Well, looks like we could see a 60/40 block reward split by early next year and 50/50 by next summer... all in all I'm happy enough with that.  As a MN owner, I'm happy, I just hope we're not shooting ourselves in the foot here.... This. We're starting to see that "don't give a shit" attitude we see in miners show up in the MN operator arena... What miners 'don't give a shit?' - one whisper that their sacred unearned-money hose might dry up a tad and it's howling tantrum time from the lot of them.  |
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Well, looks like we could see a 60/40 block reward split by early next year and 50/50 by next summer... all in all I'm happy enough with that. |
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the whole discussion today is about masternode owners shutting off pow mining and doing it all themselvs, maybe you do not see it because you have your anti troll filters running full blast I'm still waiting on a sensible argument as to why miners are 4X more valuable to DRK than Masternodes... MNp2pool mining solves a lot of problems and also provides an easy way to integrate Masternode shares at a protocol level for people who can't or don't want to put up an entire Masternode, and allows MNp2pool ops to free up DRK to deploy more Masternodes if the MNp2pool node balance remains above 1000DRK due to miners carrying a balance there to earn MN shares. 50/50 MN/miner split sounds very reasonable to me with this approach. well right now about 60% of the network is not even making masternode payments because they do not comply with rc5. so lets wait untill enforcement and instant tx are in and then maybe you would have an argument because right now miners print the dark and mn mix'em and other than that mn's do dickall and dont even deserve the 20% imo Actually over 76% of pools ARE paying Masternodes currently: https://drk.mn/blocks.htmlAnd do you really believe that without MNs and anonymous transactions DRK would still be worth anthing close to what it is? |
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the whole discussion today is about masternode owners shutting off pow mining and doing it all themselvs, maybe you do not see it because you have your anti troll filters running full blast I'm still waiting on a sensible argument as to why miners are 4X more valuable to DRK than Masternodes... MNp2pool mining solves a lot of problems and also provides an easy way to integrate Masternode shares at a protocol level for people who can't or don't want to put up an entire Masternode, and allows MNp2pool ops to free up DRK to deploy more Masternodes if the MNp2pool node balance remains above 1000DRK due to miners carrying a balance there to earn MN shares. 50/50 MN/miner split sounds very reasonable to me with this approach. If you currently mine with GPU's and pay for your electricity, I think this would actually make a lot of miners better off. |
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If you have not understood financial derivatives, you don't fully know just how howling batshit crazy humans can be. No matter mental your ex wife was. |
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I don't use Twitter - can you post questions on it? Someone should ask him directly...  |
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You know how much work it is running 40 gpus?
I know how much work it is running 24 - bugger all, so I'm guessing that running 40 is not much more. Do you know what actual hard work is? How many silent miners are reading this thread and being turned off. I sure am. My coins will hit the market the second dark even points in this direction.
You're right, I don't care about whining miners who think they're entitled to 4X the reward of people who bring far more actual worth to the coin. |
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Well I'm glad I was told to calm down. It looks like there are many people who are equally as pissed off. Excellent job in dividing the community.
You guys are trying to control peoples resources. I hear comments like "just buy 10 drk (from me) and earn interest". I don't want 10 drk locked up. I want a gpu that I can re purpose. My hardware can generate about as much drk as 6 masternodes, I should sell it all, lock the coin into masternodes and be completely vulnerable to the whims of an illiquid market?
You want a level playing field, but the bar is being set ridiculously high. I have an old 5770 hashing away. At any time I can use it for what I choose, but you guys would prefer I sell it and give you the money?
Forcing people to dump hardware, to buy drk, to buy masternodes also has the consequence of removing hash power from other cryptos and hurting competitor coins. Is this the true motive?
Tra la la. Last time I checked I wasn't holding a gun to your head. Do what you want, but I don't owe you or anyone else a living. |
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How's the debate going? I've been busy getting people into the Dark.....
It's an uphill struggle Tao, but so far none of the dinosaurs have credibly justified why they're 4x as valuable as the upstart mammals. Thats just an ignorant comment. we are all on the same side here and want to see dark succeed There are problems with a PoW system and there are many unknowns about this masternode system and likely it has its own problems that need to be discussed and worked out you may not be wrong but you will not convince anyone with that attitude towards the miners that got you here in the first place Pardon me if I don't subscribe your your religious belief that miners have a god-given right to slurp from the cosmic money hose forever when technologically superior solutions come along and offer greater security and innovation for a fraction of the price.  im just a kid with a 7950 and mined a few darks for my own interests and now i am being shut off the network and treated like shit for trying to be a part of something i though was going to be big. All i ever wanted to do was take part and get a few darks and now some bigger kid with more money comes along and says nope sorry we don't need you anymore, we are buying up the entire system and going to print darks ourselvs between us. if you want to play get out your creditcard. despite what you may believe i am not scum, i just don't have the resources for a masternode and i still want to be a part of this If you read my posts I'm not advocating the abolition of mining. Maybe in the future, but for now, as I say, it's good to have a backup plan. But that backup plan isn't 4X more valuable IMO than the other parts of the system that bring all the innovations, and thus the market value, to the coin. I don't think my opinion is unreasonable? What would DRK be worth without Masternodes, anonymous transactions, InstanTX etc. ? What would it be worth with nothing but miners? Fuck all, is my contention. |
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How's the debate going? I've been busy getting people into the Dark.....
