They can't do anything with that frameset, it's just loading the KNC site in a frame not interacting with it. A way to try and get a page to promote and hide the reseller Id as already mentioned...Google doesn't much like frames so it won't help there much if that was the intent.
With some promotional skills and even some paid ads they could maybe manage a few sales though. Not a completely bad idea.
They've done a shit job regardless.. 6 sales!  Maybe, but for the work and cost, if they'd managed 10...was worth a go for a free rig. Must suck to not make it. Yes, it is a shame fraud didn't pay off for them?  Sadly, it did for the ctsminer scam. They appear to have bagged about $100k from forum members  If anyone is good at internet forensics or blockchain analysis, drop into these two threads and see if you can help out: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=429513https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=432716Fraud? How is selling miners via a legit referal link fraud? People will go there and think they are buying from KNC, which is exactly what they will be doing. Buying from that page is buying from KNC directly. All the banner links on here fraud too? lol Bro, do you even read?  Yes. But humour me and explain how buying a FUCKING MINER THAT YOU THOUGHT WAS FROM KNC, THAT IS FROM KNC is fraud? I read their simple source code...it's the KNC site in a frame so that the ref code doesn't show. The easiest way to build a site to use a ref link without tons of work and copyright problems, it's done ALL THE TIME. No fraud. Look up fraud. This is not one. It would be fun to see you report them, then the cops follow the payment...directly to KNC. |
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Fucking hell, I don't know about fraud and who was responsible for that, but what's being said about Pheonix over in one of those threads is definitely libel. What the fuck happens to people on internet forums? Do they think they can write what they like, call people dodgy and scammers and ruin their reputation like that? Without proof, that's gonna get you into a whole heap of trouble. |
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They can't do anything with that frameset, it's just loading the KNC site in a frame not interacting with it. A way to try and get a page to promote and hide the reseller Id as already mentioned...Google doesn't much like frames so it won't help there much if that was the intent.
With some promotional skills and even some paid ads they could maybe manage a few sales though. Not a completely bad idea.
They've done a shit job regardless.. 6 sales! Maybe, but for the work and cost, if they'd managed 10...was worth a go for a free rig. Must suck to not make it. Yes, it is a shame fraud didn't pay off for them? Sadly, it did for the ctsminer scam. They appear to have bagged about $100k from forum members If anyone is good at internet forensics or blockchain analysis, drop into these two threads and see if you can help out: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=429513https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=432716Fraud? How is selling miners via a legit referal link fraud? People will go there and think they are buying from KNC, which is exactly what they will be doing. Buying from that page is buying from KNC directly. All the banner links on here fraud too? lol |
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They can't do anything with that frameset, it's just loading the KNC site in a frame not interacting with it. A way to try and get a page to promote and hide the reseller Id as already mentioned...Google doesn't much like frames so it won't help there much if that was the intent.
With some promotional skills and even some paid ads they could maybe manage a few sales though. Not a completely bad idea.
They've done a shit job regardless.. 6 sales! Maybe, but for the work and cost, if they'd managed 10...was worth a go for a free rig. Must suck to not make it. |
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They can't do anything with that frameset, it's just loading the KNC site in a frame not interacting with it. A way to try and get a page to promote and hide the reseller Id as already mentioned...Google doesn't much like frames so it won't help there much if that was the intent.
With some promotional skills and even some paid ads they could maybe manage a few sales though. Not a completely bad idea.
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It must be, yet for reasons I cannot understand it let me view my personal details and orders, without me even providing my username or password. It just mirrors the real site. It's just the KNC site in a frame <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>KnCMiner</title>
<meta HTTP-EQUIV="content-type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<frameset>
<frame marginwidth=0 marginheight=0 frameborder=0 name="TOPFRAME" src="https://www.kncminer.com/?resellerid=339" noresize>
</frameset>
</html> That's the entire source code. Odd if it isn't KNC run. |
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Hiya mate, talked to you the other day on Gary's mobile from the pub. Having a look at this, interesting idea. Not what I expected at all. Maybe buy you a pint for a couple of coins to try it out  hQXuzgBTK7wz2xoLbdaB42QRHvSKST4yA1 |
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All ASIC manufacturers are scams, and if anyone went to investigate in person and came back to report a great company...what would they be? That's the rule.
