EDIT: what does "Lisk" mean, if anything?
Max has said Lisk is an abbreviation for "obelisk" -
"tapering, four-sided shaft of stone, usually monolithic and having a pyramidal apex".  (An Obelisk on Hoheward, Herten, Germany, during a total solar eclipse. Open-source image courtesy of Wikimedia Commons) Here's the official logo: |
|
|
|
I won't use something that is not 100% bomb-proof. We are talking about other people's money here, therefore I'm extremely cautious!
Extremely careful with others' money. That's why you organize this money collection party in the first place to lure money from the uninformed, wannabe rich idiots. altcoinUK, I have great respect for the British, and then you come along. Huh. Dude, if you're looking for an arena to be a hero protecting uninformed, wannabe rich idiots - altcoins probably ain't it. But if you insist, I'm sure there are other threads that might be a lot more applicable to what you are saying than this Lisk thread. Max and Olivier have a long track record of good works at Crypti. I for one am confident they will work even harder at Lisk. |
|
|
|
You may wish to rethink accepting ETH coins in a swap too... no idea how you could accurately determine a price at this time (or even in 10 days time). You may lose like half the value by the time the ICO is over... or investors will lose half their value. Either way, someone will be unhappy.
+1. ETH is in a big bubble right now. Bubbles pop. Be very careful with ETH. Why not let them do their own conversion to BTC first? |
|
|
|
QUICK LISK MATH FACTS
Informative and funny  Thanks for these facts. I wonder if they would be informative and funny in other languages?  |
|
|
|
|
QUICK LISK MATH FACTS
XCR = ETH - $18.4 M
LISK = XCR + FORK
LISK = ETH - SOLIDITY + JAVASCRIPT
LISK = ETH - GPU + $35 PI 2 or $9 C.H.I.P.
LISK = ETH - GAS + DPoS
LISK = ETH - COMPETITIVE PoW MINERS + COOPERATVE DPoS DELEGATES
LISK DPoS DELEGATES = ETH MINERS - ETH MINERS + 101 = 101
LISK HASHRATE = ETH HASHRATE - ETH HASHRATE = 0
LISK COOPERATIVE BLOCKTIME = (ETH COMPETITIVE BLOCKTIME) / 2 = 10 SEC
LISK SIDECHAIN = ETH SIDECHAIN
LISK DAPP = ETH DAPP
LISK PRICE NOW = (1 /2000) ETH PRICE NOW
LISK PRICE 2017 = ?
|
|
|
|
That's really complicated. It'll take me so long to figure that all out. I might have some crypti so good NEWS for me I guess. It's not as complicated as it looks but it does take some background to understand. Max and Olivier are not just launching a new coin. They are (1) absorbing membership from the already existing Crypti XCR coin (the "father" of Lisk) AND AT THE SAME TIME (2) they are going for a second round of funding from new BTC/ETH investors to further develop its technology. The number of transferring original XCR investors modify the end result seen by the new BTC/ETH investors. The donations of the new BTC/ETH investors modify the end result seen by the original XCR investors. Nobody will know the final results until the ICO is over. The "complicated" charts show all possible future combinations of BTC/ETH and XCR investments in Lisk between Feb 22 and March 21. Only one of these combinations will be "real" at the end of the ICO. That's the two numbers on the charts Max and Olivier will go with - one specific concentration / dilution factor for the XCR donators, and one specific satoshi price for the BTC/ETH donators. These charts show how these two groups of original XCR investors and new BTC/ETH investors will be merged together into one group of Lisk holders IN A FAIR MANNER. And the proposed method for combining these two groups IS fair. Kudos to Max and Olivier for taking on this task and proposing a path forward to make it succeed. |
|
|
|
...That wasn't my point, I was merely asking if there is a way for the network to detect whether an account is new or not. And whether the network could warn the user he is about to create a new account.
There were some cases where people made a new account unknowingly and transferred funds to later realize it was not their account, but rather the newly minted account made by mistyping the password.
