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10701  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Anybody notice the 100btc transaction fee on 27th April? on: May 01, 2015, 05:43:13 PM
-snip-
Well wouldn't this be essentially be robbing the miners who are mining on their pool? My understanding of a pool's relationship with the mining utilizating their pool is that the pool is to distribute all of the mining revenue (including tx fees) to all of the miners with the amounts being distributed being based on the payout method. Just because someone makes a mistake in creating a transaction does not mean that the miners are not entitled to all of their income.

Although it is very clear in this case that the size of the TX fee was a mistake, it is difficult to draw the line between TX fee that is intended to get the transaction confirmed quickly and an erroneous transaction. As per the Bitcoin protocol the transaction was valid so IMO the sender should bear the cost of their mistake, be held accountable, and learn their lesson.

Firstly this was not an user mistake. The user in question "uncovered" a bug the worst way possible, by having to face its problematic issues. According to reddit they have been issued a 25 BTC bug bounty on top of the returned payment. It apparently was an overflow[1] in the BitGo API.

Most pools act in a similar fashion when a mistake happens and yes this happens quite often. Several times a year I think. This is probably something pools should have in their ToS if they have any. I think its the morally correct thing to do and returning the fee is an overall win for BinMain, just see the reactions in this thread and how it affected their public stance. Now imagine they would have kept the funds. I think its very likely that many miners would have changed the pool even though they profited from the "mistake".


[1] https://np.reddit.com/comments/33u8vq//cqofrit
Well the term "user" is being used in respect to to the fact that someone somehow caused a tx to be signed and broadcast that included such large fee. The fact that a program had a "bug" verses a user erroneously somehow manually created such transaction is a moot point IMO.

There are legit reasons why someone would want to include a large (although probably not this large) tx fee when a large tx fee is not necessary per current standards, examples would include when a loan is due by a certain block number, there is an unusually large number of unconfirmed txs in the mempool, an usually long time between blocks at a given point in time (this would go hand in hand with a large number of unconfirmed txs), your private keys are compromised by someone with a large amount of mining power (even if nodes would reject a double spend tx, as long as the tx is unconfirmed they can include a double spend in a block they find), other miscellaneous reasons to want to double spend an unconfirmed tx among other reasons.

I would agree that pools should include in their TOS that under a strict set of guidelines that an erroneous TX fee will be returned to the spender. I also agree that this positively affects bitmain's public reputation.

One addition problem that returning funds causes is that it is difficult to know where to return the funds to. I believe in this case there was only one output address (eg no change address) although most of the time this will not be the case (and in some cases there may be more then two outputs for a variety of reasons). Add this to the fact that the "sending" address cannot always be reasonably determined by looking at the blockchain, and even when you think you can accurately determine the "sending" address you will be incorrect (although I believe this to be very rare).

Above the above issues you have the fact that a "receiving" address would only benefit someone for a certain period of time. One example of this is bitmixer - I believe they only agree to forward funds to their customers that are received within a certain amount of time, and if a pool were to send funds after this time has expired then they might not receive benefit from funds being returned anyway.

While I think in the vast majority of cases it is appropriate to return excess funds that you were not owed, I think there are too many unknowns when dealing with a pool in this regard.

also a lot of the people posting here don't actually have an option, they are just spamming their signatures
10702  Economy / Lending / Re: Looking for 0.3 BTC loan on: May 01, 2015, 04:23:20 PM
I am good with using you for escrow...I will pay the fee, will just wait for rony to confirm he is OK with that.
Below is what I understand to be the terms of the loan:
Loan amount: 0.2 BTC
Amount to be received by borrower: .1975
Amount to be received by escrow: .0075
Payback amount: 0.22 BTC
Payback date: Fri, May 15th
BTC address for borrower: 1Ch8fHiCYw3wAeonSWfRSDrYb5WrcfbsEt
BTC address to send escrow payment to: 1NqbGhQ38UxDnSwhXr9ZaN7BD7z3McdBkd
Collateral: my account (meat)
Lender: rony_90
I would still need to know if the lender is going to require a signed message (if so then please sign the following message and include a link to the post it was previously posted):
Code:
this is meat taking a loan from rony_90 in the amount of .2 BTC and I understand if the loan is not repaid in full by May 16 2015 my account will become the property of the lender today is May 1 2015 and this is in reference to the thread posted https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1039665.0
If all parties agree to this then please confirm and once everyone confirms meat can PM me his password (I will change it back to what you provide after you repay the loan)
10703  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: pagalwana - Alt of superSTAR777 on: May 01, 2015, 04:18:28 PM
More alts:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=379413
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=490361

You should add them in the op, and pm a trusted member to neg rep them. The funny thing is that most of alts of pagalwana have done a lot of trades with irfanpak , and even then Quickseller chose to remove pagalwanas trust, and didn't bother considering my case.

pagalwana was taken over by infran_pak when it defaulted on the loan, so any alts of pagalwana that is derived from posting history after the date of the OP would not be an alt of superSTAR777, they would be an alt of whoever purchased it from the lender.

