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13861  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are Bitcoin fundamentals getting stronger or weaker? on: January 05, 2019, 02:30:11 AM
fundementals
like bitcoins original ethos
    was:
       'own your own funds'
    now:
       custodial
          exchanges
          LN vaults
          sidechain vaults

    was:
       'open barrierless'
    now:
       increased fee's barriers some users
       transaction per block limits
       preference to divert transactions off bitcoin

    was:
       'electronic cash'(medium of exchange)
    now:
       'store of value'
       other pegged networks/services to handle 'medium of exchange'
       bloated transactions for smart features that are not simple plain 'cash transfer' concept
       preference to divert 'cash' transactions off bitcoin network
13862  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Protocol Stack Infographic (feedback wanted) on: January 05, 2019, 01:21:02 AM
starting at www.. all arrows lead to electric??

im sorry but electric leads to evrything
your arrows suggest
www->btc network[mining]->satellite[broadcast]->(+)->electric
www->LN[network]->satellite[routing]->(+)->electric
www->internet[physical]->(+)-> electric

seems you got things in wrong order

..
separately
satelites only used for crypto networks...?

...
13863  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How big this market really is? on: January 05, 2019, 12:13:26 AM
the only reason companies like circle are publishing such numbers is because say there is a 0.1% fee..

its telling investors of companies like blockstream that their 'liquid' otc swap software. made companies like DCG.co
$24,000,000 ROI on the investment of dev teams making otc software
13864  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Lightning Network effect on Bitcoin's price on: January 05, 2019, 12:03:13 AM
LN wont be used for people making 1 coffee purchase a day. its Niche will end up being people that want to balance swap with exchanges to arbitrage without waiting for confirmations.

people in the past would sell a btc for dollars on an exchange with highest btc-dollar rate.
then to arbitrage buy an alt with fast confirm. use that to exit one exchange go to another exchange with a cheap btc-dollar rate and then deposit alt to then sell for dollar to buy btc cheap

then hope to withdraw the btc to then return to the high btc-dollar to repeat.

.. stable coins sorted out the need to use an alt to shift dollar without wire transfer and LN will sort out shifting btf without confirm.

so those who love and dont mind locking their BTC up with custodians will use LN for that purpose.

LN wont be much of a vault for people that just buy coffee and groceries because the once a day, require to preplan a fortnight/couple month spending and the worry of route raiding, partners offline just are not convenient enough. people will just buy giftcards for their favourite merchants for convenience.

emphasis
LN's lockup would moreso be for the custodian factory of exchanges using the locked btc as a international 'reserve' system for inter-exchange swaps
13865  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: bitcoin lowest value of the year. Other perspective on: January 04, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Stats like this is misleading, because it shows data that are cherry picked to fit the agenda of the poster.

showing ATH is misleading.
because 99.9% of people wont be able to sell at the ATH

but the lows show that holders ALWAYS have the chance to sell at or above the low.. because the price nevr goes lower then that number

EG take 2018
ATH:$20k
ATL: $3200

pick any day of the year. literally any day. you have 365 days to choose..
now whats the chances that your going to get to sell your coin at or above the 2 numbers above

ATH: 0.27%
ATL: 100%

in 2018 you were always able to sell your coin at or above $3200 GUARANTEED(in hindsight)
13866  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: REGULATIONS - A boon or a tale of woe? on: January 04, 2019, 02:48:39 PM
in short
pro for regulation people
1: "price rise. let loads of people in so i can exit and return to fiat as a millionaire" (facepalm)

con for regulation
1: unbanked need a bank,
2: need an ID,
3: need minimum deposit to cover the fee's of regulated custodians labour and insurances
4: upper limits of withdrawals
5: risk of funds bing frozen simply because you want all your funds out in one go
6: have to be questioned why you want your funds out
7: extra bureaocracy and big costs for people who want to start businesses
8: it doesnt put custodians in prison
9: it only inprisons custodians who didnt register and pay regulators fee's
10: scammers still scam but can now just say they are bankrupt
11: people cant freely use funds for any purpose anywhere any time. they have to obide by laws

..
im all for things like 'consumer protection' laws that can help identify custodians and actually let victims of malicious custodians get a fair and available route to redress/compensation. but regulations is not actually consumer protection.
regulation is to turn custodians into police police to monitor and control its customers
13867  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Have you participated in the "Proof of Keys" event? on: January 04, 2019, 02:36:20 PM
Oh come on franky1. It was nothing but a few Bitcoiners having some fun celebrating the anniversary of the genesis block. There is no need to be paranoid, and be suspicious about it.

