As far as I was aware, Ireland suffered from easy lending and being a gateway to the EU for US companies. This meant that it got a lot of infrastructure funding, which then ballooned the property prices, and this funded extravagant lifestyles.

The difference with Ireland, is that people knew it was happening, and just rode the boat, knowing it would come to an end eventually.
Other countries, such as the UK thought it was mostly down to what their governments were doing, and didn't see it was just an easy credit boom until it was much later!

Ireland is bust in the traditional sense, however, unlike previous recessions, this time, all the financial institutions know that if they don't start scrambling for debt recovery, then we won't get serious poverty.  They all know that if we were to add up all our holdings, we would not get anywhere near our debts, so why not play the long game?

This time, Europe is going through stagflation for a decade - don't expect any real growth until 2020 and even then its only going to happen if we find a new industry to invest in - maybe like bitcoin etc.

Until then, expect the EU to flex its muscles every few months - while ignoring that its own accounts haven't passed auditing in almost 20 years - pot kettle black etc!

Thanks for the interesting feedback.

So, going forward, if I am not interested in just the brand new untested coins, mining isn't for me?

My trading over the past few months has been about buying and selling bitcoins and adding a little margin - which, even at only a few % margin seems to bring in more money that mining is going to do.

It also seems to me that the hardware investment is also a never ending - making me even more unsure of the total return on investment!

The only thing that really worries me is that its getting far harder to buy coins for fiat, but that is really another subject for another thread!

Being a netbook user, I never contemplated mining as a way to get bitcoins and altcoins, but now I am!

However, I can't work out if its not cheaper to trade coins rather than buy the hardware to do the mining.

For instance, a decent graphic card and the motherboard hardware is going to cost a good £500.  That is around 200 Litecoins, but its going to take a year to mine that many coins with that sort of hardware.

I can't see how it isn't cheaper to just buy the coins and trade them over a year to make more money than mining!

Am I missing something here?

It is funny that for months people have said, what Bitcoin needs is stability, and now it has it, people wonder what's wrong!

The only way to make money in the long term with bitcoin is buying and selling the coin vs fiat.  Trying to speculate on its value rising and falling is not a good long term aim!

We need people to buy and sell stuff, using bitcoins, and now is the ideal opportunity to do so!

Who wants to start the Bitcoin Amazon or the Altcoin eBay?  If you don't, someone else will!

In 8 years, bitcoin will have evolved into something totally different!

Bitcoin will be work about $100 as a collector item - but the blockchain will be being used by Visa in the core of their digital visa credit card - a way for anyone and everyone to move money around the internet in a method almost identical to bitcoin - except, you will need to use their wallets, and need to register to have a wallet that their coins will work with.

It might not be Visa, but in 8 years, the concept of bitcoin will have become accepted within the banking industry as workable, and being offered to the public - at a price!

However, your bitcoins and altcoins will be practically worthless!

Anyone with a brain can tell the difference between yet another altcoin and a decent altcoin.

While its possible to advise that the value of all coins is going to get effected, there is very little that can be done, except let people find out the hard way, as well as make sure you are not involved in it.

I think we are going through a very difficult time in we have a market that is getting bored with the stability and wants something to gamble with.

Its just like every get rich scheme, its its too good to be true, its too good to be true!

Yeah!  Old people!

What do they know about the internet?

They only invented it!

was this ever fixed?

Was hoping to transfer my okpay dollars to btc-e, but can't!

This is a good idea, but I have a nagging issue!

What about all the other search engines?

Google is a monopoly in the legal sense, but Bing, Yahoo, Baidu and the rest all bring their own percentages too.

There is also the tweet stats and other social media

Is this a best attempt, or is there actually a way to spot if a coin is growing in interest in a particular part of the world, under the all seeing Google radar?

BTW - I think Google is even more Evil than Bert!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_is_Evil

I'm throwing my hat into the ring as someone who can make things happen!


I currently manage a few Linkedin groups, and have been involved with business networking events, so I know how to get people talking.

I have server space, but I would prefer not to offer that at the moment.

I am also very aware of the Altcoin universe, having trading a fair few of them over the last few months.

I am also UK based, giving the ability to work different hours to US based members

You can give me my hat back if you want!

Do you know what would happen?  Government spending would go through the roof!

The only thing limiting at the moment is that slight guilt when taxes go up too much to be acceptable - the moment that weight is off the bean counters shoulders - they is going to party!


They would tell everyone that the money was going to last for 30 years, but I bet it will all be gone within 5!