It's an uphill struggle Tao, but so far none of the dinosaurs have credibly justified why they're 4x as valuable as the upstart mammals. Thats just an ignorant comment. we are all on the same side here and want to see dark succeed There are problems with a PoW system and there are many unknowns about this masternode system and likely it has its own problems that need to be discussed and worked out you may not be wrong but you will not convince anyone with that attitude towards the miners that got you here in the first place Pardon me if I don't subscribe your your religious belief that miners have a god-given right to slurp from the cosmic money hose forever when technologically superior solutions come along and offer greater security and innovation for a fraction of the price. So you just want the miners to receive less, but not disappear totally, right? Yes. They will serve as Plan B, but the backup plan shouldn't be 4X as expensive as Plan A. |
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Darkcoins come into existence thru mining. And only thru mining.
Evan Duffield and team, and the whole Masternode concept had nothing to do with it? Just miners? Everybody you mentioned here had to mine to get to some darkcoins, don't you agree? What do you even say here? Did they just push a button? The miners share a few of their new found coins with the masternodes.
Mining is not only about maintaining the blockchain.
Even if there are no transactions for days, it doesn't matter. If there are NO transactions for days, then THAT'S the state of blockchain that has to be integrated and shared for everybody to accept.
A single old Celeron can do all that. You are dellusional. The amount of transactions (low or high or whatever) has nothing to do with the validity of mining. It just is what is. What does that even mean? Even if we have no transactions for a while, the integrity of the blockchain would still need to be maintained. You made it sound like it matters how many transactions go thru when in fact the amount of transactions is completely irrelevant to the integrity of the blockchain. As I said, if there were for some reason NO transactions for a period of time, then this state of blockchain would still need to be checked and shared by everybody in the network. 1. Mining was part of the evolutionary process, sure, but that doesn't mean we have to be stuck with it forever. Not that I'm advocating getting rid of it, I just think it's not as important as it used to be given the Masternode tech we now have. 2. Why can't a single crappy CPU process a few transactions per minute and broadcast them to the network? In what way exactly am I wrong about that? 3. See #2. 1) Agree. 2) Someone else can spoof it if he has 2 celerons. The greed and waste of electricity pushes equilibrium, but the total mass assures no one can break it. Elimiant the pool and you eliminate the 51% threat and mining becomes a more-perfect concept worth keeping around. Stop seeing it how it is, and see how it could be if we fixed the problems... I was trying to point out that petaflops of compute power are not required to maintain a simple blockchain, what's required is that whatever compute power there is is decentralised, which can be achieved by enforcing mining via MNP2pools. Mining is about to be relegated to the backup plan. Miners should not be getting 4X the reward of Masternodes. Do you carry a Glock and then have a shitty gold plated Deagle taped to your ankle as a backup? (I'm sure you can think of a better comparison, ie. something 4X as expensive as a Glock but far less reliable...) |
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How's the debate going? I've been busy getting people into the Dark.....
It's an uphill struggle Tao, but so far none of the dinosaurs have credibly justified why they're 4x as valuable as the upstart mammals. Thats just an ignorant comment. we are all on the same side here and want to see dark succeed There are problems with a PoW system and there are many unknowns about this masternode system and likely it has its own problems that need to be discussed and worked out you may not be wrong but you will not convince anyone with that attitude towards the miners that got you here in the first place Pardon me if I don't subscribe your your religious belief that miners have a god-given right to slurp from the cosmic money hose forever when technologically superior solutions come along and offer greater security and innovation for a fraction of the price. |
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Yes you can.
Go place a 1000000DRK order on an exchange, if you have enough BTC/fiat. Get back to us about what that does to the price of DRK. A masternode serverfarm has to be setup too. Crazier yet, since you don't need to transfer the DRK to the masternodes, but can keep them external, imagine a really clever hacker who gets a few thousand unsecured webservers into his control, just to use them for this masternode takeover operation. He wouldn't even need to buy or rent the hardware...
He would just need to collude with rich enough rich DRK holders.
At this point I have no idea what you are even talking about.  |
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How's the debate going? I've been busy getting people into the Dark.....
It's an uphill struggle Tao, but so far none of the dinosaurs have credibly justified why they're 4x as valuable as the upstart mammals. |
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3 people control >50% of the Bitcoin network.
