q327K091 I enjoy your many posts on here. It's an interesting concept, the movement of REDD from the exchanges to people's wallets. I had expected the price to jump temporarily when REDD went PoSV, but it's effectively halved in value. I'm still committed to it though and think the concept is very workable. Once the bulk of coins have moved to wallets and are into the staking cycles I expect things will settle and perhaps there'll be more focus on the coin's ultimate usefulness. Once people are actually tipping and passing value on through social media using REDD it will likely start to really grow in value. This is a long-haul investment.

Interesting ideas coins101. I certainly think confidence is the overarching attribute that will define the value of DRK. The income generating facets are very important and key. But the implementation of DRK's updates and freedom from major problems will be fundamental to confidence.

Re this...


...can you elaborate further? How would you apply any PE measurement at this early stage? And what makes you think the market cap should be "over $50m right now, closer to $100m - $200m"? Thanks.

Yes, it's a pretty good article. Both my inner and outer grammar nazis cringed in unison. Especially for this corker:

"Darkcoin has been spearheaded by team lead Evan Duffield – who has went public with his identity, which has lended legitimacy to the project."

+1

"Polarise". That's the word I was looking for. It's exactly what he's done, for no valid reason. Why oh why do people do this stuff? It's so unproductive!

Forceflow I can understand you feeling the way you do. Interacting on forums like this is fraught with knee-jerk reactions, misinterpretations, extremism, blanket assertions and sweeping generalisations. Dipping one's toe into the unstable waters of a thread such as this one can result in a savage response from people that you'd otherwise likely find very sociable at a party (maybe not camosoul....he's a special case; but I'm quite fond of him even though I have no desire to own a gun!)

I'd like to try and break down how an initial posting like you've made results in the responses you've received. Call it the psychology of entering an Internet forum and think about how this might equate to walking into a room full of people you've never met at a party. When you post into a thread like this, if you're not known, you only have to make a statement that's even potentially/possibly suggesting slight antagonism and you'll open up a barrage of whoop-ass retorts that'll leave you peppered in holes. That's just how this stuff works. It's the equivalent of walking into a party and making unfriendly, perhaps even contentious comments, to the people there about how they're dressed, what music they're listening to, etc. So let me take your original post and look at how it's resulted in the responses:


"Fanatics" - given you've not been present in the thread it's an adjective that's hardly designed to endear you to people that have been here for a while. It suggests people here aren't mentally stable or have their act together and it's bordering on offensive.
"somnolescent prices" - a pretty fancy phrase. I had to look it up. After your opening use of "fanatics" it's probably made people think "Who's this wanker then?"


This is the language of a day trader just interested in P&D. When you consider the whole DRK offering is still in beta and the stuff's being worked on at an impressive rate for the extraordinary technology being developed, this isn't an accurate statement. DRK is four times the market cap of its nearest anon competitor. As camosoul said, focussing on the price is entirely the wrong issue at this early stage. So with this second sentence you've taken yourself further into likely "troll" territory with the people here that have to fend off lurkers who come to this thread just to rubbish DRK, and for no other purpose.


That's a viewpoint based on what? That the price did go up into the 0.025 territory in May? What criteria does the current price meet (or not meet) that would make your statement "...price has been low" accurate? And who are you to make such an assertion? Do you see that this third sentence of yours is again contentious and frankly, against all that we know is going on and likely to happen in the near future, quite arrogant. Now with this third sentence you've put yourself firmly into the "troll" category (rightly or wrongly....on here there is no body language to read, no external cues, just words, that's why you have to choose them so carefully).


By this point, your fourth sentence has little credibility because of the manner in which you've delivered the first three. Maybe there's some validity in what you're saying but I think the number of people that would be "living" next to their mining rigs and therefore have them set to lower power/lower fan speeds, would be quite minimal. I think the focus miners have and where pools choose to apply their resources is a far more complex subject than that. You've made a statement that, along with the first three sentences, just makes people think you're putting shit on DRK and everyone that's so passionate about it.

So, with this initial post you put many offside from the beginning. The art of entering a thread like this and engaging successfully requires careful consideration of how to put one's ideas forward in a non-confrontational way (just like the art of approaching someone in a bar you'd like to have a relationship with....start off badly and you'll last only a minute or two). It's then so very hard to find your way back after you've set off everyone's rejection of you.

