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141  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Do you prefer betting your own predictions or from prediction site on: March 11, 2024, 02:58:41 PM
There are gamblers who have great instincts and can forecast games that may end up winning the bet. But they are scared that they may lose. They dont trust their own betting predictions so they would rather go to a gambling prediction site to some daily betting tips.

So i want to know as a gambler that you are, do you feel following those betting predictions from those sites would favour us in gambling more than our own predictions? For me i trust my predictions and i have won more when i predict for myself than letting someone predict for me.

Only an inexperienced gambler thinks this way. Experienced gamblers understand so well that prediction sites cannot guarantee you winning. Gambling sites are run by humans who are not immune to the unpredictable nature of gambling. Most of the prediction sites will make you lose more money. But then, I don`t blame the site rather I will blame the gamblers who rely so much on them. I love to take responsibility for my actions and that is why I cannot rely on prediction sites. I don’t want to apportion blame or have regrets or feelings that if I had predicted on my own I would have won.

I do my analysis by myself, gather information about a game and then make good predictions. Even though I don`t win every day I am sure I record significant winning than most of the prediction sites. It is my advice that gamblers should be guided by their research and not follow prediction websites. These sites are there to make money for themselves and are not worried whether you win or not.
142  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Gambling Management on: March 11, 2024, 02:44:02 PM
If it's going to work for you that every time you win, you take back your bankroll then proceed to that plan that you've got and just keep doing what you've started through it. You have nothing to lose except the profit that you've made with your previous bets. If you keep doing this so, there is nothing for you to mourn when you are on the verge of losing. You just let it go and just accept the losses. Unlike if you are going to have it with so much profit together with the bankroll or capital that you have, you'd feel bad if you lose all of it.
So, every time that you're going to gamble then you have to check it that you're able to remove your bankroll when you win. And that is so whenever you proceed, you're only gambling with your profits and not anymore with the original amount that you're able to start with. Having that so will make you confident that you have nothing to worry about if things go south and the fate of yours didn't do good by that day. Start gambling with your profits, or you can actually do the opposite, you can take your profit and continue going on with your bankroll. Whichever is comfortable to you, you do it. That's how gambling is and whichever is effective to you then you have to make sure that it does work on you without having any regrets.

Then what happens when you have consecutive losses and then lose your bankroll? Over the internet, there are so many strategies but the reality is that nothing works well with gambling. I think that instead of strategizing to win, it is better to control your loss by ensuring that only 5% of your income is utilized in gambling. A gambler can control how much he spends on gambling but cannot control the outcome of the game. The reason is not farfetched. Gambling has always been a game of randomness and probability so predicting the outcome is almost impossible except you are lucky.

Since gambling involves luck, it justifies that no strategy can work. I have tried rollover with 1.50 odds to rollover the 1.50odds for 15 days but I didn’t win. I reduced the odd to 1.30 just to mitigate risk and still couldn’t complete the rollover. I advise you not to place your mind towards making money from gambling but rather use it as a pastime activity.
143  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Support, do not criticize. on: March 11, 2024, 02:10:06 PM
The chances are limited but that doesn't means family and friends can't gives their supports to the addicted to gambling because they should helps the addicted to gambling to cure his addiction. It needs awareness from the addicted to gambling knowing that he already have addiction to gambling and he must talk to his family and friends about his problems so they can immediately helping him by seeking a way to start curing his addiction. When family and friends with the addicted to gambling can realize and give supports to him, he will knows that he is not alone because his family and friends will always besides him. This also gives trusted from his family and friends that he is serious to cure his addiction, especially if the addicted to gambling already seen what happens to him. Together, they will have a chance to helped the addicted to gambling and maybe doesn't need to takes too long to see the addicted can slowly cure his addiction. People deserves a second chance to get his normal life back but that depends on how the addicted to gambling wants to cures his addiction.

Those who doesn't get any supports from their family and friends can't survive from his addiction and become worst because they don't know how they must do and how they can cure his addiction. Yes, supports from family and friends gives an impact to the addicted person to gambling to realizes about his problems and cure his addiction.

