.

[roomservice]

Awesome, just picked up all those remaining shares!

[Sukrim]

Congratulations - had you been buying + selling uninsured pass-throughs instead (which are available at bargain prices atm) you could have bought many more PPT.X shares next week. Your only bet has to be that pirate really pays out this coming monday still.
(Edit: any if you don't believe in this, why are you buying binds that are not 100% or higher insured?!)

Anyways, it's always interesting to see public opinion about pirate measured weekly in such a direct way.

[brendio]

Truth is a powerful weapon and I have this weapon now, not hesitating to use it.

The reason why people are saying you are stupid is because you don't really have truth. You have your best guess and nothing more. And you really don't know any more than anyone else.

Please do yourself a favor and just shut up. You really do sound like a fool pretending you know the truth.

There is no truth because no one knows anything. Please stop polluting the forums. You've had your say. That was enough. Now it's just noise pollution.

Oh, give me a break. Enough "free insurance" propaganda has been sold already, so don't embarrass yourself by pleasing the crooks.

I do know the truth.
The truth is: the insurance if only an illusion.
I already explained what the illusion is about, in a way that even the worst idiot would have understood.
But if you don't get it, then I'm sorry for you - there is nothing more I can help you with, so just go buy yourself some more insurance, since I really don't care about all the deluded unconscious suckers, especially those that bark at the postman.

I pay $600 per year to insure my car. Each year for the past 15 years, my insurance company has not paid me a single cent. Should I go to my insurance company and demand my money back because the "insurance is only an illusion"?

[MrTeal]

Oh, give me a break. Enough "free insurance" propaganda has been sold already, so don't embarrass yourself by pleasing the crooks.

I do know the truth.
The truth is: the insurance if only an illusion.
I already explained what the illusion is about, in a way that even the worst idiot would have understood.
But if you don't get it, then I'm sorry for you - there is nothing more I can help you with, so just go buy yourself some more insurance, since I really don't care about all the deluded unconscious suckers, especially those that bark at the postman.

I pay $600 per year to insure my car. Each year for the past 15 years, my insurance company has not paid me a single cent. Should I go to my insurance company and demand my money back because the "insurance is only an illusion"?

Let me know if this works, I could get back a bundle on unused house insurance.

[piotr_n]

Truth is a powerful weapon and I have this weapon now, not hesitating to use it.

The reason why people are saying you are stupid is because you don't really have truth. You have your best guess and nothing more. And you really don't know any more than anyone else.

Please do yourself a favor and just shut up. You really do sound like a fool pretending you know the truth.

There is no truth because no one knows anything. Please stop polluting the forums. You've had your say. That was enough. Now it's just noise pollution.

Oh, give me a break. Enough "free insurance" propaganda has been sold already, so don't embarrass yourself by pleasing the crooks.

I do know the truth.
The truth is: the insurance if only an illusion.
I already explained what the illusion is about, in a way that even the worst idiot would have understood.
But if you don't get it, then I'm sorry for you - there is nothing more I can help you with, so just go buy yourself some more insurance, since I really don't care about all the deluded unconscious suckers, especially those that bark at the postman.

I pay $600 per year to insure my car. Each year for the past 15 years, my insurance company has not paid me a single cent. Should I go to my insurance company and demand my money back because the "insurance is only an illusion"?

Why would I care how much you pay to insure your car?
What does it have to do with the topic?

Insurance, by definition, involves a risk for the insurer. No risk = no insurance.
If too many cars are stolen/crashed one year, your insurance company can loose money and even go bankrupt.
Whereas in this case the PPT holders are not holding any risk. After BS&T defaults they don't loose a penny to pay out the insurance for the PPT.x bonds.
But you still don't get it, do you?

The insurer here is the previous buyers of the PPT.x bonds - not the PPT holders, who are now only collecting 100% risk-free fees.
The PPT shareholders are not exposed to any risk here, so there is no reason for the PPT bonds to have an extra low interest rate.
And now they suddenly want to force a lower interest rate, by setting the min acceptable bid to 1.04, justifying it with a statement that "their bonds are insured"...
How stupid one needs to be to buy such a crap?

[PatrickHarnett]

Interesting: in the event of a BS&T default, we pay out 3860 coins to bond holders.  Collectively we can demonstrate the blockchain transactions and the address where these coins sit (Burt had this somewhere).  This is obviously not a penny (actually around $26,000).

I suspect the transactions, which are quite simple, are not clear.  Let me try to explain.

1: PPT raised 3860 BTC to serve as an insurance fund.
2: PPT.x buyers bid for bonds running for four weeks paying 1.28
3: Any surplus (profit) is paid to PPT.DIV holders.