If an address was posted prior to the date of the OP then it would be a likely alt of superSTAR777
10704  Economy / Lending / Re: Looking for 0.3 BTC loan on: May 01, 2015, 04:09:49 PM
Amount: 0.30 BTC
Interest: 10%
Length: 2 weeks
Collateral: None (can offer my account as collateral if necessary but depending on lender may request escrow for this)
Addy: 1Ch8fHiCYw3wAeonSWfRSDrYb5WrcfbsEt


Can provide proof of account ownership with above address

I can lend you 0.2 if you can put your account as collateral. Good enough? If interested please reply or PM me Smiley

I was able to secure 0.1 elsewhere and am accepting this 0.2 loan from rony

Loan amount: 0.2 BTC
Payback amount: 0.22 BTC
Payback date: Fri, May 15th
BTC address: 1Ch8fHiCYw3wAeonSWfRSDrYb5WrcfbsEt
Collateral: my account...we need an escrow for this
If you have an outstanding loan with someone else then it would probably not be a smart idea for a lender to accept your account as collateral as doing so would essentially pledge the loan amount he is giving plus the unsecured amount as if the no collateral loan is not paid then the account would likely receive negative trust.

The 0.1 is not from this forum...it's from a friend IRL and I don't even have a timeframe I need to repay...he just asked I return it whenever I can.
Fair enough. I would be able to escrow if it is still needed. My fee is .0075 BTC. If you want to use me then please work out if the lender is going to require a signed message and let me know.
10705  Economy / Lending / Re: Looking for 0.3 BTC loan on: May 01, 2015, 04:02:51 PM
Amount: 0.30 BTC
Interest: 10%
Length: 2 weeks
Collateral: None (can offer my account as collateral if necessary but depending on lender may request escrow for this)
Addy: 1Ch8fHiCYw3wAeonSWfRSDrYb5WrcfbsEt


Can provide proof of account ownership with above address

I can lend you 0.2 if you can put your account as collateral. Good enough? If interested please reply or PM me Smiley

I was able to secure 0.1 elsewhere and am accepting this 0.2 loan from rony

Loan amount: 0.2 BTC
Payback amount: 0.22 BTC
Payback date: Fri, May 15th
BTC address: 1Ch8fHiCYw3wAeonSWfRSDrYb5WrcfbsEt
Collateral: my account...we need an escrow for this
If you have an outstanding loan with someone else then it would probably not be a smart idea for a lender to accept your account as collateral as doing so would essentially pledge the loan amount he is giving plus the unsecured amount as if the no collateral loan is not paid then the account would likely receive negative trust.
10706  Economy / Lending / Re: Quickseller Short Term Loans, up to 15 [btc] available [collateral] on: May 01, 2015, 02:32:18 PM
New loan request as per pm.


Amount: 1 btc
Repay: 1.2 btc
Repay 08th of Mai or before.
Collateral: This account

Please send 1 btc to: 1HwYCNDJEp5CtgAC688hNYWSTTBcTNvLw4


Approved

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

This is quickseller from bitcointalk today is april 26 2015

The loan to IronMarvel has been funded via TXID 6c7ed108ec7f0c858d311a359f78ba1fc6143f8db34b0fa01f2e6e34f03462c5


Please repay 1.2 BTC to  1BFWwYhpA4Zp5pXKok2xTY5zAWqjbHRA6y by May 8 2015

A output of .01 BTC was sent to the above address as part of the TX that funded the loan.

Thank you.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJVPRqzAAoJEFMt0pDwvrUWiEYH/RCVb2C9rykhKIB49ugdJ4lP
UpU30M3tGY4Q8K9gPdjINv04fp1zV8xX+nezkJSlatmydU9L3XIkH5fB6r1gqH2q
IJrHIwPlTwOO2l7sSt80NHWDghn6z0AVKB9i7Rg+jZfkJxb2mJnrT/ciGCo9vrg5
gCVpfKzUuduyojHU7hV+gHUkMaivLvdaN/xx7qfas6xd2qYaqttV+5zWU54zu3Mq
8RpVJ+qAZJciL9rCJaxeW2hsewD7Rxm/HgIj96Rh1BX5MCsPmO/D1ZHCA1bz4zq1
aADvG+fOh1tPZX53aEOglm/QhWjoZNPXQl6ApQiPzPGoy7rOuVAXEpqhJreJ20s=
=FyaF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



Loan repaid. Received collateral back.
Thank you
Thanks for repaying early. Have a great weekend!
10707  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [WTS] "Culture Cultivation" Bitcoin Art Piece on: May 01, 2015, 01:26:20 PM
I somewhat doubt you will have a very easy time selling anything that woodcollector produced. There is just too much controversy around his work. Not only that but the fact that there is really no guarantee that only one was created considering that they were likely made with automation with a laser.

