People borrow to invest in property, stock and whatever, so thats gambling?

There has to be mad manipulation in this market..  the constant massive instant swings in the price of BTC would lead me to no other answer.

The "bearwhale" I fear was just a tatic to fuel enthusiasm in the community to allow someone to sell coins at @400.  IMO there will be a massive push down wards perhaps to fallin's target of $200 then another massive rise to $3-400 on some news that will make you want to buy and hold this allowing this person to double up again..

I still cannot see the ability to suppress the market forever but I believe it could be a LONG.. long time before we see any 4 digit coins again.

Anyone else think someone is attempting to mess up the market to get as many coins and as much fiat as they can?

Like nobody ever took out a loan to invest in anything before. Are you a communist?

I borrowed last night from a guy named Vinnie in my neighborhood to buy bitcoins. I am sure this will work out.

That is correct, however BTC is also priced in GPB, EUR etc

You can argue that as the global currency everything is priced in USD. So GBP only buys you stuff because it has a dollar exchange rate. Its tenuous, but this is *your* logic...

Now the man in the street in the UK does not care about the USD value of his GBP. He just uses GBP.

Interestingly, if that same man travels to the USA, or to Europe. They convert their native currency to the local currency, so as they may transact, but in their head they typically do a quick reckoning whenever they see a local price to convert it to their native price so that they may get an intuitive understanding of what the local price actually means to them.

So the act of converting between one abstract currency to another is inherent. Now imagine the man in the street isn't on holiday, but has moved to the USA. How long before he starts thinking in dollars?

All of this demonstrates quite adequately that whilst your point that BTC has a dollar value is correct. What it also proves, which you won't like at all, is that if you consider the internet a "country" and BTC as its native currency (which is exactly what it is - read the white paper) then you have a situation where an economy will develop. That nascent economy has developed, whether you like it or not. You can argue from the rooftops that it is going to fail, but you cannot deny its existence.

The more you shout and the more the bitcoin economy develops, the more crazy you sound.

... Deadcon is a shill or a seriously uneducated person.

What you guys fail to understand bitcoin is not a currency itself, it is just a tool for transacting currency. When you send someone 1 btc, or when you buy something  with bitcoin, what you're doing is you're sending him 320 dollars via bitcoin, you're sending him purchasing power of dollar.
Bitcoin is not independent of fiat.  Actually, fiat is what gives bitcoin a value.

This is because for now fiat is more important. But things change.
The difference is that if poeple really wanted fiat in the first place bitcoin would not exist.
So what you want is purchasing power and means to keep it or transfer it.
Now we use fiat to price things, we will see how long that will hold.

Yeah but nobody has a car/tv/telephone/computer...

you do not want fiat you want purchasing power.
Would you rather have 5$ in fiat or btc in a world where a house cost 5$
or 10000 $ in fiat or btc in a world where a house cost 20 000$?
this market is the casino as much as anything else, even wages... you just change the odds and possible outcome.

Great way to make your point.

I'll go with 5 btc worth $10000, you pelican.

I come back to these forums every few months just to look.

Always the same angry losers that lost money due to their own incompetence and impatience.

..and the same paid troll outsourcers in Pakistan and India spamming their nonsense.

I'm sorry, MatTheCat and others like him. But if you buy into ANYTHING anticipating a 1000% return and didn't consider that you could potentially lose 50% or more over the short term, I don't know what to tell you. You have no business investing at all. You might as well be in a casino. Casinos exist for people like you.

Apparently I'm a "bulltard", "cultist" and "bagholder". I'll keep doing what I do, which is to acquire as many BTC as possible through arbitrage and Bitcoin related businesses.

You guys keep doing what you do: Being angry and bitter because you didn't get rich overnight with your 1 BTC investment.

I'll be back in a few months. Enjoy the ride, everyone.

Momentum allready dead. It looks more and more like we are in a bulltrap / deadcatbounce.
Can some experts like Falling concur?

I think in the short term they may continue to be pain, but in the long term all the things that are causing pain (i.e. merchant adoption causing merchants to dump BTC) will end up getting BTC adopted enough to a point where it's value will skyrocket.  Unfortunately I think legal rules and regulations haven't really caught up to BTC and as of right now the IRS' rules have an unfortunate depressant effect on the price.  But I have faith that this will be worked out as governments grapple with cryptocurrency.  Bitcoin is here to stay and it *will* be worth so much more someday, it's just not clear when that day will come.

In the meantime load up on cheap coins while you can.  I do think that once ETFs come into play though there will be a jump in price from larger investors moving in.

The ask side looks bad.
I very much doubt we will go up much more.
This bear market is far from over. And i have no idea what could fuel a bull market any time soon.

300+ Obvious.

You have been warned

But really, there was such a topic about cheap 2-digit coins some 8 months ago. And the topic about cheap single digit coins a year ago. And they both seemed funny at the moment. Guess where are those now? In the history books.

It depends which exchange you look at. Bitstamp's current low is 301.0, maybe it's lower somewhere else.