PPT.x buyers do not pay explicitly for insurance.  Any premium they pay, and profit generated is paid to the PPT.DIV holders.
In the event of a BS&T default, irrespective of the progress through a PPT/x cycle, the bonds are guaranteed to pay 0.32 per bond where any other pass through bond pays zero.  The founders of PPT will be out of pocket 3860 coins (USD4300 each).
The change in floor price has been well explained related to the change to BS&T interest rates.  That change was not made with a justification that the bonds carry partial insurance against default.

[piotr_n]

Interesting: in the event of a BS&T default, we pay out 3860 coins to bond holders.  Collectively we can demonstrate the blockchain transactions and the address where these coins sit (Burt had this somewhere).  This is obviously not a penny.

You have no honor whatsoever.

If BS&T defaults today, you will just use the coins provided to you during the auction 5 weeks ago and recently withdrawn in the amount of 3932 BTC.
Just cut off the crap and stop deluding people with big words like "funds" and "transactions" - I don't give a shit about the details of your bookkeeping.

[PatrickHarnett]

Interesting: in the event of a BS&T default, we pay out 3860 coins to bond holders.  Collectively we can demonstrate the blockchain transactions and the address where these coins sit (Burt had this somewhere).  This is obviously not a penny.

You have no honor whatsoever.

If BS&T defaults today, you will just use the coins provided to you during the auction 5 weeks ago and recently withdrawn in the amount of 3932 BTC.
Just cut off the crap and stop deluding people with "funds" and "transactions" - I don't give a shit about the details of your bookkeeping.

Obviously you do not care about the bookkeeping and transactions - it makes the story less interesting.

In the event of a default, the coins from the auction invested into BS&T are gone.  I am not sure where you think this magical extra set of coins appears from as any "spare" is paid out in profits.  If we were running a five week cycle that might work, but would still require approximately 4000 coins more than customers have provided.

As for honour, I do not need to attest my own position.

[piotr_n]

Interesting: in the event of a BS&T default, we pay out 3860 coins to bond holders.  Collectively we can demonstrate the blockchain transactions and the address where these coins sit (Burt had this somewhere).  This is obviously not a penny.

You have no honor whatsoever.

If BS&T defaults today, you will just use the coins provided to you during the auction 5 weeks ago and recently withdrawn in the amount of 3932 BTC.
Just cut off the crap and stop deluding people with "funds" and "transactions" - I don't give a shit about the details of your bookkeeping.

Obviously you do not care about the bookkeeping and transactions - it makes the story less interesting.

In the event of a default, the coins from the auction invested into BS&T are gone.  I am not sure where you think this magical extra set of coins appears from as any "spare" is paid out in profits.  If we were running a five week cycle that might work, but would still require approximately 4000 coins more than customers have provided.

As for honour, I do not need to attest my own position.

It's really amazing that one can run such a lucrative business without having in idea of what it is about
Unless you just keep playing stupid, with the hope to delude more unconscious suckers...

Later today I will try to explain again, this time week-by-week, how your initial capital in the "insurance fund" got replaced by money from the cycling auctions, and how it happened that you are not holding there any risk anymore... So stay tuned.

[cedus]

Has Pirate disclosed to you what the tiers will be for the new trust account interest rates?

This. Several people are talking about 6% in PPT related topics, but apparently 7% is still available. Would be nice to know the tiers and PPT's official stand whether it's going to strive for the maximum interest rate or remain at 12k (or 9k) BTC level which presumably entitles to 6%.

[piotr_n]

Later today I will try to explain again, this time week-by-week, how your initial capital in the "insurance fund" got replaced by money from the cycling auctions, and how it happened that you are not holding there any risk anymore... So stay tuned.

As promised, here is how it works, assuming the worst case scenario, in which all the bonds are sold at 1.00 BTC.

For simplification and better understanding I will use 1000, instead of 3000, for weekly deposits / new bonds.
I hope you don't need a prove that this schema works just as well with other amounts? I'm asking this because your stupidity has already surprised me at least once, so I never know...

Anyway, here is how it works:

Code:

Week no | Depositor of 1000 BTC | BTC in The Fund | BTC in BS&T | Withdraw from BS&T for 1000 BTC deposited 4 weeks ago
=============================================================================================================================
0       | PPT shareholders      | 0 BTC           | 1000 BTC    | -
1       | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1000 BTC        | 1000 BTC    | -
2       | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1000 BTC        | 2000 BTC    | -
3       | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1000 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | -
4       | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 280 BTC to the Fund, 1030 BTC to PPT shareholders
5       | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
6       | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
7       | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
8       | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
9       | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
10      | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
11      | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
12      | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
13      | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
14      | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
15      | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
... and so on ...

