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Author Topic: Martin Armstrong Discussion  (Read 624454 times)
sidhujag
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July 16, 2017, 05:28:08 AM
 #3801

Armstrong is alike you and me his supercomputer cant predict shit in short term for when it matters
 Im wondering about his rei forcast. He called a top in 2017.. we seen the rei top? I think rei index doubled since then and was a bottom when he posted as a top. Again I make money off of ppl like him I do the opposite. Until he proves otherwise... but then again I was always more prophetic than him in predictions so I stopped reading his stuff now.
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July 16, 2017, 11:16:24 AM
Last edit: July 17, 2017, 01:15:03 AM by Traxo
 #3802

Little bird asks @r0ach to link to anything AnonyMint has written to justify his assertion that AnonyMint is pissed off if Monero rises or where AnonyMint predicted Monero would not rise at this time?
Perhaps @roach is referring to some yet unpublished/unfinished anonymity blog which makes no statement whatsoever about price objectives for the price of Monero
(and in fact those who were trying to trade based on that document were told to not do so because price is not short-term correlated to technical realities which are future looking (as competition will rise to enact that sledgehammer of the little bird’s insights).
We all know @r0ach is still butthurt for selling BTC at $600 and buying silver.
And for not buying LTC at 0.006 when AnonyMint told him to (which is still going to 0.05 btw and make sure you sell all forks of BTC and hold only the original).


EDIT:
Quote from: sidhujag
Im wondering about his rei forcast. He called a top in 2017.. we seen the rei top?

Definitely so in London, Switzerland, Vancouver, etc.. He has blogged about all those toppings over the past few months.

The theme has always been that Europe would top out a couple/few of years before the USA and we would have a stampede of capital into the dollar and dollar assets as the final topping in the USA (currently projecting roughly 2020 - 2022ish).
Right now there is a deadcat bounce in the Euro as the last gasp before the European collapse ensues in 2018.
The deadcat bounce is because of for example the election of Macron in France, the pooling of all the sovereign bonds into an asset backed by the core of Germany (which means when it explodes it takes down Germany also), and what he writes about as linked.


Quote from: sidhujag
I was always more prophetic than him in predictions

Just because you say so right. Stroke that non-objective pride.
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July 17, 2017, 01:21:57 AM
 #3803

Little bird asks @r0ach to link to anything AnonyMint has written to justify his assertion that AnonyMint is pissed off if Monero rises or where AnonyMint predicted Monero would not rise at this time?
Perhaps @roach is referring to some yet unpublished/unfinished anonymity blog which makes no statement whatsoever about price objectives for the price of Monero
(and in fact those who were trying to trade based on that document were told to not do so because price is not short-term correlated to technical realities which are future looking (as competition will rise to enact that sledgehammer of the little bird’s insights).
We all know @r0ach is still butthurt for selling BTC at $600 and buying silver.
And for not buying LTC at 0.006 when AnonyMint told him to (which is still going to 0.05 btw and make sure you sell all forks of BTC and hold only the original).


EDIT:
Quote from: sidhujag
Im wondering about his rei forcast. He called a top in 2017.. we seen the rei top?

Definitely so in London, Switzerland, Vancouver, etc.. He has blogged about all those toppings over the past few months.

The theme has always been that Europe would top out a couple/few of years before the USA and we would have a stampede of capital into the dollar and dollar assets as the final topping in the USA (currently projecting roughly 2020 - 2022ish).
Right now there is a deadcat bounce in the Euro as the last gasp before the European collapse ensues in 2018.
The deadcat bounce is because of for example the election of Macron in France, the pooling of all the sovereign bonds into an asset backed by the core of Germany (which means when it explodes it takes down Germany also), and what he writes about as linked.


Quote from: sidhujag
I was always more prophetic than him in predictions

Just because you say so right. Stroke that non-objective pride.
Exactly just like ma heh. He called the forming of a top in 2015.75 but prices have flown way higher from that point... so now we are here thinking rates went up and this is finally the big one that MA has been waiting for? Hmm dunno 2015.75 didnt actually form a top but instead was the start of a new leg up. In order for it to be what hes saying prices in next year probably should fall as fast as they rose meaning 25 to 35% rei correction this year and next. We shall see.
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July 17, 2017, 02:58:31 AM
 #3804

Little bird asks @r0ach to link to anything AnonyMint has written to justify his assertion that AnonyMint is pissed off if Monero rises

Perhaps the constant "hey guys, I don't really hate monero, but I hate monero!" posts.

