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10441  Other / Meta / Re: Is asking for a feedback is wrong on: May 14, 2015, 08:33:40 PM
If someone asks me to leave them positive feedback, after a trade or if they provided me with a service, I almost never do it.

why though? When I buy something on eBay and all goes smoothly, if the seller politely requests feedback, whats the problem? It helps them and their eBay business, I got good service, it is just courteous. I leave honest feedback, good or bad, every time in fact. Having been involved in various businesses in my life, I appreciate the value of customer feedback. I also realize many people aren't really thinking about it, so a polite reminder is no problem to me.

Are you one of those people who refuse to leave a tip in restaurants, on principal alone? No offense, because the choice is entirely yours, but your reply to OP just seems stingy. Fill me in on your logic regarding your use of the feedback system because I can see no harm in a request for feedback after a deal has been done. Are there people only doing trades to inflate their trust rating, hoping to catch bigger fish later on? If so, what good is the trust system anyway?
When you trade with someone on eBay then any feedback that you leave is weighed equally to everyone else's feedback. With the trust system on this forum, certain people's trust ratings are weighed significantly more heavily then others. This means that some people actively seek to trade with people who have this significant trust weight.

Also eBay uses a trade feedback system. This forum uses a trust feedback system  there is a huge difference.
10442  Economy / Invites & Accounts / Re: Your BTC Accounts Manager on: May 14, 2015, 05:28:01 PM
This isn't software lol. It is an excel spreadsheet.
Yes its a excel table with a lot of function to manage you accounts that what i said and that why i put picture to let everyone show what is it exactly
From the looks of it your spreadsheet just keeps track of your various wallets' (addresses) balances. I don't see how that is any different then any wallet software.
10443  Economy / Invites & Accounts / Re: Your BTC Accounts Manager on: May 14, 2015, 05:23:29 PM
This isn't software lol. It is an excel spreadsheet.
10444  Economy / Lending / Re: [ Junior ] Need $1 btc no collateral .. on: May 14, 2015, 05:17:03 PM
What do you need  this $1 for? Because there are not many important things you could get for that amount.

for buying some stuff .. .

This is either a confidence loan or a gambling loan. Either way I would say away from this "opportunity"
10445  Other / Meta / Re: I dont pay loan but guy take collateral worth 3 times more and call me scammer on: May 14, 2015, 05:10:59 PM
I think he is saying that he should not be labeled a scammer. He doesn't appear to be complaining about loosing the value of his collateral.
10446  Other / Meta / Re: scammer gave me a Negative trust because He Defaulted in loan on: May 14, 2015, 03:46:24 PM
It seems that the OP somehow knew that BitcoinBoss666 was an alt of the person who took out the loan, so he gave him negative trust ~a week ago. Then BitcoinBoss666 saw the trust and didn't like it so he left a negative on the OP saying that even though he defaulted the collateral was worth much more then the loan amount so he should not be labeled a scammer. (The fact that you cannot give any kind of trust rebuttal or response is a flaw in the trust system).

I don't think anyone got scammed here. The OP gave a loan for .1 but got .3 worth of collateral. He profits regardless if the loan is repaid. BitcoinBoss666 consented to giving his account as collateral for the .1 loan and when his gambling strategy didn't work out he lost his account (this is pretty clearly a gambling loan).

I don't think the trust given to the OP was calling him a scammer but was rather giving a rebuttal to the rating that was left on his trust profile.

IMO, if a rebuttal or a response could be left then we would probably see less retaliatory feedback left and would probably see less drama regarding the trust system (but maybe not very much less).

I shouldnt gave him a Neg trust so that he can SCAM Others too?
I never scam nobody. You earn +200% on this loan and you call it scam? What is wrong with you?

You defaulted a loan. Isn't that a scam? When you took the loan, the value of the account was somewhat same but after it became Sr. Member, the value increased and you aren't scammer and you want the account back?

Senior account worth 0.1 ? you really joke. This account is worth min 0.3BTC. You earn 0.2BTC on this loan and call me scammer? What the hell is wrong with you?

You are a scammer because you didn't repay the loan.  Not difficult to understand.

This is interesting.  In an extreme case, if someone hypothetically provided 10x collateral on a loan and defaulted, you would label them a scammer?  