I remember the shit Orama took here and how KNC were a scam. I'm sure he does too.
I'm unlikely to be interested in these but if I change my mind I'll pop on a train and go look. I'd keep that info to myself unless someone asked politely, the less ASICS out there the better and I'd not fancy the grief I'd get for sharing info.
I'm sure someone much closer than me will do just that rather than fuck about with another scary international shipping drama. It's very close to a lot of miners over here. Well worth a day trip.
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Cambridge has a long history of this type of thing, it's possible for sure. Remember a guy called Sir Clive Sinclair? Sinclair spectrum etc. They were well ahead of their time with their products in this area. I'm pretty sure he once had something to do with a company with a similar name if not this one, his development company was Sinclair research, but I think they manufactured under this name or one very similar. Some very bright peeps round there, it's the best uni in the world arguably..and they certainly had the facilities for dev and fabrication decades ago, maybe they are back in the game now? ARM are also there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_HoldingsCould also be someone playing on these things of course. They welcome visits, even KNC don't welcome people to their production plant (not even to pick up rigs apparently) easy to find out if need be.  |
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It doesn't matter how much it costs to manufacture Jupiter, KnC pays that costs in any case, it only matters to them if they can earn more money by selling or mining with it, and they can certainly make more by selling it.
Yeah I know, that's what I meant. With no risk compared to mining too. They are in an amazingly profitable business for now. I can't think of another business where upfront costs are paid by customers then it's all profit and you still own the company with no shareholders or investors to answer to. No wonder so many are popping up trying to get into the game now. |
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Sometimes I wonder: why would KNC sell more Jupiters to the general public or even previous customers when they can build them and use them for themselves?
There's very simple explanation why KnC would never do this: They can always sell the miners for more BTC then they will ever mine with them. People are extremely optimistic about difficulty increases, they don't believe hard facts they are getting from mining calculators, and many just want to mine regardless if they may mine with some BTC loss. How many times you've seen BTC/US$ ratio mentioned in the profit calculation, no matter if the miner is payed in BTC? This all boils to the fact that people are willing to overpay for any miner, not just KnC, so KnC would be crazy to keep the Jupiters for themselves and reduce their profits, when they can sell them for more than BTC amount that will ever be mined with them. You can be sure no miner manufacturer is keeping the miners for themselves. Not exactly true now maybe, they will pay capital gains tax on mining profits.. I hear tell that's 30% over there? Also, they aren't paying 13k for a Neptune or what we paid for the last rigs..they pay cost price, so much less needs to be mined to break even. If a Jup cost them 2k to build, it changes things compared to our situation. They are probably the only ones running KNC rigs who will break even in bitcoins. If a day 2 Jup has only mined 50 coins so far and cost about 70 as posted a day or so ago. |
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Not a single customer has been charged VAT by KNC as far as I know; it's all done external.