What you are describing is the old computer "garbage in - garbage out" problem. A computer will do exactly what you tell it to do. There is a mathematically pre-existing Lisk account associated with every one of the infinite number of keyboard click patterns you can generate. All of them start out as "empty" and "unused". When you click a selected pattern of keys on the keyboard (a "password"), the Lisk client will mindlessly use the "account" associated with those key clicks. When you ask "am I opening the correct account", you are really asking "did I correctly type in my password". No computer can help you with that. Maybe the UI could help a little, by asking you to type it in twice and make sure you typed an identical password both times... The only thing the network could do is detect if the account you are about to use has zero Lisk associated with it, or some other amount of Lisk, and ask if that looks right to you. Technically in brainwallets there is no such thing as a "previously established account" that can be "checked by code". All possible accounts in Lisk currently exist and have existed since the Big Bang created the number line. It's a math thing. Accidentally using the wrong account is a lot harder to do if you use the "New Account word phrase" instead of a cryptic alphanumeric password where you might transpose two characters. That's another reason to use a pass phrase with many words instead of a single alphanumeric password. |
|
|
|
I just noticed I can easily create an account by typing different passwords and singing in...
This is counter-productive imo, what's the option of "New Account" in the Lisk login page for then?
This gets into LISK BRAINWALLET SECURITY BASICS. Lisk (and Crypti, and NXT, and...) is a brainwallet coin. Brainwallets are a brilliant security system based on the deep beauty of elliptic curve mathematics. Then lazy humans get into the picture, and the whole thing starts to fall apart... Just keep reading and skip this link unless you are a true math nerd (like me): https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/10/23/information-theoretic-account-secure-brainwallets/LISK IS PERFECTLY SAFE AS LONG AS THE PASSWORD YOU USE IS STRONG ENOUGH. IF YOU DREAM UP A PASSWORD "ON YOUR OWN" TO USE IN LISK, IT ISN'T STRONG ENOUGH.It would be more accurate to say the "New Account" option in the Lisk client is actually a "strong password generator". Sure, you can get to a unique Lisk account by typing a password that YOU came up with instead of the Lisk New Account word phrase. But you will be using a MUCH MUCH MUCH weaker password than the password represented by the Lisk word phrase. Using your own password to access a Lisk account virtually guarantees that hackers will eventually brute force your personal password for your account and steal all your Lisk. They will do this sooner rather than later. http://www.coindesk.com/new-cracking-tool-exposes-major-flaw-in-bitcoin-brainwallets/http://btcrumor.com/new-crack-software-will-hack-your-brainwallet-passphrase-in-seconds/THE LISK NEW ACCOUNT WORD PHRASE IS A STRONG STRONG STRONG PASSWORD.
USE THE LISK NEW ACCOUNT WORD PHRASE OPTION.YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. |
|
|
|
...part of the reason there wasn't more delegate uptake <in Crypti> was because of the lack of proper rewards due to low volume. Therefore they instituted a block reward. In Lisk, 5 new Lisk are created each block to reward to the delegates. So each one of the 101 blocks in a round creates 5 new Lisk that are cumulative for the 101 blocks. When the round is complete, the Lisk in that round is evenly distributed to the delegates who forged a block in that round, much like tx fee's would be. This ensures that there will always be a reward in every block and creates a built in incentive for running a delegate. It also makes the coin a small bit inflationary, but not enough to make much of a difference....
I respectfully disagree with this story. Inflationary forger rewards are the one thing I would change about how Lisk is organizing. Let me rant a little. First, "a small bit inflationary" is not correct. Lisk will have 15% inflation in year one. Bitcoin had 12.5% inflation in year one. So Lisk will have an inflation rate that is 20% higher than Bitcoin had at its start. Second, I think Crypti was doing just fine attracting volunteers to become Delegates without any inflationary forger rewards at all. The problem was (and is) that once these volunteers arrived at Crypti, the Crypti Foundation did a terrible job of processing volunteers into becoming Active Delegate forgers. Here's the background. The Crypti Foundation started Crypti DPoS with 101 Foundation-run nodes and no forging rewards. They expressed a willingness to replace a Foundation delegate with a Community delegate one-for-one as Community Delegate volunteers showed up. Key point: Crypti Foundation members had enough personal and organizational Crypti between them to vote up any new Community volunteer into Active Delegate status (and simultaneously vote down one of the Foundation nodes) the very day that Community volunteer registered. The Crypti Foundation did not use their massive voting power to routinely make new Community