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11661  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Wolf's XMR/BCN/MNT CPUMiner - 2x speed compared to LucasJones' - FASTER on: June 12, 2014, 11:47:26 PM
4770k at stock clocks 250h/s at T-4
2600 non K at stock clocks 234 h/s at t-4

its nothing to do with a fan base, its at current the more powerful miner that supplys the highest output.

Nobody seems to be doing careful testing with complete environment data so we can't be sure, but there is a screen shot for this miner showing >300 on a 4770k. I have no idea if that is overclocked or anything else difficult to reproduce.




i dare say overclocked, or in linux which works better for cpu mineing from what i have gathered.

Yeah I don't really understand why Linux would be faster, and I can't come up with a good reason for it, but I never use Windows any more so it isn't something I'm going to work on.

Because the Windows kernel is retarded and won't take hints.

No, seriously. I can give the linux kernel a hint about how I'm going to be using the memory and how it should handle it. It is, of course, free to ignore me, but it usually doesn't, resulting in faster accesses.

The access pattern hints only matter for virtual memory that gets paged, which shouldn't happen. The prefill hint might matter, but only during warmup, after that they should be the same. The hugepage stuff should result in the same speed on Windows as Linux, if everything is working correctly, though I understand this is trickier to arrange on Windows. There might be other issues, such as how threading is being handled, I'm not sure.

I'm pretty sure a good Windows programmer could fix this (as claymore appears to have done) but I'm not one by choice so I can't directly help.



11662  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bounty for open source ByteCoin/Monero pool on: June 12, 2014, 11:43:30 PM
I am offering a 100 XMR bounty for adding merged mining support into node-cryptonote-pool. I'm thinking the password could be used for FCN address.. Or perhaps a new mining parameter could be added for merged mining addresses?

So it is actually possible ?

Of course it is possible.

Also, you can probably just encode the addresses right into the username using commas or something.

However, bear in mind that merged mining with Monero is somewhat illegitimate and a bit of an exploit, since the community voted against it, but amphibian disregarded that and implemented it anyway. Attitudes on the Monero team on the matter range from indifferent to opposed (I'm pretty sure no one actively supports it). So you might be wasting your money if Monero removes support for merged mining, which might happen, though I don't see this as a priority right now. Merged mining support in the pool software could still be used with Bytecoin (and QCN), in any case.



11663  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Wolf's XMR/BCN/MNT CPUMiner - 2x speed compared to LucasJones' - FASTER on: June 12, 2014, 11:36:50 PM
4770k at stock clocks 250h/s at T-4
2600 non K at stock clocks 234 h/s at t-4

its nothing to do with a fan base, its at current the more powerful miner that supplys the highest output.

Nobody seems to be doing careful testing with complete environment data so we can't be sure, but there is a screen shot for this miner showing >300 on a 4770k. I have no idea if that is overclocked or anything else difficult to reproduce.




i dare say overclocked, or in linux which works better for cpu mineing from what i have gathered.

Yeah I don't really understand why Linux would be faster, and I can't come up with a good reason for it, but I never use Windows any more so it isn't something I'm going to work on.
11664  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: June 12, 2014, 11:34:26 PM
In regards to colored coins built using the open-assets protocol, what aspects of the security model make you skeptical?  Are you concerned with a possible problem in the protocol, or the concept itself?

The concept itself. I doubt that attaching non-trivial value to an arbitrary attribute such as color can be secure. In fact one of my biggest doubts about bitcoin is that this sort of non-fungibility might ultimately destroy it, and only systems with stronger fungibility (zerocash, etc.) can survive.

11665  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Wolf's XMR/BCN/MNT CPUMiner - 2x speed compared to LucasJones' - FASTER on: June 12, 2014, 11:20:29 PM
4770k at stock clocks 250h/s at T-4
2600 non K at stock clocks 234 h/s at t-4

its nothing to do with a fan base, its at current the more powerful miner that supplys the highest output.

