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You are just looking at this from a wrong perspective, thus the illusion you experience.
Your approach of "x 4 weeks monthly" is putting your view at the misleading angle.
There are 4 separate investments, 1000 each, and you never pay all of them at the same time, but only one per week.
That is why you don't need to have 4000 in BS&T - you only need to have as much as needed for the next week's payment...
And as you see at the chart, which you helped me to correct, 3000 is enough to perpetually handle all the weekly payments
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The chart is wrong for the interest part! You're retrieving 310 x 4 monthly = 1240 interest when 31% x 3000 in BS&T earns you 930 monthly.
You're receiving 1310 per month back on 1000 every four week, yes!
But that 3000 BTC fully rotates every 3 weeks instead of 4!
You can't earn the full interest for 1000 with 4 actives (interest on a full 4000) while having 3000 in BS&T
OK - I give up with you, but just for the record: you are wrong. "The interest part" - that's a part of the illusion they are selling.  |
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NO! Because there would only be 3000 left in BS&T!
You can't earn that 31% for 1000 on four PPT.X (1000 each) at the same time while just having three 1000 slices in the account earning you interest! You need the full 4000. Otherwise you take one whole slice out that's supposed to earn that 310 BTC interest monthly. You're effectivly having 750 BTC working per PPT.X!
3000 x 31% in 4 weeks = 930 earned every 4 weeks
Dividends paid each week = 280, x4 weeks = 1120 paid weekly.
It does not work.
YES! How is the chart wrong? |
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But everything else on the chart is right, isn't it? Week no | Depositor of 1000 BTC | Insurance Fund | BTC in BS&T | Withdraw from BS&T for 1000 BTC deposited 4 weeks ago
=============================================================================================================================
0 | PPT shareholders | 0 BTC | 1000 BTC | -
I didn't want to comment, but you asked politely. The first row is incorrect, as the 1000 BTC was not placed in BS&T, but 1280 BTC placed in the fund. It doesn't change anything. Either way you were able to withdraw your initial capital at exactly the same moment; after the first PPT.D got sold. |
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To be able to retrieve that 1310 weekly, you need to have a full 4000 BTC No you don't. You only need to put 1000 into BS&T every week, to withdraw 1310 every week 4 weeks later. How is the chart wrong? |
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Well then everywhere after on the chart, only 3000 BTC are in BS&T at any time, meaning there's not the 4000 sitting there garnering the 310 BTC monthly interest. That's the whole point to not have 4000 in BS&T, but only 3000. Each 1000 BTC works separately, for its 1310 BTC to be withdrawn 4 weeks later. So maybe try to tell me where is the chart wrong now? |
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ONLY 310 bitcoins are the interest, the rest is 1000 removed from BS&T for 1000 being added, it STAYS 3000 BT&T like at week 3. There's a 1310 removal for a 1000 in. BS&T funds will stay the same like between week 4 & 5 & 6... That chart is not right. You're right. "BTC in BS&T" never goes to 4000, but stays at 3000 BTC. Thank you for correcting me. But everything else on the chart is correct - right? Week no | Depositor of 1000 BTC | Insurance Fund | BTC in BS&T | Withdraw from BS&T for 1000 BTC deposited 4 weeks ago
=============================================================================================================================
0 | PPT shareholders | 0 BTC | 1000 BTC | -
1 | Buyers of PPT.A | 1000 BTC | 1000 BTC | -
2 | Buyers of PPT.B | 1000 BTC | 2000 BTC | -
3 | Buyers of PPT.C | 1000 BTC | 3000 BTC | -
4 | Buyers of PPT.D | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 280 BTC to the Fund, initial 1000 + new 30 BTC back to PPT shareholders
5 | Buyers of PPT.E | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
6 | Buyers of PPT.A | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
7 | Buyers of PPT.B | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
8 | Buyers of PPT.C | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
9 | Buyers of PPT.D | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
10 | Buyers of PPT.E | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
11 | Buyers of PPT.A | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
12 | Buyers of PPT.B | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
13 | Buyers of PPT.C | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
14 | Buyers of PPT.D | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
15 | Buyers of PPT.E | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
... and so on ... |
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Another thing that is interesting, BTW of discussing this matter, are the tags on the forum. If somebody borrows 5 BTC and doesn't give it back - he gets a SCAMMER tag. But when a bunch of people sells a fake insurance, earning hundreds of bitcoins with this - these are VIP, Donator, Senior Hero Members...  |
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The risk the PPT lenders took was in the 1st rounds of bonds.If pirate defaulted then the insurance would have come from their pocket. Obviously ,after a while they made profit which now is more than enough to pay for the insurance. Whats wrong with that? As far as buyers are concerned, at any given moment they buy a PPT bond they are sure they will get back at least 0.32 and they don't care about all your intricate calculations.
