that's great. it's when everyone and his grandma will invest in btc that i would go for the exit.

not until china and others keep buying phyzz like there is no tomorrow (they must know something that western sheeples don't)

today btc collapsing, gold UP.
Maybe it's the start of an inversion(?)

yeah, constitutions worked marvels all the time everywhere as anyone can see.
it's just a matter of scale: the bigger the political unit and the bigger the troubles that it procures to its subjects in every time and place.
Luckily what is not sustainable won't be sustained for long, since if all depended just on the wisdom of the sheeple we would be really fuck'd for eternity.

of course, but even on Forex you trade just bits and you can't take delivery of foreign currencies.
and maybe they hedge and are into the market for actual btc.

now there are these (i guess they are a good part of this price bubble). More will probably follow


http://www.virtual-strategy.com/2013/10/18/avatrade-now-becomes-most-popular-bitcoin-trading-services-provider

http://www.plus500.com/Instruments/BTCUSD

not to speak about who gets the money, for what, etc.
it has to be all voluntary all the time or it would be just another scam

in the spirit of bitcoin it should be a no-borders nation, open to whomever shares its anarcho-capitalist philosophy, and maybe even crypto, that is where anyone could not be extorted any information, including his participation in it.

It could be nice as a first mission to organize ways to refuse our previous citizenship, or at least to show our will about it. (The fact that is usually so hard is telling about the reality of it as being actually cattle for governments).

A starting point could be elaborating a kind of constitution and nongovernmental "passports" (here is an ex. http://www.worldservice.org ). [edit: a passport with a big bitcoin logo on the cover sounds cool]
Then listing it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_micronations

a super-state is not needed to be free, quite the opposite.
idiots

the more you take, the better.
that's what diversification is all about.
but we still lack ways to store bit-ches (beyond blow and booze) for the triad of moneyness.

e non e' il solo a supporre.
c'e' anche chi suppone che sia cosa buona & giusta dare sempre a Cesare quello che e' suo (di Cesare) e suo (di lui). Solo perche' Cesare ha + pistole di lui, anche se altre scuse ipocrite non mancano.
ma a un certo punto e' l'obbedienza piuttosto che la disobbedienza a costituire il problema.
...e bitcoin e' la soluzione a prova di tutti gli esattori di questo mondo.

ok, just to try to stay in-topic: has gold bottomed here??? A swiss banker friend of a friend recently said me that it has to drop down to 1000 USD. I'm asking just 'cause i liquidated my papergold and looking for a good entry point for some phyzz while holding fast-depreciating USD.

About BTC and anything else, so fast and furious rallies in a context of unanimous bullishness make me feel nervous, bearish, and inclined to start selling, or at least put some bids at low price -about 140 USD.

Remember the ASICMINER shares @0.10 on the GLBSE? :-D

Notice that there are two options (not reciprocally exclusive): buying lots (where you can have houses with services and go to live or rent) and buying just shares of the farm to earn profits proportionally (on top of getting back 50% in 3 years as a loan).

As just an investment, the second is more proper.


[edit] If we hypothesize to buy a share just for profit-sharing = $67,500 and put on top of that at least $2,500 for management expenses (flights and sh*t),  I get 555 BTC @126$/BTC. An IPO price of 0.556 BTC/share for a total of 1,000 shares maybe a ballpark starting point.

Probably this investment won't pay enough to keep up with BTC exchange rate, but it's a way to diversify in the real economy and get a stake in a sensible project. Not to speak about pimping bitcoins to libertarian expats.

until they keep printing they are doing both.


zero-sum or not, someone got raped
[sorry for the OT]

the best issuer/manager should:
- be 101% trustable
- be capable / experienced in business
- available to setup a timesharing system for investors.

I did it in my intro: to discuss issuing a security to sell shares of a share there.

Hi, maybe this project by Simon Black of sovereignman.com about a libertarian community in Chile endowed with a profitable biological farm (already operating) could be liked by many here at least as an investment and maybe more: www.galtsgulchchile.com

So this is just to see if there is enough interest here to list a security for people who want a stake in it. Apart from profit and any other returns-sharing investors may acquire a right to use the property for an holiday (if a way to manage the time-sharing is agreed and realized).

I am not advocating that the issuer should be me. Anyone trustable and capable enough can list this share. I posted this just since I'd like to invest there but I lack enough cash for a whole share.

A problem is that to acquire a share of property there a minimum of about $50K are currently required (see table below), so if that amount is not reached nothing would come out of it. In this case the issuer should just return to the investors their funds at an established date.

I post below the last newsletter I received from them. Check their websit for more info, and feel free to comment and develop this idea as you deem best.