I had one person looking to trade their wood art by WC for some of my lealana brass and they were asking to trade it for maybe ~.35 worth of coins based on my asking price. I'm pretty sure they paid considerably more for it.

GLWS, I am interested to see how much this would sell for, if at all.
10708  Other / Meta / Re: The forum has a bug. on: May 01, 2015, 01:08:26 PM
I think you can only attempt to reset one password per 45 second period (based on IP address). So unless you have access to a large number of IP addresses then this would probably not actually work.

I know the SMF forums, you don't need more than 1 ip. And the developers don't think that it is a bug XD.
Well considering that you are asking for ~$1.60 worth of Bitcoin, I somewhat doubt that you have put any kind of effort into this.

It honestly sounds more like a donation scam to me.
10709  Other / Meta / Re: The forum has a bug. on: May 01, 2015, 01:00:05 PM
I think you can only attempt to reset one password per 45 second period (based on IP address). So unless you have access to a large number of IP addresses then this would probably not actually work.
10710  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Anybody notice the 100btc transaction fee on 27th April? on: May 01, 2015, 12:43:58 PM
Damn! that is harsh and very very big issue .
It's nice to see that the fee will be returned but that really scares the shit out of me .
I will not touch the custom fee adding function ever
Same here. Its really great of bitman to work out with the guy to get most of his money back, even though it was not their error. See we have some good people left in bitcoin!
Well wouldn't this be essentially be robbing the miners who are mining on their pool? My understanding of a pool's relationship with the mining utilizating their pool is that the pool is to distribute all of the mining revenue (including tx fees) to all of the miners with the amounts being distributed being based on the payout method. Just because someone makes a mistake in creating a transaction does not mean that the miners are not entitled to all of their income.

Although it is very clear in this case that the size of the TX fee was a mistake, it is difficult to draw the line between TX fee that is intended to get the transaction confirmed quickly and an erroneous transaction. As per the Bitcoin protocol the transaction was valid so IMO the sender should bear the cost of their mistake, be held accountable, and learn their lesson.
10711  Other / Meta / Re: Newbie PM warning on: May 01, 2015, 05:04:18 AM
I like this idea, although I do see one flaw that may actually make it more difficult to find/out scammers (that I sent a PM amount).

I have gotten a pretty good number of these newbie imposter scammers, and they have pretty much all been blatantly obvious, at least to me.
10712  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Dishonest Trust Feedback & False Scam Accusations (By Vod) on: April 30, 2015, 08:16:37 PM
I am not sure what the problem is. You admit to scamming in the negative trust you left for Vod.

I see that there are no current claims of your codes not working in your thread however that doesn't mean that he has not received such claims via other methods.
10713  Other / Archival / Re: Quickseller accuses me without proof!? on: April 30, 2015, 07:45:14 PM
If the OP wants to publicly deny that he is an alt of worhipper as I claimed in my trust report then I will post proof on the condition that he agrees to drop/lock all threads he has opened against me once I post proof.

If the OP wants to admit that he is in fact an alt of worhipper then there is no point to this thread and he can lock it.

If the OP refuses to do either of the above then well, I guess that is that.

since I do not this person's RL identity, I labeled him as being an alt of his handle that I know to have attempted to scam.
10714  Other / Archival / Re: Quickseller accuses me without proof!? on: April 30, 2015, 07:22:00 PM
How is this post strengthening your arguement? I couldn't just accept your outlandish accusation like that. I don't see any arguement posed by you in the first place.
My arguement against your other account. My claim on this this account is that you are an alt of worhipper which you are.

There is really no reason to post from two different accounts making the exact same claim against you.

I don't see any reason to post further on this thread as your other thread is just as pointless.
10715  Other / Archival / Re: Quickseller accuses me without proof!? on: April 30, 2015, 07:07:15 PM
You are his alt and I have proof. The fact that you are denying that you are his alt only strengthens my arguement

/thread

Hi!

I just logged in my account some time ago to see this.

