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1641  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory: System requirements? on: April 01, 2013, 01:48:24 AM
Thanks, I've gotten a bit further now.

I have Ubuntu 10.04 LTS installed on a DELL latitude. I've transferred the Armory_0.86.3_Offline_Ubuntu10.04-32bit.zip bundle to the DELL via a USB stick. I've unzipped the bundle.

I see a Install_All_Deps.sh script which I think i have to run(?), but double clicking opens it in gedit. I'm not sure how to proceed. Any further pointers appreciated.

EDIT: i got it going with the following.

Ctrl + Alt +t to open the terminal.
Code:
$ CD Desktop/Armory_0.86.3_Offline_Ubuntu10.04-32bit
$ sudo bash Install_All_Deps.sh

Oh, strange.  It should've popped up a window where it asks you how to open it.  You should select "Run in terminal."  Maybe I should rename that script to "Install_dbl_click_run_in_terminal.sh".
1642  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [BOUNTY] Armory Bugs: 0.2 BTC each on: April 01, 2013, 01:44:20 AM
Hello,

this

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bdbsk/bitcoin_client_developers_default_to_sending/

got me a bit worried about my paper backup I made with Armory a year ago.


If I make transactions with Armory, do I have to update my paper backup after each transaction to be sure all the change addresses are included?

How is Armory taking care of the change addresses? 

Is there also a limited amount of calculated addresses like it seems to be the case in the Bitcoin-QT client?


Thanks!

People lose coins because they get creative or they don't understand the system.  There's a very good reason we set it up the way we do.  And using the default behaviors of these clients will not result in coin loss, by design (though, I suppose bugs could still happen).

If you printed out a paper backup of your Armory wallet, it's good forever.  The piece of paper will let you generate any number of addresses (13 trillion if you wnat, but really almost-infinite).  Whenever you receive coins, Armory generates the next address in the chain for you.  When it needs to send change to itself, it generates the next address.  So you receive coins to address 1,000, then you click "Recieve Bitcoins" again, and you end up with address 1,001... then you send money which generates change, which is sent to 1,002, then you hit "Receive Bitcoins" again and you get 1,003.  It's all protected by your paper backup... forever.

The only thing that isn't protected by it is imported addresses.  And people lose coins because they think the default behavior should be for change to get sent back to the same address.  But that's a privacy SNAFU.  Every person you ever transact with can see your entire history, including your entire account balance.  For instance, if you have $1,019,032 in Bitcoins... every person you ever transact with knows that you have $1,019,032.  Not only that, but now they can watch you... if they see it jump to $10mil, they hire a hitman to take you out and take your coins.  I wouldn't want everyone I talk to to know the balances of all my bank accounts...

1643  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Anyone use raspberry pi with armory? NT on: March 31, 2013, 08:11:35 PM
I just got a request to cross-link some discussion in the newbie's thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=156003.msg1674928#msg1674928

Looks like good information!

Great thread, I'm wondering the same thing.

Also Can you point me to some document to show how making transaction of offline wallet technically works? I understand what it does, but i'm curious of how it does it. Especially the whole "sign" the transaction then relay it with the online watch-only wallet.

is it possible to run Amory offline on an Android device soon?


There's an Offline wallet tutorial which will soon be replaced with a illustrated tutorial (with screenshots).  You can think of it as:  your "watching-only wallet" is identical to a regular, the only difference is there's an "extra step" that has to be completed when you hit the "Send" button (it doesn't send right away, it will save a file to your USB key which you get signed by the offline computer and then bring it back and hit "Broadcast").

I'd love to support Android devices, but I don't have a secure file transfer mechanism for them.  The only way to really transfer data to it is through plugging it in via USB, but then it's filesystem becomes accessible to the online computer, which kind of defeats the purpose.  However, I will implement multi-sig, allowing you to link computer and phone -- then the computer simply emails/texts/QR-codes a half-signed transaction to the phone, the phone signs and broadcasts (after verification).  

Seriously, I would love to support Android offline signing devices, I just don't have a good way to it.  This is what this thread was about and one reason I really liked the audio-transfer solution ... it's just that it's too slow, and likely to destroy some hardware Sad
1644  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Advantage of coin control, response to Mike Hearn on: March 31, 2013, 07:04:22 PM
I understand (1) and (2), and I can understand hiding private keys with empty balances, but deleting them seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
Then let me explain. You are coming at it from the bitcoind or bitcoin-qt direction: What added features are needed? I am coming at it from the opposite direction: What is the minimum functionality needed for my granny to spend her money?