Galt's Gulch Chile
October Newsletter

Hello Galt's Gulchers,

So many things have been happening here in Chile in the past few weeks. Our property has developed by leaps and bounds. We're excited to share with you updates about our farmers program, recent developments with our growing team, the finalization of our pre-sale phase and our first ever Spring Celebration. Considering how much we have to announce, we hope that you'll stick with us through out the entirety of this newsletter.  

PRE-SALE LOT PROGRAM - CLOSING SOON    
Response to Galt's Gulch Chile has been tremendous. In our Founders phase two and our Pre-Sale phase, we allocated a certain number of lots and available memberships...and the Founders phase two in the residential areas of GGC and the Pre-Sale phase are now coming to a close this week.
 
After much discussion, our managing partner has agreed to extend these pre-sale prices until Wednesday, October 16, 2013, as a courtesy to those that are interested in taking advantage of these remarkable prices.
 
This is the last chance to get these incredible prices for some of the most pristine self-sustaining property in all of Central Chile. GGC sits in a natural setting with fertile soil, pure fresh water sources, mountain hiking trails, ranches and organic and bio-dynamic farming.  Our residents enjoy a natural landscape with a pristine environment surrounded and protected by 5,000 foot mountain peaks.  The climate and water in Galt's Gulch is ideal for growing items similar to southern California.  Avocados, pomegranate, lemon, orange, key lime, almond, chestnut, aloe vera, bay leaves, boldo, grapefruit, persimmon, grapes, even wild blackberries are all present in GGC, today.

If you want to lock in your purchase at these prices, contact your account manager, or email sales@galtsgulchchile.com so that an account manager can help you through the process. To learn more on the program, visit the Pre-Sale Lot section of our website.

The pricing for our Pre-Sale Lot Program is as follows:

1.25-acre lots
  Pre-Sale Lot Program - $48,500
  (20% discount with physical gold purchase)
  1st Phase pricing - $75,000

2.5-acre lots
  Pre-Sale Lot Program - $92,500
  (20% discount with physical gold purchase)
  1st Phase pricing - $128,500

5-acre lots
  Pre-Sale Lot Program - $145,000
  (20% discount with physical gold purchase)
  1st Phase pricing - $195,000
 
FOUNDERS CLUB - FARM PROGRAM
 
We are very excited to introduce our newest program at GGC, the Founders Club farm ownership program. This is a remarkable way to diversify and protect your family's health and wealth and to become a Founder of Galt's Gulch Chile's 250 acre organic working farm. The GGC working farm has been operating for the last three years without the use of chemicals and is currently in process of being certified as organic.  
 
The current crops of the organic farm consist of various avocado varieties, various lemon varieties and also key limes.  The lemon crops comprise the largest portion of the farm, on over 65 hectares (161 acres), along with approximately 1,200 key lime trees and 400 avocado trees.  75 acres of the farm are being cleared at the present time, where dozens of new organic, non-GMO, fruits, vegetables, nuts, herbs and spices are soon to be planted.  
 
The existing varieties of lemon trees of the farm are known to produce high yields and are in high demand in the marketplace.  The Fina 49 variety (15 hectares), when managed properly, is known to yield up to 100 tons per hectare annually.  The Eureka variety (50 hectares) is one of the most popular varieties of lemon around the world, with yields ranging from 90 tons per hectare annually to over 120 tons per hectare annually when well managed.  The GGC farming team intends to implement the absolute best methods in realizing the highest and most sustainable yields possible, via the use of cutting edge water filtration and treatment, organic composts, proper crop placement and rotation and utilization of our thriving bee colonies for improved pollination at the appropriate times of the years, among other things.
 
The farm is presently selling approximately 20,000,000 lemons annually to local pickers and wholesalers, equating to annual production levels of slightly over 55 tons per hectare. GGC estimates these figures to double in the next 1-2 years, falling in line with known output amounts of lemon orchards in Chile and worldwide for the types of lemons presently at the GGC farm.

GGC is now looking into all international export markets, as well as the best local and Chilean markets, in order to obtain top pricing for the high quality organic lemons that are currently being grown at the farm, to take advantage of the increased market prices that are typical for the winter months in the Northern Hemisphere from December to March...and to of course maintain top dollar for the GGC organic, non-GMO, produce for generations to come.      
 
In additional to the mature, and nearly mature, crops, throughout the GGC farm, there are several existing residential structures soon to be renovated and furnished...for use in the GGC Guest Hacienda program.  The Guest Haciendas at GGC are on-site nightly accommodations for clients and guests who are in town to visit us and tour the property.  The Guest Haciendas will have full maid service, room service and most all luxuries one would find at top caliber hotels, but with the added pleasure of being able to experience all that goes along with living at GGC. This is an added bonus to those who become owners of the farm, as the Guest Haciendas, and income thereof, are part of the property purchase in the farm program.
 