I don't like (bordering on hate although I don't allow myself be consumed by hate) the community of Monero.

There is something foul smell in the community of Monero. I'd rather not try to explain what that smell is


We all know @r0ach is still butthurt for selling BTC at $600 and buying silver.

I did not liquidate all btc for silver in 2015 or 2016.  Only this fool sidhujag keeps repeating that lie.  I dumped bitcoin around the peak before it collapsed during the halving then bought back lower and started buying silver a little later.  I'm STILL buying more silver every single week.  Here's my weekly silver order for this week paid for with bitcoins that were dumped at $2700:




And for not buying LTC at 0.006 when AnonyMint told him to

I actually bought LTC solely from the free money bull flag before I saw you say anything about it.  It was entirely a technical trade.

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July 17, 2017, 10:13:00 AM
 #3805

...

r0ach

Buying silver seems to be a brave trade now.  Sentiment on the precious metals, especially silver, seems to be about as bad as for cryptos.

I am away now, I have been buying small old European gold coins here and there on my trip.  Silver is just not attractive to me.

r0ach (and anyone else), I would be interested in views on PLATINUM, Pt is my "hedge" just in case our financial situation actually gets better, hey it could happen.  

Pt apparently has one big fundamental problem, namely that various new automotive technologies (esp. electric cars) will call for less use of Pt.

Palladium has been marching upwards lately, it is a metal with interesting properties (especially re hydrogen).
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July 17, 2017, 12:02:00 PM
 #3806

Quote from: r0ach
Perhaps the constant "hey guys, I don't really hate monero, but I hate monero!" posts.

Perpetually unhappy is the person who is pissed off when someone else gets laid or scores a few baskets. Not even Michael Jordan or Rockefeller can shut out his competition.

Many of my friends own some Monero. The entire crypto ecosystem is rising, thus we all rise together.

As for the final score and the championship, that is not complete yet.

Sentiments about certain attitudes will make more sense and be more clarified by and if ever certain actions are completed— better than any hollow words could express.

Quote from: r0ach
I actually bought LTC…

Backsplaining is not equivalent to the public prediction that came true.

Quote from: sidhujag
…He called the forming of a top in 2015.75 but prices have flown way higher from that point…

Another person who has not read every blog and every paid subscription report, attributing predictions to MA that he never made.
The 2015.75 was an ECM turning point and was the exact day that Russia entered the Syrian conflict.
It is not the real estate cycle (global nor USA which are separate cycles).

How would you feel if some idiot that does not understand programming started making a lot of false accusations about your Syscoin.
Up your game man and stop be a disingenuous twit.


@r0ach and @OROBTC, both Ag & Pt are not money, will never be even a currency again, and they are highly volatile commodities.
As the global economy implodes, commodities are going to nosedrive into the abyss. In short, both of you are making a big mistake.
Buy more crypto and hang on tight.
A little gold as a diversification, but your huge gains will come from crypto (yet also highly volatile).
Commodities highly volatile but no where near the gains of crypto and crypto has 1000X growth potential while commodities are only going to shrink as the global industrial age economy does (we are moving into Knowledge Age and do not tell me little bits of silver in mobile phones will make up for it).

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July 17, 2017, 11:52:12 PM
Last edit: July 18, 2017, 12:28:23 AM by r0ach
 #3807

@r0ach and @OROBTC, both Ag & Pt are not money, will never be even a currency again

@anonymint:  cryptocurrency is not money and will never be money.

Remember how Rome debased the denarius from 90%+ silver to basically 0% silver?  I bet there were some rubes telling people silver is dead and no longer money then too, then here comes...hundreds of nations using silver again afterwards.  Cryptocurrency is garbage:

bitcoin has solved zero problems whatsoever concerning money.  It doesn't solve byzantine generals, it has no Nash equilibrium, it's full of counter party risk, it's designed to centralize, doesn't scale, not fungible, not a store of value, etc.  Bitcoin in current form is literally trash compared to gold and silver.  

