Why bother counting the coins , when they can go over individuals. It's like a bank going to track all the papers bills I deposit instead of looking to my account withdraws and deposits.
Put a label on an address and attach it to a person. The the person is responsible how he spends the money. And how he gets it. You receive money from unknown source? 1) give them back 2) use them which makes you guilty It's already happening and this works with credit cards right? Why not with bitcoins.
I see the whole damns txid as a way to complicate everything.
Also this version defeats every mixing / dark wallet services.
wrong. government do not ask people to write their name and post code on every bank note they use. all they ask is businesses receiving large amounts or amounts from black listed entities to be refused service and/or reported. banks can check serial numbers and see that one day 2 years ago that bank note may have come from the whore house in las vegas. it wont show the identity of everyone using the coins in between. the same applies to coinvalidation they will have a database of complying businesses and hopefully find the addresses of atlantis/silkroad and other underground services. then shops can check to see if funds came from legit businesses, were mined or came RECENTLY from underground services. to access the risk of accepting the fundsyou mean the risk of accepting dirty bitcoin that will later be rejected by another business, thanks to your efforts. i may not know exactly how this project will work and how it will initially effect users. but the red flags are full on, and i'm not the only one seeing them. maybe you'r to in love with your wonderful idea to see how destructive it could become. destructive? coinvalidation is not government, they are business advisors. it will only affect users who are silly enough to withdraw funds from a coinvalidated known blackmarket and directly put funds into a exchange to withdraw into fiat.. the service wont ask you to register all of YOUR pubkeys. it is purely a database for good and bad businesses. so there are many ways YOU can mix your coins before entering or exiting a market/business and if someone pays me from a coinvalidated known blackmarket, directly to my exchange wallet ( i often have payment go directly to my ewallet ) what will happen to me? what will happen to my funds? please answer me.
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I suggest we red-list Mike Hearn for his position in the foundation. Let Mike just keep quiet about this in public. We haven't heard anything from law enforcement yet. Wait until we hear from the panel in the upcoming Senate hearings. If they suggest controls, then it will be time to consider options. Otherwise, we have no need to implement a blacklist, redlist, or any other restriction.
Wtf is wrong with you? No one cares about your mofo US senate. Nothing has to be changed. Fuck USA! Take it easy, man. It might be a misunderstanding going on here their is no misunderstanding a project has been proposed and NO ONE wants it. nothing else matters.
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The Bitcoin Foundation starting to show its true colors..
I do not think they are lobbying for Bitcoin user's best interests, but instead to promote their own agenda.
is the entire Foundation onboard with this idea???
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blacklisting/redlisting will destroy Bitcoin.
the real question is, can it even been done?
yes it can, but it will 100% of the time NOT be affective, the criminals will know that their coins are red-listed , and they will find ways of dumping these coins on innocent poeple fast, very fast....
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eh eh eh, what happens then?
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Why bother counting the coins , when they can go over individuals. It's like a bank going to track all the papers bills I deposit instead of looking to my account withdraws and deposits.
Put a label on an address and attach it to a person. The the person is responsible how he spends the money. And how he gets it. You receive money from unknown source? 1) give them back 2) use them which makes you guilty It's already happening and this works with credit cards right? Why not with bitcoins.
I see the whole damns txid as a way to complicate everything.
Also this version defeats every mixing / dark wallet services.
wrong. government do not ask people to write their name and post code on every bank note they use. all they ask is businesses receiving large amounts or amounts from black listed entities to be refused service and/or reported. banks can check serial numbers and see that one day 2 years ago that bank note may have come from the whore house in las vegas. it wont show the identity of everyone using the coins in between. the same applies to coinvalidation they will have a database of complying businesses and hopefully find the addresses of atlantis/silkroad and other underground services. then shops can check to see if funds came from legit businesses, were mined or came RECENTLY from underground services. to access the risk of accepting the fundsyou mean the risk of accepting dirty bitcoin that will later be rejected by another business, thanks to your efforts. i may not know exactly how this project will work and how it will initially effect users. but the red flags are full on, and i'm not the only one seeing them. maybe you'r to in love with your wonderful idea to see how destructive it could become. destructive? coinvalidation is not government, they are business advisors. it will only affect users who are silly enough to withdraw funds from a coinvalidated known blackmarket and directly put funds into a exchange to withdraw into fiat.. the service wont ask you to register all of YOUR pubkeys. it is purely a database for good and bad businesses. so there are many ways YOU can mix your coins before entering or exiting a market/business and if someone pays me from a coinvalidated known blackmarket, directly to my exchange wallet ( i often have payment go directly to my ewallet ) what will happen to me? what will happen to my funds?
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Why bother counting the coins , when they can go over individuals. It's like a bank going to track all the papers bills I deposit instead of looking to my account withdraws and deposits.
