I discussed a novel coin idea with andu. We didn't hear anything for some time now from the other programmer, googleplex, so I'll start to implement it, if DC holders like it.

TL;DR: a new coin, based on some Dash ideas with one minute transaction time, anonymous transactions, and a built-in fast Dice (max. 4 seconds delay), implemented as a trustless system (no central server needed) and provably fair.

First some background information. Dash uses a system of a few thousand Masternodes, see the Dash whitepaper for details. It allows advanced concepts like instant payment, with transaction times of less than 4 seconds (but normal transactions are fast, too, because the average block time is one minute). It does this with a random quorum of Masternode servers. Same concept is used for Darksend, for sending coins anonymously. Both ideas makes it a good base for Darkclam, because of the stated goals (see first post in this thread).

Now the novel idea I propose is to use the network itself as a Dice service. There is no investor. If you win a bet, new coins are created and if you lose a bet, coins are destroyed. On average the supply should stay the same, if the bets are not too big, e.g. a whale bets half of all supply and loses, but even then it would just half or increase by a factor of 1.5. Less than some normal fluctuations for some coins at exchanges.

One way to implement this is to use an external random source and to use the blockchain to record bets. After a draw of the external random source, the coins are created or destroyed and every node can verify it. Chancecoin uses this system. The coin seems to be dead now, because the developers disappeared, but it was listed for some time even at Poloniex.

I propose a new way how to handle bets: with the Dash quorum system. n random masternodes are selected (of course, the select algorithm has to be safe and random, too, otherwise you could select all your own servers) and each masternode creates a server seed and sends back the hash to the client. Then the client creates a random seed (or the user enters it), which is then sent to all selected masternodes. The idea is that you can't trust one server, but you can trust the quorum. All masternodes send back their server seed, which can be verified by all other masternodes and a roll is generated with an algorithm as used by just-dice, but all server seeds and the client seed are concatenated. This is the provably fair part. Needs to be thought in detail, and messages needs to be signed etc., but it should work similarly to the instant payment concept of Dash.

There will be no proof-of-stake or proof-of-work when creating new blocks. But a bet will have a small fee, which will prevent spamming the network as well (and normal transactions will have a fee as well), and a randomly selected masternode creates a block and gets the fee (maybe as in NXT and WAVES: the more DC the masternode owns, the higher the probability that it creates a block).

My plan to implement this: first I will implement Dash with the Scorex framework, which is written in Scala (WAVES already uses this framework and is currently tested a lot, with bug-bounties, and I guess will be at Poloniex soon, so a good code base). This will help me to understand the concepts of Dash in detail, and it will help the crypto community as well, because it is so much easier to test or change things in Scala than in C++, which is currently used for Dash. The Scorex framework provides a lot of common functions, so that the actual implementation of Dash shouldn't be that difficult, and would be mostly translating the existing C++ code to Scala. More advantages of Scala compared to C++: bugs like buffer overflows are impossible, the code runs without recompiling on Windows, Mac and Linux (because it is compiled to Java JVM classes), and it is much more compact, easier to write, and easier to read than C++.

After this I will implement the Darkclam coin, with the Scorex framework, based on some parts of Dash. There will be an integrated web browser (already part of the Scorex framework with Akka), which will provide the usual transfer and wallet functions (I suggest a decentralized wallet on the network, like in counterparty), and additionally the Dice game. You can connect to some official server on the internet, or run your own server locally on your computer. There is no way that the Dice game can get shut down by shutting down one server.

Then there will be a testnet for some time, until everyone agrees that it is stable and we can release the mainnet. The counterparty DC coins then will be transferred to the new coins on the mainnet. One way would be proof-of-burn, but maybe there are other ways possible with the counterparty API.

That's all a lot of work, and more developers are welcome. I'll do this all for free, because I believe in Darkclam, and hopefully can sell a bit later on Poloniex I guess it could need a year until it is all done, if I do it all by myself.

Waves is based on the Scorex framework. As written in this thread, "Scorex is intentionally not production-ready". Unlike some other coins which are often derived from Bitcoin, it is new source code, written from scratch. The Waves developers already improved it a lot, and all testing is good, but I think it will need some more months until it is ready for production. See the github issues list, there are still 9 known open bugs, some are very critical, only 3 closed so far. And most probably even after the release there will be some bugs on the main net.

