Второе — некое физическое место в России, где можно "употребить" BTC.

А какой из переводов "BTC spending" сюда больше подходит?

Кто-нибудь знает сколько сейчас в России майнеров? Хотелось бы как-нибудь с кем-нибудь из них пообщаться относительно развития России как популярного местa сбыта BTC — т.е. место, куда можно было бы легко приехать, погостить (ну или как следует потусить), слить накопленные биткоины и уехать (с большой улыбкой на лице). Прост устал я уже от GOLD 2.0 трезвона — хотелось бы заняться чем-нибудь поистине уникальным, ну и конечно же рентабельным.

That's exactly it!... Thanks for restating my main point in such short and precise form.

To bitcoin miners: You’ve already made the headlines... It’s time to make history!


I’m hoping to join forces with a number of bitcoin miners in a large-scale effort to create/develop a flourishing BTC-based economy, where the value of a freshly-mined bitcoin is not determine by some arbitrary pump and dump scheme, but by the value of goods and services that can be purchased with BTC directly, around the world.

Unlike many members of the bitcoin community who had already reduced bitcoin’s value proposition to nothing more than a medium for transfer, I’ve always been and continue to be an avid proponent of BTC becoming a reserve currency of the future. Yes, I know this sounds somewhat unrealistic, considering the very scale of such undertaking, but unless you approach the inner-workings of bitcoin from a perspective that's different from the one offered by popular economic theories, you will not appreciate the true beauty of Satoshi’s creation.

If you are a bitcoin miner and not excited by the idea of bitcoin’s future being reduced to nothing more than a “medium for transfer” or even a GOLD 2.0 trust fund, I'm keen to discuss with you the prospects of us working together on bringing back to reality this somewhat "unrealistic" vision I've summarized above.


P.S. This project will eventually involve us setting up and running a number of formal business entities around the world, with a parent company to be established in the United States from the start.

You should not attempt to describe the workings of bitcoin economy with a standard economic theory, because your interpretations will always be wrong.

BTC is a completely new form of money and thus requires the application of its own economic theory when describing what drives its value up or down.

And it's definitely not the currency exchange rates that create deflation and inflation in a BTC-based economy. It's the BTC spending that does it.

It's also worth noting that when we talk about exchange rate fluctuations, we imply appreciation/depreciation, not inflation/deflation.

Are there any bitcoin miners who would consider commissioning the following project: Bringing a bunch of mainstream artists together for a cause, by hosting a concert where Bitcoin miners community is the main sponsor? Just think about how many types of people would get paid in BTC and then spend those BTCs right there by buying posters, drinks, food, etc.

The best part about this is that all prices will be quoted solely in BTC... We're talking about thousands of transactions without any dependence on currency exchange markets -- a true indication/representation of a viable currency and a growing BTC-based economy... And that's just one example of how to create a widespread deflation in a bitcoin economy.

What other projects are you willing to commission to create deflation for your less than $3 bitcoins?

Only if you can find someone who is willing to pay you a salary of at least 200BTC ($600 at $3/BTC exchange rate).

Probably because BTC's underlying value (not the exchange rate) is less than $3 at this point.

So, converting a $-based salary into bitcoins would be a bad deal at today's exchange rates.

Note the question to which he had provided the answer.

His answer relates to economic expansion first and foremost,
not just to bitcoin's divisibility (currently set to 8 decimal places).

Oh... Now I see where our viewpoints diverge... When discussing inflation/deflation you are referring to the appreciation/depreciation of one currency against the other, whereas I'm referring to the appreciation/depreciation of a currency against the value of goods and services it is used to buy (as measured by the demand and supply of those goods and services, independent of any given currency). Thus, my argument about there not being a BTC-based deflation without the increase in BTC spending basically comes down to the notion that we can't say whether BTC is deflating or inflating unless it is being used to buy goods and services directly.

To tell you the truth, your statement caught me off-guard for quite some time.  Nevertheless, after a few sips of some fine cuban rum and a wisdom spark, I think I may have found just the right words to clarify my initial position. So, here it goes. Ready? Let us first agree on the following play of words... If trading USD for BTC can be considered buying BTC, then trading BTC for USD will be considered buying USD. Does this sounds about right? So, if by buying BTC you would be engaged in demand creation for BTC, then by buying USD you would be engaged in demand creation for USD... But where is the value creation in that?

By trading one currency (say BTC) for another (say USD) you are merely engaging in the transfer of some assumed value between those currencies, and nothing more. Now, if the underlying value (not to be confused with the exchange rates) of each such currency has not changed between the two back and forth transfers, then both transfers would simply cancel each other out. But if one currency's underlying value (BTC's) was suddenly projected to increase relative to another currency (USD's), then the exchange rate between the two currencies would eventually self-adjust (due to some market forces) to reflect that projection. And we all know what would happen then: you would receive back less BTC for every USD than what you had initially used to buy those USDs (when you initially transferred some assumed value from BTC to USD).

Hopefully these badly-structured sentences were somewhat helpful in shining some light on why the increase in the underlying value of a currency is derived from the assumptions/projections about the increase in economic activity, rather than the increase in trading activity (i.e. back and forth buying/selling BTCs for USDs). Unfortunately, the only way to increase economic activity in a market-driven economy is to increase consumption of products/services produced in that economy — this is what I call the increase in spending. And when it comes to BTC-based economics, deflation is just a pretentious way of saying inflation.

You don't have to take my word for it... Here's an explanation from the man himself.

That's exactly my point!!! Now, how long before we go back to an inflationary MMO currency?

Yes, something like that, except that GOLD 2.0 would probably continue to be the focus of the larger bitcoin community for many years to come... Until the community finally succeeds at creating yet another MMORPG economy, which will eventually become a ghost town when someone invents a much better MMORPG economy, offering bitcoin miners the opportunity to explore new technological advances in a GOLD 3.0 era.

And how exactly do you see this happening when hoarding seems to be everyone's favorite pastime? As you can see, lost coins don't drive BTC's deflation... No spending = no deflation.

Are you accounting for the fact that most of the miners would eventually move onto the next best thing (some alternative and profitable implementation of crypto-currency? Wouldn't all your bitcoins be lost then? Look, contrary to a popular believe in the GOLD 2.0 era, the pump and dump schemes (the drivers of USD/BTC exchange rates today) don't create deflation in BTC... The deflation in a BTC-based economy can only be created through increases in BTC spending, not through BTC trading. How many miners do you know who are spending their bitcoins like there's no tomorrow? Hoarding still seems to be the popular choice today.

Has it really come to this?... So far, the "coins lost" argument is out to be the best of all GOLD 2.0 arguments that have ever been brought up on this forum.

All you need to account for is that the current book value of a freshly-mined bitcoin is less than $3 a pop (an average cost of mining a single bitcoin). And just like you wouldn't pay more than $1 to own a dollar, it makes no sense to pay more than 1BTC to own a bitcoin. Trying to measure BTC's volatility is useless at this point since current USD/BTC exchange rate fluctuations are the result of various pump and dump schemes, which get executed whenever their administrators find themselves in the mood for some fun and/or profit. Nevertheless, feel free to try predicting mood swings of those administrators, that is if you know who they are.

It's in the works as we speak... Unfortunately, no bites yet... But, not to worry!

Oh miners, where are you? Here's where you can turn you useless GOLD 2.0 bars into useful BTC currency.



Likewise!