I wonder how they are pricing these and what the payment terms are for delivery 12 months out. They typically do a % at order placement and then the balance before shipment for bulk orders, right? Still very risky, 12 months is forever. Maybe they'd do credits if the profitability crashes like they did 2019...

Saw a listing for a minimum of 120 units delivered over 6 months starting Q3 '22. Asking $80/TH, so $11,200 each. 25% up front, 35% 6 months out, the remainder 1.5 months out.

Pretty impressive. The tweet says sales have begun, but there's no mention of it on their website.

I sent 7 APW9s to Myrig back in April, they said at the time it would around 2 weeks to repair the power supplies. A few weeks after they received them, they said they were waiting for parts to repair them. Fast forward 6 months, they still said they were waiting for parts so they declared them "unrepairable" and said they were going to return them to me, which at least they did at their own expense. The last communication I had with them was a week and a half ago, so they are there and receiving email. Looks like they are just ignoring new requests.

You get it from the electrician you hire to do this job... Are you trying to do this without a licensed electrician? That would be a horrible horrible horrible idea.

I'd guess descriptions of the breaker panels you are looking at are listing the maximum voltage that they are approved to carry. But that's a question for your electrician.

20-25EH seems high to me. I'm sure there are some operations still going, paying off whoever needed, but it's got to be difficult to keep a reasonably sized mine open when the government is shutting down power to manufacturing industries. If the average is 50W/th, that's around 500MW.

I guess there could be 5000 100KW mines that could slip under the radar though.

Yeah, in the case I was describing they would deliver the 7200V and you would be responsible for any equipment after that including your own transformer. Just the same as if you went with the 480V/277 and had your own transformer to step it down to 240. I've gone through the published rates for some areas in upstate NY, and this option is in their published rates, but I don't remember if 300KW was enough to qualify for the rate tier.

Is there an option of bringing in higher voltage? 300KW might not be enough for the power company to give you that option, but I think if you have the power company deliver the higher transmission line voltage and use your own stepdown transformer you can get better rates, and you can decide exactly what configuration and voltage you want. Could also set you up for easier expansion in the future.

Chip temps are way to high for 23deg room temp. Are the fans running at full speed during startup? They should be very loud. Like hard to have a conversation in the same room loud.

I'd start by flashing stock firmware. Probably best to flash it with a SD card rather than the GUI because whoever "refurbished" your miner may have put some nasty firmware on there and you might not be able to get rid of it through the GUI.

Looks like it is overheating. What is the room temperature where you're running it?

Also, what firmware is it running? 103deg C for the maximum chip temp seems too high. Thought it was normally 90deg C.

Can you post a screenshot of the status page?

lol, mikeywith just loves those 17 series. I think there are situations where it could be ok to buy some 2nd had 17 series, but at current prices, it doesn't make sense. Prices for used gear aren't much lower than new gear when you compare $/TH, so just buy the new stuff that comes with a warranty.

And with new 100TH miners running >3Kw instead of 2Kw, you'll need fewer circuits so it'll be a bit cheaper to get your wiring installed. But either way, you should make sure the wiring can support the newer gen miners. Probably doesn't cost much more to put in wire that can handle 30A rather than 20A.

Stock fans and PSUs on these are pretty darn good, so I'm not sure what could be gained by using different ones.

If it were me, I'd keep it simple and just have the electrician put in separate outlets on their own circuit for each miner. If you want to support 10 miners then put in 20 outlets, 10 circuits, 10 breakers. PDUs are expensive and don't really add much other than another point of failure.

For monitoring power use, I like these: https://www.ekmmetering.com/collections/smart-meters

The S17 and S17 Pro are identical, no hardware differences at all. They just select the hashboards that have the best efficiency for the Pro version, and the rest go to the non-pro.

The T17 used the identical chip, but put fewer of them in the same area (30 vs 48) with larger heatsinks so they could be run at higher frequencies at the expense of lower efficiency. Many T17s will run the same efficiency as an S17 when you drop the frequency and voltage. So with a bit of luck, your T17 might do 30TH or so at <40W/TH.