The good thing is that it is written in Scala, so infamous buffer-overflow bugs as possible in C/C++ are impossible with it, and the language allows to write much cleaner and more compact code, which means later new features can be implemented faster.

Ich weiss zwar nicht genau wie die Technik dahinter ist, aber erscheint mir schwierig, die Waves und Lisk Blockchains zu verbinden, sind ganz andere Frameworks dahinter. Es in Ethereum einzufügen wäre aber wohl möglich, da dort ja bereits Tokens möglich sind ( https://www.ethereum.org/token ). Ob damit dann aber alle anderen geplanten Features umsetzbar sind, ist eine andere Frage.

Needs more features, like the ability to create your own coin ( https://www.ethereum.org/token the site is a bit outdated, it is possible with a mouse click in the latest GUI) and of course, smart contracts.

Der scheint aber auch nicht viel Information zu enthalten. Finde ich gut, daß zumindest der unsägliche Originalthread geschlossen wurde. Hier gibt es übrigens einen moderierten Thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1513482.20

Well, at least this proves that the devs trust WAVES. If they don't indent to do some more work for it, it would be wasted money and they could just spend the BTC they have.

I can't verify your claim, can you describe how to reproduce it? In the current version (and probably older versions, too), the password is not stored at all in the Local Storage object and the seed is encrypted, see the registerSeed function here: https://github.com/wavesplatform/WavesGUI/blob/master/js/waves.ui.lockscreen.js#L189 As you can see, the seed ("passphrase") is encrypted with the password and the result ("cipher") is stored in the accountData for Local Storage. To verify the password, only a hash of the seed is stored, too. When the user enters a password, the passphrase is decrypted and the hash is compared. Pretty clever and standard for such systems.

But you don't have to believe me, verify yourself what is stored in Local Storage: Open waves.ui.functions.js in the Lite Client, then search for the line "var userAccounts = localStorage.getItem('Waves'+Waves.network);" and add "alert(userAccounts);" in the next line. "cipher" is the encrypted seed, no password stored.

BTW: if you forgot your seed, but you still know your password and can login to your account, first login to your account, and then in Chrome click on the 3 dots top right ("Customize and Control Google Chrome"), open "More tools->Developer tools" and switch to "console". Then enter Waves.passphrase and hit return, and you'll see your seed. If you are using the Chrome App: Start the App and login to your account, open another Chrome window, open the special page "chrome://inspect/#apps": the App WavesLiteApp is listed. Click on the "inspect" link, then select the Console and evaluate Waves.passphrase. No security problem, because as I wrote, it is stored encrypted on your PC, but it is required to create the private key, if you want to send WAVES.

To the devs: The seed is not required to view the balance and transactions, so maybe would be better to implement something like in the bitcoin-qt client, where you have to enter the password before each send, or some lock/unlock wallet button. Currently if you leave the browser open, anyone with access to your computer can send WAVES from the account.

https://twitter.com/sasha35625/status/743490340104069120 : "We're launching on #Bittrex on June, 20. Ride on @wavesplatform !"

Ok, but this is the internet age. Can someone please create a BTC/WAVES exchange website with the help of the existing WAVES client? Should be possible in a day with NodeJS. Take 1% fee, everyone would still use it if it works. These manual trades here are fun, but ridiculous.

A dev in slack wrote, that ICO price was 0.00036867 BTC per WAVE.

Hier habe ich es beschrieben:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1387944.18240 (das letzte Posting ganz unten, der Anker-Link zum Artikel funktioniert nicht, scheinbar ein Bitcointalk-Bug)

und hier noch etwas mehr technische Details, nachdem ich den JavaScript-Code untersucht hatte:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1387944.msg15227730#msg15227730

Mir hat aber einer geschrieben, daß die devs an einer Lösung arbeiten, um den betroffenen Usern die verlorengegangenen WAVES geben zu können, was aber interessant werden könnte.

Aber wie geschrieben, mit 0.3.1 gibt es das Problem nicht mehr. Solche Startprobleme kann man bei neuer Software nicht vermeiden. Dafür bekommen wir ja auch 10x ICO-Preis beim Verkauf, hoffe ich mal

Try to deposit WAVES. Then it says


And no wonder, they traded imaginary WAVES so far. It gets funny when they switch to real WAVES. Could get expensive for them, or a win.