The journey must begin with the addicted gambler. Some addicts prefer talking to a stranger about their addiction than to a friend or family member. This is wrong in my thinking. Friends and family are in the best position to help out. After an addict has accepted that he is into problem gambling, the support of friends and family becomes imperative since it will help the gambler to heal faster. The feeling of being loved and wanted by friends and family is good support for the addicted gambler. When one considers that family will not laugh at the addicted gambler but rather give a helping hand, the role of family becomes indispensable.

I remember gambling with money that was supposed to be used to settle some family bills. When my mom found out she didn’t talk down on me but handled the matter in a way that I felt self-guilt and vowed within myself not to repeat such behaviour. This lays credence to the fact that family support is key in helping an addict.
144  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: A personal view on: March 11, 2024, 01:57:11 PM
👉 how do you view women gambling in your area:

I don’t feel anything when I see women gambling. I feel it's their life and money and so I don’t care. I don`t segregate between a male and a female gambler and so it becomes normal for me to see a woman gambling.


👉how do you view notorious gamblers:

I am very pissed off when I see someone losing badly and yet refusing to stop. Like why would you put your hands in fire and refuse to remove it even when it is hurting? Such gamblers can easily transfer aggression to another person and so I am very careful with them.


👉how do you really feel when you lose money on gambling? 

I feel bad even though I always gamble with what I can afford to lose. Sometimes, my mood is not because of the amount I lost but because it is a good feeling when you win.

👉how do you spend your gambling wins:

It depends on the amount. However, most times when I win, I pay bills and chill with friends.

👉how do you feel when peopel ask you for money to gamble?, do you gamble with debt?  Or would you never indulge in such no matter how sure you are about the game ?

I don’t give people money to gamble. If you ever mention to me that the reason for asking me for money is to gamble, I will not give. I don’t encourage people to borrow money to gamble.

👉Do you set rules or limits on how much you stake per week to control your addiction or you are disciplinedenough to know when to stop?

I always set a budget for myself but I must say I don’t stick to the budget all the time.

👉behind the mask of loving to gamble if you get rich would you still gamble or never again?

Even if I become the world`s richest man, I will still gamble. I gamble for fun and I cannot stop having fun because I am rich.
145  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Premier League Prediction Thread 2023/2024 on: March 11, 2024, 05:40:26 AM
Arsenal is at the top of the standings but has the same points as Liverpool so Arsenal cannot sit comfortably at the top by just relying on their current goal total, I am very happy to see that the top 3 teams are competing with only a very narrow difference in points, making the competition very It's interesting that until now it's not clear who will be the winner because the three teams are still playing very well, whether Liverpool or Arsenal, they all have the opportunity to break Man City's dominance.
EPL managers are the best, having a solid experience and triggered their clubs to be better in shape and overcoming challenges. Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp have managed to sealed the drawing for the EPL title but Mikel Arteta coming out from nowhere to compete is definitely what we keen to watch, Arsenal have gather some guts to be in the title race this season. Remember what happen last time, they had their chances but in the last days, they started having flopping results and cause the team to lose ground and also losing points in matches.

Picking up interest in the English Premier League, we've seen and watched the outstanding performances from these clubs, and they're having an incredible season hitting their peak performance against opponents. It's more snug at the top, and these prominent clubs will have an overwhelmingly competitive drive. Arsenal leads, but they and Liverpool share the same number of points. Let's get things straight: Arsenal has been on fire in current games, and this is an incredible performance from the Gunners. Mikel Arteta is doing an excellent job of completing the ignition key duties.
146  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Try to stick to your instincts as a gambler on: March 11, 2024, 01:25:50 AM
Does gamblers really have instincts or it is again just a pure luck? This of this, if this is an instinct, then it can be trained, inherited, it is somewhere in DNA. It cant out of nowhere, there must be an explanation of its existence. Yet we have in this gambling section have discussed already that it is impossible to get gambling genes, nor train any advantage in prediction. So isnt it then just some kind of form of random, rather than an instinct? And you notice how this work only in win scenario? We always caught our-self thinking "if I would do this, I would have won". But we hardly pay attention or focus on "If I would have done this, I would have lost".