Yup, you are exactly right.... as far as you know. :-) But in the meantime, as a European purchaser, UK specifically... I can assure anyone that cancellation includes purchase price, the VAT charged by KnC & shipping. I lost a few hundred Ģ unfortunately due to currency fluctuation... But the refund was completed within a week of being requested. Are you telling me, that KNC charged you a VAT, collected that VAT upon purchase, and never refunded it when you refunded your order?? No, he says he got the VAT back. KNC don't pay the VAT right away, they pay it on sales later in the year so a refund isn't a sale anymore on their books and doesn't require any VAT. They collect it on the govt's behalf, the govt doesn't get it ...something that pisses a lot of small businesses off if they only just cross the VAT threshold, they may not have predicted they'd do that and not charge VAT, then become liable for it at year end when their sales exceed their pedictions. Some businesses even stay closed to avoid needing to register for VAT. IF they keep any of your payment it's fraud unless there's a cancellation penalty clause. With Sweden now classing mining as a business because BTC is a commodity liable for CGT on profits, it may even pay for miners there to register for VAT so they can claim it back...along with relief on capital expenditure on rigs and power etc it could make a serious difference now the game got a lot more industrial. How will they measure profits? No clue. lol |
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To cut in line, no matter what, is considered really, really rude in Scandinavia. We donīt do that shit. Cutting in line means increasing the number of people in the queue with 1. Selling your pre-order to somebody else means you leaving the queue and somebody else taking your spot. How is that rude? From the all other people in queue point of view nothing has changed. Except the bad after taste and the person behind you loose his opportunity to move up in the que (as agreed to happen if someone ask for refund). No serious business here in Scandinavia allows that shit, itīs unprofessional. Not to mention that someone couldn't order because someone who didn't want one already had the spot and they sold out...so instead of paying retail for a machine from KNC they pay a premium from someone who may not be trusted and may not be able to support them as well as a direct KNC buy. Some very greedy twats in this game. Seriously. Selling an in hand machine is different from a pre-order. Possibly this is one reason for a lot of refunds, they ain't re-selling their pre-orders as easily as they though so they baled out. Given the hassle that gives KNC compared to a normal legit order, and the fucking price going up for batch 2 for genuine customers who couldn't get into batch 1 because they all sold out and many went to the carpet baggers...how would anyone think this is a cool idea? |
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Yeah, Cts miner looks like a BFL job all over again.... and no real credentials at all... just smoke, no links to the fabulous company's websites they speak of.... All claims, and zero proof. No linkdn, no profiles, references, or past projects to even check up on when they claim they've been doing this since the stone age....(1975)wow, before the web existed.....amazing. Did microprocessors even exist then? ...and they look 20ish... and the info on the "about us" page literally changed since last night from starting this in may 2012 to may 2013.... They claim to have made chips for.. Aircraft Testing, Remote Switchgear Operation, Stock Control, Instrumentation, Oil and Petrochemical Exploration, Marine Science and Environmental Control.... and not a single affiliate listed, not a single customer listed in a way we can check the background. Total Bullshit. Obvious scammers, and bad liars. Michael Richardson supposedly went to Cambridge... we could check that, that's it. Oh, and a working prototype on Jan 22nd, but three months to deliver from there? Must be an fpga, in which case, they lied again.. oh... "some changes to the internals have had to be made to the CirrusMine product which is why unfortunately we have been unable to supply you with detailed internal shots" Yeah, good excuse.
Total fishiness throughout the site. How could they possibly afford to almost fully develop a 5Th/s 20nm machine with no venture capitol, and not have a single picture?
KNC may have had terrible stick drawings, but had mass credentials to back up their claims, and a traceable history, which is why I chose KNC early on.
No credentials & no history to check = no $ from Ewik
Nigerian princesses still send out emails telling me that daddy died and left a gold mine they no-one wants but I can have for a small 10k fee if I help them claim it. They do this because they know most people won't believe it, but there's one who will born every day |
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or If you had just 100 Bitcoins, and the price settled over 10k..... someday mate.... someday soon People will be so glad their machine spits out .005 a day.... maybe at 0.1 or 0.05, but not at 0.005 a day, this will only be $50 at $10,000 per bitcoin, then takeaway power cost it will be even less... sure you calculated it correctly? $50 a day is not that bad as long as it covers 50% of your operational costs. e.g. $50 a day, 50% maintenance costs (energy + space rent + time etc etc) you still got 30*$50*.5=$750 net per month. And how much will $750 a month buy at 2140 inflation levels? IF Google adopt it to take on Paypal that could be more like 2016. Or Amazon. Or both. Google have done some things that no-one even imagined would work out ...like driving a camera car down all those streets...and we now take it for granted. Some of those cars were even robots. Bitcoin is no stretch at all for their wallet. The head of Paypal showed his lack of common sense by saying they would consider it when the price stabilized...as if them getting into botcoins woudn't have any effect on the price lmao I used to share Pheonixes optimism but think he was a little too optimistic on timescale ..recently I've seen so much good stuff from everywhere that matters I think he maybe right. I also had no real idea what other uses the system has on top of just paying for stuff. Coloured coins atc. |
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I think a Neptune at 3000 GH will ROI in BTC as long as it starts hashing at around a 5 billion difficulty.
