I believe there are two Satoshi dice listings on btc-tc?

I think the plan is to let the market decide which passthrough provides the features that are in demand.

There are two ways to buy asicminer shares.

One is to find someone who owns asicminer shares and buy them off them.  These shares are not listed on any exchange, so all transfers are done privately (with ownership tracked by the management of asicminer, represented by friedcat here on the forums).

The other way is to buy Passthrough (PT) shares on one of the exchanges.  Bitfunder and BTC-TC are two exchanges I know of that host asicminer PTs.  A PT holds shares in asicminer and then lists those shares on the exchange 1 for 1 (or in the case of the PT I'm planning on launching, 1 for 100).  A PT normally charges a small fee on dividends before passing them on (usually less than 5%).

Added an FAQ section - the rest of the document is pretty wordy.  I'll be putting the FAQ on a page on btc-tc when the stock goes live.

While I like the idea of a dutch auction, when your client base is spread across all the timezones of the world, that makes it either very slow, or very unfair.  Maybe very slow would work - 24 hours per tier.

You could probably get around the slowness somewhat by pre-advertising the auction schedule, and people could make sure that they or someone they trust is around to bid for them when the auction price hits their limit.

The other option would be silent auction.

Although from what John has been saying it seems like many people wouldn't understand either dutch or silent auction rules, given how many don't seem to get how a 'normal' auction works.

That's a shame.  We have this incredible technology in our hands, and the best we can do to manage the auction is a python script that scrapes the auction page looking for something that looks like a bid, combined with a lot of manual effort by your good self and others.

Yes, cash up front.  Plus, the slow nature of 'get escrow -> make payment -> post in thread' means last minute sniping is hard to do.  Plus given that the auctioneers are involved in the placing of every bid, they can extend the auction by a couple of minutes for each escrow request?

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder.   The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread.  The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments.  Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

I have access to enough shares to do what I intended:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192448.0

However if anyone else wants to sell into the IPO, or sell options I can call on should the IPO be over-subscribed, please PM me.

That would almost certainly be the case.  No share settlement facility I'm aware of (and I'm aware of several - I work in the industry) allows partial shareholdings.  Any fractional holding would almost certainly be a broker-backed equivalent of a passthrough.  If anyone can point me towards any such thing in the "real world", please send a link - I'm quite curious.

I too had been in contact with burnside, discussing my plans.

I wish I had seen your post before I made mine.  I don't see much point in two passthroughs on the same exchange providing the same service, with very little difference.  Although competition is a good thing - maybe I'll list my passthrough on bitfunder too?

If the good people at btc-tc see fit to let both our passthroughs list then the market will get to choose.

You mean you?  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192498.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192499.0

Seriously, good luck, I hope it's a success.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.


If I'm reading correctly, you are complaining about the section on transfers from this passthrough to ASICMINER-PT?

I think you're reading in to this more than is there.  If I don't have ASICMINER-PT shares on hand to swap for  ASICMINER-100PT shares, then people can still redeem for ASICMINER shares.  And they can redeem their passthrough shares directly into the waiting hands of burnside, who will gladly convert them to ASICMINER-PT shares.

The relevant section is quoted below, I think it's quite clear, but then again I wrote it:


Maybe I should have used the word "redemption" rather than "withdrawal", but to me the meaning is clear.


I have access to enough shares to get this started.  You're not the first to ask, so I think I will have to post proof.  What sort of proof do you think would suffice?  A message signed by the address holding the shares?

Is the other person managing an asset like this on btc-tc (is the asset live)?  If you would be so kind as to ask them to PM me - I don't see the point in duplicating work on the same exchange.  Even if it's on another exchange it would be good to compare notes.

As for my reputation - well, this is part of me trying to build some.


Short of pure volunteer work, someone has to pay for the time required and costs of managing an endeavour like this. 

If you know of someone with higher regard that would be interested in joining me as a partner in this venture, I would be most interested to hear from them. 


I agree with those saying that building fractional share purchases into the service would be a cool feature, however I doubt it's an easy thing to implement or manage.  Maybe if this passthrough gets off the ground, and maybe if it's a roaring success, the owners/implementers of btc-tc would change their systems to build these features in.  In the meantime, this is what I'm offering.

Brand new listing, pending on btct.co

ASICMINER-100PT - issued by Rodyland

Rodyland can be contacted via PM on bitcointalk.org
or via email at rodyland.asicminer@gmail.com

This asset is a fractional (1%) pass-through for ASICMINER, the ASIC MINING company, to be listed on BTC-TC (btct.co)

Purpose

    The purpose of the ASICMINER-100PT is to allow people with smaller account balances to purchase an interest in ASICMINER shares without committing large proportions of their funds to the purchase.  This passthrough also provides a practical way for ASICMINER-PT shareholders to reinvest their dividends in ASICMINER shares.

FAQ / TL;DR

Q. Who are you?
A. I'm Rodyland on the bitcointalk.org forums, email rodyland.asicminer@gmail.com.  Been a follower of bitcoin since 2011, and want to do something active, positive and useful for the community.  I have provided my personal contact details to to BTC-TC, so that I may be contacted in case of emergency.