Pricing for the Founders Club farm program is as follows:
 
Share               Total Due                Loan Payback     Ownership Interest
                    At Signing (USD)           To Founder            In GGC Farm        .
 
1                        $67,500                  $33,750                    .65%
2                        $130,000                $70,000                    1.3%
5                        $312,500                $187,500                  3.25%
10                      $575,000                $400,000                   6.5%
 
Continuing on with the popular structure of the second round of the Founders Club in the residential areas of GGC, we have built in a three-year payback on a portion of the farm program, as is illustrated in the chart above. This chart, along with other helpful information about this program, will soon be available under our Founder's Club section of our website for your convenience.
 
Above and beyond the three-year payback on part of the total amount due at signing, the Founders of the farm program also enjoy numerous other benefits of becoming Founders of the GGC farm, including a share of the monthly net profits from the sale of the organic produce, as well as a share of the monthly net profits from the Guest Hacienda rental program.  Each Founder's share in the profits is, of course, based on the amount that each Founder elects to purchase.  The number of each ownership package is limited, so inquire with your account manager as to which ones are still available.

Upon becoming a Founder of the GGC farm, Founders will enjoy all of the benefits of ownership, but without the work involved in realizing them.  The GGC teams operate and manage the farm at the present time and will continue to do so, but all Founders of the farm are more than welcome to contribute value to the farm by participating in ways that benefit the farm as a whole.  This is not required of course, but is always welcomed in order to discuss and possibly implement ideas from Founders for the betterment of the farm.
 
Ask yourself, are you willing to wait on this investment?
  
SPRING CELEBRATION
 
We are excited to announce the arrival of our Spring Celebration. We are inviting all soon-to-be Galt's Gulch residents and guests to join us for a celebration of the community. This will be a wonderful opportunity to meet our staff and some of future neighbors. The Spring Celebration will be held from Oct. 30 through Nov. 4, 2013.

We will have an assortment of fun and exciting activities to suit all interests. We will be providing tours of Galt's Gulch so visitors will be able to see the land in its entirety. There will also be a wide variety of activities, such as camping, hiking, horseback-riding, biking, yoga, organic farming classes, Chilean dancing, BBQs, as well as liberty speakers and entertainers at the Celebration mixing and mingling with all who attend...and of course a lot of kicking back while taking in the peace and serenity of it all. There will be plenty of opportunities to speak with our team members who operate the farm, oversee construction and infrastructure, as well to talk with vendors and learn about the technologies which GGC is implementing to protect the eco-system and create self-sustainability in all areas of the community.
 
In addition to the wonders that you can experience at Galt's Gulch, we will be providing various tour options. You will be able to tour one of the local wine vineyards to taste the richness of the wine grown from the very crops found in our region. You will also be able to participate in a tour of Santiago and the beach areas located in Vina Del Mar.
 
Book your flights now. Then go to the Spring Celebration link on our website. There you will register for this event. There will be car and hotel accommodations, as well as a plethora of activities you can register to join.
 
 
TEAM CHANGES
 
Due to our growth, we have brought on new talented team members dedicated to the cause. They come from all over, from Chicago to New Hampshire to Kansas to El Salvador to even right here in Chile where we have found a new webmaster to manage our ever-improving website, www.galtsgulchchile.com. There is now brand new content with more information on our project for you to peruse. This includes the bios of sales director Erin Gallagly and Account Manager Ronald Monroe. You may have already spoken to one of them if you have inquired about a lot so be sure to visit our Galt's Gulch Team section to learn more about them. Continue to check back, as we have welcomed on even more members to our team. Our most recent addition is Victor Lopez from Houston, TX. Welcome to the team Victor!

We hope you enjoyed this brief update of all the things going on here at the Gulch, and look forward to see many of you at the Spring Event at the end of the month.

To your freedoms,

The Galch Gulch Team

Galt's Gulch Chile
Avenida Nueva Tajamar 481
Las Condes, Santiago 7550000
________

[edit]

more info here:
http://sovereignvalley.com
http://www.galtsgulchchile.com

http://sovereignvalley.com/docs/Resilient-Community-Update-6.pdf
(change the "6" with lower numbers for previous updates)

Project presentation here:
https://iman.infusionsoft.com/app/linkClick/30981/cda1d9c0fa44374c/120152099/aeb0523ba7bad52a
Q&A:
https://iman.infusionsoft.com/app/linkClick/30983/52a893425611104d/120152099/aeb0523ba7bad52a

so the subject of this thread is expected to persist, and go on, right?
what the gurus say?