ASICs are not the answer, p2pool is, and p2pool through Masternodes solves a whole host of potential problems.
Now that's an interesting idea, only how do you set up many p2pools and keep them decentralized? I mean, who will run them? You perhaps mean that each MN will automatically have their own p2pool running?.... interesting. I'm still not 100% convinced that an entity can't have 51% of the network (someone might have that now) and we'd never know it. I like the fact that we can have a checks and balance with the way things are now. Security over simplicity/power consumption, IMHO There is only one p2pool... Have it distributed across a few thousand MNs (each MN runs a p2pool node) - problem solved. |
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a nightmare for everybody else.
How? The purpose of the coin is to be used as a currency. Explain your nightmare situation or how this proposal interferes with the purpose of this coin. I think the problem of centralization and consolidation is much higher with masternodes than with miners. Show me numbers. Three big mining pools colluding can fork the DRK blockchain. How many MN ops would be needed to pervert the network? A much higher percentage, that's how the MN system was designed, you need far more than 51% to cause problems. Top 100 wallets buy 4 times the masternodes that are now in existence. Top 10 wallets buy 1.5 times the masternodes that are now in existence. And contrary to miners it would just take them an evening to set everything up and mess with the system and a few seconds to disappear again. You cannot buy enough Masternodes to have a realistic chance of subverting the network. There aren't enough DRK in existence. Any attempt would cost you many times more than the whole currency is worth. Evan thought that one well and truly through. And you can switch where your mining farm is pointed about 10000x times faster than you can set up a thousand Mastetnodes. |
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Masternodes are even more energy efficient, and just as resistant to decentralisation as mining ever was, arguably more so, with the added benefit that any attempt at centralisation makes DRK holders rich, not GPU/ASIC manufacturers.
But GPU/ASIC manufacturers create jobs... masternode holders are just happy fat pigs in shit who get fed even more?  (just kidding, but the image shall remain) Why am I interested in bolstering AMD's profits? And if Masternodes are just so goddamn profitable, how about miners flog a rig or two and buy some Masternodes, eh? |
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a nightmare for everybody else.
How? The purpose of the coin is to be used as a currency. Explain your nightmare situation or how this proposal interferes with the purpose of this coin. I think the problem of centralization and consolidation is much higher with masternodes than with miners. Show me numbers. Three big mining pools colluding can fork the DRK blockchain. How many MN ops would be needed to pervert the network? A much higher percentage, that's how the MN system was designed, you need far more than 51% to cause problems, because 'active' Masternodes are randomly selected each block. The MN system is inherently more robust than mining will ever be.Miners have been made obsolete, deal with it. |
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I have no problem with buying DRK on an exchange.
I have a problem when buying DRK on an exchange is the only option I were given COUPLED with the horror scenario that only Masternode owners were creating coins.
I agree with this. There is a problem when asics come along and suddenly only an elite group has the chance to mine though. Personally, I'd like to see a way to keep a ceiling on ability to garner hash power, such as changing the algo once it becomes clear x11 asics are on their way, and to just keep changing it. But I have no idea what is involved, certainly another hard fork, so maybe that's not possible. Yah, mining and masternodes are hurdles to investing into DRK. In the end though, that's an investor thing and not a user thing. There are other ways of gaining DRK. You can also sell things and accept DRK as payment. Though, at this time, that's not easy. Nobody wants to spend their DRK yet. Adoption is everything. Until DRK becomes widely used and liquid, it'll be so. BTW, I also think that having a dual system can possibly protect against things like 51% attack with some sort of checking system, but again, that would require a hard fork again.... But ASICS when massproduced become very cheap, much cheaper then CPU or GPU, all the cheap USB ASIC miners are proof of that (and they run with 5 Volts). I am looking forward to that! That is just the natural progression of any innovation, we should embrace this, not be afraid of it! Doesn't matter what the unit cost is, rich people will just buy more of them. At bulk discoint. And that is not different with CPU or GPU, it's just that everything is suddenly energy-efficient. That's what I mean when I say: we should embrace this. Masternodes are even more energy efficient, and just as resistant to decentralisation as mining ever was, arguably more so, with the added benefit that any attempt at centralisation makes DRK holders rich, not GPU/ASIC manufacturers. |
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There is a problem when asics come along and suddenly only an elite group has the chance to mine though.
Hey Tante, The idea being proposed isn't to only allow MN operators to mine, but to do away with mining completely. The MN network would handle block generation and distribute payments in the same manner as the current 20% they receive off blocks. So no asics at all. wow, so the entire future of DRK lies in the hands of a few completely centralized masternode owners? 3 people control >50% of the Bitcoin network. ASICs are not the answer, p2pool is, and p2pool through Masternodes solves a whole host of potential problems. |
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