Yeah, I've never used the term +EV in sportsbetting. It's not an exact science at all, the way odds are calculated, and as Boston Red Sox owners found out with Liverpool, Moneyball statistics don't always work due to the high level of unpredictability in most sports with human error and a myriad of other unforeseeable options happening.

But there is definitely in my mind value bets, which is what I attempt to do in daily betting. Comparing bookies for the same bet and taking the one with the lowest margins? That's always guaranteeing more winnings simply by picking the best odds.

Sometimes odds also fluctuate because of crowd wisdom, and when you know relatively well the sports, you can regularly predict with better accuracy than the crowd.

But, there are also huge opportunities for guaranteed profit. E.G. first time boost offers on many bookies in the UK on big games. Champions League finals, Europa League finals. I remember opening an account on 2 bookies, took advantage of 8/1 and 7/1 odds boosted... and there was 1 guaranteed outcome of each.

Or odds that are higher than the probability of some guy scoring for example. 2/1 for Sturridge to score when he was on a >1 goals per game ratio streak, good value. but +EV?

Me neither, although I have to say for practical purposes most of my mind's occupation is with price, since I need to sell my btc or use it to pay for stuff but I get what you mean here.

And that's why I am constantly reminded of how the price was first established, on a cost of generating. I daresay it's super difficult to (accurately) estimate what it costs now but I've always felt that price is a lot higher up than the cost and miners do that so they can weather out the periods when price is below the cost.

So I generally can have an idea about price and cost. Value? That's more philosophical for me =)

Very emotional gambler here when it comes to my club, and I've really enjoyed the experience. I didn't bet much on my actual home team as I supported them throughout my childhood and late teens until I moved away and couldn't watch them. I don't bet on them at all now because I don't even really know enough to make educated bets.

But betting on Liverpool since the 2000s (noughties is it?)? Very good outcomes. Especially during european campaigns, we've more than done enough to dent the giants of football... and when underdogs take on giants? The unfancied Smicers, Riises, Dudeks and Carraghers fending off the mighty Kakas, Maldinis, Pirlos and Shevchenkos...

I also did really well in recent years, as Liverpool were underdogs in Europa and Champions League till last season.

I won a lot of money when we reached the finals in Europa and CL, betting on progress all the way.

The most was last season. Won 9/1 on Liverpool winning CL, and 20/1 qualifying after a 0-3 hammering at Camp Nou;)

So yeah. Bet on your team if you're an underdog but have spirit!

That's what I get for going on the away teams in Italy and Spain.

Sevilla led 2-0 though at HT and the same for Milan leading by a goal, but eventually both couldn't last, wilted under pressure in the final 3rd of the game. Pistol Piatek, when are you going to give me a good upset?

CAF Champions League is a rare foray but we're looking at a meetup between Angola's most decorated club... away at Ugandan heavyweights. Both are midtable these days but let's see if we're not wrong about a potential underestimation by the bookies!

Oh and this is a new bookie I'm adding for comparison. Their basic odds aren't too great, to be honest, but they offer you a daily price boost that, when added on can boost payouts significantly.

100 units at Sportsbet on Petro Luanda to WIN vs Kampala Capital City Authority @9.13. Now I just discovered they don't have a betslip option though! I already contacted support but for now my bet ID: 5d8da952169c1d1cd74dc6aa

Betcoin odds: 8.59


Odds advantage: 5.7%
Units advantage: 54

I believe Bengy will now get in touch with one of the others in eternal's earlier list. I am also trying to source (feel like there's a better word haha) another person in the UK to get along with this chain but no response yet. I have quite a few secondary options but probably want this to happen a bit more naturally first before I resort to getting people convinced =D

P.S. We were both surprised by the weight! For some reason thought it'd be heavier.

Wow. 5th, 6th, 7th and 10th in EPL all dropped out.

To be fair, Liverpool also got knocked out at this stage twice recently but then we had to meet EPL opponents... so that appears to again be the case with Arsenal our next meet (but to be fair I prefer meeting Arsenal than League One opponents).

@leea you're right, if we play the kids again, we're no longer an outright favourite. Loved our forwards, if slightly disappointed in Brewster... but we gave away a lot of chances.

Not trolling or picking arguments, and I'm hardly an economist, but someone putting a value to Bitcoin doesn't make it a store of value, not automatically, does it?

From what I understand or remember, the very first exchange that sold Bitcoin (or bought it) assigned a dollar value to it based on the estimated cost to produce 1 unit (in terms of electricity consumed to mine it).

So while pizza day was the recognised exchange of goods for bitcoin, it was still a rather vague assignment of value.

Exactly the market capitalization based on data and indicators that cannot truly be independently verified.

The 90%++ analysis may be theoretical but is based on very sound logic and rationale, quite unlike the very basic level of market capitalisation figures we're used to seeing.

Not saying the former is useless. Just that it's a terrible metric to use to decide how dominant Bitcoin actually is in terms of use.

About 15 mins to go and the prices for 1 BTC are generally in the GBP 5600 range, which, after the 15% premium comes up to GBP 6440. Cheapest deal on Localbitcoins now is GBP 7100.

It's almost surely the same person probably since 0.5 BTC 2 BTC and 0.25 BTC lots are almost exactly at the same value.

Still, almost 10% discount on current prices. They're effed if BTC crashes though that shouldn't happen in the next 15 mins;)

So now I know.

Too generic and too sweeping a question. In a world with how many, 3? 4? thousand coins and tokens, has any coin actually replaced any other?

The best any coin can do is to displace another in terms of some arbitrary metrics. Ethereum was a pretender to the Bitcoin crown in market cap. I've actually seen altcoins whose single coin value was more than Bitcoin at one point. Don't know if it was ever really bought and sold on actual orders, but hey, that's one way to replace it.

