Ross William Ulbricht, legendary creator of the original darknet market The Silk Road, has been sentenced today in federal prison to Life in Prison. Ulbricht became a hero to many in the darknet community, as well as the broader Bitcoin and libertarian movements, after his arrest in November 2013 revealed him to be the ‘Dread Pirate Roberts’, the pseudonymous creator and operator of the Silk Road. His arrest came after a months long investigation by multiple law enforcement departments in the United States. https://darknetmarkets.org/news/silk-road-founder-ross-ulbricht-sentenced/I had no doubt this would be the sentence. He played with fire and in the end, got burned. The end. |
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The best article yet on bitcoin specific cooling.
Thanks especially for addressing the evaporative cooling aspect as I think many people do not understand that this method of cooling is deadly once outside humidity approaches 80% (It doesn't work)
A very well thought out and informative thread.
Cheers! I wish you wrote this earlier
At 80% humidity, I would say evaporative cooling is 99% useless (unless you are using the fans in the cooler as simply extra fans to move air). To do much of anything the humidity needs to be about 30% (or ideally 15%). Just look at a psychometric chart and you can see exactly at what temp and humidity you can get down to. However, this is with an 100% effective cooler which isn't going to happen, so take about 75% of the distance to the wet bulb. The great thing about evaporative cooling (and no one talks about) is that the warmer it gets, the lower the humidity will be, and therefore the better the evaporative cooler works. For every 1 degree rise outside I only get something like a 0.2 degree rise inside. Overall, temp changes every day are probably the biggest killer of equipment (long term) and evaporative coolers really average out the day and night temps to 1 pretty constant temp all of the time. I have about 40 degree differences between day and night temps (during the summer) and with evaporative coolers it makes it only about a 8 ~ 10 degree change. You could do some type of compression cooling to get that last 8 ~ 10 degree change down to 0 change, but it isn't necessary. The temperature changes have an exponential nature, so 8 ~ 10 degree changes are about 1000th the amount of damage of 40 degree changes. Thank you for the input and yes the higher temperatures mean higher efficiency. The problem is that people try and only use that is hot climates and then you are betting that you wont have any hot overcast days that will raise the humidity. This happened at another hosting provider over the summer and it was pretty bad. That is why I accept less profits and invest in DX cooling to make sure I can run 24/7/365. Fans and Evap can only do so much in a desert. |
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New web interface sucks. There is one thing I check 9/10 times: Total hashrate. It's nowhere to be found.
And the ads... In Chinese... Idiots...
Is there anyone from AntPool that reads these, someone needs to get on this. Don't alienate your clients with poor design. Appreciate it. I honestly don't know if they check this forum to often. Not sure best way to submit a idea to them maybe one of bitmains emails? But it's rediclous to try to read add's in Chinese. Please give us English like before I could read everything in Engish. I sent one early this morning as well. Everyone please email them so they know people noticed that major features were taken away. |
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New web interface sucks. There is one thing I check 9/10 times: Total hashrate. It's nowhere to be found.
And the ads... In Chinese... Idiots...
Is there anyone from AntPool that reads these, someone needs to get on this. Don't alienate your clients with poor design. Appreciate it. |
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The best article yet on bitcoin specific cooling.
Thanks especially for addressing the evaporative cooling aspect as I think many people do not understand that this method of cooling is deadly once outside humidity approaches 80% (It doesn't work)
A very well thought out and informative thread.
Cheers! I wish you wrote this earlier
Thank you for the kind words. Yes I agree, I wish I would of wrote this earlier to help people out. Do you have a suggestion for what you would like me to write about? |
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Its bound to happen but the odds are astronomical so it is better to just move on. Pooling is done because only a certain amount of blocks are mined daily and people need to pay their bills. At a point of you aren't pooling or have a massive farm, it is just gambling.
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BRING BACK THE OLD DESIGN.
Issues:
No ability to see overall hashrate of 10m, 30m, 1hr and 1d.
Can sort miners by hashrate
I don't speak Chinese so unless I choose that language option, they should be in English.