volunteers into Active Delegates. Instead, the Crypti process to groom Community volunteers into Active Delegates was a mismanaged, unorganized mess. Community volunteers declared themselves as Standby Delegates merely by clicking on a button in the Crypti Client. Then they had no idea what to do next. They did not know where to go to describe their qualifications and ask for votes. They did not know where to go to find documentation on how to set up nodes. They did not check the Active / Standby list daily to see if they were getting votes. They did not register on sign-up any email address so they could be contacted and told they had suddenly been thrust from Standby to Active. No Foundation member mentored them step-by-step from the day they registered as Standby until they became a functional Active Delegate with a forging node. And worst of all, the Foundation did not coordinate its voting power to vote themselves down when there was a new Community volunteer to vote up. Look at the facts. Go look at the Crypti Delegate list right now at https://cryptichain.lisk.io/delegateMonitor and look at the Active Delegate (AD) and Standby Delegate (SD) lists. There are currently 12 Active Delegates and 22 Standby Delegates at Crypti for a total of 34 people that have 0% uptime. This means they have never forged a single Crypti, because they never set up a Crypti node. Yet a dozen of them were voted up anyway as Foundation nodes went offline through disinterest. EVERY ONE of these 34 people is a tragic failure by the Crypti Foundation to build and strengthen its DPoS system. They all wanted to set up a node and be forgers and secure the Crypti blockchain without any inflationary rewards to motivate them. Besides these current 34 Zero-Uptime Crypti Delegates abandoned by the Crypti Foundation, there were at least a dozen other community volunteers who become successful community Active Delegates running a node. I know because I am one of them. The dozen or so Community Active Delegates like me who succeeded in setting up a Crypti node had to pretty much figure things out on our own. When we needed help, that help came from Max and Olivier. Bottom line, despite a being a low-publicity coin with a disorganized recruitment process and no forger rewards, Crypti actually got over half of the volunteers needed to fill its 101 DPoS slots. This is very impressive, even if Crypti didn't use those volunteers effectively.
Lisk could do even better, even without forger rewards. With ICO publicity, the volunteer pool is going to be bigger. The Lisk Foundation could upvote initial Community volunteers and downvote their own initial DPoS nodes with great efficiency until a Community DPoS group of 101 was established and community voting took over. Guiding a volunteer from registration to setting up a node could be streamlined and mentored. The Lisk Foundation genesis nodes could be run as long as necessary with no ill effects on Lisk blockchain security while building up this no-forging-reward DPoS community of 101 Delegates. As proposed, Lisk forging rewards carry some risks that must be acknowledged. Yes, there will be a fight to secure a top 101 Delegate slot and make 150K Lisk in year one. I will be in that dogfight myself. But when the dust has settled, what is the motivation for Standby Delegates to set up Node 102, 103, 104... ? Under Crypti, the financial gap between Active and Standby delegates was practically zero. In Lisk, the financial gap between Active and Standby Delegates is huge. This will certainly motivate the Active Delegates. The Standby Delegates? Not so much. Well, I've had my say. Even as I wave bye-bye to the Crypti volunteer DPoS system that I prefer in my heart, I wish Max and Olivier good luck with Lisk forging rewards. I know they have learned valuable lessons from Crypti Foundation's DPoS experiences. I believe they will turn these lessons into success for Lisk. They are right, forging rewards are indeed a motivator. I will be asking for your vote in a few weeks to become a Lisk delegate myself. |
|
|
|
He also needs to learn how to spell Ethereum... Spammer gonna spam I guess.
It's not dump ETH, Go Lisk, especially with how well ETH has been doing lately...Instead point out how well ETH is doing and how there is room for more than one smart contract currency. Competition is fine, but right now nobody knows about Lisk, while ETH is going insane. Use that to your advantage... the better ETH does, the more interest there could be in Lisk.
LOL. Oops. Corrected. Thanks, poornamelessme. |
|
|
|
Lisk Uses JavaScript to write smart contracts / side chains / distributed applications (dapps)
How many JavaScript developers are there? (Hint: around 100,000 !!!) How popular is JavaScript? (Hint : #1 !!!)
https://www.quora.com/How-many-JavaScript-developers-are-there-in-the-US-and-across-the-world
http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2015#tech-lang
Ethereum uses Solidity to write smart contracts / side chains / distributed applications (dapps)
What the hell is Solidity?
"Part III: Solidity language features
Note: Solidity is still under heavy development, which means running the actual code is hard, and since it’s on dev it cannot be assumed to be stable."