no paranoia. thats your emotional game.
i just think outside of the box. of multiple possibilities..  and laugh at those that only follow one storyline
13868  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How Many Full Nodes Bitcoin Online ? on: January 04, 2019, 02:26:38 PM
seeing as topic creator has meandered into the depths of LN.
and to conclude my point about LN's issues with bitcoin

especially with the "proof of keys" initiative. (people should care more about 100% ownership than no/co-controlled convenience)

(numbers are loose pencil calculated back of the envelope of bytes that go into the 1mb base)(i didnt count witness as they dont apply to the tx count limit)
(being very economical(i rounded down bytes) to prevent the fluffy pony crowd arguments)

5k nodes, 18k channels = ~3.6 channels per node

to continue, open the ~4 channels lets call that 330bytes 1 in 4 out
close channels 4 in 8 out lts call that 670bytes

so lets call each user 1000bytes per open and close (being very economical with numbers)

so each block is the equivalent of 1000 users data requirement for LN overall (if no one else uses the bitcoin network for pure bitcoin network usage)
you would thing, wow thats great 144,000 users a day (if no one else uses the bitcoin network for pure bitcoin network usage)
you would think, wow great thats 8million users wanting 2 months lockin. (if no one else uses the bitcoin network for pure bitcoin network usage)

but no

thats means if 8 million users all opened. realise they made a mistake and closed on same day. it would take 2 months to sort out the bottleneck(if no one else uses the bitcoin network for pure bitcoin network usage)

lets word it another way 144,000 users can enter and leave LN each day (if no one else uses the bitcoin network for pure bitcoin network usage)

see why the bitcoin network needs scaling even if LN is used

silly people think the solution to this is just to force people to not be allowed to lock funds up for 1 day. and instead mandate people lock funds up for 2weeks-2months
silly people think the solution to this is just to force people use factories to not be allowed to unlock funds and instead reopen offchain mandate people never to unlock funds unless they pay a factory a large fee
13869  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How big this market really is? on: January 04, 2019, 02:56:25 AM
Circle Executed $24 Billion in OTC Trades in 2018

source : https://cointelegraph.com/news/circle-executed-24-billion-in-otc-trades-in-2018


There are a lot of transactions through OTC and based on the above article OTC transactions are not reflected in the cryptocurrency market https://coinmarketcap.com/ since there is OTC does not require 3rd party like crypto Exchanges.

I was thinking, maybe there are bigger transactions done through OTC combine, compared to the total marketcap now which is $130,315,196,527 •

What's your thoughts on this?

the market cap is a meaningless number
it has always been meaningless. will people just stop referring to it

anyone can surpass the market cap using just $5

yep
make an altcoin with 5 trillion coins. buy one for $5 and automatically have $25TRILLION market cap

yep thats how empty and foolish the market cap measure is
it does not deserve any attention, so dont give it any attention
13870  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin and other cryptocurencies are not necessary says Chinese people on: January 04, 2019, 12:25:03 AM
Previously bitcoin was a champion there,

actually it wasnt
antpool is actually made up of like half a dozen facilities spread out over multiple countries
f2pool is just a stratum. (server) and people around the world linked to it
slushpool is managed from thailand
i could go on

but most propaganda was that those main pools were all "china"

even things like the ASICs. people thought was "china". but infact if they studied geography and researched the manufacturer they would know that taiwan is a separate island and country called the 'republic of china' which is different than china itself 'peoples republic of china'

anyway geography put aside

in the past it was 1% of people thought/knew about bitcoin. then a few percent.. an now if that statistic had any merit..... 34% say bitcoin has a place in the economy. which (without fluffy clouding it) if it has merit, then thats good news.

dont worry about the 66% just like no one cared about 99% just a couple years ago
the point is 34% is actually significant and positive number
13871  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Lightning Network effect on Bitcoin's price on: January 03, 2019, 10:53:20 PM
That's one of the reasons why Bitcoin has risen to such heights even if its real world use remained minuscule

bitcoins main thing that raises the price SUSTAINABLY is the market:mining dynamic

its why POS is so crappy. because even with beleived "better features".. the cost of its creation does not play out a good "whats the cheapest way to get the coin.

if it costs $4100 to mine 1 bitcoin then people would b willing to pay many thousands just to buy it...
.. as long as BITCOIN has utility and desire

if a PoS costs $0 to make then people wont pay thousands for it.