Q. What are the shares?
A. Each ASICMINER-100PT share is equivalent to 1% of an ASICMINER share, held in trust by the issuer, and listed on btc-tc.

Q. How big is the IPO?
A. Minimum of 2500 shares.  If less than that number are sold at IPO, the issuer reserves the right to refund all purchases and cancel the IPO.

Q. What do I get if I buy a share?
A. Each share is entitled to 1% of ASICMINER dividends, after adjustment for management fees (max 5%).

Q. Do you really hold the shares?
A. Pre-IPO: a source of shares has been secured, but are not held by the passthrough.  The issuer is also committing part of his own personal shareholding to the IPO.


Post-IPO: yes, within a week of IPO.  The address holding the shares will be made public.  The private key holding the underlying shares will be shared with a trusted 3rd party so that in the event of disaster, all shares can be distributed to their rightful owners.

Q. Can I transfer my ASICMINER shares in?
A. Yes, and it's free.

Q. Can I transfer my ASICMINER-PT shares in?
A. Yes - details depend on getting burnside (owner of ASICMINER-PT) to transfer the shares out of ASICMINER-PT.  If the issuer holds shares in reserve, a straight swap deal may be available.  There are no fees for transferring shares in to ASICMINER-100PT.

Q. Can I swap my ASICMINER-100PT shares for ASICMINER shares?
A. Yes, for a minimum transfer of the equivalent of 10 ASICMINER shares, for a fee of 0.5 bitcoin.  Smaller transfers are not offered.

Q. Can I swap my ASICMINER-100PT shares for ASICMINER-PT shares?
A. Yes.  If the issuer holds sufficient ASICMINER-PT shares, a straight 100-for-1 swap may be available for a 0.1 bitcoin fee with no minimum transfer size.  Otherwise the requirements and fees are the same as for swapping for ASICMINER shares.

Q. What's the stuff below?
A. Actual Terms and Conditions, which everyone should read before investing.

IPO Terms

    For every 100 ASICMINER-100PT shares made available at IPO (or part thereof), one ASICMINER share will be obtained by the issuer and assigned to an address to be published.
    The private key associated with the underlying ASICMINER shares will be shared with a trusted 3rd party.
    The issuer has access to a number of ASICMINER shares that will be made available to the issuer after the IPO.
    If the transfer to the issuer fails or any part of the IPO is unsuccessful all ASICMINER-100PT shares purchased will be bought back by the issuer at the IPO price unless the issuer is able to secure another source of ASICMINER shares.
    ASICMINER shares will be transferred to issuer to cover the IPO within 7 days of IPO, and the address holding the issuer's ASICMINER shares will be made public when transfer from friedcat is confirmed.
    If the IPO volume does not exceed 2500 shares (the equivalent of 25 ASICMINER shares), the issuer reserves the right to terminate the IPO due to lack of interest.


Post-IPO Terms

    For every 100 ASICMINER-100PT shares on issue (or part thereof), one ASICMINER share will be held on file with Friedcat until such time as ASICMINER is listed on a public exchange.
    Should ASICMINER list on a public exchange, one ASICMINER share will be held on such exchange for every 100 ASICMINER-100PT (or part thereof).
    Each ASICMINER-100PT share is entitled to 1% of the management-fee-adjusted dividend payment of an ASICMINER share.  (That is, for each ASICMINER share, the management fee is deducted from the dividend payment and then 1% of the remaining is allocated to each share.  Per-share dividends will be truncated to 1 satoshi precision).
    A management fee of X% will be levied on each ASICMINER dividend payment where X is determined by the number of ASICMINER shares currently managed by the pass through.  For 50 or less shares (eqivalent of 5000 PT shares), the management fee shall be 5%.  For over 50 shares, the management fee shall be 4%.  For over 100 shares, the management fee shall be 3%.  For over 200 shares the management fee shall be 2%.  For over 500 shares the management fee shall be 1%.
    The management fee will be waived for the first 4 dividend payments of the passthrough.
    Payment of dividends will be made within 2 weeks of their issuance from ASICMINER.
    Dividend payments made more than 72 hours after their issuance from ASICMINER will have no management fee attached.
    Passthrough shares have no voting rights in ASICMINER.
    More pass-through shares can be issued, provided there is sufficient backing.  For example, if there is sufficient demand, the issuer may attempt to secure more ASICMINER shares, with the PT shares to be sold either on-market or off-market.
    If the passthrough ever holds enough shares to be awarded an ASICMINER board seat, any financial benefits obtained thereby (for example, free mining hardware) will be spread equally amongst all shareholders as special dividends, at times determined by the issuer.  Special dividends will be announced with at least 1 week's notice on the ASICMINER-100PT "News" page on the BTC-TC website (and optionally on the ASICMINER-100PT bitcointalk.org thread).

