the 2 hot lines from the street transformer.

if I go to the 240 outlets running the gear in my house in winter maybe 239-241 but in the summer 232-233.

these are typical sag numbers for my house.

So if you run your lines 24/7/365 with the loads you speak of you may find you are undersized in July and August.

My suggestion to upgrade 2 of the 4 lines should work very well for you.

more that eth is way way way better at $ per watt.

and with power becoming higher cost pick you best gear.

some that bch was godlike for a few days.

some that ltc/doge was better than bch was.



so if your power cost alters you drop the lessor coins.

@ fuzzy its cool

I have enough arguments in economics when I try to blend all POW  coins  into my watt  to dollar earnings ratio concept.

I am not going to reveal all my thoughts about why including all POW  coins in difficulty threads is needed.

I am not going to reveal all my thoughts about why I do not like POS COINS.

BUT  my thoughts on what have happened to BTC diff and other diff  are as follows.

Power is the key asset to turn profit.

So watts per hash per earnings translate into dollar per watt.

SO the biggest miner is bitmain.

They run the most gear

They have asics for LTC/DOGE merged mining
They have asics for BTC and or BCH
They have asics for ETH

They get or build them cheaply however you want to explain it. They get bargain prices for the gear.

All facts


So sell cloud mining for LTC ETH and BTC along with BCH-they do
Make good cheap machines-they do


I believe they have excess

LTC/DOGE asics
BTC+BCH asics
ETH asics

if they can raise coin prices and tamp down difficulty they never need to sell their gear they can mine

lets say 144 x 7.25 = 1044 bitcoins every day new and fees

1024x60000 = 62,640,000 a day in BTC wealth

lets say 144 x 6.25+ 5  = 905 a day in BCH or 905,000 a day in BCH wealth

lets say 5.3 mill x 100 x .09 = 47,700,000 a day in ETH wealth

lets say

6.81 x 302300 = 2,058,663 a day in LTC wealth

14,972,094 x .3 = 4,491,628 a day in LTC wealth


so above is about what is mined today in 1 day for all the coins I mention

it adds to 117.79 million a day x 365 is 42,995,281,215

 42 billion a year in new mining coins.  

Why sell gear when carefully  shifting your excess gear always maxes your wealth per watt.


So they sell gear when mining prices crash.  Look at diff raise like mad in 2018 as prices drop.

This cycle someone on their team has figured out by holding back gear and having excess gear for all the cloud ops they can maneuver pricing of coins.

SO before the diff crash due to the coal shortage.

Eth diff went up higher and higher

BTC was flat or close to flat.  

They used 120% eth for every 100% they needed to pay the eth cloud miners off.

The extra 20%eth  was used to buy btc to pay some of the btc cloud miners. this saved them power cost.   remember all their gear is cheap for them so having 120 machines when they need 100 machines is easy for them.

Now we had a huge drop in power in china due to the coal issues .

You are bitmain you are getting power cut backs from the government.

You shut down some btc and turn on excess eth

here

btc 100% of the cloud gear needed   but you have  130%
ltc  100% of the cloud gear needed  but you have  130%
eth 100% of the cloud gear needed  but you have  130%

they have to do a massive shift to cover the power cuts and it is easy to see the pattern now.

but phil why not sell gear.

here is why. they can make a s19pro for under 2k and get 9k so 7k profit.

sell 10 = 70k
sell 100 = 700k
sell 1000 = 7m
sell 10000 = 70m
sell 100000 = 700m
sell 1000000 = 7b  

lets pretend they sell 1 million and turn 7billion profit


So showed at the top of the post there is about 42billion in coins to be mined.  and 1 million s19 units is
110eh so if they sold that much gear.  the network jumps to 160+110 = 270 eh

their 30% share of mining in the cloud drops to 17%

so 17% of 42 is 7.14 billion in mining with 7 billion in sales = 14 billion

or 30% of 42 = 12.6 billion in mining with 0 in sales seems worse to do what I say .

nope they set preorders 6 to 9 months in advance  sell 200000 miners profit 1.4 billion on them.

and they have up front money same profits by selling 200,000 as they do by selling 1,000,000

Yeah that's why I think BTC diff is not growing and ETH is growing.
along with BTC price doing 3x 2017 price and eth only doing 1.6 x 2017 prices.

It is what it is. Not sure how it shakes out in the long run.