I don't know who approved these changes but it is a big step backwards. I would bring back the old design asap and address these concerns and review all changes while asking yourself "Is this better for the end-user or not", if the answer is no then DONT DO IT. Really guys, stop it.
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Maybe, This Picture PC  Water Cooled Version Can be, Mining Hardware. But the number of the device and Coolant could cost Closed-loop liquid cooling is the way to go and the price is really coming down. Many mining units have used these already. We have a number of them laying around from an old farm. |
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Wow wee. Now that is a miner, they really came correct on this piece of hardware. Can't wait for our first customer with one of these, I want to do a review on one in-person.
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What happened to this place?
I would also like to know. From reading other threads it looks like customers miners are going offline and they are not responding to their emails or posting on here but their website is still up. Are these people still in business? They may still be but over time the market will filter them out. I just find it odd they went silent. Seems like they spent a lot to just stop and give up. (unless they happen to found a whale and selling space to big buyers). They had some problems it sounded like. But I would think they would still be fighting for business. Just odd to see them go silent and not talk about it. I believe you may be correct about having a single large client. I will reach out to them and see if they have any updates. I want to see more viable hosting businesses not less, if more keep going out of business then I will have a ton of demand and will have to be more selective. |
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What happened to this place?
I would also like to know. From reading other threads it looks like customers miners are going offline and they are not responding to their emails or posting on here but their website is still up. Are these people still in business? They may still be but over time the market will filter them out. |
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Is this an expansion of the hosting service recently launched by allinvain? I see it is located in iceland not canada but the name sounded similar. I am not sure though why anyone would take pride in making a cheap quality miner host. If I was going to place an order for tens of thousands of dollars worth of mining equipment I would want it hosted in a place that is high quality not one proudly made of plywood and called "a shoestring facility". Did they also do the electrical work cheaply? Did nobody learn the lesson from last year when that mine in thailand burnt down with millions of dollars in miners damaged?
So they can pass the savings to you. I rather pay $50 per kwh in an ugly but functional/ safe place then to pay $90 per kwh in a glamorous building with TV/cable, lake front, etc. Your miners doesn't care as long as it is cool and have enough juice. Or you can spend $60/Kw with us and get the value and quality infrastructure  |
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What a great way to do a startup. Heck, you could franchise the things... buy your own turnkey bitcoin mining operation. Capital expenses are relatively cheap (converting some old buildings - in the case of the article an automotive repair shop). 1.2MW... that's a decent amount of hardware you can power with that... think 1000 S7s - nearly 5PH/s.
It isn't cheap no matter what. Electrical gear and having it permitted and installed to code so you don't burn down the building is also a significant cost. What I would say is compared to other options for 1.2MW which would normally cost between $2-4 million, you could get away with this method up to code for around $750-900K minimum. |
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Spoondoolies is done. so don't worry about them adding hashrate. KNC has a ton of overhead and isn't as competitive anymore. They produced solar on 16nm fin 2 process, but at a huge costs for tapeout and being an early adapter. Sure they are private and have huge efficiency but take a look at how small there total hashrate is... Its tiny. 4% of the network for KNC... We have more than that and our company is a fraction of the capital investments. I would agree we're at about .05 cents all in including cooling and overhead. Lets face it, if your in the bitcoin mining world, bitmain sort of crushed the competition. The logistics and capabilities that company have far exceed any capabilities KNC, and Bitfury have of keeping up... Spoondoolies is gone, and everything else is gone.
I don't think even with a huge price jump that you would be extremely profitable. Your best way as a home miner to make money is, buy direct from Bitmain, mine for 2 months at high profits, then sell the miner for 90% of cost, and make money by reselling. That's about your best bet.