Put a label on an address and attach it to a person. The the person is responsible how he spends the money. And how he gets it. You receive money from unknown source? 1) give them back 2) use them which makes you guilty It's already happening and this works with credit cards right? Why not with bitcoins.
I see the whole damns txid as a way to complicate everything.
Also this version defeats every mixing / dark wallet services.
wrong. government do not ask people to write their name and post code on every bank note they use. all they ask is businesses receiving large amounts or amounts from black listed entities to be refused service and/or reported. banks can check serial numbers and see that one day 2 years ago that bank note may have come from the whore house in las vegas. it wont show the identity of everyone using the coins in between. the same applies to coinvalidation they will have a database of complying businesses and hopefully find the addresses of atlantis/silkroad and other underground services. then shops can check to see if funds came from legit businesses, were mined or came RECENTLY from underground services. to access the risk of accepting the fundsyou mean the risk of accepting dirty bitcoin that will later be rejected by another business, thanks to your efforts. i may not know exactly how this project will work and how it will initially effect users. but the red flags are full on, and i'm not the only one seeing them. maybe you'r to in love with your wonderful idea to see how destructive it could become.
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i tried to avoid alot of waffle in the last post, but it seems more explanation is needed so, replying to all the people that read a newspaper and take what is wrote as gospel: STOP, CALM DOWN, RELAX. now let me explain more detail of what my last post did not explain. ignore the Forbes newspaper article and peoples opinions on what it means for bitcoin users. because it only causes chinese whispers. now then: coinvalidation does NOT want identification from every bitcoin USER link: https://coinvalidation.com/PDF_FOR_BITCOIN_USERS.pdfcoin validation wants to advise bitcoin businesses on how to become FIAT compliant, which will only affect bitcoin businesses that exchange bitcoin for DOLLARS, either for customers or for their own internal business needs. link: https://coinvalidation.com/PDF_FOR_BITCOIN_BUSINESSES.pdfpart of this is to build up a database of clean addresses of legitimate and compliant BUSINESSES not users. and a lidt of known black market withdrawal addresses. this is so that while the "anonymous cash" still is not directly linked to an identity, government can see the source of the cash. EG is it just 2 hops away from being mined. is it just 2 hops from being sourced from a compliant and legitimate business (clean addresses) or is it just 2 hops from a known black market. now a bit deeper detail everyone knows that there are only 12million coins thus far , and that in 2012 silk road transacted more then this amount over the year, meaning a large majority of well circulated coins has at some point been tainted atleast once. this means that exchanges (being the central points of cashing in-out, profiting, etc, etc) would have alot of their mixed up pot of funds showing up as tainted. this does not make them dirty or illegal. all coinvalidation want to do is to have a database of fully compliant BUSINESS public keys so that when customers withdraw funds, and use them elsewhere, shops can see that they were sourced from a legitimate exchange, a miner or another legitimate business. giving the shops the freedom to accept other coins based on the taint level risk EG if a coin is only 1 hop away from a known silk road address, they can refuse service if they chose to, based on the risk. it is not about identifying the world population and investigating every user. only those that want to deal with FIAT, which has never changed for decades of government rules now take your tin foil hats off, if you actually read the government compliance rules (most established countries rules are very similar) governments do not accept/ reject/investigate every fiat transaction of every business. they request businesses to assess the risk and if deemed obvious as illegally used funds, to then and only then report it to serious crimes departments of government. this puts the onus on businesses to say "hang on these coins are only 1 hop away from a silk road pubkey" and for the business to then look into the risk of it being a 'serious crime' before sending or not sending info to the government. EG (A) pawnbroker in detroit. some guy comes in with a $20 bill that literally smells of drugs, he wants to buy a bit of bling. risk level of serious crime: low, requirement for AMLKYC: no EG (B) pawnbroker in detroit. some guy comes in with a $20,000 of bills he wants to buy a gold bar. risk level of serious crime: low Requirement of AMLKYC: yes EG (C) pawnbroker in detroit. some guy comes in with a $20,000 of bills that smelled of drugs and he wants to buy a gold bar. risk level of serious crime: high Requirement of AMLKYC: yes (A)the pawn broker would accept or reject the $20 based on risk, no ID required, much like any shop selling cigarettes, grocerys, etc. (B)the pawn broker would ask for ID and other info from the $20k sale, still letting it through after the pawn broker does a quick check that the $20k serial numbers are not blacklisted. (C)the pawn broker would request ID and check serial numbers of the drug tainted notes and make the decision to either refuse service, to report the customer, or to accept the risk and allow the sale. (third option is ill advised as it could affect the businesses licence status). the coinvalidation service is not about getting people to write their name and zipcode onto every banknote they use, meaning that coinvalidation is not asking for identity information from every transaction and every public key. they just want to build up a BUSINESS listing of known legit businesses and illecit businesses thus able to trace back where the funds originated. Thank you for bringing more details about this project. altho your intentions seem ok, I do believe you are on a slippery slope, so dont slip! I really don't see why do you need to keep a DB of dirty coins, tho, can the businesses just see if the person myself " literally smells of drugs " and make a decision based on that. JUST like he would handle someone buying something with gold. no, this project should NOT include a DB of tainted coins, you compile the DB and we will retaliate. Edit: my coins are probably 100% clean, and i do not live in the US, so maybe i shouldn't really care very much about this, but i do, let the FBI do this is they like.