What's wrong is the interest rate. After they got back the initial capital and the business has been risk-free for them, there is no justification for the PPT bonds to have an extra low interest rate, comparing to the other PPT bonds. So my guess is that if anyone buys their bonds at 1.04+, it's only because he got mislead by the illusion of the "free insurance". They parasitize on a stupidity of unconscious suckers who they managed to delude with the free insurance propaganda. |
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It's really amazing that one can run such a lucrative business without having in idea of what it is about Unless you just keep playing stupid, with the hope to delude more unconscious suckers... Later today I will try to explain again, this time week-by-week, how your initial capital in the "insurance fund" got replaced by money from the cycling auctions, and how it happened that you are not holding there any risk anymore... So stay tuned. Can you shut up please? You're starting to sound like that time cube idiot. Good morning, It's going to be such a nice day. Who said that I was angry? Nothing like that - I'm actually enjoying this conversation with the smartest guys in the bitcoin world  Unfortunately I see that you still haven't got it and you are still barking at the postman. Despite of all my efforts - what a shame. And I even made such a nice table for you - having it I just cannot imagine how much easier could it be for an idiot to understand the root of the "free insurance" scam. But well, nobody is perfect and since you are so smart, I can only guess that you just didn't read carefully enough. So just let me repeat it one more time, because I believe that it is quite simple and one day you will eventually get it. And on that day I will shut up - so suddenly that I am even already saying: you're welcome Week no | Depositor of 1000 BTC | BTC in The Fund | BTC in BS&T | Withdraw from BS&T for 1000 BTC deposited 4 weeks ago
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0 | PPT shareholders | 0 BTC | 1000 BTC | -
1 | Buyers of PPT.A | 1000 BTC | 1000 BTC | -
2 | Buyers of PPT.B | 1000 BTC | 2000 BTC | -
3 | Buyers of PPT.C | 1000 BTC | 3000 BTC | -
4 | Buyers of PPT.D | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 280 BTC to the Fund, initial 1000 + new 30 BTC back to PPT shareholders
5 | Buyers of PPT.E | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
6 | Buyers of PPT.A | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
7 | Buyers of PPT.B | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
8 | Buyers of PPT.C | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
9 | Buyers of PPT.D | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
10 | Buyers of PPT.E | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
11 | Buyers of PPT.A | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
12 | Buyers of PPT.B | 1280 BTC | 3000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
... and so on... So, as you can see on the picture above, already at week 4 the PPT bonds business was a risk-free, perpetual 3% / week profit. And now they became so greedy and impertinent (justifying it with the "free insurance" propaganda) that they forced 7% / week from this risk-free investment. BTW, even ButrW agreed (in the other thread) that they don't pay for the "insurance", but the bond-buyers are insuring the bonds... So I understand that you are jumping at me, because you don't like strange people coming from nowhere to expose your cheeky scams, but why are you arguing with him? |
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And again you conveniently forget to consider opportunity cost.
Opportunity cost?  WTF is this? May I ask you, our genius, how much the opportunity costs in this case? Is it more than your car's annual insurance? Please educate mi about the "opportunity cost", because I'm such an idiot who has no idea about the complex stuff around it. I should have studied economy in America instead of computers in Europe - maybe then I would be at least half as smart as you are |
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Later today I will try to explain again, this time week-by-week, how your initial capital in the "insurance fund" got replaced by money from the cycling auctions, and how it happened that you are not holding there any risk anymore... So stay tuned.