I don't know why I said, "KnC." I meant to say, "Bitfury." I had a brain fart. lol Shhhhhh about the selling after a couple of months.  I will have my trigger finger ready on selling mine rather quickly like I did all of my other rigs if the difficulty gets outrageous while BTC price remains low. I suppose it's still a slim chance I could be moving to Washington State. If I do, it may be in December or January. I'm just kind of straddling the fence at the moment about Washington State. It is quite a gamble. I may end up increasing my power at the house to 400 or 500 amps and stay here instead of moving to Washington State. Just hard to say at the moment. I have many options to consider. I really like the sound of the E-Cig stores as well while mining. I was hoping to see someone move westward and document it. But I can understand why it would be hard to do. It is hard justify it when you look at all the costs. But I still hope someone does it and documents it all. What do you want to know? I went westward almost 3 years ago and we are still growing. I was wanting to know price of some things. Like are you doing it in your house? Warehouse? What was start up costs? Current electricity rate? Those to begin with. I just want to see ROI math with going there with miners. Warehouse that we have a long-term lease on. We have done hundreds of thousands in improvements. I would say expect a minimum 150-250K start-up to do your build-out. Electrical and Cooling are your largest single expenses. People cut corners here so I assume someone will say that is too much. But those people also are not planning for the future, summer time and usually will put customers equipment at risk for thermal damage. We are building a data-center and is good for more that just Bitcoin mining. 0.023 per Kw/h. |
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No one responsible will recommend you do that, if you start a fire then it weigh on their conscious if you were hurt. Just get a proper circuit installed. |
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You could try mounting R-Tec insulation panels on the sides of the rack. That may dampen the sound a bit. Also you could see what fans are in the unit and swap them out for quieter high RPM fans.
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Spoondoolies is done. so don't worry about them adding hashrate. KNC has a ton of overhead and isn't as competitive anymore. They produced solar on 16nm fin 2 process, but at a huge costs for tapeout and being an early adapter. Sure they are private and have huge efficiency but take a look at how small there total hashrate is... Its tiny. 4% of the network for KNC... We have more than that and our company is a fraction of the capital investments. I would agree we're at about .05 cents all in including cooling and overhead. Lets face it, if your in the bitcoin mining world, bitmain sort of crushed the competition. The logistics and capabilities that company have far exceed any capabilities KNC, and Bitfury have of keeping up... Spoondoolies is gone, and everything else is gone.
I don't think even with a huge price jump that you would be extremely profitable. Your best way as a home miner to make money is, buy direct from Bitmain, mine for 2 months at high profits, then sell the miner for 90% of cost, and make money by reselling. That's about your best bet.
I don't know why I said, "KnC." I meant to say, "Bitfury." I had a brain fart. lol Shhhhhh about the selling after a couple of months. I will have my trigger finger ready on selling mine rather quickly like I did all of my other rigs if the difficulty gets outrageous while BTC price remains low. I suppose it's still a slim chance I could be moving to Washington State. If I do, it may be in December or January. I'm just kind of straddling the fence at the moment about Washington State. It is quite a gamble. I may end up increasing my power at the house to 400 or 500 amps and stay here instead of moving to Washington State. Just hard to say at the moment. I have many options to consider. I really like the sound of the E-Cig stores as well while mining. I was hoping to see someone move westward and document it. But I can understand why it would be hard to do. It is hard justify it when you look at all the costs. But I still hope someone does it and documents it all. What do you want to know? I went westward almost 3 years ago and we are still growing. |
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Interested. I even picked up a tip via the pictures to improve our facility. Good read.
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Folks.... Using conventional A/C is right out unless you have free power.
The math:
BTU/hr=Watts x 3.4129
1 Tonne=12,000 BTU/hr
So if your power load is 1kw you are pumping out 3412.9 BTU. That is just to balance out the heat from the miners! Throw in bringing the temps to below outside air temp and it gets worse... For most farms your are talking insane amount of cooling needed.
Plug in your own load for the amount of cooling you need just to break even on the miners heat output.
This is correct, for every Megawatt of power consumption you are looking at about 285 tons of cooling to offset the heat generated. or 28.5 tons for every 100 Kilowatts. Not only do you need that much cooling, but you will need serious air movement to get that cool to where it needs to be and the hot away from where it shouldn't be. This is why we install lots of actual HVAC and not rely on fans, also when you are talking about these massive loads, you can't cut corners here or you will damage miners, make them run slow or create a fire hazard. |
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