From my experience, I stand on the opinion that humans have instinct and this instinct even manifests in the area of gambling. I have won in gambling simply by following my inner mind. Sometimes in the course of predicting games something might just tell me to remove certain games or options and when I follow my mind I end up winning. Let me share an experience here to justify the role of instinct in gambling. Early this month, a friend of mine called me on the phone to tell me that his instinct was telling him that the Sheffield vs Arsenal match in the English Premier League would produce over 5goals. Surprisingly, the game produced over 5goals and I won the bet because I followed my friend`s instinct.

Well, this doesn’t happen all the time because there are times I doubt certain games based on my instincts and then remove the game only for the game to play and even sometimes when my instinct directs me to play a game, I still lose. The nature of gambling has made it so impossible to win even with your instinct.
147  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Germany League - Bundesliga Prediction Thread on: March 10, 2024, 10:59:24 PM
Kane scored again, 2 goals against Leipzig. He is comfortably at number 1 Top Scores. But with this excellent performance, it seems that he cannot have the first Bundesliga championship title. Munich didn't buy him wrong, it's just that he looks unlucky because Leverkusen is very strong this season. Nagelsmann's substitution to Tuchel also did not show maximum results. Tuchel is even worse than Nagelsmann.
Bundesliga is difficult and we should be expecting more shocking game outcome because football is full of surprises. Bavarians are not suppose to be on this same level again because they've grind and knows the mode of operation of th Bundesliga. However they're still struggling to win matches and this is poor results for them because the board made a mistake by sacking Julian Nagelsmann who stand firm to take his team forward. The present coach have no better or upgraded stats than the former coach, however good news will be spread within time.

Bayern Munich was fortunate to sign the Englishman since his presence is critical to the club's advancement in the future. Harry Kane is seen as the long-awaited replacement for former Bayern Munich forward Robert Lewandowski. I feel that over time, Harry Kane will outperform and have greater statistical accuracy than the previous striker. Harry Kane would have made this crucial move to Bayern Munich a few years ago; by now, he will be the Bundesliga's greatest player thanks to his numerous goals.
148  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Italian League Prediction Thread (Serie A) on: March 10, 2024, 10:34:15 PM
Another good result for De Rossi.

Since he joined he got all wins, 1 loss and 1 tie.


They already forgot Mou.
Who forgot about José Mourinho? He will forever be remembered because he lifted the club to this very phase in Seria A. José Mourinho presence with AS Roma was worth it, he brought them to limelight after all these years and achieving major titles with the club. Perhapes his time was up when the team started to decline in performance and it separately sends a losing message to the fans. A winning is important for every elite team in league, there's no greater chance than watching the performance of a struggling club transforming to be more better than the previous phase. AS Roma in 5th position on the league table and they're bringing everything to deliver in matches.

Daniele De Rossi filed for important winnings and at the end of the day, he will achieved his targets, the only difference will be time. The new coach filling in the shoes of José Mourinho have been delivering good jobs for the team. Perhaps he still have to improve because there's more to fixed in the club's due to the relenting efforts focused from the players. Though it's not an easy job to watch how these clubs will continue to win games and also having lose ends when it comes to accumulating important points on the table.
149  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: La Liga (Spanish League) Prediction Thread 2023/24 on: March 10, 2024, 10:22:00 PM
Jude was ruled out due to the red card he picked up against Valencia but it looks like Ancelotti is confident that their 4-3-1-2 formation will end up working and it's a good confidence boost as they didn't even give Celta a moment's peace and won by a landslide this week.

On the other hand, despite the 2 own goals by Celta players in this match, I think we are fully aware that Madrid's performance has improved again after their previous finishing problems and in this match I also want to praise Brahim's performance which I think is very good. Brahim in Madrid this season is like Camavinga and some other defenders where he can be flexible and play anywhere.
Honestly, in today's game I thought Madrid would go for a 4-3-3 where Diaz was used as a winger but it was a mistake where Diaz was used as a replacement for Jude who couldn't play as a second striker but the result was still very good.

Real Madrid catches an average team, they ensure to calmly flogged them, however the team needs more key players to elevate their stats and having glorious moment in football. Real Madrid are claiming the La Liga title this season and there's definitely nothing any opposition can do about it, instead these oppositions will fight for their spot in the UCL space in the current season because anything making an elite club losing out will be totally pained. Real Madrid are simply not on the same level with Barcelona and Atletico Madrid this season, they bring on the best options to win matches with ease actions.