Nobody seems to be doing careful testing with complete environment data so we can't be sure, but there is a screen shot for this miner showing >300 on a 4770k. I have no idea if that is overclocked or anything else difficult to reproduce.


11666  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - Secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: June 12, 2014, 11:13:34 PM
The Wallet I was mentioning was the Mac OS X 10.9 GUI Wallet:

If it is cross platform, maintainable and open source you might get crowd funding for it. Otherwise I doubt it. Best to stick with the 0.2% fee until a free GUI wallet becomes available. I frankly doubt 0.2% is going to net you much over that time period but everyone has a right to pick his own business model.




11667  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - Secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: June 12, 2014, 08:47:53 PM
Is there a fundamental problem in Monero system and pool implementation on minergate.com ?
In last 20h all blocks found there have rewards between 0.3 and 2.5XMR
This is absurd to be claimed for "bad luck"
Take a look https://minergate.com/pool-stats/mro

Minergate is screwing themselves and you by running obsolete code. Switch to a better pool.

11668  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: June 12, 2014, 06:55:02 AM
What I don't understand is how one can benefit using an alt-coin platform to issue digital tokens (shares, bonds, vouchers, etc), when this is possible using bitcoin directly (colored coins / open-assets protocol).  Is it just that some altcoins are further along in their user interfaces?

The hugely beneficial thing about colored coins (in addition to not requiring one to purchase an altcoin) is that they can be traded in a trustless p2p manner for bitcoins (using coinjoin). 

I'm skeptical of the security model of either, unless the asset exchange is merely a toy for assets with negligible value (say microcap scam stocks).

11669  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Wolf's XMR/BCN/MNT CPUMiner - 2x speed compared to LucasJones' - FASTER on: June 12, 2014, 06:49:29 AM
is this faster then claymores cpu miner?? wolf you should try and make a gpu miner thats faster and more stable.    😃

Claymore has a CPU miner? Link me.

I don't see why it would be since it claims 270 H/s on a 4770 and this one claims 300+, and on top of that Claymore takes 5% of your hash rate. I guess Claymore has a fan base though, so perhaps people use it.

His low CPU mode looks interesting though, I wonder what that is doing.

11670  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Monero Economy on: June 12, 2014, 05:02:30 AM
Goddamnit no. All of the critics are wrong. PoW coins are not created out of thin air. It costs thousands of dollars in computing power to mine a single block, and that doesn't even include the computing costs of all the miners that didn't win the block. That is real, intrinsic value.

Sort of. First off, the cost to mine a block does not exclude the miners who didn't get a block. They'll get another block, covering their costs.

Second, there is no direct link between the cost to mine a block and the value of the block, except insofar as the market creates one. That's essentially Satoshi's model. Instead of trying to peg the value of the coin to some intrinsic value, you set the value of a block at 50 otherwise-worthless credits, and let the market adjust.

But in theory, the market can adjust to just about anything, as other coins have shown. As long as the coin doesn't fail altogether, then the market has adjusted to its reward schedule, and non-failed coins with all sorts of reward structures exist. So you can't really argue the reward structure must be one way or another on this basis.

The argument for non-trivial perpetual rewards is that coins without them would actually fail. Miners wouldn't mine, or would only do so under conditions that are otherwise viewed as dysfunctional, such as monopolization and transaction hoarding. That's somewhat speculative, but I do think it is pretty clearly possible to set up a coin that fails. If it is possible to do by design it is also possible to do so by mistake, and perhaps easier.







11671  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Monero Economy on: June 12, 2014, 04:05:15 AM
Forgive me for saying this again, but using inflation as a means to pay miners (or anyone else) sounds a lot like a government "trick".

It is, in a way, except that it's exactly Satoshi's trick that makes these coins possible. Since the network has no access to resources from outside the network, it can only rely on internal resources to reward miners. Which basically comes down to issuing coins out of thin air. No one disputes that this is how PoW coins work. The only issue is what happens "in a long time" when the rewards diminish to near zero or zero.