"This is valid:
<Solidity code>
It has "risky" in it because it is not safe. First of all, "bank" starts out un-initialized, which means the "deposit" and "withdraw" functions might fail. Secondly, "setBank" has an address in the method signature and there is no guarantee that this contract is a bank. Finally, of course this is generally a bad contract because it has no permissions structure. It’s just a demonstration of interfaces so it shouldn’t have that, but it’s still worth keeping in mind."
https://docs.erisindustries.com/tutorials/solidity/solidity-3/THAT'S Solidity.FORGET SOLIDITY. USE JAVASCRIPT.MOVE OVER, ETHEREUM. HERE COMES LISK.(P.S. First JavaScript programmer to write a Lisk sports betting dapp becomes a billionaire).
|
|
|
|
I've been waiting for Crypti 0.5.5 to make this possible and now I'm waiting for Lisk 0.5.5 to make this possible. The wait will be over in April 2016 when Lisk goes live. The dam is about to burst and a flood unleashed. |
|
|
|
Lisk Investment ChartsI'm the initial Crypti investor that kick-started the whole project financially back at 2014....I hope [Lisk fork] ICO funds be enough and let do a really great job to bring the [JavaScript sidechain / dapp] platform to the world. We in Crypti pushed on development and did a great job having a great platform as a result. Unfortunately no money left for marketing and further development. And for me personally Lisk is the same project with the same idea we wanted bring to the world. For me nothing changed. Same platform which can become more powerful with the new [Lisk fork] ICO....
I suggest everyone to treat this as second funding round what is are very common in start-ups.
How many Lisk you will get for every Crypti you donate (Ownership dilution / concentration): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GwWKK7bpjYTxtQRIq_l2xiKI9rEOpTU1oTt0q3C6Mc8/edit#gid=763738405 What Satoshi price you will pay for one Lisk with the Bitcoin you donate (Logical Lisk starting price at exchanges): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q2MJ25_bK5Yi60FYohYCUEkujUtL5c0P1dOdlDMPMBI/edit#gid=763738405 Note : 15% to 10% bonus for early BTC donation is ignored in these spreadsheets!Crypti folks: Note that if your ownership is diluted (less genesis Lisk than Crypti donated), the price of the Lisk you hold goes up to compensate. The net value of your holdings is unchanged at the end of the ICO. Note that if your ownership is concentrated (more genesis Lisk than Crypti donated), the price of the Lisk you hold goes down to compensate. The net value of your holdings is unchanged at the end of the ICO. Bitcoin folks:Welcome to Lisk, the alternative to Etherium. Why learn some weird new language like "Solidity" or "Serpent" to write smart contracts that will end up running on some giant Chinese server farm? Program Lisk side chains and dapps in Javascript, run them on your own network of $35 Raspberry Pi 2 or $9 C.H.I.P. microcomputers dispersed worldwide, and... prepare for lift-off!(P.S. First JavaScript programmer to write a Lisk sports betting dapp becomes a billionaire).
|
|
|
|
Lisk Investment ChartsI'm the initial Crypti investor that kick-started the whole project financially back at 2014....I hope [Lisk fork] ICO funds be enough and let do a really great job to bring the [JavaScript sidechain / dapp] platform to the world. We in Crypti pushed on development and did a great job having a great platform as a result. Unfortunately no money left for marketing and further development. And for me personally Lisk is the same project with the same idea we wanted bring to the world. For me nothing changed. Same platform which can become more powerful with the new [Lisk fork] ICO....
I suggest everyone to treat this as second funding round what is are very common in start-ups.
How many Lisk you will get for every Crypti you donate (Ownership dilution / concentration): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GwWKK7bpjYTxtQRIq_l2xiKI9rEOpTU1oTt0q3C6Mc8/edit#gid=763738405 What Satoshi price you will pay for one Lisk with the Bitcoin you donate (Logical Lisk starting price at exchanges): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q2MJ25_bK5Yi60FYohYCUEkujUtL5c0P1dOdlDMPMBI/edit#gid=763738405 Crypti folks: Note that if your ownership is diluted ( less genesis Lisk received than Crypti donated), the price of the Lisk you hold goes up to compensate. The net value of your holdings is unchanged at the end of the ICO. Note that if your ownership is concentrated ( more genesis Lisk received than Crypti donated), the price of the Lisk you hold goes down to compensate. The net value of your holdings is unchanged at the end of the ICO. Bitcoin folks:Welcome to Lisk, the alternative to Ethereum. Why learn some weird new language like "Solidity" or "Serpent" to write smart contracts that will end up running on some giant Chinese server farm? Program Lisk side chains and dapps in Javascript, run them on your own network of $35 Raspberry Pi 2 or $9 C.H.I.P. microcomputers deployed worldwide, and... prepare for lift-off! (P.S. First JavaScript programmer to write a Lisk sports betting dapp becomes a billionaire).
|
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