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Hubby, you know what I am going to say about all this right? Why didn't we buy more sooner? ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I know. I just need to shut-up and be thankful for the coin we have and enjoy the ride. It is just starting to speed up it looks like! please tell me you have more than 1 coin. One is enough isn't it? ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Compared to some people on this board we are not big holders, unfortunately. We just were on the fence about how much to buy at $48 like a week or two before the April run up and did not put much money into it then. It was a bit unnerving buying any back then and we did not take advantage of the opportunity like I wish we would have. I keep telling my husband every day, "I wish we would have bought more sooner." He is getting sick of hearing it now. ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) no, sadly, one is not enough.
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Hubby, you know what I am going to say about all this right? Why didn't we buy more sooner? ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I know. I just need to shut-up and be thankful for the coin we have and enjoy the ride. It is just starting to speed up it looks like! please tell me you have more than 1 coin.
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I just witnessed on Gox a single massive 1.4 K sell at once at 430 dropping all the way down to 405. Damn. It's good to see how bitcoin isn't affected by this kind of things any more. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) and yet it bounced RIGHT back up to 430. I don't have the numbers off hand to back this up, but it seems like the April-May rise would have been seriously affected by such a sell even for a few hours. This time around it's almost like these dumps don't happen. Am I crazy for feeling this to be the case? no this is indeed the case. the "bubble pop" happened on very little volume, everyone let that knife fall. no one is letting the kinfe fall today... ( might be because the chinese promiss to buy ALL the bitcoin for mtgox price +10% ![Tongue](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) )
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mainly its china, they are literally sucking up all the bitcoins, supply is starting to run dry in the west, and the chinese are still nowhere near satisfied.
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I just witnessed on Gox a single massive 1.4 K sell at once at 430 dropping all the way down to 405. Damn. It's good to see how bitcoin isn't affected by this kind of things any more. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) and yet it bounced RIGHT back up to 430. but bitcoincharts says the low was 415 Yup, was 415. Still a nice little sell-off kk just making sure, not that it would have made any difference. 405 still would not have come close to breaking these crazy bullish technicals. ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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I just witnessed on Gox a single massive 1.4 K sell at once at 430 dropping all the way down to 405. Damn. It's good to see how bitcoin isn't affected by this kind of things any more. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) and yet it bounced RIGHT back up to 430. but bitcoincharts says the low was 415
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Whoa, where did those walls come from?
Richy_T changed the y-axis min/max so we could see the depth better
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this is much better thank you Richy_T
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BTW I was one of the only people to call the last spike a bubble when it was happening, took a lot of heat for it, but was ultimately correct and bought back in for around $70 - giving me more than double the coins I had previous to the post. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=169651.0so at least I have a track record - on record. only this time I will be very cautious about buying back in, I have traded many chinese "instruments" (which is basically what bitcoin is now), and I can tell you straight up that they are crazy, the go to even more extremes than western markets - in both the up and the down. I think it goes with the asian culture of feeling more comfortable being in a group, they seem to have less of a sense of individuality, so they are even more comfortable in a herd mentality. But that is just my psyche 101 on them, it could be BS. Good job selling over $100 before the top. Certainly a record worth bragging about ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) . Unfortunately I do not have a time machine like everyone else on bitcointalk. Like I said earlier when we see the top, I am sure everyone on this forum will post they sold within $10 of the top. Meanwhile where is your trade log showing how you doubled the amount of coins you owned through trading? Perhaps you can use your time machine to go back in time and fix that?and violate the temporal prime directive? no f'n way!
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oh nice
ok so i was only 4 hours off
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“This needs to exist for regulators to approve of use of Bitcoin in the U.S.,” says Waters. “We don’t want to be the sheriff of the Bitcoin community. We just want to create an ecosystem of clean addresses.”
In the short term, they talk about a limited database that keeps track only of registered identities and their activities with participating companies, but it’s obvious that their ambitions are grander and that a longer term prospect is to take advantage of the transparency of the Bitcoin system to keep track of which Bitcoin is tainted by associations with black markets. Waters says that the development of that aspect will depend on “community feedback.” can we stop this?
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If I have understood correctly it´s up to miners/pools which version of bitcoinid they will accept / take in use. I hope all privacy violating possible future versions will be rejected and development will be taken over. There are talented people all over the world to replace the gore dev team if required.
this project will probably be independent from the bitcoin protocol, it will track coins, and tell merchant whether or not a coin is "valid" will one of the devs please say something!question 1) WHY!? question 2) you are FIRED!
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