I would've assumed the collateral is part of the "deal" such that, whether or not the original loan amount is repaid, the lender is satisfied (else the conditions of collateral wouldn't be agreed to).

The defaulted borrower deceived irfan_pak10 for his financial gain. So he is a scammer.
This was pretty clear that this was a gambling loan (there is no other reason to borrow such a small amount lol). I don't think it is his fault that he lost/busted/ect. The OP still profited from the deal. In order to be a scammer you need to either steal property from someone or try to steal property from someone. Who did he steal from? Please note that the OP ended up with more property then he started with.

But... When he took the loan, the value of the account was somewhat same but after it became Sr. Member, the value increased. Then telling he isn't a scammer because Irfan got more than he gave doesn't make sense. Scam doesn't mean "stealing", it means deceiving a person for financial/personal gain
Okay so say the value is the same. The lender would still profit.

When altcoins are used as collateral a standard condition is that if the value of the altcoins falls below a certain threshold then they can be sold to cover the amount of the loan. I would say that often the borrower would not technically pay back the loan in those cases however they would not be a scammer.

There is not even a case of deception here. I assume the loan agreement to be something along the lines of the borrows will repay a certain amount by a certain date, and if this does not happen then the collateral will become the property of the lender.

I would restate my offer to make the OP "whole" by reimbursing the amount he was "scammed" aka the repayment amount if he is willing to give me the account (assuming he has a signed message). 
10447  Other / Meta / Re: scammer gave me a Negative trust because He Defaulted in loan on: May 14, 2015, 03:34:11 PM
It seems that the OP somehow knew that BitcoinBoss666 was an alt of the person who took out the loan, so he gave him negative trust ~a week ago. Then BitcoinBoss666 saw the trust and didn't like it so he left a negative on the OP saying that even though he defaulted the collateral was worth much more then the loan amount so he should not be labeled a scammer. (The fact that you cannot give any kind of trust rebuttal or response is a flaw in the trust system).

I don't think anyone got scammed here. The OP gave a loan for .1 but got .3 worth of collateral. He profits regardless if the loan is repaid. BitcoinBoss666 consented to giving his account as collateral for the .1 loan and when his gambling strategy didn't work out he lost his account (this is pretty clearly a gambling loan).

I don't think the trust given to the OP was calling him a scammer but was rather giving a rebuttal to the rating that was left on his trust profile.

IMO, if a rebuttal or a response could be left then we would probably see less retaliatory feedback left and would probably see less drama regarding the trust system (but maybe not very much less).

I shouldnt gave him a Neg trust so that he can SCAM Others too?
Who did he scam? He took out a loan and you ended up with something that is worth triple the amount you lent.

If you got a signed message from the OP to confirm ownership and you *really* feel scammed then I'll cover his loan, however I will need you to give me the collateral you received.
10448  Other / Meta / Re: scammer gave me a Negative trust because He Defaulted in loan on: May 14, 2015, 03:31:26 PM
Senior account worth 0.1 ? you really joke. This account is worth min 0.3BTC. You earn 0.2BTC on this loan and call me scammer? What the hell is wrong with you?

You are a scammer because you didn't repay the loan.  Not difficult to understand.

This is interesting.  In an extreme case, if someone hypothetically provided 10x collateral on a loan and defaulted, you would label them a scammer? 

I would've assumed the collateral is part of the "deal" such that, whether or not the original loan amount is repaid, the lender is satisfied (else the conditions of collateral wouldn't be agreed to).

The defaulted borrower deceived irfan_pak10 for his financial gain. So he is a scammer.
This was pretty clear that this was a gambling loan (there is no other reason to borrow such a small amount lol). I don't think it is his fault that he lost/busted/ect. The OP still profited from the deal. In order to be a scammer you need to either steal property from someone or try to steal property from someone. Who did he steal from? Please note that the OP ended up with more property then he started with.

Quote

You are a scammer because you didn't repay the loan.  Not difficult to understand.
Yea im scammer becouse he earn 0.2BTC on this loan. Good job. That why he get collateral worth 300%, and now he call me scammer. If i take loan without collateral he can call me scammer. But he earn 300% on this loan !
It's not how much the collateral is worth. You should have asked more BTC or gave less valuable collateral or at least pay him promptly. Note that, the account was Full Member when he used it as collateral. You didn't pay on time and now asking the account realizing it became Sr. Member and is more valuable. Go away!
What a bullshit. I know my account will be senior in 10 days after i take loan. And i even type in in request. He earn 300% on this loan and you call me scammers. Nice forums and nice members.