You are assuming that all of granny's privkeys reside in the software "wallet". I am assuming that the software is stateless, non-persistent, and contains no privkeys at all. It is empty. No addy/privkey pairs. None. When granny wants to spend some money, she chooses one of her privkeys from her secret hiding place, imports the privkey into the software, spends whatever money she wants to spend, and quits. Again, the software retains no persistent memory of her privkey. None. If she wants to track confirmations and/or balances, she can do it on the web.

You ask: "Well then, where is her secret hiding place where she keeps her privkeys?"

Granny answers: "Hah! You are the last person whom I would tell, young feller! They are hidden the same place where my other secret stuff is hidden. (Cackle!)"

Have fun explaining change addresses to granny.  And reminding her to take note of how much change was created, so she can manually update her documentation to make sure she knows how much each key has.

Also, at least until something like Ultimate Blockchain Compression is implemented, "importing" a private key is a disaster.  You either trust someone to tell you how much each address has, or wait 30 minutes for a blockchain scan to complete.  (right now, there is no way other than to do a blockchain scan).
1645  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Advantage of coin control, response to Mike Hearn on: March 31, 2013, 06:46:50 PM
You're joking right? Hmm maybe we should sell the "expert mode" powerup for money :-)
Great idea! I would definitely pay good money for a simple, single-purpose bc spender that enables:

(1) import a privkey
(2) spend from it
(3) delete the privkey

Nothing more. Everything else is superfluous complication that stops my granny from using bc. It need not even show the balances in my privkeys, since I can easily get this information on the web.

Three functions: import, spend, delete.

The only reason you call this utter simplicity "expert mode" is because you cannot resist throwing in many other functions that few uninterested-in-bitcoins end-users care about. Again, import, spend, delete. Do that--and nothing but that--and you can charge $30 a copy (especially if you make Android, Mac, and Windows versions.)

I'm not sure this embodies simplicity.  It embodies simplicity once you understand private keys, but I'd like to hide user-handling-private-key-data entirely (because they're likely to not realize it's different the addresses which are okay to send to your friends).  They should make a backup of their wallet and told to keep it secure, but that's it.  Beyond that, the way forward is "Wallets" and "Balances".  I'd almost be in favor of referring to addresses as "one-time payment codes", to even hide the "addresses" concept to users that only care about how many BTC they have.  A user has a wallet, and balances on each of those wallets.  Combined with "wait 2+ conf for small payments, 6+ confirmations for huge payments", this is enough for users new to Bitcoin to actually be functional.  This is what I want to see in the Satoshi client.  And eventually in the "Standard" usermode in Armory.  

For now, it sounds like Bitcoin-Qt and Multibit and Electrum are going to work on that user-frieindliness aspect.  Armory, bitcoind, and electrum-CLI are going to work on that advanced user aspect.
1646  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Advantage of coin control, response to Mike Hearn on: March 31, 2013, 04:10:12 PM
@Mike

Look how mozilla solved your "dumb user" problem. Show a big warning, and if the user proceeds, that is his responsibility if he breaks something or loses money.

(img)

*Learn from the best*

Let's not bash on Mike too much.  I sympathize with his position -- also coming from the development side, I know how hard/frustrating it is to meet the demands of users for features that may be transient requests, for functionality that seems like it can provided in other ways (spend a week implementing it, then a month later it's obsolete by the other features you put in that serve the same purpose, or the original users don't find it that exciting after all).  It's part of the reason I didn't do coin control for so long -- I didn't even know how to design it because I didn't understand what users wanted or why they wanted it.  How is it supposed to be on my priority list when it has such little value to myself?

In this case, the OP made a specific argument, and I agree with Mike that the specific request by OP is "addressed" by other solutions.  But I think OP, like so many other users, just want the level of control they understand is possible, and he tried to justify it with that particular example that Mike disagrees with.  Everyone is "right" here:  the fee logic should be updated to favor reducing UTXO set size, clients will adapt to the new rules by favoring reducing UTXOs, and users should have control over the source addresses/coins anyway, because some of them prefer to use their knowledge to optimize coin selection for their specific needs on a per-transaction basis, better than the default logic included in the app, and such advanced features should be hidden in the default installation of the app.

1647  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Advantage of coin control, response to Mike Hearn on: March 31, 2013, 03:15:24 PM
Maybe I am missing something.  Does Armory have this already?  Why do you want a change to the Bitcoin software if this be done by a wallet or plugin that sits on top of the main software? 

Armory lets you control the source addresses, not the individual coins (but still called "Coin Control").  People requested "Coin control", I gave them that, and I haven't really heard any complaints.  So I left it alone.

1648  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Advantage of coin control, response to Mike Hearn on: March 31, 2013, 02:29:18 PM
That is indeed a useful thing, but coin control is the wrong way to do it (which is what I've been getting at all along).