We'll likely hit a difficulty of 5 billion sometime in late March / early April.
I think more like 15 to 20 billion. It looks to me like about a dozen companies are about to deliver before april. BUT All those noob miners and new btc users will also be creating "Dead Bitcoin days" driving the price up with a BTC shortage, as the usage increases, and the speculation increases..., which will save us in fiat returns. Eventually, the transaction fees per block will also become a more significant value as the block sizes increase etc.... untill finally... After the last Bitcoin is issued, that's all that miners will have or need.... transaction fees. Many good things to come in btc.... Wells Fargo, Google, E-Bay, PayPal, Borse, Forex, "Bitcoin ATM's", Campaign Donations, IRA's, Military aid, need I say more? I see a future, where there is no "Checkout" in stores at all. The device on the product has either been paid for, or not.. by scanning the QRcode with your android Dick-Tracey watch.... Soon. Everyone will have a BTC wallet on their phone. No more digging for change on the bus, or toll roads, or parking meters, paid toilets, Phone booths, vending machines, McDonald's, and all those other annoying places you seem to have to dig for change! No more bank or store robberies! No more pickpockets. Disability "checks" will be deposited on the 1st every month in btc. There will be no need for "ATM"s or banks for most. "Checking accounts" will disappear, and those using old fiat will be under suspicion. Remember that time your buddy went to Vegas, had a blast, brought a hooker to the room, fell asleep, and when he woke up, his wallet and a kidney were missing? That's not likely to happen any more... except for the kidney...hahaha Someday it will be embedded directly in your I.D. ...Remember NWO? ahemmm..., right along with a portion of the block-chain, and be solar or everlasting battery powered with built in retina scanners. Personalized advertisements will play on your phone or ID based on your past purchases and places you visit online as you walk around stores offering coupons and discounts. This is just the beginning of the world's wealth re-distribution. The blockchain will literally be transmitted pocket-to pocket(already happening), and some will find they've become sterile from being a wireless hotspot all the time.... lol Just a year ago, a cashless society was a pipe-dream.... This is gonna be a wild ride!..... and the name KnCminer will live to the end of time.You're right mate, a lot of very positive stuff seems to be on the verge of happening. I think you're thinking similarly to me that your coins will be worth seriously more in say 5 years so if they don't break even at the moment you're mining them eventually that will right itself retrospectively? IF you read reddit posts recently, especially the Google reply to an email and how that's panning out, you'd be hard pressed to be pessimistic about the future of bitcoin. For me though, mining seems like it could easily be a way to swap a number of bitcoins for a smaller number of bitcoins. A gamble on manufacturer, what they can do, will do, what their competitors will do, and the thing that really bothers me most...what other major but dark players are doing, which can all screw up the most enthusiastic research. Someone on a podcast mentioned something that made me smile about bitcoin, the fact that in theory at least, you can walk across borders with your wealth in your head. Just by knowing your wallet details. Doesn't get safer or more convenient than that does it? It's already been a wild ride, I don't think we've started yet. I think we now come to the really good bit. Adoption. Payday for all of us, the people who want cash, the people who want to change the world's financial systems and make them fairer, we'll all win. |
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Is anyone thinking about taking taxes into account when they are calculating their break even? I don't think so, but I do, because I don't want to end in jail! If you deduct taxes from your profit, things get really worse... You will be writing off capital expenditure too though, that could make a big difference. |
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One thing is certain, if folks keep their Neptune miners and by the time they're delivered they won't ROI.. just ebay the darn things. You'll make a profit.