Real Madrid frontrunner, Carlo Ancelotti knows what to expects and how to manahe his team, he's been here for years and can easily indicates the good backup replacement for his key players. Jude Bellingham is an important member of the team but his absence in today's game against Celta de Vigo didn't count because Real Madrid humbled their opponents. Thrashing the  visitors 4 nil was a comfortable winning for them and they have nothing to lose but pushing harder in upfront matches.
150  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: ⚽ Football Transfers Speculation, Odds and Predictions on: March 10, 2024, 10:06:15 PM
PSG will probably spend a lot this transfer window as they themselves have stated that they will no longer go after players like messi, neymar and so on(just an analogy), apparently they want to buy players who will fit better into the squad and not for their past achievements. PSG seem to have finally realised how to build a team properly, so it's quite possible they could buy the same Osimhen for big money. After all, when it comes to money, it's all about price and if Napoli are offered a large sum, they are unlikely to turn it down
PSG have failed all these years and they keep making countless attempts. PSG have everything to lift the UEFA Champions League title but at the end of the day, we will see them struggling and getting eliminated from the top tournaments. PSG are desperately in need of important players that will fill in the gap of Kylian Mbappe who's leaving the club at the end of the season. PSG president, Nasser Al-Khelaifi and the coach, Luis Enrique will work hand in hand to ensure they run smooth game and achieving top targets for the club.

Offering an substantial amount does not reflect the worth and importance of the Nigerian international; he is highly significant and delivers at crucial moments. Victor Osimhen is a quality striker who is not cheap since he has what most attackers are lacking and intends to explore the European football scene. Napoli has him in their custody, and they are doing nothing to urge him to leave; rather, his presence is completely necessary in Napoli. There are players that are only well-known and have little bearing on the club's success.

151  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Premier League Prediction Thread 2023/2024 on: March 10, 2024, 09:49:55 PM
It was the best possible result for Gunners. Liverpool and Manchester City drew and Arsenal ended the week in the lead. It's been a long time since they were in the lead. I hope we can see them here at the end of the season.
Honestly, I still see City ahead of others. The match on March 31st will affect the fate of the league. Arsenal had a great form, but the national break is coming, this may affect them negatively.
Manchester City, Liverpool, and Arsenal are the three primary challengers for the English Premier League this season. They are in the running for the EPL title. When it comes to elite teams, matches are played to the utmost extent possible; they do not encounter shortcomings but assure they can attain the highest possible stakes. We are currently watching the Gunners in their greatest appearance, and they have everything they need to move on and win top matches. Arsenal are back on top of the EPL standings, and this time they will ensure immense victories in the upcoming fixtures.

Mikel Arteta learned from his masters and he's doing exactly what he ought to understand, not minding the business but keen on planning excellence in matches. Arsenal is a top club and this might be the season for them to lift the EPL title only if they're able to maintain consistency. Mikel Arteta and his players have been phenomenal in matches, and we have witnessed the club's winning results. There's no appropriate time for them to relent because their rivals are fierce in matches and they will also fight from their end.


152  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: It’s unlikely that anyone besides you will be happy with your winnings. on: March 10, 2024, 08:35:53 AM
Anyone can envy winnings even close friends especially if the friend is in secret competition with you. This is predicated on the fact that we cannot rule out an enemy disguised as a friend from our circle. I have an experience in the past. I had a winning and some of my friends expected me to distribute the winning among them but I didn't do this and they picked offense. Instead of being happy with me for the win, they became angry and one of them abused me directly.

From my experience, even though winning is good and all that a gambler craves for but then it is capable of tearing friends apart. It is important to note here that surprisingly, most of the time strangers seem to be happy for your win than even a friend. A stranger wants to win like you whereas a friend is concerned about benefitting from the win and when they don't benefit, winning in gambling becomes a nightmare.
153  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Does possessing information play an important role in betting ? on: March 10, 2024, 07:17:58 AM
Information is power. The difference between a successful gambler and an unsuccessful gambler is information. Most successful gamblers especially in sports betting try to gather accurate information about a game before it is added to their selection. This may not attract a 100% winning rate but can help mitigate the risks and losses in gambling. Some gamblers don’t worry about getting information about a game since they believe that gambling is strictly a game of luck and winning is not predetermined by the information but by chance. In my understanding, even though no amount of information can guarantee winning all the time, the role of information is indispensable in gambling.