yes there is speculation on top which is where bitcoin moves way up from the underlying value.
yes there is speculation on top which is where PoS coin moves way up from $0 value.

but the speculative layer ontop value is subjective and not sustainable.
so LN is more speculative than an actual thing that will provide sustained underlying value

..
once you understand that. you can then run scenarios. and if bitcoin becomes to costly to transact as a bitcoin network. people will exit LN using other altcoins. thus making bitcoins desire/utility far less.
if desire for bitcoins net work desire declines people will end up mining other coins. again less desire for bitcoin when the mining:market dynamics play out.

so those fluffy clouders that over sell LN not realising that it can actually make things like litecoin become more popular, end up shooting themselves in the foot overselling LN and not concentrating on BITCOIN NETWORK things
13872  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Lightning Network effect on Bitcoin's price on: January 03, 2019, 10:01:02 PM
LN is not a bitcoin only network feature
LN is a separate network that multiple coins can and do use.
the proof that its a different network is to simply ask you what does N stand for in LN

again sorry to tell you this but lightning will not give bitcoin any unique functionality

I've never seen a compelling argument from you as to why this is a problem. Interoperable protocols can give us unprecedented functionality. Why does it have to be unique to Bitcoin? In fact, nothing is going to be unique to Bitcoin since it's open source and permissionless. Anyone can port its features into other altcoins and protocols.
LN has never been a bitcoin feature its always been a separate network.. infact bitcoin needed to change to become compatible to LN... LN did not change to be compatible to bitcoin

so stop advertising it as a bitcoin feature as if its something that will boost bitcoin and saying its somthing that bitcoin has and its linked as a bitcoin feature and a layer of bitcoin.. in a way that foolishly implies that it will make bitcoin supreme compared to other coins

what you then need to do stop saying bitcoins network needs to raise fees and shouldnt scale the bitcoin network with your empty fear arguments that scaling bitcoins network would harm bitcoin node users
purely to attempt to get people to depopulate bitcoins network and to then not want to return to the bitcoin network
i say this as your the one that seems to want to reduce bitcoins desire/demand/utility.
(much like 18th century banks told people to vault up gold, use co-signed accounts/unaudited payments. and then only exit with silver)
its the old thunderdome: 2 coins enter one may leave

so if you really want to promote LN FACTUALLY and fairly
1. inform people that its a multicoin separate network useful for a NICHE of users that spend often
             emphasis on niche..
             not something for everyone
             not essential thing that solves everything including scaling
2. inform people of the risks (not just the fluffy unicorns)
3. also try to persuade devs of bitcoin to adopt a fee priority mechanism for bitcoin to punish spammers(regular spenders) more than just average people. thus incentivising regular spenders into the niche use case of LN. while not harming everyone else who wants to fairly remain on the bitcoin network

atleast be critical (meaning pros and cons).. rather than the fake over promises/ under commitment fluffy cloud stuff you have been pushing
13873  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Have you participated in the "Proof of Keys" event? on: January 03, 2019, 08:36:20 PM
to the sheep
1. proof of keys is not about "sovereignty" it is about a subtle ruse/story to take funds out of an exchange in the hopes(of trace mayor) that the lack of supply of coins on an exchange will cause a flash price rise. but....
2. day traders that actually day trade will continue to day trade.
3. those that dont day trade and just use exchanges as a custodian, means:
       balance sat in exchange wallets(just for custodial purpose) is not balance sat on market order lines.
       thus are free to withdraw without impacting their normal daily activity,
       thus never impacted the price anyway.

so do not expect huge price movements via trace mayors ruse
i do not think trace mayor will get his hidden agenda of a flash price spike like he intends. as the only people that would withdraw ar the ones that are not actually day traders in the first place

...
what will actually cause more of a price surge. is the mining:market dynamic
new next gen asics are being received and set right now. with hashrates rising. the cost of mining rises.
those playing the "which is cheaper mining:buying coins" will see that buying can be cheaper. thus raising the price when they buy

then asic miners see the price rise that gives them confidence to mine more. which causes more cost of mining. rinse and repeat the dynamic upwards
and the dynamic plays out.