You didn't pay the loan and now asking the collateral back realizing the value? You should have repaid the loan if you don't want to loose this account. You are calling him a scammer because he was lucky to get a 300% collateral? Lender become the owner of collateral if the loan is defaulted. You should really learn more.

 -snip-
I know he is owner of this account now you dont need to teach me. And he tell my account worth 0.1btc that why i want it back becouse this is bullshit. He will earn this 0.1 in 2 weeks from signature campaign.

He can do whatever with that account. None of your concern.
10449  Other / Meta / Re: scammer gave me a Negative trust because He Defaulted in loan on: May 14, 2015, 03:20:12 PM
It seems that the OP somehow knew that BitcoinBoss666 was an alt of the person who took out the loan, so he gave him negative trust ~a week ago. Then BitcoinBoss666 saw the trust and didn't like it so he left a negative on the OP saying that even though he defaulted the collateral was worth much more then the loan amount so he should not be labeled a scammer. (The fact that you cannot give any kind of trust rebuttal or response is a flaw in the trust system).

I don't think anyone got scammed here. The OP gave a loan for .1 but got .3 worth of collateral. He profits regardless if the loan is repaid. BitcoinBoss666 consented to giving his account as collateral for the .1 loan and when his gambling strategy didn't work out he lost his account (this is pretty clearly a gambling loan).

I don't think the trust given to the OP was calling him a scammer but was rather giving a rebuttal to the rating that was left on his trust profile.

IMO, if a rebuttal or a response could be left then we would probably see less retaliatory feedback left and would probably see less drama regarding the trust system (but maybe not very much less).
10450  Other / Meta / Re: Clear abuse of DefaultTrust by Vod on: May 14, 2015, 01:59:00 PM
I came across their thread a few times and didn't give them negative trust.

Is that the new standard of trust now?   Wink


No. I am just pointing out that I previously looked into them and didn't think they would be a scam.

From the looks of it they chose their name poorly however I don't think they are the same as other ponzis as the rounds are scheduled to end at a certain time so you need to have enough people invested after you in order for you to not lose.

Although thinking about it a little bit, this does sound a little but like weekly ponzi which was run by scammer James Volpe aka TheGambler aka moreia so maybe it should be looked into to see if the OP,  is an alt of him. Otherwise they are really no different then any other Bitcoin casino but with a somewhat non traditional name.
10451  Other / Archival / Re: Signature campaign on: May 14, 2015, 01:48:37 PM
How much are you paying?
10452  Other / Meta / Re: Clear abuse of DefaultTrust by Vod on: May 14, 2015, 01:39:25 PM
Every ponzi runner gets neg trust, and Vod does it so that other people dont fall into the scam.

Exactly, I don't do it to piss people off, I do it to protect newbies who may believe the OP's words that his ponzi is different and he is not in a position to steal coins.

I didn't need to write your code to know how you would scam.  During a period of heavy deposits, a "hack" would occur that would stop all withdrawals.  You would disappear with as many coins as you could.   Undecided

I'd have more compassion for you if you weren't operating on a throw away account.
Couldn't you say the same thing about any casino?

It looks like their thread is in games and rounds (and not the ponzi section).

I came across their thread a few times and didn't give them negative trust.
10453  Economy / Auctions / Re: 2013 Lealana 1 BTC Silver + Gold Hologram MS-68 [Funded][Ends May 15 4PM EST] on: May 14, 2015, 01:06:54 PM
1.26 BTC
I have spoken to Fruitmandje and have agreed to accept his bid.

Auction ends tomorrow at 4:00 PM eastern time.

An ungraded similar coin recently sold for 1.75BTC and this is only one of three lealana MS-68 coins known to me. It grading this high makes it very rare  Shocked
10454  Other / Meta / Re: [ moderators ]Will I be Banned again..?? [ moderators ] on: May 14, 2015, 05:33:31 AM
it has been 30 days after my ban ..
still i am banned..


have i done such a mistake that my my ban prevails yet??

moderators please let me know...

thankyou


vishwaratna
I just told you that you should wait 90 days. If it has been 30 days then wait another 60. You are more then welcome to browse the forum and read about what interests you while you are still banned (you are just not allowed to post outside of meta and cannot post regarding anything other then to appeal your ban).