It's a linked list with a get rich quick scheme built on top of it, nothing more, nothing less.  Everything about it is completely arbitrary in nature.  It does not isolate any type of problem and solve it in an objective manner. It's a Rube Goldberg machine.

In fact, you should be tarred and feathered for even attempting to infer craptocurrency is some type of form of sound money at all:

In something like gold and silver you can at least say "ok, the price is only a tiny bit over cost of production so it's not gonna go lower".  In bitcoin, cost of production is recursive based on it's own demand, so there's never any real price floor ever and the thing is always just going to be a pump and dump game to see who can jigger the price up then bail out, or attack the non-existent cost of production floor with shorts to create a new lower synthetic floor to cover as miners are forced to shut down.  

The economics of bitcoin are honestly cringe worthy when you hear people claim this is some type of form of "sound money".  This is like an extended replica of the Jewish Ponzi system that already exists where nobody can figure out what the real value of anything is and everything is entirely based around nothing but manipulation.

#craptocurrencyscam

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July 18, 2017, 03:01:17 AM
 #3808

Little bird asks @r0ach to link to anything AnonyMint has written to justify his assertion that AnonyMint is pissed off if Monero rises

Perhaps the constant "hey guys, I don't really hate monero, but I hate monero!" posts.

I don't like (bordering on hate although I don't allow myself be consumed by hate) the community of Monero.

There is something foul smell in the community of Monero. I'd rather not try to explain what that smell is


We all know @r0ach is still butthurt for selling BTC at $600 and buying silver.

I did not liquidate all btc for silver in 2015 or 2016.  Only this fool sidhujag keeps repeating that lie.  I dumped bitcoin around the peak before it collapsed during the halving then bought back lower and started buying silver a little later.  I'm STILL buying more silver every single week.  Here's my weekly silver order for this week paid for with bitcoins that were dumped at $2700:




And for not buying LTC at 0.006 when AnonyMint told him to

I actually bought LTC solely from the free money bull flag before I saw you say anything about it.  It was entirely a technical trade.

Lol and how many losses have you accrued from dumping majority of your coins at 600? Bitcoin on its way back up now since you sold out again and looks to make you into a bigger fool just like you looked like whe  it went to 3k after you sold at 700. But hey its only money.. not the end of the world. Happy hunting.
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July 18, 2017, 03:04:05 AM
 #3809

Quote from: r0ach
Perhaps the constant "hey guys, I don't really hate monero, but I hate monero!" posts.

Perpetually unhappy is the person who is pissed off when someone else gets laid or scores a few baskets. Not even Michael Jordan or Rockefeller can shut out his competition.

Many of my friends own some Monero. The entire crypto ecosystem is rising, thus we all rise together.

As for the final score and the championship, that is not complete yet.

Sentiments about certain attitudes will make more sense and be more clarified by and if ever certain actions are completed— better than any hollow words could express.

Quote from: r0ach
I actually bought LTC…

Backsplaining is not equivalent to the public prediction that came true.

Quote from: sidhujag
…He called the forming of a top in 2015.75 but prices have flown way higher from that point…

Another person who has not read every blog and every paid subscription report, attributing predictions to MA that he never made.
The 2015.75 was an ECM turning point and was the exact day that Russia entered the Syrian conflict.
It is not the real estate cycle (global nor USA which are separate cycles).

How would you feel if some idiot that does not understand programming started making a lot of false accusations about your Syscoin.
Up your game man and stop be a disingenuous twit.


@r0ach and @OROBTC, both Ag & Pt are not money, will never be even a currency again, and they are highly volatile commodities.
As the global economy implodes, commodities are going to nosedrive into the abyss. In short, both of you are making a big mistake.
Buy more crypto and hang on tight.
A little gold as a diversification, but your huge gains will come from crypto (yet also highly volatile).
Commodities highly volatile but no where near the gains of crypto and crypto has 1000X growth potential while commodities are only going to shrink as the global industrial age economy does (we are moving into Knowledge Age and do not tell me little bits of silver in mobile phones will make up for it).


