It means a few different options: 1) The bankers talk about how they introduce volatility into the metals market to try and scare the general public out of them, so it might just be wild pump and dump city for craptocurrency 2) The R3 bankers own most of the Ethereum scamtokens and likely a lesser amount of bitcoin, so they might try to weaken bitcoin while pumping the Eth scam 3) They might just naked short everything into the ground like they do in metals to try and keep people in the dollar 4) If there's a danger of a run on the Comex from too much fractional reserve, they might try to pump craptocurrency in order to try and trick people from buying gold and silver and redirect them back into digital scam markets instead In other words, it's generally bad from every angle for everyone on the planet to give govt the power to control markets. |
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In future this coin will die as there is only one Bitcoin .
Cryptocurrency has a reverse Schelling poinit because network effect assumes infinite scalability. It's inevitable people either leave the main chain or fork off from it to avoid usury fees. The most likely outcome is death by dilution if there's no gigantic scaling solution (I don't consider LN the fix for this problem). |
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The fact that the ESF has not yet attempted to destroy bitcoin means one of two [three] things: 1) either bitcoin is a govt sanctioned scam, or 2) they just haven't gotten around to destroying it yet:
;or 3) Nobody will accept a naked short bitcoin, as it not only is a naked short, but it is no easier to obtain, hold, and secure than a real Bitcoin. Paper gold, OTOH, is much easier to obtain, hold, and secure than real gold - which is why (some foolish) people accept it. Due to the technical nature of bitcoin and the fact that most people don't even know how to work a VCR, it's a given the vast majority of the population will be using "bitcoin banks" like Coinbase or other entities and not taking delivery of their coins. It will be even easier to short bitcoin into the ground than metals. Like I said, you don't even need naked shorts. All you need to do is short the price below cost of production and force miners to turn off, which in turn further reduces the synthetic price floor through a feedback loop since cost of production is recursive based on it's own demand. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge bitcoin is far more vulnerable to weaponized shorts than metals is either lying or doesn't know what they're talking about imo. TLDR: there is no incentive whatsoever for the ESF to short metals below cost of production, but there's huge incentive for them to do so in bitcoin. the sooner big blockers get their own stupid coin the better
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People just make believe bitcoin is whenever they get on the profitable side of a pump and dump.
Gold pumped from $400 to $1900, now down to $1255 Silver pumped from $16 to $50, now down to $16.50 Metals a reliable store of value, you say? Not a valid argument and I already posted why. The ESF can only naked short metals down to cost of production to try and contain them. The second they go after bitcoin with naked shorts, they can literally destroy it because there's no real price floor. The fact that the ESF has not yet attempted to destroy bitcoin means one of two things: 1) either bitcoin is a govt sanctioned scam, or 2) they just haven't gotten around to destroying it yet: 4) Cryptocurrency doesn't function as a store of value because it's price floor is recursive based on it's own demand (in PoW). This means it's a complete house of cards in terms of so called value storage.
In commodities like silver, the ESF practices Keynesianism in the commodity markets and naked shorts them down to cost of production to try and keep their market caps as low as possible and prevent them from competing with the dollar. Why? Because nobody would submit to slavery via debt based scam currency at all unless you force them into it.
They can't short metals lower than cost of production because it would create scarcity and be counterintuitive to their goals. However, they can short bitcoin below cost of production because there is no real price floor, only a temporary, synthetic one. This in turn causes the miners to be forced to turn off (like KNC) and the synthetic floor crashes even more until the thing implodes to nothingness.
Another reason why craptocurrency is horrible and not a sound form of money. Metals like silver can be manipulated by shorts to contain their market cap, but bitcoin can actually be destroyed by them due to having no real floor.
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You even claim cryptocurrency is "fungible" when a 10 year old child can see through that lie.
Which is the same accusation we can make against gold bullion then which are in my experience not fungible with each other and different dealers have different things they are willing to buy and sell to you. These are the facts: Bitcoin isn't money at all, it's a currency. Fungibility is one of the requirements of money. Money can't just randomly morph from one thing to another with forks or alterations.
Money = has objective, static traits
Currency = random arbitrary bullshit some guy makes up and constantly fiddles with aka bitcoin
This is why it's called "cryptocurrency". Currencies are not a store of value either. People just make believe bitcoin is whenever they get on the profitable side of a pump and dump.