As you can see, at week 4 the initial investment was already returned to the PPT shareholders while the fund required to handle all the insurance is still there.

So the first 1000 BTC was exposed to the risk only for the first 4 weeks. Later you simply withdraw the initial capital because the bonds self-insure themselves.

[brendio]

Later today I will try to explain again, this time week-by-week, how your initial capital in the "insurance fund" got replaced by money from the cycling auctions, and how it happened that you are not holding there any risk anymore... So stay tuned.

As promised, here is how it works, assuming the worst case scenario, in which all the bonds are sold at 1.00 BTC.

For simplification and better understanding I will use 1000, instead of 3000, for weekly deposits / new bonds.
I hope you don't need a prove that this schema works just as well with other amounts? I'm asking this because your stupidity has already surprised me at least once, so I never know...

Anyway, here is how it works:

Code:

Week no | Depositor of 1000 BTC | BTC in The Fund | BTC in BS&T | Withdraw from BS&T for 1000 BTC deposited 4 weeks ago
=============================================================================================================================
0       | PPT shareholders      | 0 BTC           | 1000 BTC    | -
1       | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1000 BTC        | 1000 BTC    | -
2       | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1000 BTC        | 2000 BTC    | -
3       | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1000 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | -
4       | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 280 BTC to the Fund, 1030 BTC to PPT shareholders
5       | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
6       | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
7       | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
8       | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
9       | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
10      | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
11      | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
12      | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
13      | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
14      | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
15      | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
... and so on ...

As you can see, at week 4 the initial investment was already returned to the PPT shareholders while the fund required to handle all the insurance is still there.

So the first 1000 BTC was exposed to the risk only for the first 4 weeks. Later you simply withdraw the initial capital because the bonds self-insure themselves.

And again you conveniently forget to consider opportunity cost.

[piotr_n]

And again you conveniently forget to consider opportunity cost.

Opportunity cost?  WTF is this? May I ask you, our genius, how much the opportunity costs in this case? Is it more than your car's annual insurance?
Please educate mi about the "opportunity cost", because  I'm such an idiot who has no idea about the complex stuff around it.
I should have studied economy in America instead of computers in Europe - maybe then I would be at least half as smart as you are

[Vandroiy]

piotr_n:

While I agree the insurance should have been a profit by now, I don't see why you are so angry about it. It's an documented contract, it takes a few seconds to skim over it and read the conditions. Unlike another issue here, this problem is out in the open and for the user to judge.

This is really running against the smallest issue in sight. Why bother?

[PatrickHarnett]

If the redemption of the bonds was on a five week cycle I would be more inclined to agree, but it's not.  But you are getting closer.  The other piece that appears missing is the payments to PPT.DIV holders, but as have need stated, you're not interested in accurate bookkeeping.

In the table, a default event would also show 0.32 coins per outstanding bond being used to pay bond holders, and from what you have clearly set out, that does come from the week zero funds.

In other news, major insurance companies use customer premiums directly to build reserves, pay claims and enrich shareholders.

[piotr_n]

It's really amazing that one can run such a lucrative business without having in idea of what it is about
Unless you just keep playing stupid, with the hope to delude more unconscious suckers...

Later today I will try to explain again, this time week-by-week, how your initial capital in the "insurance fund" got replaced by money from the cycling auctions, and how it happened that you are not holding there any risk anymore... So stay tuned.

Can you shut up please? You're starting to sound like that time cube idiot.

Good morning,

It's going to be such a nice day.

Who said that I was angry?
Nothing like that - I'm actually enjoying this conversation with the smartest guys in the bitcoin world

Unfortunately I see that you still haven't got it and you are still barking at the postman.
Despite of all my efforts - what a shame.
And I even made such a nice table for you - having it I just cannot imagine how much easier could it be for an idiot to understand the root of the "free insurance" scam.

But well, nobody is perfect and since you are so smart, I can only guess that you just didn't read carefully enough.
So just let me repeat it one more time, because I believe that it is quite simple and one day you will eventually get it.
And on that day I will shut up - so suddenly that I am even already saying: you're welcome

Code:

Week no | Depositor of 1000 BTC | BTC in The Fund | BTC in BS&T | Withdraw from BS&T for 1000 BTC deposited 4 weeks ago
=============================================================================================================================
0       | PPT shareholders      | 0 BTC           | 1000 BTC    | -
1       | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1000 BTC        | 1000 BTC    | -
2       | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1000 BTC        | 2000 BTC    | -
3       | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1000 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | -
4       | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | 280 BTC to the Fund, initial 1000 + new 30 BTC back to PPT shareholders
5       | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
6       | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1280 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
7       | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1280 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
8       | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1280 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
9       | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
10      | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
11      | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1280 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
12      | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1280 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
... and so on...