]after 60 more days will i get my original my name bearing account back??[/b][/size]
Stop fucking writing in huge fonts as it this is very annoying.

I cannot make any promises, and I am not going to be the one who makes the decision for this. However, if you were to not evade your ban for a "long time" and don't otherwise cause problems in a 'good' amount of time then I would say that the chances of your previous accounts of getting unbanned if you ask nicely would be "good".
10455  Other / Meta / Re: [ moderators ]Will I be Banned again..?? [ moderators ] on: May 14, 2015, 05:21:08 AM
it has been 30 days after my ban ..
still i am banned..


have i done such a mistake that my my ban prevails yet??

moderators please let me know...

thankyou


vishwaratna
I just told you that you should wait 90 days. If it has been 30 days then wait another 60. You are more then welcome to browse the forum and read about what interests you while you are still banned (you are just not allowed to post outside of meta and cannot post regarding anything other then to appeal your ban).
10456  Economy / Lending / Re: 2nd Loan Posted On BTCJam - Good ROI - 60 Day - First Loan Paid 2 Weeks Early on: May 14, 2015, 05:13:34 AM
I am just confused on why people think I am asking for a loan through this site. I am directing a link to BTCJam. All my loans are done through that platform, and this post only applies to those who use that system, and trust that system. So I am just confused on why people are trying to relate that to asking for a loan through this website which is not the case. I'm merely posting a link in which a loan is done in an entirely different place in which that platform has its own policies for late payments/ no payments etc.
If you were to post from your "primary" account then it would theoretically possible that things would be different.

Why don't you post from your "main" account?
10457  Economy / Services / Re: [BIT-X.com] Earn Bitcoins by Posting | Signature Campaign on: May 14, 2015, 05:02:40 AM
What do you guys want to see in the new campaign, apart from new signatures of course? I'm happy with how it's running right now.
Higher payments for the people who you give custom deals to Wink

especially those who are about to expire
10458  Other / Meta / Re: Bitcointalk account on: May 14, 2015, 04:56:46 AM
Well, you may be right about the cost-benefit analysis of QS neg-repping to increase account prices.  But I don't believe that the conflict of interest has to be the sole motivation for someone in order for that conflict of interest to be valid.  COI's are black and white, people may or may not act on them but keeping black-and-white COIs out of default trust seems like it would be important (to me).

Just a thought, but applying the same argument (COI) to you would lead to the conclusion that discussing whether or not QS should be on DT should not be a viable thing. You have a conflict of interest because you directly benefit from their removal from DT. I dont actually think that its a valid point, but I had to put it out there.
Of course you're correct that nothing is completely black-and-white.  But I still disagree with your application of COI in this case.  Assume everyone has an interest in protecting themself.  That's fine.  COI is usually restricted to clear cases where someone is getting paid by two opposing interests.  This isn't the case if I argue that QS should be removed from default trust.  Yes, I have an interest in having him removed because he has nefariously slandered me, but I don't have any conflicting interest where say, I'm working for him or something. 
-snip-
Yes you do. The value of your spam account would increase in the event that my negative trust rating would go away because I am removed from the default trust network. You would also expect to have a higher signature spam campaign revenue as a result of my ratings not showing up as default.

Quote from: shorena
I dont think anything is black and white. *resist 50 shades of grey joke*. I think someone can be gradually conflicted in their interest. The person in question might also not be aware of their bias. A healthy discussion whether or not someone is biased and their ratings are affected is important IMHO. Whether this leads to a conclusion or not is something else.

I agree, but sometimes the evidence isn't even there at all.  In my own case, QS's "evidence" was merely the fact that a known scammer accused me years ago.  In any case, I wonder if you'd be feeling any differently if you had to wear a large WARNING on your account (which I know you've had for years because you and I started on this forum around the same time) just because someone got angry at you.