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Gold + Silver = Dumb money
Bitcoin = Smart money
Bitcoin isn't money at all, it's a currency. Fungibility is one of the requirements of money. Money can't just randomly morph from one thing to another with forks or alterations. Money = has objective, static traits Currency = random arbitrary bullshit some guy makes up and constantly fiddles with aka bitcoin This is why it's called "crypto currency". Currencies are not a store of value either. People just make believe bitcoin is whenever they get on the profitable side of a pump and dump. |
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Any time a large amount of metals move for payment and an entity takes possession of said metals, transaction fees in the form of security, transportation, and storage are required.
Completely irrelevant and orthogonal argument. For all you crackhead bitcoiners who are trying to buy kilos of whatever substance you are smoking, anytime you are transferring large amounts of fiat paper, metals, or bitcoin and receiving real world goods for them, you would need security on both sides to make sure the other side doesn't try to stiff them. So called Buttalik Butterin dumb contracts don't alleviate this problem if you're transacting in real world goods. |
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Metals remove counter party risk and middle men
Only when it is sitting still, like deep in the ground. Or in your closet. Otherwise, no it doesn't. More made up bullshit. You're not required to ever place metals into 3rd party custody. It's not possible to "take possesision" of bitcoin because the coins never leave the blockchain in the first place. You are always exposed to rent seeking middlemen (transaction validators) and counter party risk in bitcoin. This is why bitcoin is 100% useless as a settlement layer. Maybe you can use craptocurrency as a Paypal-style payment processor, aka a currency, but it's useless as a settlement layer aka money (the base of Exter's pyramid). Here's an 1800 year old silver Roman denarius. Where will bitcoin be in 1800 years? It will be dead as a doornail long before then. It's useless as a settlemenet layer and unable to do things like reliably transfer generational wealth:  |
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We are engineering money so crypto can evolve. Gold cannot.
You invalidate yourself with your own posts so I don't even need to put up an argument. Money doesn't "evolve". If money can "evolve" and randomly morph from one thing to another, that means it's not fungible and fungibility is a REQUIREMENT of money. It also means it's inevitable that it dies from rough consensus attack without a dictator attempting to force people to use one or another, which is obviously not decentralized. Zkp will allow things like sidechains and new trustless designs which will move biztech off mainchain.
There's no such thing as an "off-chain" transaction in craptocurrency in practice since every transaction has to be settled on-chain eventually. I covered all that here: In simple terms, why you should hope cryptocurrency dies and gold and silver defeats them: All cryptocurrencies are inherently rent seeking usury systems and a pseudo form of debt based currency if you will. The PoW chain does not just magically stay up on it's own, it requires a constant upkeep to exist at all (rent). A peer to peer physical gold or silver transaction can be done with no overhead cost; they're the equivalent of an off-chain transaction with no middleman or monopoly man gouging you with usury fees. Cryptocurrency is completely different. Even if you attempt to do off-chain transactions via something like lightning network, or even in-person transactions with physical bitcoin bearer bonds, the transactions ALWAYS have to be settled on-chain eventually, so you are NEVER escaping the rent seeking usury system. Since the blockchain is highly scaling constrained, it's like condeming yourself to extreme usury in the end game. Bitcoin PoW is designed to centralize and the cartels running the mining operations will either be taken over by TPTB who already run the current system, or will just be a recreation of them in practice. The further you abstract money away from barter, the larger a scam it is. Only physical commodity based currencies are sound money that remove middlemen while allowing you to escape the debt based, rent seeking usury system.  You dont know what your talking about literally. Im a coder your not. When i say things like engineering money im being subtle. I dont have time to explain to you why your closed mind cant comprehend the implications of that statement. What you just wrote shows me that you have no understanding of what money actually is. In fact there is no actual definition. Zkp lets you totally design trustless offchain yet connected consensus protocols. Just watch and learn. Says who? You just make up shit one after another. I started with MEL then went to Python. I don't code as a profession because it's torture. Same reason Anonymint always talks about coding but doesn't actually do any lol. You are 100% a flat out liar. You even claim cryptocurrency is "fungible" when a 10 year old child can see through that lie. |
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gold & silver are cumbersome at best, and subject to outright confiscation at worst.
