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141  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Taproot proposal on: May 15, 2021, 05:02:57 AM
Did Taproot decrease lower the fees?

I think bitcoin now still high fee, if Taproot make fee to low is will better and very great to use often
Just as ETFbitcoin explained, it depends.

You can try to make use of the transaction size or weight tools calculator to calculate legacy, nested segwit, native segwit and taproot transaction fee, you can also make use of the public key per input and signature per input to calculate P2SH multisig transactions. If used correctly, you will be able to know the differences in vbytes of each which will determine how transaction fee can be.

I do not have to tell you how legacy address transaction fee will be almost twice that of native segwit addresses and as native segwit transactions have the lowest fee for now, so I will be comparing native segwit transactions with that of taproot.

If you check the transaction vsizes or vbytes of both native segwit and taproot, they are almost the same, but segwit is slightly lower which can be very insignificant. Which means for transaction that require 1 public key, the transaction fee will be almost the same for both native segwit and taproot transactions.

But taproot make use of schnorr signature to make multisig transactions indistinguishable from transactions that require just only 1 public key (normal bitcoin transactions). Multisig transaction fee is higher than normal single wallet transactions, the higher the number of public key required in a transaction, the higher the transaction fee. If segwit transaction is low, but the more the the public key still required for a transaction, the higher the fee, but the fee will be much lower if compared to legacy addresses, but taproot makes the multisig transactions indistinguishable by making use of key aggregation in which the transaction will look like single payment wallet. Which means, increase in the number of public key needed in a transaction still will require the same amount of transaction fee as that of single payment wallet.

Which means taproot reduces the fee of multisig wallets, and making its transaction indistinguishable from other Bitcoin transactions.

Thank you
yes, I use  legacy address , that make fee feel high
if use segwit addresses send, when sent will get lower fee right?
and in case if use segwit addresses for receive , that will help sender to paid fee lower too or not?


142  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Neural Networks and Secp256k1 on: May 15, 2021, 12:36:17 AM

problem on ML.NET
dataset like a random no pattern

training with 1 million dataset result very low accuracy at 0.0001%
it not works
I will try on keras 5 layer and 256 NN
possible get result same

neural networks may be work only on dataset have pattern, NN can find pattern
but Secp256k1 or elliptic curve like a random
143  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Neural Networks and Secp256k1 on: May 14, 2021, 02:02:05 PM
sample python script create dataset for neural networks

this script just for testing (test on ml.net)
for use need to upgrade and fix

you need to modify to fit as you use

my test on ml.net use binary to 1 and 0 get result better than number (Dec)


test 1
datasetNN1.py
Code:
import random
import time
from bit import Key
import math
 
timestr = time.strftime("%Y%m%d-%H%M%S")
filename = "datasetNN_" + str(timestr) + ".csv"
print(time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d-%H:%M:%S"))
print(filename)

feature = ""

f = open(filename, "w")
j = 1
while j <= 256:
    #print(j)
    feature = feature + "f" + str(j) + ","
    j += 1
header = feature+"Lebel"
#print(header)
f.write(header+"\n")
f.close()


i = 1
while i < 1000:
#while i < 1000000:
    #label_output  = '0'
    label_output  = 'even'
    #print(i)
    seed = random.randrange(2**119,2**120)
    #seed = random.randrange(2**256)
    key = Key.from_int(seed)
    address = key.address
    pubkey = key.public_key.hex()
    x,y = key.public_point
    if y % 2 == 0:
        #label_output = 0  # even
        #label_output = 'even'  # even
        label_output = 1  # even
    else:
        #label_output = 1  # odd
        #label_output = 'odd'  # odd
        label_output = 2  # odd
   
    y2_bin = bin(y)[2:]
    bin2_split = list(y2_bin)

    if len(bin2_split) == 256:
        feature_binary = ""
        for x in range(len(bin2_split)):
            feature_binary = feature_binary + bin2_split[x] + ","