But segments of Bitcoin use? Sure. I remember when Monero first spiked noticeably, in 2016 when supposedly darkmarkets adopted it. They didn't replace Bitcoin, but Monero took over any roles of anonymity that people mistakenly thought Bitcoin had.

Small joys for a small parlay, but Aston Villa had a thumping win, this is how the game looks like when their new team gets it right in terms of clicking together! And Liverpool, well, they won but had the opponents got better finishers, we'd have been at real risk!

Anyway, I'm going to bet on two very tricky away wins for Sevilla (who will want to get back on track after falling to Real) and Milan (who will want to recover from the derby loss).

Game 1: Eibar vs Sevilla. Sevilla WIN @2.31. BCR odds: 2.28
Game 2: Torino vs AC Milan. Milan WIN @3.11. BCR odds: 3.08
100 units parlay at Betcoin @7.1841. BCR parlay @7.0224

Odds advantage: 2.3%
Units advantage: 16.17

Spurs out, shouldn't be too surprising to see 1 more out tonight. AFC Bournemouth are already trailing at Burton Albion, but I suspect they should get in at least 1 goal to take it to penalties. Chelsea easily up. West Ham need a goal. Wolves up. Aston Villa 2 goal cushion and I've got a Villa/Pool parlay so I'm golden.

@Rikafip of course the league is everything. But fans AND players love trophies too. Ask City. They want the league but they'd give it up for CL.

Ask Watford. They'd give up last season's highest-ever finish for the FA Cup.

So Pharmacist, seems like your experience is similar to what I'd expect, as I said I've never in my time of passing by these BATMs ever seen anyone using it.

Just yesterday meeting up with someone about Bitcoin too, and I live about 4 hours away from a self-styled Bitcoin City, and when I tried to spend my Bitcoin, the person at the cashier wasn't able to help as they weren't sure =)

So I get that ATMs and Bitcoin accepted logos everywhere ARE a sign of adoption, but they're not very good metrics at all.

Now this makes me think we should all try ATMS nearby us just to see.

The stories from the manufacturers tell a different tone though. And they MUST be profitable to keep building more, right?

Funny: the tophat is a must.

If there were a way to aggregate all the different visualisations that people from all over the world and from different cultures, and make that the work of art?

Incorporate digital, peer-to-peer... maybe even the infrastructure of Bitcoin itself, how it keeps being added in supply? I'm thinking: a growing statue that halves it rate of growing every halving event. Or a digital representation of all the different inputs changing control between different owners.

Maybe it need not be a statue, in that sense, the ideal.

Because that was, more than any physical iteration, what Satoshi Nakamoto was (and is today), isn't it?

Perhaps if it's still too difficult for you after all this time, you should seriously consider taking a break, if not completely just stopping it.

My suggestion? Earn in crypto, as much as possible, or choose to have a portion that is always converted to crypto. The formet is preferable, that's kind of what I do now, and then you only convert out what you need every month to pay bills and of course spending money.

It's a different way of trading, in a sense, you're just always "buying" except because you earn in crypto, you just get it direct, no loss to fees and commissions, and you're not actually committing more than you can afford if you always sell enough to live.

Heard about it before and yeah also wondered about it, but I think those no longer have the same value as once thought of, if they even still do at all these days.

If the argument is that with blockchain analytics getting better, and more able to identify taint, then it also should be true that those in the public can also identify "virgin" bitcoin easily. You can't stop anyone from just spraying dust to taint those btc anyway. Be fairly easy to build a database of all new coins generated to see which wallet they belong to, and then just taint them.

Also, if analytics really are getting better, adn they will, then any onchain transacting will still lead to these illicit activities to being identified.

So. Pointless. To me and most users.

Makes me wish I owned 2 or 3 big mining companies, and just for the heck of it, after finding the last block before a difficulty adjustment, switch everything off just to see hearts flutter and tongues wagging. My shareholders would all go after me I guess, even if it were for a bit of time.

Think about it. Very, very few and unlikely scenarios for 40% to just disappear. But hey, if we have to deal with people spitting million-dollar predictions by 2019, we gotta deal with people talking about 40% hashrate loss.

No joy, but am glad I didn't bet on any upsets in the EFL Cup last night. The only upset was a Spurs away draw to Colchester... but I don't bet on draws. One wonders if it was all deliberate anyway, to focus mayhaps on Champs League?

We'll take an Aston Villa away upset and pair it with a Liverpool victory to take odds a bit higher. Maybe a chance to see youngsters all run out?

Game 1: Brighton & Hove Albion-Aston Villa. Villa WIN @3.47. BCR odds: 3.42
Game 2: Milton Keynes Dons-Liverpool. Liverpool WIN @1.23. BCR odds: 1.22
100 units parlay at Betcoin @4.2681. BCR parlay: 4.1724

Odds advantage: 2.29%
Units advantage: 9.57

Well, I will be mighty pissed if everything recovers before 1 October. I do think you're right and that the dip will be quite painful for a lot of people to bear, and we'll only see more selloffs this entire week, if not well into October. Always bound to happen, especially when news like Bakkt ended up whimpering. Got to learn to stop all the hyping up cause the hangover from underwhelming events hits the market like this.

Not sure BTC ATMs are really a case of supply. I've seen quite a few of the machines and pass by 1 almost daily. Never seen any customer. Never.

I do know a coworker who sells his weekly wages only because he needs it quick, and he's in the US so can't legitimately use p2p. But other than in the US, there can't be that much demand when you get far better rates almost every other method, can there?