If people keep cancelling they won't need to go to ebay, KNC will have some to sell. I can't see how they can break even myself, after all most of the last machines haven't yet. My little merc is 3 months old in two days, it's mined 9 btc, luckily for me that makes a dollar profit due to the unforseen rise in the exchange rate. BTC were around 90 each when I bought it, so it is likely to never break even in BTC terms. It's not even half way there today. If you think that kind of rise in exchange rate is likely to save buyer again you're dreaming short term, maybe long term it will though. The day my little merc started whirring it was mining around .5 btc a day, it's managed .5 in the last ten days. That is without any major competitor to KNC really firing out massive numbers, mainly KNC stuff and dribs and drabs...NOW is the time the other rigs are starting to come to market properly. We all knew they would. We don't know the damage yet though. There's no reason to think that the difficulty won't do similar damage to returns if Neptunes are delivered in May or June. KNC need to charge less, make less profit. Then they have a future. It's not even ROI for them is it after all? It's ROOPI (return on other people's investment - customers money invested). The one thing that we can be certain of in the bitcoin world is that nothing is certain in the bitcoin world. Most of us won our last gamble, not due to some wonder performed by KNC, because what we mined is worth more (which is why ebaying rigs was ever a good thing at a premium over what we paid). Past performance is no guarantee of future gains. That's never been truer. |
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Think again. $40k gets you 5 TH delivered next week. By the time you get the Neptunes, difficulty will be much higher. 5 TH now is far more profitable than 12 TH several months from now. 5th next week? Who sells them? 25+ Antminers from Bitmain. https://www.bitmaintech.com/product.htm3th of Antminers = 5kw (by taking 300watts per Antminer) = 31.654 BTC (without shipping) = 25.8k $ 3th of Neptunes = 2.5kw = 14.6 BTC = 12k $ Two times more $$$ and watts for the same hash-power. There is a really big difference here. You really can't even get a Neptune for at least another several months so why even compare right now? All my friends requested refunds also for their Neptunes. In the bunch I think there was like 18 of them. Don't be surprised if you see some go on sale or we hear some news from KNC now. Once they see their very loyal customer base is dumping them out I'm pretty sure we'll eventually hear some thing from them soon. They only have one spokesperson here who isn't a sales person and can't really confirm on anything since all decisions are made by Sam. Only a matter of time we'll hear something. Once you are a millionaire and see possible money that could be yours leaving your bank account it starts to make you worry, no matter how much you have. Or those of us who stand pat get extra hashing power or some other recompense. or maybe discount on hosting Depending on how this pans out, maybe a tax on hosted miners profits? They will attract capital gains tax as assets ..how the hell that will work and who pays it though? http://www.pfhub.com/sweden-will-treat-bitcoin-as-an-asset-not-a-currency-311/ Worth looking into if you are thinking of hosting in Sweden to avoid nasty surprises. |
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Off topic, but this looks promising for the future if you haven't seen it. http://uk.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1vsypm/google_is_paying_attention_to_bitcoin_vic/ Google. As for KNC being a manufacturing company, not really. They design, farm out the fabrication..then assemble and pack the rigs. They can do that anywhere, with temp staff doing the body of the assembly and grunt work. It's not like they need premises or staff all year round, just a few months a year they are assembling rigs. A small workshop and offices will do them fine in-between runs, plus their hosting facility. Assuming they do that well, their overheads will probably beat a lot of competitors who have all those premises and staff to pay for ..but those other guys will need to be constantly producing to do that. Not the best scenario for this business with it's production runs and fast development requirements. |
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