I love that feature - its ID theft proof!   Its nice and easy to understand and its a huge benefit!

I guess the other advantage is that there are no restrictions on on who can send money to whom.  Thinking wholesomely, its a great way for the poor of the world to get digital inclusion, without having to worry about credit worthiness and being approved by the bank.

A lot of the political advantages are based on opinion and could be seen to be just another form of tax avoidance!

Its really uplifting to read so much positivity in one place!

Thought it was time we had a frank discussion about what Bitcoin and the altcoins, are good for!

If we want bitcoin to grow and find a mainstream use, it needs to be highlighted as being better for something than any other way of doing it.

For instance, if I want to buy something on line, I can use bitcoin, or paypal or even a credit card over email, but each method has its own strengths and weaknesses. What we need is a list of services that bitcoin can do, where its strengths outweigh the strengths of other methods in doing the same thing.

The problem so far is that the only thing that bitcoin is fantastic for is to buy and sell outside society!

You can buy drugs and other illegal services and you are not going to get traced.

We need some other services in here where bitcoin not only shines, but the service is wholesome and a benefit to society!

The only thing I can think of is to fund an on-line business in Central Africa!

What do you think?

Its quite easy to do this, but it requires some big picture thinking.

Forget all about the technical elements of bitcoin, and lets work with the end result.

People use new stuff because its either a legal requirement, or its easier than the old way.  Sometimes its because it makes their ego feel good, but generally, its to give them something they couldn't do before.

Why would you want to use bitcoin rather than Paypal?

The only reason I can think of is because its cheaper.

Here is a possible dialogue which demonstrates why we have a long way to go! We need a far better reason to use bitcoins!


Muggle: So, how would you do bitcoin rather than Paypal?

Geek: Ok, visit Localbitcoins, and buy $100 worth of bitcoins from some stranger, by giving him your bank account details.

Muggle: I can't get ripped off if I do this, can I?

Geek: You'll probably get around 0.95 worth of bitcoins.

Muggle: Doesn't sound like much for $100!

Geek: Now visit a website that sells stuff for bitcoins, and buy something you want - like a graphic card, or some porn, of maybe some drugs. Sorry, you can't buy nice clothes yet, because bitcoin people wear black t shirts exclusively!

Geek: Type in the address of where you want to send your bitcoins, making sure to match the amount they want with the amount you want to send, but add a little extra 0.01 to cover mining costs (don't ask!)

Geek: Now give the people your name and address so that they can send you the stuff.

Geek: 3 days later, you might get your stuff!

Muggle: its far easier with Paypal - they have all my details, go to the bank for me and even give me credit and ensure that I'm not defrauded!

Geek: But Bitcoin is cheaper and sticks it to the man!

Muggle: But they have my name and address when I tell them where to ship it to, how is that anonymous?

Geek: Bitcoins rule!


Can anyone else see the problem here?

Anything that gets regulated, belongs to the regulator.  Plain fact.

Bitcoin as a concept is free, however, any part of it, such as clearing the fiat to buy or sell bitcoins is a part of the regulators world, and so access to bitcoins is controlled.

The answer here is to build infrastructure to keep the regulator as far from bitcoin as possible.

However, to just give up, is pointless.  And that was how I read the OP statement - a white flag!

That is the funniest advert I've read in ages!

Don't call us, we'll call you!

I guess the legal issue revolve around the responsibility of ownership as suggested in some of the early US Gov papers a few weeks ago?

Maybe its time to forget calling it a currency, and start calling it a voucher?  Something with no real value, except to use in exchange for goods from other members of the club?

I know that sounds clumsy, but if the worry is how governments are going to deal with altcoins, this could be a good opportunity to revisit the whole definition of what crypto currency is about, and try and take the heat off the whole community?

This is where the removal of the term x coin is a good thing, and lets call it something like a universal voucher?

If we stop pretending that this is the start of a war against the dollar, and really just a way to buy pizza without using Paypal, we might get some more mainstream support?

just my 0.002 BTC!

some of these threads could be used as plot ideas for the Big Bang Theory!

I totally agree with the OP - We need some serious simplicity before bitcoin takes off.

I'm sure that there are people here who remember how difficult it was to get on line with a Windows 3.1 PC.

This is what bitcoin is like for most people today!

It also gives a good idea of how much work needs to be done!

As for the fraud question - that is part of the challenge!

Sell you coins on localbitcoins - someone will give you cash for them in your local currency - without anyone taking a slice!