I don't, and "certainly imperfect" is an understatement. Background checks can, and have been used to delay and deny sane, law-abiding adults their right to self-defense. Waiting periods, investigation periods, "system crashes", putting common NAMES on the terror watchlist, putting peaceful dissidents on the terror watchlist, the intrinsic registration of all law-abiding gun owners for future confiscation and history-repeating genocide (do you believe for one second that the system operates purely on RAM and cannot save anything anywhere?)
Background checks are prior restraint, and unconscionable. Criminals do not a) have to wait b) get background checks (and even if they do choose to play the background checked market, somehow, a not-insignificant amount "slip through the cracks" and pass the checks and commit violent crime, so much that it gives "gun control" criminals "justification" for the prohibition of all legal gun ownership.)
Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
One state that I know of is required to produce an audit report on the number of errors in the database they submit to the fed for NCIS. The law they wrote to comply with the Brady bill back in the clinton years requires that audit. The minimum acceptable quality level is 95% (5% errors). So I looked one of the audit reports up. Just for fun. The error rate was 70%. Basically, lots of DAs arrest people, charge them, then drop the cases for various reasons. But they don't get around to backing out the felony charges. That means in effect these guys walk around and both a background check to a commercial database, or check via an aggregating database such as NCIS, will say they have felony charges. Note that this does not mean that 70% of those from that state will be denied when they apply through NCIS but that of those who have a refusal for gun purchases from that state, 70% will be in error. Now how about that? |
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Look...be reasonable... You're a fox. Won't you do a great job of guarding the henhouse? Now what could go wrong with that? |
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My guess is that there is too much fear and too much greed. I strongly believe there are very few psychos who enjoy hurting people, and that the vast majority of crimes in this world are commited because of fear and greed - those are our two biggest problems IMO. Some turn to god to control the fear and greed in them, but as an atheist I never understood why. I personally don't need to believe in god to be good to the people around me, or to know that being forgiving, generous and compassionate makes me happier than living in anger.
Believing in god doesn't mean you are godly, and conversely, not believing in god doesn't mean you are not godly. But I'm a bit off topic here.M Granted, but that was a fairly astute observation. But the 'why' of people being one way or another does not really matter to those who must guard against threats, does it? It is what it is... Be that as it may I think most people are capable of assessing levels of danger of armed robbery, assault, murder and rape in the areas they live in, and I think they are capable of getting protection against what threats they perceive as realistic. I trust most people to do a decent - admittedly imperfect - job of things like this. I do not trust government agencies do to such a job for them. I do trust government agencies to do an acceptable - certainly imperfect - job of things like background checks for firearms. |
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..... I'll repeat. A godless society leads to moral decay. That leads to societal breakdown. It will lead to the end of the world as we know it if we don't turn back to God. (No, I'm not talking religion. There is plenty of religion to go around, and you see how far it's got the world.)
There IS something seriously wrong with this world. Not just the US, but the whole world. What do you think it is? I've thought about this a lot, and the only answer I've found is a lack of God.
M
I remember reading a sociology book on slums some years ago. Described slums as they were around the world, now and in the past. Went back thousands of years. Talked about how they had to exist, how some fraction of humanity was always going downhill just as others were going uphill. So at least a part of what you refer to as 'moral decay' is a constant for humanity. |
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...
Both are tools, both require proper training to use, and both can be abused. There's nothing inherently evil about my truck OR my gun.
...
I have on several occasions in this thread descended into a level of sarcasm that is unwarranted, in talking with others who have the opposite position on these issues. So here is an alternative method. I didn't intend to come across as sarcastic. I don't think sarcasm is good either. I was simply trying to make a point. One world expert in this is Masaad Ayoob. Hundreds of articles on gun safety and use in the worse situation, many youtube videos.
I love his articles.  M I suggest anti-gun folks here review some of Ayoob's Youtube videos, and learn a bit. And note the linked video is one which has equally valid suggestions whether the homeowner has a gun or no weapon. |
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Both are tools, both require proper training to use, and both can be abused. There's nothing inherently evil about my truck OR my gun.
...
I have on several occasions in this thread descended into a level of sarcasm that is unwarranted, in talking with others who have the opposite position on these issues. So here is an alternative method. It's called the learning process. One world expert in this is Masaad Ayoob. Hundreds of articles on gun safety and use in the worse situation, many youtube videos. Example - what the couple in Clockwork Orange SHOULD HAVE DONE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD3zIA6vJkQ |
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.....
There are monsters in the world, two legged and four. Your referenced YouTube video shows that. If you choose to believe otherwise, and live believing that you are perfectly safe and that police are only "minutes away", be my guest. I hope you never regret your decision. I however, will not relinquish that right. It is my job to protect my family and children, because I'm the most likely one able to do so. Will I ever need to do so? I hope to God in heaven not. But if the day comes that I do, I have the ability to do so.
There are millions like me. And we will stand up when misinformed individuals such as yourself try to remove that right.
M
EDIT: I'd like to add that, as others have stated here multiple times, the chances of me needing to employ lethal force decreases significantly when said goons suspect that I am my family are armed, and know how to use it.