Take a look at his rei charts. They all point to tops in 2015 with lows in 2016 and 2017. It clearly does the opposite of what he says. He also stated that rei is the focus of the ecm and that it is the biggest loser out of all of this. While we all can agree on what is coming noone can time it not.this guy not me and not you. Just the awareness of this fact saves you money and time.
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July 19, 2017, 11:23:29 AM
Last edit: July 19, 2017, 12:08:45 PM by r0ach
 #3810

Lol and how many losses have you accrued from dumping majority of your coins at 600? Bitcoin on its way back up now since you sold out again and looks to make you into a bigger fool just like you looked like whe  it went to 3k after you sold at 700. But hey its only money.. not the end of the world. Happy hunting.

How would you possibly know anything about what's in my bank account?  You just make up lie after lie pretending you're watching me from outside my window or something.  You know exactly zero about what I am or am not buying or selling.  So many idiots on this forum pretending that if you don't have 100% of your entire net worth in bitcoin that it's somehow a terrible idea.  In reality, that's about the dumbest possible thing you can do.  Even Anonymint agreed on that, that's it's nothing but a speculative asset, but now he's doing a 180 and claiming craptocurrency is the future of world civilization!!!111111

Newsflash:  if a craptocurrency such as bitcoin was the world reserve currency, you would be living in a dystopia.  Anyone who claims bitcoin is something other than a centralized rent seeking usury system is flat out lying. Even if these Orwellchains scaled in some manner to high TPS, they would still centralize under cartels, and the cartels are going to extort you for Paypal-style highway robbery no matter if the chain is 3 or 3000 TPS in the end.



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July 19, 2017, 07:42:19 PM
 #3811

...

Cryptocurrency does have an issue should Artificial Intelligence get menacing.  Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking have warned about the risks of AI.  An out of control AI would be a huge problem, I think all cryptos would be untrustworthy.

And THAT is just one issue we have to keep up to speed on.
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July 20, 2017, 02:09:57 AM
Last edit: July 20, 2017, 03:46:22 AM by sidhujag
 #3812

Lol and how many losses have you accrued from dumping majority of your coins at 600? Bitcoin on its way back up now since you sold out again and looks to make you into a bigger fool just like you looked like whe  it went to 3k after you sold at 700. But hey its only money.. not the end of the world. Happy hunting.

How would you possibly know anything about what's in my bank account?  You just make up lie after lie pretending you're watching me from outside my window or something.  You know exactly zero about what I am or am not buying or selling.  So many idiots on this forum pretending that if you don't have 100% of your entire net worth in bitcoin that it's somehow a terrible idea.  In reality, that's about the dumbest possible thing you can do.  Even Anonymint agreed on that, that's it's nothing but a speculative asset, but now he's doing a 180 and claiming craptocurrency is the future of world civilization!!!111111

Newsflash:  if a craptocurrency such as bitcoin was the world reserve currency, you would be living in a dystopia.  Anyone who claims bitcoin is something other than a centralized rent seeking usury system is flat out lying. Even if these Orwellchains scaled in some manner to high TPS, they would still centralize under cartels, and the cartels are going to extort you for Paypal-style highway robbery no matter if the chain is 3 or 3000 TPS in the end.



Nice chart first of all you cant transfer gold p2p its an iou and id rather keep fiat then. Hence gold standard being obolished.

I can tell by how you talk on here i explained it before to you. You give it away easily. One minute why arent the shadow bankers letting bitcoin go up? They are manipulators! I cry foul! To hey look bitcoin sucks buy gold and silver. Nothing different than trolling. But its totally normal. The fact that I proved you did sell out st 700 shows that I am right about you. You did not once say you sold I derived it from the intent of your posts as Ive dealt with you over time. Just now I proved that you did indeed sell out at $700 in your own words.  If thats not enough proof for you I dont know what is. You are flat out lying to say you hold a substantial amount of btc (maybe tiny bit of xmr i think) so dont try to insult my intelligence.

Crypto is a better form of money over metals anything else does not make sense. Gold does not have medium of exchange nor is it fungible if govr repatriates it and decides that some gold bars are to be confiscated. Crypto is engineered for the purpose of money. Soon as you understand the general principles of engineering you will realize why crypto will pay off in every way rather than hopium trades like gold. To spread baskets means pick one gold or crypto and others perhaps equities in the US. To me does not make sense to hold gold and crypto because crypto got it beat at its own game.

I have debunked you and every point you have ever made. You do not read material I post so therefor I cant really try to explain things to people who are close minded and stuck in their ways.
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July 20, 2017, 02:48:34 AM
 #3813

there is no way roach is buying silver here ... he's trying to unload his heavy baggage on bitcoin noobs most likely.