Knowing the list of injured players, head-to-head statistics, morale, new signings, home advantage etc can help a sports bettor make better predictions. I have always researched games before I add them to my selections and I can boldly say that I am profiting from gambling. Even though I don’t win every day, I still record significant wins that override the losses.
154  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: A call to self-examining our gambling habit. on: March 10, 2024, 06:28:01 AM
Generally, self-examination is very important in human life. In his wisdom, Socrates noted that unexamined life is not worth living. This justifies the importance of self-examination. In gambling, knowing your wins and losses is so important as it tells you if gambling has a positive or a negative connotation in your life. Any gambler, who has mastered the act of self-examination in his gambling activities will find it difficult to be addictive because before the gambler gets to that point, the gambler will stop gambling or reduce his gambling activities. In my understanding, if self-examination can not bring healthy gambling then its purpose has been defeated.

I will add that sometimes a gambler doesn’t have to wait for self-appraisal before learning responsible gambling practices. In fact, responsible gambling practices should come first before self-examination. If it is the other way round, a gambler may incur irreparable losses before even trying to self-examine himself. This becomes a case of medicine after death.
155  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: How does the game of luck in gambling really works? on: March 10, 2024, 06:12:03 AM
In my thinking, a gambler can be lucky at any time and the fact that you were there is not the reason for such luck. Remember time and chance happen to them all. It was his day even if you were not there, he would have still won. When we consider that you didn’t predict the game for him, it becomes clearer that your luck lies in the fact that you were present and witnessed the winning and then benefitted from it. I will tell you something, if that luck was because of you, go to your friend again and watch him gamble, come back and tell me the outcome.

Gambling is a game of probability and human effort doesn’t affect the outcome of the game. There are some games I will place in football betting and I will be so positive that I will win but sadly, I don’t win those games and other times times when I least expect I win.
156  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: I just woke up and saw wins in my gambling app on: March 10, 2024, 05:53:41 AM
I haven`t experienced such since whenever I place a bet, I don’t forget about the game and so I follow the game till the end. Sometimes, when I hear some people say that they are too busy and then forget to check their games, it sounds weird to me because I often wonder how busy I could get and then forget that I placed a bet. Remember where a man`s treasure is his mind is always there. Well, I understand the OP, accumulating games for a long period might make someone forget if the multiple is so much. I only accumulate 3games and that is why forgetting the games and the options I played is impossible.

In gambling, winning is always unexpected as noted by the OP and this accounts for why people keep gambling frequently because you never can tell when it is your lucky day. Remember if you don`t gamble then you don’t expect to win. It is when you place a bet you can be hopeful for a win. This notwithstanding, do not be a reckless gambler and don’t gamble to become rich from it.
157  Economy / Reputation / Re: Reee: Which campaign has the most spammers? on: March 09, 2024, 07:37:16 PM
Shouldn't that tool only check for spelling mistakes? If you use it to get completely artificially constructed whole or parts of sentences, then AI detectors may detect them. Whatever you've been doing until now, I think you should change the way you create content on the forum - because English is not the native language of most forum members, but we try our best and with time most of us get better.

Original version

Quote
Grammarly and Quilbot are built with AI software so I feel that some posts enhance by this tools are captured by AI detectors. This tools helps turn my broken English and wrong use of the punctuation marks into extremely good English If you check my post history  posts without this tools are completely messed ( wrong wording and punctuation marks)

Post enhanced by grammarly/Quilbot

Grammarly and Quilbot are built with AI software, thus I believe that some writings modified with these tools are vetted by AI detectors. These tools assist me improve my broken English and incorrect use of punctuation marks. Check my post history; posts without these tools are severely messed up (wrong words and punctuation marks).

Routine: post here =>copy =>use grammarly/quilbot==>enhanced the grammar and punctuation marks==> post. Could be a bad practice but this seems to be the reason my posts get picked up by those detectors easily.