As promised, here is how it works, assuming the worst case scenario, in which all the bonds are sold at 1.00 BTC. For simplification and better understanding I will use 1000, instead of 3000, for weekly deposits / new bonds. I hope you don't need a prove that this schema works just as well with other amounts? I'm asking this because your stupidity has already surprised me at least once, so I never know... Anyway, here is how it works: Week no | Depositor of 1000 BTC | BTC in The Fund | BTC in BS&T | Withdraw from BS&T for 1000 BTC deposited 4 weeks ago
=============================================================================================================================
0 | PPT shareholders | 0 BTC | 1000 BTC | -
1 | Buyers of PPT.A | 1000 BTC | 1000 BTC | -
2 | Buyers of PPT.B | 1000 BTC | 2000 BTC | -
3 | Buyers of PPT.C | 1000 BTC | 3000 BTC | -
4 | Buyers of PPT.D | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 280 BTC to the Fund, 1030 BTC to PPT shareholders
5 | Buyers of PPT.E | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
6 | Buyers of PPT.A | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
7 | Buyers of PPT.B | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
8 | Buyers of PPT.C | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
9 | Buyers of PPT.D | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
10 | Buyers of PPT.E | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
11 | Buyers of PPT.A | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
12 | Buyers of PPT.B | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
13 | Buyers of PPT.C | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
14 | Buyers of PPT.D | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
15 | Buyers of PPT.E | 1280 BTC | 4000 BTC | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
... and so on ... As you can see, at week 4 the initial investment was already returned to the PPT shareholders while the fund required to handle all the insurance is still there. So the first 1000 BTC was exposed to the risk only for the first 4 weeks. Later you simply withdraw the initial capital because the bonds self-insure themselves. |
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Interesting: in the event of a BS&T default, we pay out 3860 coins to bond holders. Collectively we can demonstrate the blockchain transactions and the address where these coins sit (Burt had this somewhere). This is obviously not a penny.
You have no honor whatsoever. If BS&T defaults today, you will just use the coins provided to you during the auction 5 weeks ago and recently withdrawn in the amount of 3932 BTC. Just cut off the crap and stop deluding people with "funds" and "transactions" - I don't give a shit about the details of your bookkeeping. Obviously you do not care about the bookkeeping and transactions - it makes the story less interesting. In the event of a default, the coins from the auction invested into BS&T are gone. I am not sure where you think this magical extra set of coins appears from as any "spare" is paid out in profits. If we were running a five week cycle that might work, but would still require approximately 4000 coins more than customers have provided. As for honour, I do not need to attest my own position. It's really amazing that one can run such a lucrative business without having in idea of what it is about Unless you just keep playing stupid, with the hope to delude more unconscious suckers... Later today I will try to explain again, this time week-by-week, how your initial capital in the "insurance fund" got replaced by money from the cycling auctions, and how it happened that you are not holding there any risk anymore... So stay tuned. |
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Interesting: in the event of a BS&T default, we pay out 3860 coins to bond holders. Collectively we can demonstrate the blockchain transactions and the address where these coins sit (Burt had this somewhere). This is obviously not a penny.