Most illogical statement I've ever seen. Nobody actually "owns" bitcoins. If you have the private key, the so called "coins" don't actually leave the blockchain into your possession. The blockchain is like a virtual loaf of bread you make believe you own a piece of, but since you never actually take possession of anything, it's always loaded to the hilt with counter party risk and built-in middle men you can't rid yourself of. Metals remove counter party risk and middle men, bitcoin doesn't remove either one. These attributes make bitcoin useless as a settlement layer. |
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Actually they probably just want to sell them for a higher price.
Maybe you will get to sell a bitcoin or two at a higher price. Maybe not. Eventually the ghost of Ron Paul will come calling to haunt you daring to participate in unsound money: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-8kmPJKGgM |
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Average joes are stupid, they don't have an opinion. And you can certainly bet that they won't suddenly start buying bitcoins when the halving comes.
The only purpose of Bitcoin is a hedge against legacy financial systems imploding. If they were stable and functioned, there would be no reason to switch. Since the legacy financial systems are mathematically doomed, a good bit of transfer of wealth is likely to move to Bitcoin. You're basically front running the transfer before the average Joe is forced to change, like in Venezuela how they became super interested in Bitcoin as their currency implodes. You quoted the "dump the dollar and buy anything but the dollar" trade. Both the dollar and bitcoin are rent seeking usury schemes, but the dollar is loaned into existence so it requires infinite growth to not collapse for servicing the interest when combined interest is always higher than the principal. Since demographics have peaked in every nation that matters, and energy return on investment is also cratering, growth is over and the dollar is mathematically doomed unless interest rates are perma set to 0 or negative. Bitcoin doesn't require infinite growth to exist, all it requires is some greater fools, so it can outlive the dollar, but it's still a rent seeking usury scheme with built in middlemen while metals are not. |
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btw his debt-base doodoo is just some made up shit FUD
Nice lying Marcus, but you know it's 100% true and not so called "FUD". Bitcoin is a rent seeking usury system that introduces middlemen where middlemen should not exist. I will repeat my statement again since you don't seem to understand why bitcoin is invalid as a settlement layer: The point is you are not REQUIRED to expose yourself to any 3rd party middlemen using metals as a settlement layer like in bitcoin (the miners who demand rent). The energy input >0 required at all times for bitcoin to exist at all makes it a debt based system in practice. Metals are not a rent seeking vortex, they exist with no energy input; they're not a debt based system. You cannot use a debt based system as the base settlement layer. It's completely absurd to even suggest it.
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Hey gang. I have no life and have run out of things to do in my mom's basement.
Does anyone know of a good gold speculation forum I can go to and talk about bitcoin all day? The only reason I would do it is that I have no life. I have no interest at all in gold but I think they would appreciate me talking about bitcoin in a place where they go to discuss gold.
Any help would be appreciated.
http://www.zerohedge.com/The Winklevoss are still mad at the jews and Larry Summers after facebook. We could convince them to dump and destroy bitcoin while using the money to buy silver at the same time. This would implode the bitcoin debt based usury system Larry Summers is trying to hoist on people, while also imploding banker's metals manipulation and sending silver to $100+ at the same time. Profit while destroying your enemies in the process. Win win. |
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I suppose they could make a machine that checks out the coins/bullion for you. However, I am sure the makers of such machines will charge a pretty penny for said machine or tack on a small "fee" to rent for the use.
They already exist. You can also use free android phone apps and a ping test where the microphone can spot fake coins by resonance of the ping. Hell, I can tell the difference between real or fake with my ear with ease. There are also things like the specific gravity test. It actually seems far easier to spot fake silver than fake gold because tungsten is EXTREMELY close to gold in the specific gravity test, while nothing to my knowledge is for silver, plus silver has several other unique traits gold doesn't. See again with the fallacy...."they(metals) exist with no energy input" yes they exist on Earth but in order to retrieve them it costs (guess what?) MONEY!!ENERGY!!!CALORIES!!!
They are not debt based instruments because they require no rent or energy input greater >0 to exist at all while bitcoin is a debt based instrument. |
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This means you would have, say $100k in savings and transfer $10k at a time onto a centralized BTC debit card or something. With metals, you would do the exact same thing, move small amounts at a time onto a more centralized system if you need the convenience.