@nutildah your inputs and recommendations are duely noted. Thanks man. Appreciate everyone too. Better days ahead.
158  Economy / Reputation / Re: Reee: Which campaign has the most spammers? on: March 09, 2024, 10:04:47 AM
Honestly, these posts that were deleted by the moderators are absolute nonsense. It's even worse if you actually wrote something like that believing that it has any value. No matter how this "case" of yours ends, I advise you to think carefully about everything and accept the suggestions you get here. Judging by your answers in this thread, it is obvious that you can be constructive and direct in your communication and there is really no need to litter the forum with spam.

I appreciate your input; the next time I post, I will do my best to stay on topic and not give too many concepts in general. I always felt that providing additional details would help to raise the quality of discussion; I guess I was mistaken.

For example, suppose someone is discussing gambling depression.I try to share my honest thoughts on the first paragraph while also shedding additional light on the second paragraph about what gambling depression is, its harmful influence, and what happens to those that suffer from it. We learn every day, but I can honestly say that I never use any chatbots. I've been interacting on the meta and reputation boards without a chatbot, so why would I use it on something I'm passionate about ? (Gambling)

My problem could be with the grammarly keyboard I'm using; English is not my native language, so I use the grammarly keyboard to fix and improve my phrases after they've been written. It's possible that these AI detector sites picked up most of posts enhanced by Grammarly keyboards. I do not know. @powerGlove is this possible? I know you're a tech wizard.
159  Economy / Reputation / Re: Reee: Which campaign has the most spammers? on: March 08, 2024, 03:34:53 PM
I used the same AI detection website to test one of your most recent posts, and it came up 100% AI generated. Do you still believe the report, or are you using AI to post?

If I run your complete post history through the same system, I'll get more. These tools are imperfect and cannot be used.

https://sapling.ai/ai-content-detector/e5dc28b08011e3873a9da1980615e942
I'm not saying that these scanners are 100% accurate, try testing a few more websites on your reported posts, which as I mentioned already, looked AI-written, does mine look like it was written by an AI? Probably not, you can also ask other members. You believe that I want to prove my point but I actually don't. I'd rather be proven wrong and that your posts are actually human written, because it would suck seeing someone lose their spot in their signature campaign and/or in the forum.

All of the tools work in the same way and produce similar outcomes; they are simply different names for the same software. I've seen that every well-written post with proper punctuation is automatically rated "Fake" by these softwares. It's insane to have your reputation tarnished because of what some random websites say.

It's my words against a high-ranked profile, thus they don't matter. But I'd rather lose my campaign spot than admit what I didn't do. This is how I was raised.
160  Economy / Reputation / Re: Reee: Which campaign has the most spammers? on: March 08, 2024, 02:35:28 PM
You are entitled to your opinion, but I will not be pressured into admitting to something I did not do, and if the manager is fine with whatever the website detector report says, she can remove me; I do not want to be the reason the campaign is receiving negative energy. This is not pride; it is understanding who you are and not allowing others do it for you.

Thought I was leaving the reputation and Meta board for good
Most AI writers have a very specific way of typing—too formal or robotic—using certain expressions and words and some other characteristics. Your posts fit perfectly with what I'm referring to. It seems that you have nothing to say in your defense; if it were just one or two posts, I could possibly claim that it was a false positive, even though they look AI-written; however, Nutildah reported 9, which all fit perfectly into the category I just mentioned, and multiple detectors have shown the same results, so it's not my, his, her, or someone else's opinion.

I used the same AI detection website to test one of your most recent posts, and it came up 100% AI generated. Do you still believe the report, or are you using AI to post?

If I run your complete post history through the same system, I'll get more. These tools are imperfect and cannot be used.

https://sapling.ai/ai-content-detector/e5dc28b08011e3873a9da1980615e942

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/03/08/yr25g.jpeg

We're not anticipating thousands or millions of dollars worth of rewards when gambling on other games, which is why our chances are considerably better. Moreover, most gambling games have very specific outcomes (see roulette, dice, football betting, and so on), while the lottery is composed of numerous tickets with only a few actually winning anything of value. Add the low purchase cost and the large audience you mentioned, and your chances are statistically close to zero.

Personally, I'd rather use that money towards something else; these insignificant amounts we're discussing now can easily add up to reasonable amounts that could be used elsewhere.
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