in october last year(3 months ago) the dynamic played out the opposite way.
old gen asics sold dirt cheap made mining cheap so less were buying coin. and more were mining and then selling coin for profit. causing the november down slope. other miners were not as profitable so stopped mining. causing more drama

the mining:market dynamic has always been a thing since 2009, so keep an eye on that as a influencer this month
13874  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin and other cryptocurencies are not necessary says Chinese people on: January 03, 2019, 07:54:33 PM
fud= fear uncertainty, doubt

saying something is unnecessary is not going to cause fear
saying something is unnecessary is not going to cause uncertainty
saying something is unnecessary is not going to cause doubt

66% of americans think that a passport is unnecessary because they have no plans to leave the country.
this does not mean that passports are useless
this does not mean that passports are to be feared or people holding passports should be afraid
this does not mean that passports are now in doubt

what you need to consider is if this stat was properly representational of china
34% of chinese would consider crypto
13875  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of Keys / Proof of Trust / Bitcoin Independence Day on: January 03, 2019, 05:48:41 PM
to the sheep
1. proof of keys is not about "sovereignty" it is about a subtle ruse/story to take funds out of an exchange in the hopes(of trace mayor) that the lack of supply of coins on an exchange will cause a flash price rise. but....
2. day traders that actually day trade will continue to day trade.
3. those that dont day trade and just use exchanges as a custodian, means:
       balance sat in exchange wallets(just for custodial purpose) is not balance sat on market order lines.
       thus are free to withdraw without impacting their normal daily activity,
       thus never impacted the price anyway.

so do not expect huge price movements via trace mayors ruse
i do not think trace mayor will get his hidden agenda of a flash price spike like he intends. as the only people that would withdraw ar the ones that are not actually day traders in the first place

...
what will actually cause more of a price surge. is the mining:market dynamic
new next gen asics are being received and set right now. with hashrates rising. the cost of mining rises.
those playing the "which is cheaper mining:buying coins" will see that buying can be cheaper. thus raising the price when they buy

then asic miners see the price rise that gives them confidence to mine more. which causes more cost of mining. rinse and repeat the dynamic upwards
and the dynamic plays out.


in october last year(3 months ago) the dynamic played out the opposite way.
old gen asics sold dirt cheap made mining cheap so less were buying coin. and more were mining and then selling coin for profit. causing the november down slope. other miners were not as profitable so stopped mining. causing more drama

the mining:market dynamic has always been a thing since 2009, so keep an eye on that as a influencer this month
13876  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can a Bank Run Financial Activies on Blockchain Without Crypto Currency ? on: January 03, 2019, 05:22:04 PM
We  all on blockchain is the future and  every all institutions  and every country  is adopting Blockchain ! Today  i wan to  ask if Can a Banking Sector  can run transactions on blockchain without creating their own Crypto Currency? ..

"transactions"
moving value /financial transaction is by very definition creating their own crypto currency.

however
a blockchain can be used to run a ID blockchain to allow/reject which members of staff have access to different data
a blockchain can be used to run a customer personal details blockchain to keep customers home addresses uptodate
a blockchain can be used to run a call centre log of calls taken by particular staff in different call centres
13877  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Lightning Network effect on Bitcoin's price on: January 03, 2019, 05:10:27 PM
If you ask me, it is likely the first metric ever that distinguishes Bitcoin from other currencies

LN is not a bitcoin only network feature
LN is a separate network that multiple coins can and do use.
the proof that its a different network is to simply ask you what does N stand for in LN

LN will still function even if no bitcoiner uses it because litecoin, vertcoin and other coins will use it.

sorry to burst your overpromised over advertised fluffy cloud. but LN was only hyping up the "bitcoin" buzzword
to hype up some investment from VC's

just like Circle(a fiat company)
just like Coinbase(a fiat company)
where they too play around with multiple coins/currencies. but kept on shouting out "bitcoin" to get funding

again sorry to tell you this but lightning will not give bitcoin any unique functionality

research it. hint: chainhash
here ill even show you a few lines of code that LN is not a bitcoin feature but a separate network for different coins
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/chainregistry.go#L580
Code:
	litecoinMainnetGenesis = chainhash.Hash([chainhash.HashSize]byte{
0xe2, 0xbf, 0x04, 0x7e, 0x7e, 0x5a, 0x19, 0x1a,
0xa4, 0xef, 0x34, 0xd3, 0x14, 0x97, 0x9d, 0xc9,
0x98, 0x6e, 0x0f, 0x19, 0x25, 0x1e, 0xda, 0xba,
0x59, 0x40, 0xfd, 0x1f, 0xe3, 0x65, 0xa7, 0x12,
})

// chainMap is a simple index that maps a chain's genesis hash to the
// chainCode enum for that chain.
chainMap = map[chainhash.Hash]chainCode{

bitcoinMainnetGenesis:  bitcoinChain,
litecoinMainnetGenesis: litecoinChain,
}

^note LITECOIN is coded into it by default, just for starters
13878  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can I clone repo, make PoW easier and create fake Bitcoin ? on: January 03, 2019, 04:50:47 PM
I don't totally understand your answer, sorry.