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July 20, 2017, 10:33:22 AM
Last edit: July 20, 2017, 10:45:27 AM by OROBTC
 #3814

there is no way roach is buying silver here ... he's trying to unload his heavy baggage on bitcoin noobs most likely.


There is no way I am buying silver here, it's too bulky...  It's hard for me to speak for other people.

I really do not understand the antipathy shown by crypto fans and precious metal fans (I am both), as they are naturally complementary as (at least partial) hedges vs. .gov fuckery.  Government is dangerous, BTC and gold (Pt and Ag to some extent as well, but those two have different fiundamentals than gold) are good diversification to maintain wealth.

Zero Hedge's contributor "The_Real_Fly" kicked off a nice set of comments on why BTC is better (safer) than Ethereum, worth a read:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-19/heres-why-i-know-bitcoin-and-ethereum-are-bubble-built-top-outright-scams

He hates both, but I like BTC's focus on being a currency, while Alt ICO's seem to be based on Ethereum.
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July 20, 2017, 03:54:04 PM
 #3815

The fact that I proved you did sell out st 700 shows that I am right about you.

LOL, I've never seen such a blatant liar in all my life.  I used to have 100% of my money in btc, then I decided it was a stupid idea to keep every cent in btc.  Does that mean I sold all of it?  No.  It's like me claiming that if you bought a sandwich with bitcoin that you sold all of it.

You also lie daily about bitcoin fundamentals.  It's not money, it's not anything.  This is what bitcoin is:

So I see BIP passed. Interesting, miners kept screwing with it till the wire.

It's called a pump and dump scam.  They painted a cup and handle that shouldn't exist then screwed with BIP signaling turning it off and on (like bitfury) to try and rig the market then turn it back on and pump trying to attract greater fools to chase their pump.  The only reason to dabble in the bitcoin market at all is to try and extract money from it to turn into physical gold or silver.  It's a completely centralized pump and dump scam at this point.  Not supporting a PoW change is completely idiotic when the centralized mining cartel does stuff like this right in front of your eyes in BOTH LTC + BTC segwit activation.

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July 20, 2017, 10:19:02 PM
 #3816

And another day of watching bitcoin scams in real-time:

Did anyone see this latest crypto scam?  Right as BIP91 looks ready to pass, Bologniex freezes Litecoin market out of the blue then immediately dumps it upon un-freeze (because BTC with segwit is probably bad for LTC). Looks like the type of shit you would see with people trading on their own exchange:



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sidhujag
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July 21, 2017, 03:15:46 AM
 #3817

The fact that I proved you did sell out st 700 shows that I am right about you.

LOL, I've never seen such a blatant liar in all my life.  I used to have 100% of my money in btc, then I decided it was a stupid idea to keep every cent in btc.  Does that mean I sold all of it?  No.  It's like me claiming that if you bought a sandwich with bitcoin that you sold all of it.

You also lie daily about bitcoin fundamentals.  It's not money, it's not anything.  This is what bitcoin is:

So I see BIP passed. Interesting, miners kept screwing with it till the wire.

It's called a pump and dump scam.  They painted a cup and handle that shouldn't exist then screwed with BIP signaling turning it off and on (like bitfury) to try and rig the market then turn it back on and pump trying to attract greater fools to chase their pump.  The only reason to dabble in the bitcoin market at all is to try and extract money from it to turn into physical gold or silver.  It's a completely centralized pump and dump scam at this point.  Not supporting a PoW change is completely idiotic when the centralized mining cartel does stuff like this right in front of your eyes in BOTH LTC + BTC segwit activation.
Sorry i cant take anything you say seriously anymore. Your just a troll to me.
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July 21, 2017, 11:19:24 AM
Last edit: July 21, 2017, 02:08:41 PM by Traxo
 #3818

Quote from: r0ach
@anonymint:  cryptocurrency is not money and will never be money.

Our little birdie is providing a free education.

Quote from: OROBTC
I really do not understand the antipathy shown by crypto fans and precious metal fans (I am both), as they are naturally complementary as (at least partial) hedges vs. .gov fuckery.

Little birdie says, “Metals are no longer a hedge but rather an albatross liability that will be worth 1/1000 of current value (inflation adjusted to crypto replacing the dollar). The education is free.”