Transfer and Redemption

    The issuer supports transfer of ASICMINER shares into ASICMINER-100PT, and redemption of ASICMINER-100PT shares for ASICMINER shares, under the following conditions.
    Shares of ASICMINER-100PT can be redeemed 100-for-one for ASICMINER shares for a 0.5 BTC fee per transaction.  Any ASICMINER share redemption must be a multiple of 100 ASICMINER-100PT shares, and a minimum redemption amount of 1000 ASICMINER-100PT shares (10 ASICMINER shares) applies.
    ASICMINER shares can be transferred to ASICMINER-100PT, by transferring ASICMINER shares to Rodyland via friedcat.  Each such transaction will incur no charge by ASICMINER-100PT, and each ASICMINER share transferred shall result in 100 ASICMINER-100PT shares being credited your account.
    The above ASICMINER share redemption rules apply to personal ASICMINER share holdings, as registered with friedcat.  If and when ASICMINER shares are listed on an exchange, the issuer envisages that methods of transfer will change, but the underlying principles will not, however no promises can be made at this stage.
    The issuer will endeavour to hold a small number of ASICMINER-PT shares on BTC-TC.  If a shareholder wishes to transfer shares from ASICMINER-100PT to ASICMINER-PT and the issuer holds sufficient shares in ASICMINER-PT, transfer to ASICMINER-PT (100 ASICMINER-100PT for one ASICMINER-PT) will incur a 0.1 BTC fee (per transaction), and minimum transfer size requirements will be waived.  
    If insufficient shares in ASICMINER-PT are held by the issuer, a transfer to ASICMINER-PT will be handled as if it were a personal withdrawal.
    All share redemption and transfer requests must be in writing, and will be processed weekly at 12:00 UTC Fridays and at other times as deemed necessary by the issuer.  

Asset Termination

    Should the issuer of ASICMINER terminate the asset, any funds received through this asset termination will be distributed in full without any fee taken.
    During the IPO process should the issuer become unable to secure ASICMINER shares to fully-back ASICMINER-100PT the asset will be terminated and all ASICMINER-100PT shares will be bought back at the IPO price.
    The issuer reserves the right to close down the asset for any reason with a 30 day warning.  Should this right be exercised, every reasonable attempt will be made to transfer the assets into the direct control of the ASICMINER-100PT shareholders using the met hods described in the Transfer section above (waiving all fees and limits).  Any shareholders the issuer is unable to contact or unable to transfer the shares for within a 90 day window will receive a forced buyout at market prices at the end of 90 days following the closure. Any shareholdings that would result in a fractional ASICMINER share will be subject to forced buyout 90 days from closure.
    Should the issuer of ASICMINER choose to list ASICMINER on the BTC-TC exchange it may be necessary to terminate this asset.  If this is the case the ASICMINER-100PT shares will be automatically redeemed on the exchange for ASICMINER shares.  Holdings that would convert to fractional ASICMINER shares would be subject to forced buyback as per the asset closedown clause above.


Exclusion of Guarantees

    This pass-through makes no guarantees should any issues arise with ASICMINER's issuer. Should ASICMINER issuers requires any fees/process to claim or transfer shares arising from any issue/event, fees will be paid in full in the name of the pass-through holders from future dividends.


Revision history:
2013-05-01, Initial version
2013-05-02, added email contact
2013-02-02, added FAQ
2013-02-05, added escrow holding of PT shares, contact info
2013-02-07, removed escrow (just not feasible)

The wallet contains your private key (amongst other things).  The private key is the key to claiming ownership and being able spend your coins.

The option will be valid for as long as you want.  100 years long enough? 

Just because the bet didn't go the way you think it should have, doesn't mean there is a conspiracy. 

Doesn't mean there isn't either.   

But if you're going to try to argue that your position holds merit, you could at least provide some supporting evidence.  Nothing you've posted here in support of your assertion even comes close to the evidence posted that disproves your position.

If there is no evidence to prove that power-consumption claims were altered or explicitly removed between 2012 and end of March 2013, then the assumption must be that claims made in 2012 were still valid at the end of March 2013.  The presumption is that the bet was made on the most recent information available at the time - and thus far, the most recent information that has been presented here shows that power consumption claims were indeed made.

Thus anyone claiming that there were no or altered power consumption claims at the end of March 2013 must prove that some time after those images were taken, but before the end of March 2013, the power consumption claims were either retracted or altered by BFL.

Seems quite straightforward to me - and I don't have any financial interest whatsoever in the outcome of this bet.

I would think that the burden of proof would be on the one claiming that it had changed, rather than on the one claiming it hadn't.

I fail to see how some one entity having 10%, 15% or even 20% of the hashing power represents a "problem".  Care to explain, or better yet, rather than gumming up this thread, create/link to the thread that explains your viewpoint?

I knew someone else would have "hard" evidence that the power performance figures were advertised.

I agree, advertised does not only mean "on their product page on their web site".  And I don't see how an official post by BFL on their own forums could be called "speculation".

I don't know what consumer law jurisdiction you all live in, but in mine, any representations made verbally by company representatives are binding.  That these representations were captured on these forums makes them indisputable.