You have no honor whatsoever. If BS&T defaults today, you will just use the coins provided to you during the auction 5 weeks ago and recently withdrawn in the amount of 3932 BTC. Just cut off the crap and stop deluding people with big words like "funds" and "transactions" - I don't give a shit about the details of your bookkeeping. |
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Truth is a powerful weapon and I have this weapon now, not hesitating to use it. The reason why people are saying you are stupid is because you don't really have truth. You have your best guess and nothing more. And you really don't know any more than anyone else. Please do yourself a favor and just shut up. You really do sound like a fool pretending you know the truth. There is no truth because no one knows anything. Please stop polluting the forums. You've had your say. That was enough. Now it's just noise pollution. Oh, give me a break. Enough "free insurance" propaganda has been sold already, so don't embarrass yourself by pleasing the crooks. I do know the truth. The truth is: the insurance if only an illusion. I already explained what the illusion is about, in a way that even the worst idiot would have understood. But if you don't get it, then I'm sorry for you - there is nothing more I can help you with, so just go buy yourself some more insurance, since I really don't care about all the deluded unconscious suckers, especially those that bark at the postman. I pay $600 per year to insure my car. Each year for the past 15 years, my insurance company has not paid me a single cent. Should I go to my insurance company and demand my money back because the "insurance is only an illusion"? Why would I care how much you pay to insure your car? What does it have to do with the topic? Insurance, by definition, involves a risk for the insurer. No risk = no insurance. If too many cars are stolen/crashed one year, your insurance company can loose money and even go bankrupt. Whereas in this case the PPT holders are not holding any risk. After BS&T defaults they don't loose a penny to pay out the insurance for the PPT.x bonds. But you still don't get it, do you? The insurer here is the previous buyers of the PPT.x bonds - not the PPT holders, who are now only collecting 100% risk-free fees. The PPT shareholders are not exposed to any risk here, so there is no reason for the PPT bonds to have an extra low interest rate.And now they suddenly want to force a lower interest rate, by setting the min acceptable bid to 1.04, justifying it with a statement that "their bonds are insured"... How stupid one needs to be to buy such a crap? |
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The insurance is not free and we never said it was free - our customers pay for the insurance. You have made your point in all of our threads, several times, we get it. That's great. I'm glad that after 2 days we finally got to some common conclusion. I'm done with this topic, like I was done with it already 2 days ago, after making my point the first time. Unless someone else wants so express his opinion about how stupid and misinforming I am? In which case I am happy to continue with him... Because no matter how many times I have made my point, don't expect me to sit quiet while I am being insulted by some moron or a crook. |
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However, you are absolutely correct about using a fixed withdrawal address and only allow changing of the withdrawal address by signing the statement with the previous withdrawal address.
I'm glad we agree on it. @payb.tc, could you please commit to such a security procedure? I will be sleeping much better after you do... |
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Thanks guys for the quotes.  I was just wondering -if- our forums get compromised again then someone could easily send in a withdrawal request for me. Then he may as well replace the PGP key in your signature. I think a better protection is to fix your withdrawal address and never allow to use a different one while requesting a withdrawal. Eventually payb.tc could have also required you to sign the withdrawal request with the withdrawal address - and such level of security would be sufficient for me. |
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Our insurance fund is not deposited at BS&T. I never said that I was going to deposit your first 1000 BTC at BS&T. I was only going to use it to insure my current 1000 BTC deposit... This way when Pirat runs away with my money, I will have your 1000 BTC, from which I will give you 310 BTC while keeping remaining 690 BTC for myself... If Pirate doesn't run away with the money, I will just give you back 1240, keeping my initial 1000 BTC and the 70+ BTC extra from the weekly compounded interests. Either way I win: in fist case I get a free 69% insurance, in second case I get 7% monthly interest. Now, if I start cycling it, accepting a new 1000 BTC each new week, while putting the previous one into BS&T - it will eventually become 100% insurance for my deposit, while still holding it at 7% monthly... You are not considering opportunity cost. You 69% insurance is not free. It comes at the cost of lower earnings, i.e., getting only 7% every four weeks instead of 31%. Of course 7% is less than 31%, but if you can get it 100% insured by the buyers of the cycling bonds (which PPT has already managed to do), then it is a great 7%/month, risk-free business, isn't it? And I don't have a problem with it. What I do have a problem with is the propaganda campaign aimed to delude more suckers into believing that they get a "free insurance", because the PPT holders are generously giving it to them risking own capital... Yeah, sure - just how stupid one needs to be to buy it? Shame on them, for selling lies like that, instead of just admitting the truth. |
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Truth is a powerful weapon and I have this weapon now, not hesitating to use it. The reason why people are saying you are stupid is because you don't really have truth. You have your best guess and nothing more. And you really don't know any more than anyone else. Please do yourself a favor and just shut up. You really do sound like a fool pretending you know the truth. There is no truth because no one knows anything. Please stop polluting the forums. You've had your say. That was enough. Now it's just noise pollution. Oh, give me a break. Enough "free insurance" propaganda has been sold already, so don't embarrass yourself by pleasing the crooks. I do know the truth. The truth is: the insurance if only an illusion. I already explained what the illusion is about, in a way that even the worst idiot would have understood. But if you don't get it, then I'm sorry for you - there is nothing more I can help you with, so just go buy yourself some more insurance, since I really don't care about all the deluded unconscious suckers, especially those that bark at the postman. |
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