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The Subject has $100 in it, why is this thread not moved to the Speculation forum?
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That thread was clearly about price, thus belonging in speculation. End of story. Next? No it is about delusion, scaling, and cheerleading. I guess you can't read the Subject title of thread, nor the content of the thread. You're one of those guys that walks into a Hells Angels bar and yells, "all you pussy bikers suck". Then you wonder why you get your ass beat.
No I don't wonder, because I am not getting beat. You are delusional. I am on a virtual forum. Belongs in Meta.
Surely it will be so censored. |
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Please find a flaw in this: I can send $1B with a fee of 40 cents or less.
That is not a use case for the broad population. For the broad population there is no use case, other than as a get rich speculation. Use cases? 1. Remittances -- very low fees compared to 10-15% of companies like western union 2. Self storage - Your accounts are not able to be "frozen" by 3rd parties 3. Portability -- You can travel to any country and immediately use your bitcoins without needing to transfer funds from one bank to another or pay additional currency exchange fees. If you tried to travel with a suitcase of cash you'd soon be broke/robbed 4. Not able to be used in Bail-ins: Example Cyprus stealing money from large account holders to bail-in their banks. And actually the G20 just agreed that bail-ins should be used before bail-outs by the IMF or the central banks....we are going to see a lot more bank failures and bail-ins in the near future 5. Known inflation/emission rate. : Take notice of argentina, or the QE in USA 6. the list goes on and on but if your too lazy to look them up then I'm going to stop here. 1. Convert to and from fiat is the same or more fees, plus much more hassle in many scenarios. 2. Just wait until the KYC regulations on the miners come once most of the users are accessing Bitcoin through Paypal and Coincase and other centralized choke points. 3. You need to convert to fiat before you can use it. 4. Ditto #2. 5. Bitcoin can be debased just like gold was debased in the 1800s, via fractional reserve loans denominated in BTC. Gresham's Law insures the public will adopt the most debased unit. 6. The longer your list, the more proof you provide that I am correct. 1. Pay with bitcoin you nerd. 2. Maybe they are initially buying bitcoin through a company like coinbase, but then just move it off coinbase. A smart bitcoiner would never leave a large amount of bitcoin on a centralized service, especially after the Mt. Gox problem 3. See #1. Are you mentally delayed? -- And if your argument is "well not everywhere accepts bitcoins and keeps them!" that is why were are in the adoption phase and I'm proud of that fact  4. Nope, you can never take someones bitcoin as a bail-in. If I could I'd own all of satoshi's coins right now  5. Yes there could be a fractional reserve and they would need a very small margin otherwise face quick collapse. But that still prevents endless money printing. 6. The more you argue the point, the more obvious it is that you know very little about bitcoin. Evidence of delusion. Thanks. |
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every time the price of BTC goes down, people like OP invade the forum with their bullshit.
Every time the price of BTC goes up, people like OP look at the price, seething with rage, foaming at the mouth, wishing they invested earlier.
Indeed. The use case of Bitcoin is a speculation bubble. |
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Please find a flaw in this: I can send $1B with a fee of 40 cents or less.
That is not a use case for the broad population. For the broad population there is no use case, other than as a get rich speculation. Use cases? 1. Remittances -- very low fees compared to 10-15% of companies like western union 2. Self storage - Your accounts are not able to be "frozen" by 3rd parties 3. Portability -- You can travel to any country and immediately use your bitcoins without needing to transfer funds from one bank to another or pay additional currency exchange fees. If you tried to travel with a suitcase of cash you'd soon be broke/robbed 4. Not able to be used in Bail-ins: Example Cyprus stealing money from large account holders to bail-in their banks. And actually the G20 just agreed that bail-ins should be used before bail-outs by the IMF or the central banks....we are going to see a lot more bank failures and bail-ins in the near future 5. Known inflation/emission rate. : Take notice of argentina, or the QE in USA 6. the list goes on and on but if your too lazy to look them up then I'm going to stop here. 1. Convert to and from fiat is the same or more fees, plus much more hassle in many scenarios. 2. Just wait until the KYC regulations on the miners come once most of the users are accessing Bitcoin through Paypal and Coincase and other centralized choke points. 3. You need to convert to fiat before you can use it. 4. Ditto #2. 5. Bitcoin can be debased just like gold was debased in the 1800s, via fractional reserve loans denominated in BTC. Gresham's Law insures the public will adopt the most debased unit. 6. The longer your list, the more proof you provide that I am correct. |
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Bitcoin is not anonymous. I already had this argument with franky1 and I will not repeat it. Refer to my archive of posts. |
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The argument: are people who are currently on this forum/using bitcoin not part of the 'broad population'?
Absolutely not. You are delusional males with goldbug tendencies (which is another delusion) and high tech envy (most of you can't build, so you pontificate). And you force yourself to use Bitcoin because of your delusion, even trying to find ways to force unnatural use it for your pregnant wife's term. And your use of Bitcoin as a speculation far outweighs your forced unnatural use of it as a transaction currency. If not, are you trying to say that I'm intelligent or special in some way? Yes, you are delusional. |
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For the broad population there is no use case
False, totally false, and the problem is that you know it (i hope you understand at least this part of the BTC system). More unsubstantiated posts. You provide no argument. Fact is that money transfer still requires the sender and the recipient to cash in and cash out in fiat. They still pay the fees. |
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By the way, Facebook was founded in 2004, it didn't even have positive cash flow until 2009 (5 years later!). As of January 2014 they still had ONLY 1.2 billion active users (10 years later!)