If you don't like issuing coins out of thin air, then you really can't like Satoshi-style PoW coins. You wouldn't be alone, BTW, there are plenty of critics.


Obviously there is a difference between issuing coins until certain max cap is reached (or at least tending towards a limit - as in calculus -), and issuing coins forever at an ever growing rate (which is what happens when you set a % of inflation).

One resembles the mining of gold, the other one is exactly like fiat.

It's not like exactly like fiat regardless of the inflation number, as you correctly explained, because the rules can't be changed, at least not without some sort of consensus. They certainly can't be changed "by fiat."
11672  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Monero Economy on: June 12, 2014, 03:49:15 AM
Forgive me for saying this again, but using inflation as a means to pay miners (or anyone else) sounds a lot like a government "trick".

It is, in a way, except that it's exactly Satoshi's trick that makes these coins possible. Since the network has no access to resources from outside the network, it can only rely on internal resources to reward miners. Which basically comes down to issuing coins out of thin air. No one disputes that this is how PoW coins work. The only issue is what happens "in a long time" when the rewards diminish to near zero or zero.

If you don't like issuing coins out of thin air, then you really can't like Satoshi-style PoW coins. You wouldn't be alone, BTW, there are plenty of critics.
11673  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Monero Economy on: June 12, 2014, 01:37:55 AM
Ok, you say it forces consolidation. That doesn't seem intuitive at all. Do you have any evidence for it? All PoW coins seem to favor consolidation. I don't think it has anything to do with the relation between fees and inflation. Can you elaborate on this?

In a competitive market prices converge to marginal cost. In the case of transactions, this includes things like the cost of electricity to actually verify the transactions as valid, bandwidth, and the increased risk of orphans if you include more transactions in your block. It does not include the cost of performing proof-of-work. The only way miners who are "paid by transactions" are able get paid for performing proof-of-work is by overcharging by the transactions themselves, and they can only do this if they have some sort of market power. Thus it is impossible for mining to be competitive if proof-of-work is paid by transaction fees. It also results in further destructive incentives, as miners try to scoop up and horde transactions (for example using a sybil attack), since transactions are no longer competitively priced, but no represent a source of profit to be "mined."

There is also the free rider argument. If long-term-holders just hold and don't perform transactions (i.e. generate fees), miners won't do work, and the block chain won't be secure. The holders could do the mining themselves, but again only if they collude. Individually the incentive is for each holder to sit out and let the others holders pay the costs. The higher transactions fees go (to pay for proof of work, remember?), the greater the incentive to just sit on your coins and not pay them. This only reaches an equilibrium if some individual or group acquires all or most of the long-term holdings, so that individual or group can pay the mining costs without being exploited by free riders. Failing that, you have insufficient security, and likely such a coin will never become very successful (this includes bitcoin, although I think its possible now that bitcoin becomes a version of fiat).

So no structural mining reward means either extreme concentration of power, either in mining or holdings or both. One way to look at a structural reward is a consensus among the holders to share costs (since all holdings are being diluted by inflation) instead of relying on individual decisions to incur costs and suffer from a free rider problem.

Pricing remains an issue though, as no one has come up with a good model for how much mining should be performed, and how it should be paid for. "None" is clearly wrong though, in the proof-of-work model. Using proof-of-stake (if that can be made to actually work) or something else is another question.



11674  Economy / Goods / Re: i want to buy gold or silver on: June 12, 2014, 12:53:23 AM
I have had zero luck trying to do this locally through craigslist. I've had several responses to my ad, they all seem to disappear when I make it clear I know how to authenticate what I'm buying. Likely scams. Be careful.

11675  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - Secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: June 12, 2014, 12:39:51 AM
At least all this trouble people have with payment IDs goes to show that XMR is anonymous by default, an extra process is required to make a payment identifiable
Not necessarily. The reason a Payment ID is needed is because all the payments go to one address.