Many on here will think I've just wasted my breath but I'm quite convinced the medium of Internet forums like this results in thousands of good people being rejected (or effectively rejecting themselves) due to these basic aspects of human interaction being misunderstood. And that's unfortunate.

luigi1111 do you mean me or Ignition75 (or Forceflow perhaps)? Ha!
If it's me, thanks, I'd like to post more often.

Very interesting set of observations toknormal. I like your posts.

It will be very interesting to see what happens as the "un-newsworthyness" period comes to a close. Will we get a massive pump to higher ATH than the previous level? Or will it climb up slowly (or not do anything initially)? Hard to say.

Very true....

A genie out of the bottle isn't easily dealt with.

What an exciting time to be around. We all might just get to witness the resolution of this ungodly mess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0&list=PLE88E9ICdipidHkTehs1VbFzgwrq1jkUJ

I can see a police line-up....a troll, an idiot, a moron, a scammer and an "asshat". The attending police officer says to the victim "Do any of these look like the one that done it to ya?" The victim studies them in detail, stroking his chin carefully, and pronounces "I think they're all guilty, but that one on the end, asshat....he looks particularly like the one....."

Yes, agree. Same for me camosoul. If you've been around for a while, had to deal with banks and gov' tax authorities, and the sheer wholesale brain-washing most people don't even know they've been subjected to (and 'live' on a daily basis), you start to realise how desperate governments and big businesses everywhere are to keep sheeple being sheeple.

I follow a couple of other threads for 'promising' coins but (based on my experience and knowledge of IT/software development) I can see that nothing's coming close to the sophistication and leadership within Darkcoin's team. This is a game changer and what's happening with the price at this early stage is about as relevant as the price Bitcoin was at in its first few months.

I think you've made some very pertinent points Ignition75 about Forceflow's posting and the mindset behind it. However, as someone that's read pretty much every page of this thread and is heavily invested in DRK, I do worry that all of us who are so excited and committed to Darkcoin are a bit over zealous in denouncing anyone that challenges us.

I'd like to see more accurate rebuttals of someone's bearish views on DRK, and some level of grace demonstrated when it's apparent they're here simply to muddy the water. Now we all know when you get someone who's so lacking in awareness of how governments work (i.e. that the public's perception of governments' power is as much about governments' maintenance of a smoke screen and the broad acquiescence of a public more interested in bread and circuses than standing up for their freedom) it's very hard within the limits of typing text in these response boxes to articulate why their "but the government won't allow it" statements are so naive.

But I think it would be better to try and correct misunderstandings rather than engagement in a "you're obviously a completely fuckwit" responses. I think some of the notions people we're labelling as "trolls" bring to this discussion need to be discussed.

For instance, it is possible that some sort of repeat of the 9/11 terrorist attack will happen and Darkcoin could get inexorably mixed up in the ensuing investigation and held up as a key funding facilitation mechanism the terrorists used. Do you think Darkcoin would be safe then? I expect the public backlash and draconian pursuing of everyone and anyone involved in Darkcoin would make the MacCarthyism communist witch hunts of the 1950s look tame by comparison. This is just one of the risks Darkcoin could be subject to. We need to take some of the notions people that come to this thread with and discuss them or we're all just on a continual "DRK DRK DRK. Give us a D, give us a K...." cheer leader session which ultimately isn't healthy.

Above all, let ensure we discuss all aspects right to the outer edges of the envelope so we all have the best chance of making this THE enduring crypto-currency of all time.

I agree with camosoul on this (apart from the "bait them into a trap" bit; that usually never goes well). I've previously posted that they should be completely ignored and never quoted. But, thinking about camosoul's key point, it's imperative misinformation is corrected. The key is to not "feed" them (i.e. get caught up in arguments they want you to have) by responding to their nastiness or aggression. Definitely don't threaten them or take part in "my dad's got bigger muscles than yours" puerility, that just energises them.

An astoundingly important point hartvercoint has highlighted. The WWW was named a web because of Timothy Berners-Lee's very clever original concept of any HTML page being directly addressable. It in effect created a "web" of pages that could all be linked together. (Unfortunately developments like Facebook and Apple iTunes have sullied that clear architecture and built their own sections of the WWW that are closed off and don't follow the rules of pages being directly addressable; but that's a whole other story).