And that point needs a bit more said. The very plot of Clockwork Orange could not exist if there was a possibility - only a possibility - that the Drogues would encounter armed citizens. Firearms make the little old granny, or a 100 pound woman, the superior to a gang of punks. That's a good situation, not a bad one. So Clockwork was cast in a Gun Control Country. Not in the USA. |
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....Everybody here owns a gun, most people here carry since it's legal to open carry and a concealed carry license is pretty easy to get (self-defense is considered a legitimate reason for a license by the local Sheriff's department). Even with nearly everyone carrying guns, either openly or concealed, shootings are rare. In the 5 years I've lived here, two people have been shot, one was an accident and the other was a legitimate case of self-defense. There are far more stabbings than shootings. There are also legitimate reasons to own and carry a gun even in the absence of gun violence, there are wild animals here that can and will kill an unarmed person, I've personally fired my gun twice in self-defense against wild animals (a rattlesnake and a mountain lion).....
I've had a few animal encounters too. One was with a fucking shovel against a rabid thing that was in attack mode. That consisted of my bashing the head in. And if I'd even been able to get away, it would likely have gone after someone else, maybe a kid. It was dangerous, and totally sickening and gross. That caused me to go get a 22 rifle and subsonic hollow point for it. Yeah, there was a background check but no real difficult hoops to jump through. Some of these people posting who know it all, they just need to shut up sometimes. |
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.....I honestly do not believe there are "bad" and "good" guys. The best people in the world do stupid things at times. The point is that the less violent is a society, the better for everybody - and the US is a very violent society. I acknowledge there are some areas where you NEED a gun, but that is sick and should be addressed ASAP.
SO.... you haven't had any little encounters with the 'bad guys', have you? LOL... What's ironic is right above that he said this: Why? Well, as ALL citizens are unarmed, criminals are just less violent, especially with normal citizens. They do not fear for their life when they steal your call/break into your house
If criminals are not "bad guys", then therefore these said criminals are okay in his book. M LOL yeah......no bad guys.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWvWyYz9ttkYou know, as an example take the poor victims in this Kubrick movie. They might have lived in a place where guns were not allowed. Or they might have had some internal morality that told them guns were bad. I really, really don't care. Ain't happening to me or those in my care. Meanwhile poseurs lecture ponderously about how WE SHOULD BEHAVE and how GUNS ARE BAD and how WE SHOULD GET WITH THE PROGRAM. So...does it pay well, to project such on the Internet? Just curious.... |
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.....I honestly do not believe there are "bad" and "good" guys. The best people in the world do stupid things at times. The point is that the less violent is a society, the better for everybody - and the US is a very violent society. I acknowledge there are some areas where you NEED a gun, but that is sick and should be addressed ASAP.
SO.... you haven't had any little encounters with the 'bad guys', have you? LOL... |
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I can sort of see how you might consider a gun an encumbrance.
Carrying a gun is a huge pain in my ass, not to mention a heavy responsibility. So far, as far as I know, it has been a pointless exercise. Hopefully that never changes. That said, I will continue to carry a gun every day for the rest of my life. Definitely not a bad idea in Alaska. |
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... Finally - Gonna answer you two ways.
A. Bring a gun to a knife fight? Hell yes!
B. No one who has actually had to pull them triggers has much interest in talking about it. Particularly with people that knows it all.
A. What? How it's even an answer or at least relevant? B. While that may be one of the smartest lines in this thread, I would like to correct your "No one" to "Most people" and "For a certain amount of time since the incident", if I may. B. No, you may not. Let's look at my statement and in particular the part which is bolded. No one who has actually had to pull them triggers has much interest in talking about it. Particularly with people that knows it all. |
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Call from Riseup:
It is a mistake to frame the recent US and European massive surveillance revelations in terms of the privacy of individuals. What is at stake is not privacy at all, but the power of the state over its citizenry.
What surveillance really is, at its root, is a highly effective form of social control. The knowledge of always being watched changes our behavior and stifles dissent. ....
If that were true, and I am not largely in agreement with you, then Snowden is the cause of such social control, not the agencies which worked in secret, as he evoked the knowledge of always being watched which changed our behavior and stifled our descent.... |
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And what if you suddenly go bonkers? Stress, infidelity of your wife, even in the heat of argument. Maybe you want to scare someone off, and it goes too far. Itchy fingers? Carrying it with you day in and day out, it grows on you, and you will want to blow some steam eventually. Having that power. Power which eventually corrupts. I for sure would not want to be around that day.
Those who own guns, own a huge pride baggage that comes with it. Yoi just cannot let it sit quietly in your locker/holster. You will need to take it out for occasion, to show it to your friends, or clean it a bit too often, just to look at it, or to feel it. And in some countries it is completely ok.