The S17+ was a redesign of the hashboard that used the newer version of the same chip, 1397AG vs the 1397AD for the S17/T17, and packed a bunch more chips on each hashboard. 65 chips for the S17+ hashboard vs 48 chips for the S17. I couldn't find any information on what the differences might be between AD and AG, but they seem to be interchangeable. I've replaced AD chips on S17s with AG chips and it worked fine. What I did see on the S17+ way more than the S17 was delamination of the copper plating on the top of the chip. The copper plating is what the heatsinks are soldered to, and when it delaminates the heatsink can come off with the copper with little force. If you ship a S17+ that has chips with copper delamination, it will likely show up at its destination with a bunch of heatsinks detached from their chips and jingling around loose. Which is how every one of the S17+s I've looked at arrived. Not sure if the delamination issue was more from the new chip version, or just from the higher possibility of excess heat caused by packing more chips into the same area. Could also be that the temperature got too high for too long during board assembly.

The T17+ was the same idea as the T17. I haven't looked at one in person but I'd guess they have the same delamination issues as the S17+.

The S17e was a completely different beast, different chip (1396), and an insane number of them on a single board, 135 chips per board. I took a look at a dead one for my host once and after seeing it in person I just sent it back to him. Looked like a complete nightmare to work on. But that was the only one I saw, and I didn't even take a chip off, so I don't really have any thoughts on them other than I don't want to mess with them.

Well at least go take a look at the transformer on the pole, they are normally marked with the KVA rating of the transformer. If it's under 40KVA you may have issues.

If you are having the power company bring in new service for your miners, you should let them know that you expect to be using 30KW continuously. At least in the US, standard residential service that gets installed these days is 240V 200A. But if you actually tried to use close to the full 200A continuously you'd probably end up killing power to your whole block... they only size the transformers for average use, and the transformer that you are likely sharing with multiple neighbors probably can't handle even a single house using all of its 200A continuously. 30KW might use up nearly all the continuous capacity of the transformer you and your neighbors are sharing. Big difference between peak and continuous.

Also, if you are lucky enough to have 3 phase power available at your pole, you may be able to get a cheaper commercial rate. Where I live it costs less than half of the residential rate to get 3 phase commercial.

I agree with mikeywith about the overclocking. The hashboard layout, case, and fans were not built to handle the 3000W required to run these at 70TH or more. The temperature of only 4 out of the 48 ASICs on each hashboard is monitored. So you can very easily get into a situation where one of the non-monitored ASICs that is less efficient or has a poorly attached heatsink, gets hot enough to melt its solder connections, short out a bunch of high power connections, and cause unrepairable damage.

If you're going to ROI in 2 months with overclocking, you'd only need to wait another couple of weeks to ROI without taking the overclocking risk.

Also, not every S17 will overclock that much anyway.

It's a gamble. I think the quality control just wasn't good enough for all these 17 series miners to get a reliably good product, but it seems like some batches were fine, others were horrible. I have 10 S17s that came directly from Bitmain in one batch and haven't had a single one go down. Been running for nearly 2 years. Got 7 s17 pros in another batch from Malaysia and had issues with 3 out of 7 in under a year.

So could go either way. With used miners, if they've been solidly running with no issues they may be good and the original owners were the ones that took the risk. Or it could be every single miner they are selling had issues and it's just a matter of time before they start failing.

I'd just go into it assuming 25% of the hashboards will die. Make sure the #s make sense with that assumption. Consolidate working hashboards into fully working miners and either sell the bad boards for parts or see if you can find a repair shop.

chillfactr, any interest in trading your t17 with no working hashboards for 2 working hashboards?

I have piles of hashboards, but not enough cases/psus/control boards to put them in.

I'd imagine so. I don't run a big farm but nearly all this dead gear I have I bought from a large farm that shut down last year. They had full-time technicians to repair miners but when they shut down they had piles of dead gear that the technicians either didn't get to or couldn't repair.

Thanks, but I have no interest in repairing miners as a service. If I charged enough to make it worth my time I'd be even more expensive than the overpriced services already listed...

Still have >100 dead hashboards of my own to repair anyway which will probably take me more than a year to get through.

I wouldn't really recommend trying to fix yourself. Removing/replacing heatsinks and chips on these hashboards is not easy, and without lots of practice, you'd probably just create more issues.

You can search back through this thread to find some potential remedies that may get the board up at least temporarily. Changing the temperature and/or orientation of the miner can sometimes close broken solder joints or open shorts caused by excess solder on the board. In my experience, these are the most likely causes.

Best option is to find an experienced repair shop.