Facebook was launched to the public Sept. 2006. Bitcoin also had a period before its Jan 2009 launch wherein it was tested by a smaller group. So thus Facebook is only 8 years old as a public service and has 1.2 billion users. Bitcoin is nearing 6 years old as a public service has about about 1000X less users. Sorry there is no comparison. "launched to public" in 2006? Bitcoin is just known to part of the public during the 2013 run up Launched means launched. Not everyone in the world knew about Facebook in 2006. Before 2006, it was not available to the public, only to closed groups. Continue with your delusion. |
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Please find a flaw in this: I can send $1B with a fee of 40 cents or less.
That is not a use case for the broad population. For the broad population there is no use case, other than as a get rich speculation. |
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Danny, looks like most of that was a claimed quote of Satoshi, so that is a historical accuracy discussion among other things.
He is not giving price speculation, rather he is arguing that Bitcoin is dead or not scaling and there is massive cheerleading and delusion. I have argued upthread that Bitcoin is not dead[1], but I have agreed with him that there is a problem with delusional cheerleading.
[1] Speculation bubbles don't die usually on the first or second bubble but rather on the third one when the retail public moves in. When everyone has access to Bitcoin via Paypal, there can be a another larger bubble involving grandmas and women too. So we can hurt the most people. Speculation bubbles need to hurt many people as possible before they finally die. Bitcoin has no wide use case a currency. But it does have a wide use case as a Ponzi-like (not exactly Ponzi but similar outcome) speculation, where everyone rushes into buy so the Windlevoss twins can cash out with massive profits.
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So what is the reason they must use Bitcoin? I haven't been able to find a reason.
Because you haven't understand Bitcoin. Very Simple.  I understand Bitcoin better than all of you do. Any more unsubstantiated noise you want to add to this thread? |
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Let's talk about the reason most people must use Bitcoin?
They must use Facebook, because that is where their friends and family are.
So what is the reason they must use Bitcoin? I haven't been able to find a reason. In all my years of successfully marketing and programming million user software, I know you don't get there without a compelling use case for your product.
What we have here is a bunch of delusional men, thinking they can get rich quick while fighting evil in the monetary system. In short, a massive delusion without a use case.
If I suggest anonymity or decentralized derivatives to actually give use cases, the delusion men attack my ideas. Sigh. Thus competing with Bitcoin is a possibility, although a risky bet.
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Belongs in Speculation subforum.
Trying to hide this? No specific price was speculated in the OP. It discussion about scaling which is not a speculation topic. |
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By the way, Facebook was founded in 2004, it didn't even have positive cash flow until 2009 (5 years later!). As of January 2014 they still had ONLY 1.2 billion active users (10 years later!)
Facebook was launched to the public Sept. 2006. Bitcoin also had a period before its Jan 2009 launch wherein it was tested by a smaller group. So thus Facebook is only 8 years old as a public service and has 1.2 billion users. Bitcoin is nearing 6 years old as a public service has about about 1000X less users. Sorry there is no comparison. |
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...Knowing that they are being recorded may encourage best behavior, whilst not knowing (until it appears posted anonymously somewhere) may not be as good for them. It is a bad law.
The law makes it look like they have something to hide...
Astute. The government is forcing us towards anonymous systems, which will be worse for them in the end. It is analogous when they shutdown Napster then a P2P sharing systems sprouted. The government can't win against the hackers. People can argue politics until they are blue in the face, but it is all irrelevant. Technology is relevant and the individual will become empowered to give the middle finger to the government and the banksters. |
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I agree with almost everything in the OP, except I am leaning more towards there will be another bubble in Bitcoin after bottoming below $200 in 2015. As I have explained in the Mad Max thread, until 2032 we are in a 51.6 year wave with peaking Public (government compatible) assets, e.g. sovereign bonds and Public pensions, and a move towards Private assets. The next 4.3 year wave of that overall wave will begin Oct. 2015, so that is when gold and Bitcoin will start to move up again. Bitcoin could perhaps move up 10X or perhaps at most 100X from $100ish to at most say $10,000.
Now it is somewhat possible that another crypto-currency could compete with Bitcoin, but that is a risky bet.
Bitcoin will be integrated into the government approved systems (e.g. KYC know your customer), but at the same time the bankrupt national government systems will be torn down and global or regional monetary systems will replace them after 2032, when btw China and Asia will be the new financial center of the world.
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Thank for those who have more knowledge about derivatives taking the time to make some explanations. Admittedly my patience was too short to elaborate sufficiently.
It doesn't really matter that some people are ignorant of the utility of derivatives, because they will always gravitate to what is succeeding.
And derivatives boost the ecosystem by orders-of-magnitude, because a large portion of the business world can't participate without them. No hedging, sorry they can't do Bitcoin.
how do side chains fit in to this scenario of derivatives Merged-mining was my recent idea of how to do the programmable block chain correctly, not Ethereum nor Bitshares. |
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