   
        adddataline = feature_binary + str(label_output)
        #print(addline)
        f = open(filename, "a")
        f.write(adddataline+"\n")
        f.close()
        i += 1

   
print(time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d-%H:%M:%S"))



test 2
datasetNN2.py
Code:
import random
import time
from bit import Key
import math
 
timestr = time.strftime("%Y%m%d-%H%M%S")
filename = "datasetNN_" + str(timestr) + ".csv"
print(time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d-%H:%M:%S"))
print(filename)

feature = ""

f = open(filename, "w")
j = 1
#while j <= 256:
while j <= 64:
    #print(j)
    #feature = feature + "f" + str(j) + ","
    feature = feature + "x" + str(j) + ","
    j += 1
header = feature+"Lebel"
#print(header)
f.write(header+"\n")
f.close()


i = 1
while i < 1000:
#while i < 1000000:
    #label_output  = '0'
    label_output  = 'even'
    #print(i)
    seed = random.randrange(2**119,2**120)
    #seed = random.randrange(2**256)
    key = Key.from_int(seed)
    address = key.address
    pubkey = key.public_key.hex()
    x,y = key.public_point

    if y % 2 == 0:
        #label_output = 0  # even
        #label_output = 'even'  # even
        label_output = 1  # even
    else:
        #label_output = 1  # odd
        #label_output = 'odd'  # odd
        label_output = 2  # odd
   
    #y2_bin = bin(y)[2:]
    #bin2_split = list(y2_bin)
    bin2_split = list(pubkey[2:])

    #if len(bin2_split) == 256:
    #if len(pubkey) == 64:
    feature_hex = ""
    for x in range(len(bin2_split)):
        #feature_hex = feature_hex + bin2_split[x] + ","
        hex2_num = int(bin2_split[x], 16)
        feature_hex = feature_hex + str(hex2_num) + ","


    adddataline = feature_hex + str(label_output)
    #print(addline)
    f = open(filename, "a")
    f.write(adddataline+"\n")
    f.close()
    i += 1

   
print(time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d-%H:%M:%S"))

144  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BitCrack - A tool for brute-forcing private keys on: May 14, 2021, 01:44:15 PM
I only have 660 ti and this gives me a speed of 80 raw, 45 both addresses, 25 with tens of millions of addresses loaded. Can I count on anything or wasting my time? I see there are a lot of owners here for 4x3090, etc.

You're probably not going to find an address with a large search range using a single 660Ti or even four GPUs.

What's the ideal speed to find an address, small and large search range?

no idea for now
now speed up to you GPU or use multiple GPU

I still use gtx 1050 low end gpu same

try use function save work for continue work on large range
or split small range and works finish each small job

everything have cost (There is nothing free in the world )
try use GPU on cloud service. for now new GPU and second hand out of stock on market (include some low end GPU 4GB too)
145  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Neural Networks and Secp256k1 on: May 14, 2021, 12:34:11 PM

Simple GUI try use ML.NET Model Builder GPU Support (Preview)

Download Visual Studio 2019 for Windows Community and install ML.NET Model Builder

but ML.NET Model Builder is not Neural Networks (NN use perceptron)

ML.NET Model Builder is use algorithm and try select best algorithm automatic for predict

(real Neural Networks should be use Keras no GUI or AutoKeras still need to coding)

ML.NET Model Builder try apply by use Text classification or Value prediction


146  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Neural Networks and Secp256k1 on: May 14, 2021, 10:50:22 AM

There no know relationship between Y and -Y. Atleast for polynominal. Thats why im trying to use neural network to discover that,

Do you have sample dataset  of Y and result ?
Qhat input? , Qhat output?
147  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Neural Networks and Secp256k1 on: May 14, 2021, 10:44:47 AM

Again, we don't need large sophisticated neural networks, small ones will do. Though at this point you're making more of an empirical test of already used pubkeys since the Y polarity of the entire public key space converges to 50%.