Automatically defragmenting wallets are something that has been discussed, at least on IRC, quite a few times.  As long as miners are willing to bias their priority calculations towards transactions that reduce the size of the UTXO set it can make sense. Not only when you create new payments, but for example at night time if your wallet is open (or on an always-on device like an android).

My point about coin control is that whatever problem you're solving with it, you can usually see a better solution that works for more people.

And my point, based on experience, taking feature requests from hundreds of users and trying to negotiate things in designing Armory... some users just want control.  I agree with you that the fee logic could be updated to favor cleaning up dust.  But that's not the only reason people use it (though, it might be the base for the OP, here).  The advanced folks who understand how it works under the hood *want control".  It's the same reason I will always drive a manual-transmission even though automatic technically does the same thing for me.
1649  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Advantage of coin control, response to Mike Hearn on: March 31, 2013, 06:51:04 AM

For something like coin control, parts were merged already, but the GUI wasn't. Well, honestly, if I was maintaining a wallet (I'm not) I wouldn't merge it either. We should be trying to make Bitcoin easier to use and less nerdy, not exposing the guts of the protocol in the UI. Rather I'd want to figure out a list of what people are using the coin control gui for - find a list of use cases then encourage people to implement them in a more direct way. Is this a privacy thing? Is it an accounting thing? Both? Neither? There's probably a better way to solve those problems.




This post is intended to be factual, and answer for what people use coin control for.  Yes it can help a privacy.  But it can make micro-payments (dust) more profitable for the user.

Say a user has 1.02 BTC at one address and .00012381 at another.  When the user wants to pay .2 BTC to another a transaction can be made that draws both inputs and yields the .2 payment output and a .82012381 change output.  This allows a user to merge micro-payments into spendable outputs.  Do this several times and much BTC in fees could be saved making the .00012381 payment worthwhile. 

As far as I'm concerned, the answer is splitting the interface into usermodes.  That's why Armory has a "Standard", "Advanced" and "Expert" usermode.  Custom change addresses and coin-control only appear if the user explicitly changes the mode to "Expert."  It's a very elegant solution to making these "manual-transmission" features available while still giving most users the automatic transmission.

Although it's easiest if the windows are laid out in code.   Then in the code you say: 

Code:
layout = QVBoxLayout
layout.addWidget(button1)
layout.addWidget(button2) 
if usermode=="Expert":
   layout.addWidget(button3)
1650  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Private keys, 256 bits? on: March 30, 2013, 04:32:38 PM
Bitcoin uses ECDSA.

This.

ECDSA was picked for Bitcoin because it has much shorter keylengths than other digital signing scheme/crypto schemes.   For instance, all the following keylengths are approximately equal in terms of mathematical entropy:

--3,072-bit RSA key
--256-bit ECDSA key
--128-bit AES key

There is no doubt that an AES 128 key is sufficient protection, probably for decades, if not longer (protection against well-funded attacker with a billion dollars of computing resources)
1651  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory: System requirements? on: March 30, 2013, 01:47:35 PM
It's the link in the "Get Armory"-->"Linux – Offline Bundle for Ubuntu 10.04-32bit" section, under "Ubuntu release page" (http://releases.ubuntu.com/lucid/).  Grab the "PC (Intel x86)" version.

If you get that one, you're guaranteed the offline bundle will work.
1652  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Help with first round of Armory 0.88 testing (Windows 64-bit!) on: March 29, 2013, 07:02:20 PM
It doesn't work for me. I'm running Windows Server 2008 R2 64bit. bitcoind is launched automatically, blockchain is synchanized, but armory keeps saying "initializing bitcoin engine". I change it to the traditional mode but it keeps saying offline while bitcoin-qt is running. I have moved back to 0.87.2 and everything work as usual

Man, this is not going smoothly!  Are you using an non-standard configuration of any sort?  Can you send me a log file? 
1653  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Help with first round of Armory 0.88 testing (Windows 64-bit!) on: March 29, 2013, 05:29:06 PM
Crap, I guess I need to catch that condition!  At least I have access to that output so I can interpret the error message.

Also, having the bitcoind.exe in that directory is not normal.  It should be in the daemon directory.  I wonder if that's an ancient version of bitcoind.exe...?
1654  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Help with first round of Armory 0.88 testing (Windows 64-bit!) on: March 29, 2013, 05:16:40 PM
Gah!  I see the error, and not sure why it happened.  It looks like it's trying to run a non-existent bitcoind.exe.  Can you point it to the correct location in the settings file? 
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\daemon\
Run it in offline mode to be able to open and change the settings.  Then continue testing. 