Apparently you are incapable of having an argument where you don't project your own attributes onto others. I've already told you to not to do that. How can I project a feeling which I do not possess? Those are merely insinuations of yours. I do not own a gun and never did. I have some experience, and some negative experience also. As a kid I made a shot in heavily populated area, which could cost someone's life. Also had a loaded and cocked gun pointed at me, which is not a nice feeling. Hell, even empty gun, or a prop gun gives that feeling. I have a bow, crafted by myself, which may seem similar to having a gun, but I do not show it off to anyone, and would never give it to anyone, even to hold. I shoot very rarely, as there's no suitable areas around, and cause arrows are a pain to make. I love my bow, but from mere woodcrafting perspective, to be able to make something good, by my own hands. If I had a gun, I would probably be as "withdrawn and calm about it" as you are trying to seem here. Have you EVER had the NEED to take your gun out, or use it? I guess no. Also everyone talks about self-defense here. Imagine a situation, where some sort of brawl/robbery is happening and one of the subjects has a knife in his hand, wiling to use it on another subject. Would you whip out your gun, and when attacker refuses to comply with your verbal warning, shoot him (aiming for the leg, hand, torso, whatever)? Gonna answer you two ways. A. Bring a gun to a knife fight? Hell yes! B. No one who has actually had to pull them triggers has much interest in talking about it. Particularly with people that knows it all. |
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It's a funny idea if does well what it is supposed to do, and suggests multiple interesting sources for a topic you might be interested in.
THIS IS IMPORTANT FIX. You run it and follow it's suggestions and THEY leave you alone. Cuz you good little puppy. |
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.....
Wait, you folks serious belief the government sanctioned lie that 9/11 was caused by a bunch of terrorists who couldn't fly planes? And the indestructible black boxes didn't survive, yet one of their passports did? And jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel, yet somehow it did? And WTC7 (I think that's the one, it's been a while) came down without a plane with the incredibly hot burning fuel hitting it? And never before have sky scrapers fallen down from burning? And if you compare the buildings' collapse with building that are controlled imploded, you don't see any difference? And what about the eye witnesses who said there were explosions at the bottom of the buildings?
Seriously? I know the alternative is one helluva scary thought, but that doesn't mean you should accept the official story.
M
I can match that and maybe better it. An illegal alien, a Communist, and a Muslim walked into the bar. The bartender said: "What'll you have, Mr. President?" |
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I wasn't asking for bigger agencies--your friend was sectioned off in one of these agencies, not getting the story from another agency...my point is that the agencies don't work. The information to prevent 9/11 was certainly in our hands months in advance, it was just not taken "seriously" for whatever reason (conspiracy theorists can jump in here).
Given that I know a guy who was seriously, day and night trying to figure the riddle out a week before 9/11 I simply have to call "TOTAL BULLSHIT" on your armchair general, after the fact hindsight is perfect criticism. You might want to look back at exactly what I said. The EXACT information to prevent 9/11 was certainly not in our hands. You earlier stated 'there was no element of surprise'. Like I said, there was nothing BUT SURPRISE. Arguing that someone, somewhere knew one part and maybe another knew another part does not make this untrue. The key phrase is 'actionable intelligence.' This is no different than WWII Axis..."we know the Allies are going to attack...but WHERE? WHEN?" Normandy. |
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What's interesting to me is that regardless of people on planes having or not having weapons, 9/11 could probably never happen again. The element of surprise would not be there.
There was no element of surprise, we just have idiots in the "Intelligence Agencies" that do not talk to one another, and at least one branch knew months before it happened that there was a plan to make it happen. Yes, and one of them was a friend of mine....he they were desperately trying night and day to find out where/when/how 'flying airplanes into buildings' might occur. So there certainly was an element of surprise. That's what the entire attack methodology was predicated upon. Knowing part of something isn't enough. Sometimes knowing all of something isn't enough, because for it to be actionable it needs to be verified as factual, which means multiple sources. Arguing that bigger and better bureaucracies would have prevented 9/11 is an error of a different sort. Please let's not go there, it's too early in the day for me to start drinking.... |
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5. Finland: 45.3 guns per 100, 2.2 violent deaths per 100
Holy shit! Is that a typo?  Well, what did the Soviets learn about Finland in WWII? Don't fuck with Finland... |
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.... Just a very recent example: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/teenagers-allegedly-murder-college-baseball-player-boredom-article-1.1431445Three US teens just murdered a guy making jogging because they were "bored". We hear news like that every few weeks coming from the USA (leaving alone school shooting et al), in the rest of civilized world that shit simply doesn't happen as often. Then, I will make you one question: - would the guy making jogging have been any safer carrying a gun? He was shot in the back and he didn't even see the shooters.....That a 15 years old kid easily accesses a firearm and plasy with it like that, uploading videos and pictures on internet of it, is just a synonym of a rotten society. Like Somalia, Zimbabwe, the USA and so on. What you need to understand is that here in the US we don't have a uniform society about which simple generalizations can be made, but perhaps fifty different cultural milieu with different characteristics, including attitudes about guns. I shift between several daily. But this doesn't transfer well to media depictions of the USA. This means in a literal sense that multiple things can be true at the same time, of those subcultures. Did the teens that shot the guy live in a rotten society (eg their subculture) HELL YES THEY DID! |
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