Quote from: sidhujag
Take a look at his rei charts. They all point to tops in 2015 with lows in 2016 and 2017.

Liar.
Adjust the USA real estate prices by the massive rise in the dollar past couple of years then you will understand your error.

Quote from: sidhujag
He also stated that rei is the focus of the ecm

Little birdie says, “I asked you to please not make stupid nonsense about that which you have not read. When you are done reading all of his body of work, then we can talk. You can start here for example:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/future-forecasts/ecm/did-something-happen-of-the-ecm-turning-point/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1665943.msg16758919#msg16758919
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July 21, 2017, 02:22:43 PM
 #3819

Quote from: r0ach
@anonymint:  cryptocurrency is not money and will never be money.

Our little birdie is providing a free education.

Quote from: OROBTC
I really do not understand the antipathy shown by crypto fans and precious metal fans (I am both), as they are naturally complementary as (at least partial) hedges vs. .gov fuckery.

Little birdie says, “Metals are no longer a hedge but rather an albatross liability that will be worth 1/1000 of current value (inflation adjusted to crypto replacing the dollar). The education is free.”

Quote from: sidhujag
Take a look at his rei charts. They all point to tops in 2015 with lows in 2016 and 2017.

Liar.
Adjust the USA real estate prices by the massive rise in the dollar past couple of years then you will understand your error.

Quote from: sidhujag
He also stated that rei is the focus of the ecm

Little birdie says, “I asked you to please not make stupid nonsense about that which you have not read. When you are done reading all of his body of work, then we can talk. You can start here for example:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/future-forecasts/ecm/did-something-happen-of-the-ecm-turning-point/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1665943.msg16758919#msg16758919
Usa is not the world. Take a look at global index
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July 22, 2017, 01:56:10 AM
 #3820

I replied to the anonymint thread and this is why I'm anti-craptocurrency now, because they are debt based, rent seeking usury systems and my goal is to defeat that paradigm, not create a new obfuscated form of it.  Physical gold and silver commodity currency does this.  Cryptocurrency is nothing but an extension of the same system as now:

Quote from: r0ach
1)  Most of your argument revolves around the idea that humans are going into a "knowledge age" and cornering of capital and commodities is useless, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Being a slum lord in the future will always be just as profitable as in the past in a closed ecosystem (earth) of limited resources if you're able to defend said resources.

2)  The drop in commodity prices over time is not evidence heralding a "knowledge age", it's because humans discovered MASSIVELY cheap energy like when oil was cheaper than water in texas, and ever since this has been a game of nothing but arbing excess energy for materials, and now that energy is experiencing collapsing EROI so the arb game is up.

3)  Cryptocurrencies not only have no Schelling point, they have a reverse Schelling point because network effect assumes infinite scalability. As soon as the fees go up, people will be moving into the next coin to avoid usury, and all these networks are highly scaling constrained by design. Death by dilution is inevitable without scaling.

4)  Cryptocurrency doesn't function as a store of value because it's price floor is recursive based on it's own demand (in PoW). This means it's a complete house of cards in terms of so called value storage.
In commodities like silver, the ESF practices Keynesianism in the commodity markets and naked shorts them down to cost of production to try and keep their market caps as low as possible and prevent them from competing with the dollar. Why? Because nobody would submit to slavery via debt based scam currency at all unless you force them into it.

They can't short metals lower than cost of production because it would create scarcity and be counterintuitive to their goals. However, they can short bitcoin below cost of production because there is no real price floor, only a temporary, synthetic one. This in turn causes the miners to be forced to turn off (like KNC) and the synthetic floor crashes even more until the thing implodes to nothingness.

Another reason why craptocurrency is horrible and not a sound form of money. Metals like silver can be manipulated by shorts to contain their market cap, but bitcoin can actually be destroyed by them due to having no real floor.

5)  All cryptocurrencies are inherently rent seeking usury systems and a pseudo form of debt based currency if you will. The PoW chain does not just magically stay up on it's own, it requires a constant upkeep (rent). A peer to peer gold or silver transaction can be done with no overhead cost, but a cryptocurrency transaction always travels through the hands of the rent seekers and will cost > 0.

6)  The further you abstract money away from barter, the larger a scam it is

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