Well, yes the conclusion is very shaky IMHO. Thats what I wrote in your thread as well. For me there is not enough to label you as a scammer. I know that I would be angry about a person leaving injust feedback. I had (and still have) that issue with TradeFortress. Your situation is certainly different though, because QS does not have a trust score of -6000, but just because I understand your motivation or situation does not mean that I agree with your conclusion. When I look at your rating I will be reminded that was an argument in the past and you may or may not have used to bot to gain an advantage. This would barely influence my behaviour when doing business with you. In case of a loan your account has certainly less value, same as if you wanted to sell it. I understand that signature campaign managers are very picky about these things and I honestly dont understand it most of the time. Its either laziness or they are afraid of the imagine problem it might cause if someone "bad" advertises for them.
Please see Blazr's post in the thread that tspacepilot locked censored, to both prevent people from disagreeing with his viewpoint and allow him to claim victory (when this is not the case) in an argument. His post essentially says that tspacepilot essentially admits to breaking the rules of coinchat (by blazr's own conclusion - and not relying on any of TF's statements). Just because he scammed what turned out to be a scammer and what turned out to be an extortionist does not mean that what he did was okay.

If you want Bitcoin to succeed over the long run, then you will need to be blind to the fact that someone has scammed in the past or that someone is a scammer when deciding if you are going to be honest with such person (if someone is a scammer then you should still take the appropriate precautions to protect yourself from being scammed). I can say that who is probably the most reputable person on the forum (tomatocage) has refunded/released escrow to scammers a number of times in order to protect the interrogatory of the marketplace on the forum, I can also say that I have done the same and that anyone who will not honor their escrow contract with a scammer is themselves a scammer.

Regarding da dice overlooking the fact that tspacepilot is a scammer/spammer - the fact that they are paying him to advertise their website has caused me to withhold my business with them which is significant, it has also caused me to withhold my recommendation of playing at their site when asked the general question as to if I recommend playing at their site, and the outright recommendation against playing at their site when asked, all due to the fact that they willingly and knowingly choose to associate with a scammer.
10459  Other / Meta / Re: Bitcointalk account on: May 14, 2015, 04:26:40 AM
-snip-
Of course you're correct that nothing is completely black-and-white.  But I still disagree with your application of COI in this case.  Assume everyone has an interest in protecting themself.  That's fine.  COI is usually restricted to clear cases where someone is getting paid by two opposing interests.  This isn't the case if I argue that QS should be removed from default trust.  Yes, I have an interest in having him removed because he has nefariously slandered me, but I don't have any conflicting interest where say, I'm working for him or something.  The idea in conflict of interest assertions is that two forces which are logically in opposition---the most classic case is regulators with ties those they regulate, another is say, wikipedia editors and CEOs of businesses (when the CEO of a business tries to edit the wikipedia article on his business); in those cases there's a clear conflict (CEOs have an obligation to promote their business' image; wp editors have an obligation to present things as objectively as possible).  Imagine a case where a father is a regulator for coal industry and his son is the president of a coal mining company.  Perhaps the father is ethically fulfilling his role as a regulator and shuts down his son's business without prejudice when it crosses some legal line, but perhaps not.  My point is that conflict of interests don't necessarily lead to wrongdoing, someone may or may not succumb to them, but that they should be avoided when they are obvious.  Thus, many people would object to father-son regulator-regulatee pairs at the outset.  I think the same holds true with account-sellers and default trusters.  The default trusters have an obligation to be just in neg-repping accounts, account sellers have an obligation to their own profit.  Theirs a clear line connecting neg-repping of accounts to more profit for account sellers thus the conflict of interest exists.

Alright, I think we can agree that QS has a conflict of interest. My understanding of COI was indeed a bit off. I personally dont think they misuse their position on DT for their personal gain from selling accounts.  
No.

First of all, wikipedia is not considered to be a reliable source in the educational world, in the professional world, in the media world, or pretty much anywhere. The fact that people cite wikipedia as often as they do on here baffles me. Secondly, wikipedia entries cannot come from firsthand knowledge, they must be from researched sources......meaning that just because I fake being sick to get out of going to school on 9/11 (2001), and as a result was able to personally witness the twin towers collapse a mere blocks from where I was standing at age 16, does not mean that I can write that the World Trade Center towers collapsed on 9/11 in a wikipedia article, I would need to find a news (or other) source that says that the WTC towers collapsed, and cite those sources in order for me to publish that fact.