if do small one, neural networks

for who know about neural networks. you can do with you Nvidia CUDA GPU. you know already to do.
but still not yet have sample code on github for try and testing

but for who don't know must about neural networks

try AutoML Tables by google cloud
https://cloud.google.com/automl-tables

just upload dataset to server and training, that easy to use without no coding
 
(other service both Microsoft Azure AutoML and Amazon AWS SageMaker have Automatic neural networks service same)
148  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin puzzle transaction ~32 BTC prize to who solves it on: May 14, 2021, 08:19:20 AM

Telariust / pollard-kangaroo  https://github.com/Telariust/pollard-kangaroo

 

I think this script in better
http://bitchain.pl/100btc/pollard_kangaroo.txt
https://github.com/secoc/Pollard-Rho-kangaroo/blob/master/Pollard_Rho_kangaroo_with_Python2.7_demo.py
I think this script can found key from difference collision


problem this script
https://github.com/Telariust/pollard-kangaroo
is script always to found key from same collision
it can not found other collision point position
script work fast because work from multi thread cpu using
149  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin puzzle transaction ~32 BTC prize to who solves it on: May 14, 2021, 08:01:35 AM

But going over the discussion here I am of the impression that there is much more you need than just a state-of-the-art computer. Is this puzzle to be solved just based on luck or an element of luck or could it be solved based on pure logic?

No, I think no logic can solve this puzzle becuase puzzle is random
so, now for puzzle that have only address no pubkey you can do two way one is scan it all key or do random bruteforce
not yet have other way can do for now
150  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Taproot proposal on: May 14, 2021, 03:31:29 AM
Did Taproot decrease lower the fees?

I think bitcoin now still high fee, if Taproot make fee to low is will better and very great to use often
151  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Neural Networks and Secp256k1 on: May 14, 2021, 01:41:18 AM

We don't need all that powerful hardware, because we're not trying to guess the range of the Y point, we are only trying to guess whether it is positive or negative.

For such an analysis you only need a few hundred thousand public keys and I wouldn't be surprised if you could run such a simulation on a single laptop.


yes, use mathematical is smart way and no need to use powerful hardware
like ECC calculate fast

Did we need to create new algorithm to this this problem? or it is already have it?

use neural networks is require high power of hardware (and high power software too)
152  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Pollard's kangaroo ECDLP solver on: May 14, 2021, 01:31:16 AM
Does this mean that the puzzle transactions are not in the keyspaces that privatekeys.pw shows? but could be anywhere?

https://privatekeys.pw/puzzles/bitcoin-puzzle-tx

Puzzle 64 - Keyspace 8000000000000000...ffffffffffffffff    ?

No, do not pay attention to fxsniper's post.

The puzzles are in the bits/keyspace related to the amount. 

Like you said, #64 (.64 BTC) is in the 64 bit range: 8000000000000000:FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

sorry I use wrong word communication

key is on range puzzle

I mean you need to scan by use kangaroo jump too all area on keyspace but it is too wide
if need to focus on key position (no way to do) it have only random keyspace on keyspace to scan, may be it is wrong way to do this

yep, forget that I said help to not confused
see all puzzle that solve already that tell to know key is on bits/keyspace

153  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Pollard's kangaroo ECDLP solver on: May 14, 2021, 01:17:52 AM

What are you talking about that the best method is to bruteforce?

Do you still not understand how much faster Kangaroo is versus bruteforce/bitcrack??

Kangaroo the best is fast  better than bitcrack and other medthod
now most I use is Kangaroo
but puzzle have pubkey leave only 9 address, and other 78 puzzle no pubkey
when solve all pubkey puzzle out, most puzzle leave no pubkey may be use bitcrack if not have other method can solve

There is no random keyspace; the keyspace is known.
 