I thought that only admins had access to IP logs. Nevertheless, I've never used his service. I don't know what the point behind this accusation is nor how he could back his claims.
10716  Other / Meta / Re: meta section being used by trolls and sig spammers. on: April 30, 2015, 05:33:06 PM
I think the forum should tighten up its policy on moderating meta a little bit. Sure there should be a little extra room to complain about forum policy/moderation a little bit however there should be a limit to how far people can go especially when they are just outright in the wrong.
10717  Economy / Lending / Re: Need loan .2btc No Collateral on: April 30, 2015, 02:18:31 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This is quickseller from bitcointalk today is April 30 2015

I confirm I control the account waterpile

Please send the escrow fee to the below address 19maepyJ6sEsuqAsVTbmyLt3LMpEVSXorS

It is now safe to fund the loan

Thanks
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEVAwUBVUI2YlMt0pDwvrUWAQJ+mgf/aILsjb0boTIFugVMCl9g6T9UJ9wOZfs3
D4b5QWsIHWXJN6irteTU154B8byNU2LRFPuGtIZy/h8HJCg7Vi1nFjn4G2hAS1pP
pnw6Wnz+puqZ7Vd69n5vSNXIi78XGoVrqW1cHWrGK74wgYpqbkx8MbsadOfTDG7x
HhllY9e+ecay3knB8DkPU5cFgAbyJ/YL4avQyoGbhmS5VMRpysnB5+5Eg3PyhiBo
3SjbO6TvWuTPUFii/mG/XSkM8a3BOBf6udCObqOixvZVAjJ7+XieqY3al8J1/vTE
D39l2usQg5HW3ScTerMEmj1zEb4Nd9DAcRC/jeF5/vFv4losbm0vZQ==
=0yuI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Sent
https://blockchain.info/tx/15da83473ab32b91f5438c17714bf9cfb70d7f545adddc3a19d910f01beaa4ca


Unique address for repayment is:
1LvDPveLmPW2m1YZDAHjW9tCXSbRUGotAQ

Great! (Quoting the repayment address)

The borrower can repay to the address quoted in this post. (1LvDPveLmPW2m1YZDAHjW9tCXSbRUGotAQ)
10718  Other / Meta / Re: BespokeServicesLTD Banned. Why? on: April 30, 2015, 02:08:14 PM
Lol. Why am I not surprised to see this?
10719  Economy / Lending / Re: Need loan .2btc No Collateral on: April 30, 2015, 02:05:05 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This is quickseller from bitcointalk today is April 30 2015

I confirm I control the account waterpile

Please send the escrow fee to the below address 19maepyJ6sEsuqAsVTbmyLt3LMpEVSXorS

It is now safe to fund the loan

Thanks
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEVAwUBVUI2YlMt0pDwvrUWAQJ+mgf/aILsjb0boTIFugVMCl9g6T9UJ9wOZfs3
D4b5QWsIHWXJN6irteTU154B8byNU2LRFPuGtIZy/h8HJCg7Vi1nFjn4G2hAS1pP
pnw6Wnz+puqZ7Vd69n5vSNXIi78XGoVrqW1cHWrGK74wgYpqbkx8MbsadOfTDG7x
HhllY9e+ecay3knB8DkPU5cFgAbyJ/YL4avQyoGbhmS5VMRpysnB5+5Eg3PyhiBo
3SjbO6TvWuTPUFii/mG/XSkM8a3BOBf6udCObqOixvZVAjJ7+XieqY3al8J1/vTE
D39l2usQg5HW3ScTerMEmj1zEb4Nd9DAcRC/jeF5/vFv4losbm0vZQ==
=0yuI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
10720  Economy / Lending / Re: Need loan .2btc No Collateral on: April 30, 2015, 01:59:24 PM
Code:
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
this is waterpile giving his account to quickseller as escrow for a loan from neotox in the amount of .2 btc in the event that the loan is not repaid by may 16 2015 then my account will transfer to neotox this is in reference to a loan request on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042616.0 today is April 30 2015
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
G7NpzBnszwAXdt7QrmRtppIa1PQX6X/ET7cHsznG+TLiFMvrbKNL4Y+RNgXq0wD35zDpXuu97vy4P9VLmbumyTU=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Is this good?
You forgot to include the address you are signing from but when I reformat it to the below is verified
Code:
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
this is waterpile giving his account to quickseller as escrow for a loan from neotox in the amount of .2 btc in the event that the loan is not repaid by may 16 2015 then my account will transfer to neotox this is in reference to a loan request on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042616.0 today is April 30 2015
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
18Hftg7gAFd7HjNhKHiw8nik8G8ffF9oMW
G7NpzBnszwAXdt7QrmRtppIa1PQX6X/ET7cHsznG+TLiFMvrbKNL4Y+RNgXq0wD35zDpXuu97vy4P9VLmbumyTU=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

You has posted the address in the following post (among other places) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=908732.msg10030192#msg10030192

You can now PM me your password.
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