Additionally, it is generally considered to be acceptable to receive a small financial benefit as a(n) (indirect) result of a relationship with you being in a position of authority and the other person being a vendor, customer, or employee. It is generally within the boundaries of the code of ethics of most large companies for someone of authority to receive/accept up to between $25 and $200 (with ~$100 being both the mode and mean acceptable amount) worth of gifts without approval from the ethics board and without violating the code of ethics. In my experience, the limit is on a per customer/vender/employee basis, meaning that I can receive up to $100 worth of gifts from each employee/customer/vendor that I oversee/make decisions regarding. The exemptions to this limit tend to increase as your level of responsibility increases (for example congressmen are able to accept up to $3,000 per campaign cycle in campaign contributions from each person, in addition to other things).

I think it is fair to say that I have received an additional benefit of less then $100 (worth of bitcoin) as a (hypothetical) result (which is likely an invalid conclusion that prices rise as a result of scammer accounts getting tagged as scammers) of me giving negative trust to scammer accounts (tspacepilot for example) on a per customer basis - the price of bitcoin is currently ~$235/BTC which would mean the price of an account would need to rise by ~.42 BTC in order for the above $100 threshold to be breached while senior accounts have generally been selling for barely .3 BTC recently, and heros have barely been selling for .7 BTC recently (I don't think anyone will be able to provide evidence that over 60% of the value of hero accounts is the result of my negative repping scammers).

Additionally, it is common for respected members of various markets to call out scams in their markets. Stunna, for example has been accused to accusing gambling sites of being a scam a number of times (when they turned out to be a scam) in order to hurt his competition; however his ultimate goal was to prevent people from being able to scam in the first place and as a result raising confidence in his industry; this is actually something that I have discussed with him a number of times. Just because you call a competitor of yours a scam does not mean you are trying to quash the competition, as if you were to end up being wrong then your reputation will suffer over the long run. The purpose of pointing out scams in your industry/market is to ensure that people feel safe when dealing in your market/industry.

All of the above ignores the fact that I am no longer in the account selling market and have not been for several months now. I no longer am holding any inventory. The only time I would hold any accounts at all would be either for escrow or for me acting as an agent to a third party (which would actually harm me because I would need to purchase accounts at a higher price on behalf of someone else).
10460  Other / Meta / Re: Selling Bitcointalk Trust - which subforum to use? on: May 14, 2015, 02:58:04 AM
Who says that no default trust accounts have never been sold?

I can tell you for sure that this account was on default trust when it was sold; I got it removed once it tried to participate in a scam. I can also say with a good amount of certainty that it was purchased for roughly 2.5 btc and probably was able to scam for roughly zero.

Apparently I did not think this through in my thought experiment. Maybe because I would consider the sale in that manner a scam already. I dont see it as enabling someone to scam, but a scam in itself. It would be deceiving towards those that put trust into me as the holder of the account. A sale without proper precautions would be to misuse the trust.

I find it fascinating thought that buying an account for the purpose of scamming does not seem to ROI.


There's no actual evidence here whether it does or doesn't.  This is the usual QS masterbation story, he's linking us to a thread in which he follows up on a Stunna accusation and takes credit for it in order to inflate his ego.  It's anecdotal at best, and given that all QS anecdotes are about how great he is in his own eyes, it's certainaly a questionable anecdote w.r.t. facts.
Yes there is. I know exactly how much the person was willing to pay for the default trust account, I know with a reasonable amount of certainty how much they were able to scam players/investors and I know with a reasonable about of certainty how much the accounts are worth now that the scam was uncovered.

I am fairly certain that there are few default trust accounts that are sold (or whose owners are considering selling their accounts) - (this is especially true now that CITM has been removed from level 1 default trust), however I can probably point to a pretty good number of default trust account sales as well as am aware of a good number of default trust accounts that may potentially be for sale, however it will be kept a secret because well a) it is none of anyone's business and b) people have incentives not to try to scam with these accounts because the potential for profit is low, the chances of success is low and the potential for loss is high, which makes an overall very bad risk profile.

As of the time that I pointed out that the account in question was purchased with the intent of scamming, no one was the wiser as to the above fact. I know that you cannot point to any post implying that the account in question was a scammer account that was made prior to me opening my scam accusation
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