I mean random to small keyspace on that keyspace for scan


What you are looking for is some quick way to find #120 with one GTX 1050 card...it doesn't exist. But instead of running tests and trying this and that, start on #120; work on it when you can.
yes, it doesn't exist
no way to calculate reverse, all method still using random method
 
154  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Pollard's kangaroo ECDLP solver on: May 14, 2021, 12:24:29 AM
Is there any way to calculate the probable keyspace range of an address? Looking at the puzzle page the only correlation seems to be the balance. How was the keyspace range determined?

No.
I looking to way can calculate or can focus to keyspace nearly key but not found the way
now you can only random keyspace and hop  to lucky
best method is bruteforce
155  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Neural Networks and Secp256k1 on: May 13, 2021, 12:01:50 PM
How can use neural networks dataset?
do you have more detail ?
how to use classification?
how to deal with large number?

neural networks require to some large search support
it can not do alone one person or small team
I think we can not do it  (you only one alone or you team 2-5 person)

project neural networks risk to fail 100% no body to try it   (who do it fail not tell us to know)
nobody try one may be know result not easy possible

only keras 5 layer and perceptron 256 or 512 can not do this job
it can not normal neural networks to do this job must be very complex neural networks do this

easy you can try maximum layer keras can do

what is dataset to use
input?
output?

input
may be convert to binary and each column is one bit

neural networks not understand character must be convert to digit or only 1 and 0 (one-hot encode data)

problem Y point is 256 bit is very large number not easy to put to dataset
problem most AI. result have answer short is 1 and 0 or limited digit number of possibility

may be need to develop AI. 256 AI. for each  bit
may be need to use maximum neural networks layer
may be require minimum to level same or high more than OpenAI GPT-3

how many AI.? I guest over 256 AI. by one Ai. for one bit coalition
or may be 256*256 = 65,536 AI for do it

how many layer? I guess over 48 layer
may be (sample)
48-layer, 1600-hidden, 25-heads, 1558M parameters
24-layer, 2048-hidden, 16-heads, 1.3B parameters.
32-layer, 2560-hidden, 20-heads, 2.7B parameters.

BERT use 168M parameters
GPT-2 is with 1.5 billion parameters
full-sized GPT-3 has 175 billion parameters

so possible minimum require will be 175 billion parameters as research can do for now

some idea
using deep learning to train
use deep reinforcement learning (must be better than AlphaGo)
use NLP/MLM to translate (modify to special use)
modify BIRT to works
modify GPT-2 to works
use generative deep learning to train one ai generate and one verify

problem may be need to require training over a year

result possible to get very low accurate rate

if can do possible to get only just close up number on range not correct number
I believe some AI. search do some research about blockchain

not easy
project require large fund to support

what research want to do
blockchain is great project freedom without control need tp be upgrade to very stronger

research  need to be do first before some one do it and use at wrong way
I think may be natural networks possible can find found vulnerability need to fix it

layer reference see
https://huggingface.co/transformers/pretrained_models.html

DeepMind A.I. unit lost $649 million (so how many budget to use for this )

other, you need hardware like  Nvidia A100 over 1000 GPU
or NVIDIA DGX A100 x 100 (or NVIDIA DGX POD)
see hardware for training
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaGo

no body create project natural networks like this on GitHub
can not find sample project
try start project one and open to forked to extend update

found other project on this forum post
https://github.com/btc-room101/bitcoin-rnn

156  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Pollard's kangaroo ECDLP solver on: May 12, 2021, 02:19:17 AM

Still don't understand....are you saying that Kangaroo can't solve #120? It can, with enough GPUs or time or both.