You could not do this and have this system exist without fees to transact. Not possible. The point is you are not REQUIRED to expose yourself to any 3rd party middlemen using metals as a settlement layer like in bitcoin (the miners who demand rent). The energy input >0 required at all times for bitcoin to exist at all makes it a debt based system in practice. Metals are not a rent seeking vortex, they exist with no energy input; they're not a debt based system. You cannot use a debt based system as the base settlement layer. It's completely absurd to even suggest it. |
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Using physical metals as the base unit of account and settlement (Exter's Pyramid) allows you to remove all middlemen and if you would like some other type of convenience, you can then build a centralized system on top of it.
So how would build a centralized system on top of metal without an enormous amount of counter-party risk? How would you guarantee who held what? Goldmoney.com is currently already doing it, but you have to fully trust that they secure your metal and will deliver it in full on demand. HUGE counter-party risk. There is no difference whatsoever in practice between metals and bitcoin in that case. For instance, for bitcoin to have any market penetration in the upper middle class of the world, you would need around 8 MB blocks, then on-chain transactions would still only be economical for something like transactions of $10k in value. This means you would have, say $100k in savings and transfer $10k at a time onto a centralized BTC debit card or something. With metals you would do the exact same thing, move small amounts at a time onto a more centralized system if you need the convenience. Do you see now why bitcoin doesn't actually solve any problem whatsoever? lol. It just makes the base settlement layer of your system less sound than precious metals and introduces middlemen where middlemen shouldn't exist. This is why legacy banking shills like Larry Summers and Ben Bernanke support bitcoin, because it allows them to insert themselves as middlemen where you should be immune to them. |
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Bitcoin does NOT remove the middleman, only physical commodity based currencies like metals do.
r0ach, you're kinda insulting everyone's intelligence here. You know darn well that you cannot transact among hundreds of thousands, millions of employees, employers, goods producers, suppliers, service providers, merchants, shippers, corporations, nations, etc. without a middleman or middle-service. At the speed/throughput needed for the world's current daily transactions (50-100k/second), peer-to-peer / face-to-face metals transactions would be impossible and unworkable. Metals are great for wealth preservation and face-to-face snail barter, and some industry usage, but nothing more. I will use the same argument bitcoin core uses about block size. You can create a centralized system on top of a decentralized one, but not vice versa. Using physical metals as the base unit of account and settlement (Exter's Pyramid) allows you to remove all middlemen and if you would like some other type of convenience, you can then build a centralized system on top of it. Using bitcoin as the base of unit of account or settlement gives you middlemen right out of the gate already, so it's completely useless as a form of settlement. |
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We are engineering money so crypto can evolve. Gold cannot.
You invalidate yourself with your own posts so I don't even need to put up an argument. Money doesn't "evolve". If money can "evolve" and randomly morph from one thing to another, that means it's not fungible and fungibility is a REQUIREMENT of money. It also means it's inevitable that it dies from rough consensus attack without a dictator attempting to force people to use one or another, which is obviously not decentralized. Zkp will allow things like sidechains and new trustless designs which will move biztech off mainchain.
There's no such thing as an "off-chain" transaction in craptocurrency in practice since every transaction has to be settled on-chain eventually. I covered all that here: In simple terms, why you should hope cryptocurrency dies and gold and silver defeats them: All cryptocurrencies are inherently rent seeking usury systems and a pseudo form of debt based currency if you will. The PoW chain does not just magically stay up on it's own, it requires a constant upkeep to exist at all (rent). A peer to peer physical gold or silver transaction can be done with no overhead cost; they're the equivalent of an off-chain transaction with no middleman or monopoly man gouging you with usury fees. Cryptocurrency is completely different. Even if you attempt to do off-chain transactions via something like lightning network, or even in-person transactions with physical bitcoin bearer bonds, the transactions ALWAYS have to be settled on-chain eventually, so you are NEVER escaping the rent seeking usury system. Since the blockchain is highly scaling constrained, it's like condeming yourself to extreme usury in the end game. Bitcoin PoW is designed to centralize and the cartels running the mining operations will either be taken over by TPTB who already run the current system, or will just be a recreation of them in practice. The further you abstract money away from barter, the larger a scam it is. Only physical commodity based currencies are sound money that remove middlemen while allowing you to escape the debt based, rent seeking usury system. |
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