That's kind of my point, if you have a bunch of payments going to a single address there isnt a way to identify them unless a separate ID is provided. I know that's a simplification but the default behaviour of the wallet protects a new user's identity, unlike Bitcoin and its children where a careless transaction could make your activities identifiable.

True, but that's not really the reason. In fact most exchanges recommend sending payments with a mixin of 0, which means the sender is not really anonymous.

The reason for the difference in handling of deposits is that bitcoin (and clone) wallets make it easy to create one more more new deposit addresses for each user account. Deposits can then be identified by the address to which they are sent. This coin does not make that easy, so the payment ID mechanism is required.

11676  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Monero Economy on: June 12, 2014, 12:23:22 AM
I don't really see how moving coins to yourself is good for the economy. In fact it seems like a waste of resources, though the benefit of certainly over lost coins might be worth it.

It's not.  But keeping coins moving is.  Any waste of resources in this instance is negligible.  But I am more likely to spend coins if I am consciously aware of them as a resource, as would be required in order to move them.  The good for the economy part is emission which compensates for lost coins.  They will have higher velocity than average.

Inflation is not an incentive to spend unless you are forced into using only that currency, like governments do to their own people.

Do you have plans on forcing everyone to use Monero? Because if you don't, this will fail. I love everything about this coin, except for the inflation. And I talked to many bitcoiners and they independently arrived to the same opinion.

One of the main uses for Bitcoin that a lot of people like, is as a store of value. It rewards saving, like gold, as opposed to what fiat does, which punishes saving and responsible spending.

This also has ethical implications, like supporting or not consumerism and its ecological impact. Why do you want to force people into buying things they don't need? The economy can't grow undefinitely, sometimes it has to shrink for the benefit of the world and all of us. If someone is selling a product that people don't need anymore, what's wrong with him moving into something else? Why not "force" him into building things we need (if anything at all), instead of forcing us into buying them anyway? Inflation goes against the free market in that sense.

Also, if you want the price to go up, there's nothing better than having people use it as a store of value. Being able to use the currency (utility) also drives the price up, though not immediately (but the good news can have a fast effect). Forcing people into spending it won't. And it will certainly not attract new savers.

I come at this not from a macroeconomic point of view (I consider virtually all macroeconomics to be junk science) but from a practical one. I want to continue to pay miners without relying on transaction fees, because the latter forces consolidation, and worse, to give miners the market power to charge more than marginal cost. 

If you don't have inflation (or demurrage, which I consider equivalent) how are you going to pay miners?

11677  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [duck] duckNote [ANN]. CryptoNote based. Anonymous and CPU only. on: June 11, 2014, 11:40:31 PM
been using miner gate on 3 macs and a pc, currently up to 500k duck note, seeing figures of multiple millions on here?  is solo mining much better than miner gate?

Not really. Just people with more computers than you.
11678  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: [duck] duckNote trading thread | Bid 0 / Ask 3 / Last 2.857 on: June 11, 2014, 11:30:44 PM
Is anything actually happening with this coin? All I see is sell orders getting cheaper. Why should I buy more of this coin? Please someone tell me.

Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.
11679  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - Secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: June 11, 2014, 11:14:17 PM
Can somebody compare boolberry and monero for me? Not sure what one's advantage is over the others. I see that monero uses CryptoNight algo while boolberry uses Wild Keccak..

You'll probably get a better answer on the BBR thread. Monero is essentially a "vanilla" Cryptonote-based coin, based closely on the bytecoin "reference implementation" (though it has already diverged and will continue to diverge). BBR made a bunch of user-visiable changes, along with changing the PoW function.
11680  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: [duck] duckNote trading thread | Bid 0 / Ask 3 / Last 2.857 on: June 11, 2014, 10:39:04 PM
Supersedes all previous offers

selling 30m for 0.8 BTC (30m minimum) expires end of day UTC 6/12
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