If you only have 1 GPU maybe BSGS (CPU) is better for you. Because you can split the range without impact and you will know if key is in split range, 100%
 

I mean if I search one search from my laptop from 2**119-2**120 at year may be not found key puzzle #120 from my laptop

I try BSGS  many time, it eat my RAM 32GB and like it freeze , not work only low end laptop
I will try again may be I config wrong


Quote
Did  kangaroo.exe  use same calculate from python script   tame=wild = key
No, as I have already explained, Td - Wd + Beginning Range = key

Thank you I got it
157  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Pollard's kangaroo ECDLP solver on: May 11, 2021, 10:41:28 AM

on kangaroo.exe code  Kangaroo.cpp

puzzle #115

bool Kangaroo::CollisionCheck         

Td.Set(d1);
Wd.Set(d2);

Td: 1375401ECDB
Wd: 375401ECDB

and

bool Kangaroo::AddToTable
int addStatus = hashTable.Add(pos, dist, kType);

AddToTable 
pos hex:  B50F41E6EC1FA3D11BB4B3D39D7B3617BB8A4E20FACA58174DC2DFFF909429
dist hex: 1375401ECDB

AddToTable
pos hex:  B50F41E6EC1FA3D11BB4B3D39D7B3617BB8A4E20FACA58174DC2DFFF909429
dist hex: 375401ECDB


I looing for private key variable
Where is private use generate?
I just looing to how kangaroo.exe calculate private key
Did  kangaroo.exe  use same calculate from python script   tame=wild = key
158  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Pollard's kangaroo ECDLP solver on: May 11, 2021, 10:27:28 AM
(news) IRS Hiring Hackers Who Can Crack Bitcoin Wallets
~

I believe they are looking for people who can exploit vulnerabilities in hardware wallets, not general-purpose private key crackers.

However, the consensus among security researchers appears to be that hardware wallets have very few vulnerabilities to successfully hack them, which means that the IRS's effort will likely ultimately end up being futile.

yes, correct on detail there want to crack hardware wallet (not privatekey)
159  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Pollard's kangaroo ECDLP solver on: May 11, 2021, 08:51:38 AM

hahahahhahaha  Grin

Guys, I do not know who hskun and fxsniper are, if they are this same person in real or not, but please... stop posting so stupid things. Stop dreaming that you will suddenly have an IDEA and break ECDSA. You have no idea about Bitcoin and you have no idea about math behind it. Please, stop compromise yourself and waste internet for your imaginations.
I do not know... maybe go to back to school or find a legal job. I understand you would like to get free easy money, buy you have no skills, no knowledge. Wrong way

Sorry I am not same person with hskun,

Don't judge people is better. (open freedom no judge)

Really, I know it can not break bitcoin. it can not possible to crack very large number. (right can not break ECDSA.)

just try challenge with puzzle not real bitcoin 256bit

I don't think is free, every thing have cost

if not do challenge is bored, challenge  puzzle help to spend time
record puzzle #115 on wikipedia  that record for destroy records to new one better

if no one try to crack bitcoin, it worst , it make bitcoin stop to continue develop, upgrade to more secure
(try crack to make it better)

I think just like research Vulnerability (Bug Bounty Programs) for fun
(Ten-year-old receives reward for finding Instagram bug)

comment like this make challenge people, make more people do it
good way to stop is support to do until leave themselves (give up)  (you know already it is never happen and it is can not possible)

talk about it make activity

I may be give up in future (sure, possible) but not for this time (however I have limited time)

(news) IRS Hiring Hackers Who Can Crack Bitcoin Wallets , I just want to apply this job (legal job)
Sorry just kidding

Think positive please.
160  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Pollard's kangaroo ECDLP solver on: May 11, 2021, 07:58:07 AM

None of what you said makes sense....if you could run one 2^60 keyspace range in 1 second, how many days would it take to run 2^60 ranges??
Random = starting point for each tame and wild then they jump uniformly.
You should really stop comparing the two programs, they are different.

I just think if still run kangaroo all keyspace 2**120 still can not solve his puzzle
I not have power with Tesla V100 or any GTX 30xx
I just got new GPU GTX 1080 (not ti) for working graphics 3D render
just looing for strategy for small card can do. and can run on some free time
if method notworking I change to other method can possible
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