This is actually a wacky bug, because it's not supposed to try running BITCOIND_PATH unless it checks that it exists.  But somehow it found a non-existent one on your system!  I'll double-check the logic to see how that happened.


Nope, the bitcoind path is correct. It's not working even after explicitly setting it in the config. I'll keep on trying

The log file shows this:

Code:
Using: C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\bitcoind.exe

Does that file exist for you?
1655  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Help with first round of Armory 0.88 testing (Windows 64-bit!) on: March 29, 2013, 05:11:08 PM
Gah!  I see the error, and not sure why it happened.  It looks like it's trying to run a non-existent bitcoind.exe.  Can you point it to the correct location in the settings file? 
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\daemon\
Run it in offline mode to be able to open and change the settings.  Then continue testing. 

This is actually a wacky bug, because it's not supposed to try running BITCOIND_PATH unless it checks that it exists.  But somehow it found a non-existent one on your system!  I'll double-check the logic to see how that happened.

1656  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Help with first round of Armory 0.88 testing (Windows 64-bit!) on: March 29, 2013, 04:45:42 PM
Windows 64-bit users:  there's now a Windows version available for "testing".

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1139081/ArmoryTestingReleases/armory_0.87.8-testing_win64.msi

I say "testing" because this is really just a sanity check -- it's still fairly rough around in edges, in terms of accommodating all the different configurations.  If you are not upgraded to 0.8.1 yet, uninstall Bitcoin-Qt and install the new Armory and let it download and install the new one for you (yes, there's cryptographic verification to make sure you're getting the right files! see the top of versions.txt).  Let me know how the process goes! 

There will be issues.  Please help find them!  One issue I'm concerned about (but haven't seen happen recently), is Armory closing and leaving bitcoind.exe running in the background.  That shouldn't happen anymore, but I can't know for sure until people try it.  If it does happen, please tell me what you did.  I don't want to have to add a "kill" button to the dashboard, but I'm ready to if necessary Undecided

This has taken way too much time, but I'm fairly certain it's almost done!  Help me test it!
1657  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: 0.5BTC Bounty for anyone able to walk me through getting my paper wallet setup on: March 29, 2013, 01:55:10 PM
I think i have just been recommended Ubuntu but I suppose this is not a must-have.

So will i need to buy a PC for the online computer too?

Thing is I have been a mac user for years and iI can't even find my way around Windows. lol

There will be mac binaries soon.  We just recently figured out how to package it.  If you want to do it right now, though, you would have to follow Red Emerald's brew formula (which involves opening a terminal and typing a few commands).  Obviously, the package would be better, but it's not ready yet.

You can use any OS online and any OS offline that runs Armory.  The data moving between them is platform-independent.

For the system without an OS, I recommend installing Ubuntu 10.04-32bit and using the offline bundle (which can be found here).  The reason for that is that if you want the offline computer to never touch the internet then you need to have a few dependencies installed in Linux for Armory to work right (that's what the offline bundle has).

If there's no DVD drive, you can make a bootable USB key installer.  You could use your 16 GB key once, wipe it just to get the OS installed, then go back to using it for other things.  Download Ubuntu 10.04-32bit CD image (the "PC (Intel x86)" link at the top).  If making the USB installer in Linux, you can find the "Startup Disk Creator" application (google for it for your particular linux version), if you have access to a windows machine I recommend unetbootin for making the USB.  If mac... I don't recommend doing that in Mac, as I just googled it and it looks like it can be complicated (but here's a link so you can try).

The nice thing about the offline bundle is:  once you have Linux installed and you copy the offline bundle onto that system, you just run the install script and Armory works.  That's it!  
1658  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory - Discussion Thread on: March 28, 2013, 06:32:27 PM
Ok after a reboot and another 10 minute scan it synced up.  You still want to see a log file sir?

Why not?  Smiley   If it doesn't work right, even a few percent of the time, I should still investigate.
1659  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory - Discussion Thread on: March 28, 2013, 06:15:02 PM
Armory crashed on me and now it has been scanning the block chain for over 20 minutes.  Kaspersky is reporting problems with python27.dll.  What is going on.  I can't get to the wallet that I just deposited to? 

Try loading Armory in offline mode (there's a link in your Start menu), and then export a log file for me.  Email or PM.

Of course, you can try stopping it and starting it again.  Sometimes, it just gets stuck scanning (though quite infrequently... it's usually just being slow).   There's a few known stability issues, that result in Armory crashing every week or so.  When the new blockchain utilities go in, that will go away.

1660  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Minimum Specs for an only offline computer to run armoury and paper wallets on: March 28, 2013, 03:59:58 PM
Don't forget the Quick Start Guide!
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