So, as you can see on the picture above, already at week 4 the PPT bonds business was a risk-free, perpetual 3% / week profit.
And now they became so greedy and impertinent (justifying it with the "free insurance" propaganda) that they forced 7% / week from this risk-free investment.

BTW, even ButrW agreed (in the other thread) that they don't pay for the "insurance", but the bond-buyers are insuring the bonds...
So I understand that you are jumping at me, because you don't like strange people coming from nowhere to expose your cheeky scams, but why are you arguing with him?

[farfiman]

The risk the PPT lenders took was in the 1st rounds of bonds.If pirate defaulted then the insurance would have come from their pocket. Obviously ,after a while they made profit  which now is more than enough to pay for the insurance.  Whats wrong with that?   As far as buyers are concerned, at any given moment they buy a PPT bond they are sure they will get back at least 0.32 and they don't care about all your intricate calculations.

[piotr_n]

The risk the PPT lenders took was in the 1st rounds of bonds.If pirate defaulted then the insurance would have come from their pocket. Obviously ,after a while they made profit  which now is more than enough to pay for the insurance.  Whats wrong with that?   As far as buyers are concerned, at any given moment they buy a PPT bond they are sure they will get back at least 0.32 and they don't care about all your intricate calculations.

What's wrong is the interest rate.
After they got back the initial capital and the business has been risk-free for them, there is no justification for the PPT bonds to have an extra low interest rate, comparing to the other PPT bonds.
So my guess is that if anyone buys their bonds at 1.04+, it's only because he got mislead by the illusion of the "free insurance".
They parasitize on a stupidity of unconscious suckers who they managed to delude with the free insurance propaganda.

[piotr_n]

Another thing that is interesting, BTW of discussing this matter, are the tags on the forum.

If somebody borrows 5 BTC and doesn't give it back - he gets a SCAMMER tag.
But when a bunch of people sells a fake insurance, earning hundreds of bitcoins with this - these are VIP, Donator, Senior Hero Members... 

[Namworld]

As promised, here is how it works, assuming the worst case scenario, in which all the bonds are sold at 1.00 BTC.

For simplification and better understanding I will use 1000, instead of 3000, for weekly deposits / new bonds.
I hope you don't need a prove that this schema works just as well with other amounts? I'm asking this because your stupidity has already surprised me at least once, so I never know...

Anyway, here is how it works:

Code:

Week no | Depositor of 1000 BTC | BTC in The Fund | BTC in BS&T | Withdraw from BS&T for 1000 BTC deposited 4 weeks ago
=============================================================================================================================
0       | PPT shareholders      | 0 BTC           | 1000 BTC    | -
1       | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1000 BTC        | 1000 BTC    | -
2       | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1000 BTC        | 2000 BTC    | -
3       | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1000 BTC        | 3000 BTC    | -
4       | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 280 BTC to the Fund, 1030 BTC to PPT shareholders
5       | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
6       | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
7       | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
8       | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
9       | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
10      | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
11      | Buyers of PPT.A       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.B, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
12      | Buyers of PPT.B       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.C, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
13      | Buyers of PPT.C       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.D, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
14      | Buyers of PPT.D       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.E, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
15      | Buyers of PPT.E       | 1280 BTC        | 4000 BTC    | 1280 BTC to buy back PPT.A, 30 BTC to PPT shareholders
... and so on ...

As you can see, at week 4 the initial investment was already returned to the PPT shareholders while the fund required to handle all the insurance is still there.

So the first 1000 BTC was exposed to the risk only for the first 4 weeks. Later you simply withdraw the initial capital because the bonds self-insure themselves.

Week 0. Investors put 1000 in BS&T
BS&T: 1000 - Fund: 0

Week 1. Buyers put 1000 going into Fund
BS&T: 1000 - Fund: 1000

Week 2. Buyers put 1000 going into BS&T
BS&T: 2000 - Fund: 1000

Week 3. Buyers put 1000 going into BS&T
BS&T: 3000 - Fund: 1000

Week 4. Buyers put 1000 going into BS&T, Removal of 1310 from BS&T going to shareholders (1030 to shareholders), 280 to the fund.
BS&T: 3000 - Fund: 1280

ONLY 310 bitcoins are the interest, the rest is 1000 removed from BS&T for 1000 being added, it STAYS 3000 BT&T like at week 3. There's a 1310 removal for a 1000 in. BS&T funds will stay the same like between week 4 & 5 & 6... That chart is not right.

Note:
-I don't like BS&T or derivatives
-I don't trust BS&T or derivatives
-I don't invest in BS&T or derivatives