The "Internet" (note capital "I", the officially correct way of writing it) is a vastly bigger concept than the "web" and involves the TCP/IP protocol as its base that services are then built on, the WWW being just one of them.

I've realised I've had posts deleted today too. Mostly ones where I've quoted someone and added +1 or +100. I followed up the instructions in one of the PMs on how to contact them about the deletion and it results in:

   "User 'Bitcoin Forum' has blocked your personal message."

What I'd said in my message was:


Bitcointalk can you please respond as to what's going on here and why we're getting our posts deleted? We need to know that a level of integrity exists and our content isn't being deleted.

Working okay from here (Sydney). Just logged in at 13:05 GMT

Does the #50xxx number get deleted on these deleted posts?

McHammer wouldn't you rather engage with people on here in a constructive manner? Regardless of what sort of knee jerk response you're likely to come back at me with, I know the answer is yes. But, as so often happens on forums, an early rebuttal of something you've said has resulted in you reacting against it in an affronted manner and then the downwards spiral that claims all too many people takes over. I'm guessing if we met each other socially we'd be able to have a good conversation and learn about each other. But alas, this format of back and forth banter where I have no physical cues about you and how you are (and likewise you have none on me) can result in almost immediate misunderstanding and disdain.

Can I please suggest you read my post #50615 on page 2531 (and bigrcanada’s post #50548 quoted within the text of my post) to try and comprehend what we’re dealing with here. It does take a bit of effort to get underneath all the surface noise and identify what's truly valuable. You can do that and move beyond the aggressive tit-for-tat style of engagement (I believe it's not truly who any of the people that do this on here are)

I've been hovering around on this forum for a while now and I am heavily invested in DRK . To say it's been a wild ride (in regards to the pricing extremes) would obviously be an understatement, but that's all part of the excitement of being involved in something so revolutionary. What I'm picking up though so clearly, when you consider the many varying viewpoints about DRK and anon-crypto in general, is a distinct lack of understanding by some of our more infamous participants on this thread as to what privacy and anonymity actually means at this point in humanity's development.

I'd just like to articulate a couple of key aspects around this which may help some who're very negatively vocal on here obtain a greater understanding of why privacy and anonymity of financial transactions is so important.

The world in 2014 is not the same as it was even just a few years ago. The twin disasters (from the perspective of most governments and their spy/spook agencies) of the Julian Assange/Wikileaks and Edward Snowden/NSA exposure have highlighted to us just how incredibly deep, systemic and widespread is the monitoring of other governments' and citizens' private communications and transactions. It's likely that what we learned in all that uncovering is but the tip of the iceberg. When you look at some of the programs and initiatives going on like the daily state-sponsored assassination of militants in distant lands via remote controlled drones and the incredibly draconian alterations to freedom-of-speech rights curtailing journalists' ability to operate without transgressing some anti-terrorism laws, you can see that Big Brother is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And Mr & Mrs Joe Public are completely and utterly clueless that their rights to live freely in functioning democracies are slowly being whittled away. Like the frog in the proverbial slowly heating water, most people are blissfully unaware that "freedom" is being eroded bit by little bit by forces that are so well disguised and so entrenched, there's almost no comprehension of the dangers facing society from within the task master mega-behemoth governments we've supposedly "voted" to protect us. There is an Orwellian undercurrent going on that is making themes portrayed in fiction like Animal Farm, 1984 and V for Vendetta ever more likely.

What I hear again and again from one of our more vocal criticisers on here are thoughts along the lines of "Corporations aren't going to use Darkcoin. There's just no way they'll trust some unknown crypto currency" and "The government's not going to allow it" an "You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this could become mainstream". Against a backdrop of regulated banking, mainstream financial services and the juggernaut payment processors such as Visa, Mastercard, Western Union, yes absolutely, Darkcoin looks about as likely to succeed in this area as any other little known "techie style" technological breakthrough. But this is where the short-term thinking that's not taking in the bigger picture is so flawed. Every new technology that's ever been developed that disrupts currently entrenched markets and processes goes through several phases:

1. Some brilliant person comes up with the idea and develops early proof-of-concept examples;
2. A whole bunch of early adopters are inspired and jump into the ring to be involved and support it;
3. As it starts to take off, hundreds of people who want part of the action get involved too (but they're often very impatient, want results immediately and start mouthing off like they're experts even though no one's likely to have guaranteed them anything);
4. The technology begins to be noticed by the mainstream and corporations/governments who will potentially have their revenues heavily affected by it and hence start jockeying for position to regulate/control it or kill it off altogether;
5. Lots of serious money starts flooding in and prices go to the moon but (due to classic pyramid expansion) crashes happen as substantial numbers of those who got in in early get out with astounding profits and thousands of people suffer serious losses by walking away from their investments;
6. But meanwhile, the original visionary and early supporters stay the course and keep beavering away;
7. After vast numbers of the public end up very wary and distrustful of whatever the new technology is, people that do "get it" work away on associated products/services and an eco-system around the new technology starts to develop;
8. Before long it's being talked about positively again and then mainstream organisations start adopting it (but this can take years/decades even);
9. It's then on TV, in films, in newspapers, in supermarkets (thinks iTunes pre-paid cards for example);
10. It's then so ubiquitous and no one can even imagine why they thought it was something to be so fearful of (think Internet banking/shopping).

Now, after more than 30 years working in the IT industry (I started my career driving a van around fixing Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-11s; a realm not too many of you would know about I would think) I have seen the cycle I've described above play out many times. What's different with Darkcoin is the tectonic shifts going on in regards to huge overbearing governments that have cooked the books with money printing (QE I,II,III is over $4tril now), ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) and created welfare states with a sense of entitlement within the population that's like nothing that's ever existed in the history of man. These tectonic shifts in society and how governments "govern" are going to facilitate all new desires to within many people to take charge of one's personal finances and prevent the ever deepening scrutiny. Deep down underneath the pat little nightly newscast financial summary of the Dow, the S&P 500, the gold price, how much a barrel of oil is and what the exchange rate is of wherever you are against the US$, is manipulation, control, subversion and domination that is beyond anything Mr & Mrs Joe Public has any comprehension of, nor indeed desire to know about. "Bread and circuses" for the middle classes keep our governments able to function with almost complete immunity, while the vast gulf between the haves and have-nots just widens. Massive change though is but moments away, especially in light of this house-of-cards economic fragility courtesy of central bankers who have completely ruined the world economy's potential to self-heal. Privacy and anonymity are nice notions at the moment but very soon they're going to be must-haves. What might look somewhat dubious at the moment (and even the name "Darkcoin" conjures up illegalities at first mention' my 16 year old daughter's response when I was explaining it to her was "that sounds dodgy") is going to move through the phases I've highlighted above and become a standard.

Like others that have posted overviews of their thinking on DRK, (and I particularly like bigrcanada's summary below), I'm in this for the long haul. It doesn't mean DRK is a sure thing, but based on what I know is going on and what's going to (eventually) become important to everyday people, the strategy the DRK team have, I think is sound and will carry DRK well into the future. Some of the negative voices on here are speaking from a perspective of this week, next week, and maybe the week after (if they can stop their aggressive abuse hurling for more than an hour to have a think about things). Come on....much longer term thinking is fundamental with this. The movement of DRK's price at this juncture is nowhere near as important as the development of, what's looking like, the soundest and most substantial anonymous payment architecture ever developed. I've read the white papers and overviews of most of the anon coins and I truly believe what Even Duffield and his team are pulling together here is truly ground breaking. If he's as good an entrepreneur and project manager as he is a developer, it's highly likely RC4 won't be released for weeks yet. I've worked on large software development projects and know what's involved with distributed teams and testing. The amount of pressure being postulated here by people that clearly have no idea is appalling (one the main offenders; you know who you are; how about you just calm down about the price dropping and let this anon coin develop along the time-frame it needs for such a revolutionary concept?)

The very best thing we can do is let those guys do their job and do it well. It's imperative that RC4 is rock solid (as much as can be expected; there will be issues) and confidence is built in the strong and substantial foundation of Darkcoin.

raffern there isn't a guaranteed "release date" for RC4. It is being worked on by many people and updates can be read about over at darkcointalk.org. I'd recommend you read through the last 3 pages of this thread to get a understanding of the dynamics and interactions around RC4.

+1 (but it will be good when we all join the cloak guys for a massive party at Hugh Heffner's place)