 I think that you are talking about the "official" nodes of Bitcoin, when you say that my blocks will be rejected. But if there are other nodes on another network, not on official Bitcoin network, they will be rejected too? I mean, those rules that reject Bitcoin blocks, will reject my blocks on another parallel network?

Thanks franky1

if you change a node to have different rules. only nodes that agree with YOUR rules will accept them
(thus you are just making an altcoin)
people running bitcoin nodes will not get your coin because your coin is not on the bitcoin network. thus no confusion
as the 2 networks wont co-mingle

you are not making fake bitcoins. you are making an altcoin.
there are already atleast a few hundred networks with coins that took the bitcoin code and changed many things
there are already atleast a dozen networks with 'near' claims of being the same as bitcoin

but no one gives a crap about them. no one cares about them as they do not impact bitcoin

you can try and play the social drama games.
such as NXT tried with "bitcoin2.0" in 2013 .. but people laughed and dismissed it
such as BCH tried with "bitcoin cash" in 2017 .. people laughed and dismissed it(some still poke at irrelevant social drama)

but the only way to actually claim to be bitcoin. would to actually surpass bitcoin where your network takes it over
13879  Economy / Speculation / Re: The truth about the 20k bitcoin last year on: January 03, 2019, 04:23:37 PM
first of all bitconnect is just an exchange that turned into/revealed itself as a scamming business.
bitconnect is not bitcoin. and bitcoin is not bitconnect.
one is code, the other is a business. they are completely different things

Face it BTC fanboys- your coin is garbage and noone can use it for anything- the only reason it had any usage was in the beginning when people used it to buy drugs on the darknet but other than that- screw bitcoin

..
now prove me wrong, lol

i personally pay my bills. buy groceries and many things with bitcoin. i have not had any FIAT worries since 2012

the problem is not bitcoin.
the problem is that people think bitcoin:
   is some AI that:
          self codes and self evolves
          will visit your local grocery store and set itself up with your local shop
          that is not reliant on devs to evolve.
   needs to process every transaction(fud:"gigabytes by midnight") or no transactions(fud:"medium of exchange failed")).
          they feel if it cant be used to buy a google ad at 0.001cent.
          that bitcoin needs to be pushed to cost people $0.10-$10 and then use a different network for everything.
                 i personally can buy coffee with bitcoin (yes people will be shocked) and no i dont need LN to do it.
                 and no its not due to temporary low fees allowing it.

bitcoin will not mow your lawn for you. YOU need to phone a gardener. and ASK the gardener if they will accept bitcoin
bitcoin will not buy your groceries for you. YOU need to go to your grocery store and ASK the store if they will accept bitcoin
bitcoin will not teach you about itself. YOU need to do the research and YOU need to help others to learn about it

and a big tip for many.
when you have learned a little. do not go around with fluffy cloud unicorns of over prmised over promoted things to think it will entice more people into using it. do not oversell the purpose of bitcoin. be free and liberated to also admit its flaws.
firstly it allows people to know what its really about. and if they do get into it they know they will get what they expect.
no hope no trust needed. it just does what it does.

too many go for the over optimistic hope of fluffy cloud future, which ends up frustrating more people than those who are
open to mention the critical issues.
mentioning the critical issues is good. because outside the echo chambers o fluffy clouds. may be an outsider that can see
a solution that the echochamber has ignored, not thought of. because the echo chamber is too stuck following a single path roadmap to fluffy cloud land
13880  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can I clone repo, make PoW easier and create fake Bitcoin ? on: January 03, 2019, 04:01:14 PM
as soon as you make it different where the PoW is easier (EG algo change)
the algo's wont match. so your blocks would get rejected within 2 seconds of being seen.

if you just tried to mine your chain at a constant low difficulty to get to block 5***** to surpass bitcoins block height. it wont matter. because bitcoin nodes will have a higher accumulation of the hashes security and would again reject blocks/blockchains displaying less security

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