Ich würde auf jeden Fall den neuen Client empfehlen. Der Bug "Fixed an issue with address generation after seed modification" hat scheinbar einigen Leuten WAVES gekostet, wie ich im anderen Thread genauer beschrieben habe. Ist allerdings nur wichtig, wenn du neue Adressen importierst. Wenn du schon eine (funktionierende) Adresse hast, ist das nur zum Senden kein Problem noch 0.3.0 zu verwenden.

Bin mal gespannt, wieviel Leute erst beim Versuch was zur Börse transferieren zu wollen merken, daß die Adresse nicht funktioniert wegen dem Fehler.

I would consider it a software bug. Some people contacted me here by PM who had the same problem. With the client 0.3.0 it was possible to create a new seed, but then it was saved under the address which was created by the previous seed, if you didn't click the "generate address from seed" button again before clicking the "register" button. This is the same problem as I described with the empty seed, but the problem was more serious, because any previous seed which generated an address and was then overwritten caused this bug, and this happened for some people.

The message that there is not enough balance is returned, because the balance which is displayed uses API functions which requires only the public key of the first address. But when you want to send some money, the seed is used to create the private key and this uses the new address (which is not visible, because balance and transactions are using the old address). Usually the new address has no balance.

If someone sends the devs the local storage object of Chrome, they can verify and confirm it. Unfortunately I don't see a way that someone can prove it was an accident and not done intentionally to get some free money. And the private key was not saved in the local storage object, which might be a good idea, too (the seed is already stored, and all password encrypted, so no security problem), and which would have provided a solution to the problem.

Thanks, I'm already registered in wavesplatform.slack.com as marilyn4325. I just thought there was some kind of official eMail and a bug bounty program (of course, I can't get something for a bug which is already fixed). I will contact someone in the #announcements channel with a DM when I find something serious.

Yeah, but they are just users The client should not allow to register an address created with a weak or empty seed and this is already fixed. Maybe additionally would be good to check the seed when the generate address button is pressed and not allow weak seeds at all, tested with the same check that is done with the register button.

But I think too, this was not a serious problem, the user has to do a specific sequence of wrong steps, maybe only 35k WAVES are lost, and already fixed in 0.3.1. But where do I write to when I've found a serious bug? I guess adding a github issue wouldn't be a good idea.

No, it didn't. With version 0.3.0 it was possible to click "generate address from seed" with an empty seed (this is still possible in 0.3.1, too), which results in the address I posted, try it yourself. And some guys did this, because there were high transaction on this address. And if you then entered the right seed after it, but didn't click "generate address from seed" again, it was possible to click "register", but the address was not updated (this was fixed in 0.3.1), resulting in an address for the empty seed, which I just posted. I guess this was meant by the release note "Fixed an issue with address generation after seed modification".

FYI: someone just informed me that he magically had 30k and 5k transfers in his wallet. It was this address http://wavesexplorer.com/address/3PHBX4uXhCyaANUxccLHNXw3sqyksV7YnDz And what is the seed? Try "import account" in your WAVES Lite Client 0.3.0 from github, then click "generate address from seed" and compare the address With the client 0.3.0 I could reproduce the problem, if you click "generate address from seed" first, then enter the wallet seed, then the password and click "register". Looks like with version 0.3.1 it was fixed. Bad luck for the guys who maybe lost 30k.

Kommt drauf an. Manche meinen ja, der Preis könnte bis auf 10x ICO Preis steigen. Ich denke 4x wie bei Lisk ist realistisch. Wenn all die Features wie Fiat-Transfer usw. tatsächlich mal eingebaut werden (der aktuelle Source Code ist noch ziemlich rudimentär), dann natürlich bald 1 WAVE = 1 BTC

Why don't you install a local copy of the client at wavesplatform.com, too, for those who have trouble installing it (looks like there are a few people who can't unpack a zip file, or with problems on mobile phones) ? I can send you some WAVES to cover the webhosting costs, if traffic gets too high

Thanks, but even May 14 is not "a long time" I wonder what snowboard789 checked.