There goes Greece's dream to qualify and progress in the World Cup the way they did in Euros before: defend like Spartans and reach penalties (I'm not sure I'm even joking anymore) but indeed, we would all welcome any team that has Modric weaving his wand. Reminds me of good old Tottenham Hotspurs days...

Switzerland more or less deserved the win, but I think N Ireland just as equally deserved the draw. Going to be hard for them to score across the sea but let's see. I still think one of the Irish teams should go through.

Italy had better go through tomorrow! No Zlatan, no excuse.

I'm a little surprised to read from the answers here that it's more expensive to buy Bitcoins using localbitcoins, since my own personal experience is very much different. I buy from one specific country (Malaysia) and effectively one region (EU, via SEPA, so traders are located all over Europe where SEPA applies). Both are bank transfer transactions, so it varies from instant (in Malaysia) to 0-2 days approx with SEPA, depending on bank.

For example, right now, I can get Bitcoin at EUR 6,277 at LBC ($7,302) or MYR 31, 435 ($7,500), so currently, traders in EU are selling it cheaper than Malaysians (it is always slightly different at times of day).

If I were to buy Bitcoin from Bitcoin.com with a credit card, it now costs $7,317. On top of that, 2.5% Bitcoin.com fees plus credit card fee 5%, that's $7,865.

Coinbase price looks very attractive at $7,190 but after credit card fee: 3.99% = $7,476.

Big difference to me. P2P of course still want to make profit, but significantly less than cc fees.

You'll need to provide a little more detail than that if you want assistance...

However, Bitcoin transactions are irreversible - the only way to get your coins back is if the receiver spends the coins back to you. In your case, if you've already sent deposits twice to the exchange (I'm assuming that's what you mean by resending money), you'll just have to request a withdrawal from the exchange for the amount you want back. It's highly unlikely any exchange returns funds to users. To my understanding, even if you send amounts below their minimum deposits, you won't get it back without intervention (with customer support).

Yeah, this must be a somewhat outdated exchange too, since most have already "upgraded" to allow deposits to old addresses. In fact, even those that warn users not to deposit to old addresses still should credit accidents since it's just a simple lookup.

What else is curious for me to know:
1. Maybe OP can clarify, is there a reason you chose to make 2 separate withdrawals to the same address? Not that it matters when depositing to Exchange B since input size won't matter when you withdraw from them.
2. The funds are still unspent! I don't know any exchange that doesn't immediately drain out the deposit addresses of customers, so I'm now very curious to know this exchange. In fact, all 4 txs to that address are still unspent!

Any headline will do this time, but yeah after seeing even 25% in a day, 10% bursts really don't cut it as rollercoaster rides anymore. I'm also really, really, surprised at the price and can only wonder if perhaps the s2x supporters had already booked in profits. What really took me by surprise was the seemingly blanket effect on alts. I'm seeing still 20-30% increases well past 24 hours after the news broke and Bitcoin bounced. I have a feeling the real surprise is still in store. Isn't December traditionally the lull before a crypto event brewing in January?

Yeah, this post made me curious enough to try to search online for possible/planned Bitcoin forks. Didn't find any except these really crazy one: Bitcoin Silver at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2311582.0 ... gotta be a troll without a website and BTG rip off. I even found a plan to fork off Bitcoin Cash, which is not even funny as a joke anymore.

Gotta say that some people felt these hard forks business would only embolden others to try the same, in search for a quick buck. As laughable as Bitcoin Gold ended up to be, a lot of Bitcoin holders still made money from future trading. Even a 5% instant sell-off profit is not something to laugh at.

I believe the lack of enmity in the email was a sign that they have conceded in as final a way possible. This doesn't mean there won't be a future call for a similar hard fork alternative, not at all. But it will mean that these guys have probably seen enough proof to show that their goals would never be achievable, no matter how much corporate sponsorship and political will went behind it. NYA signatories dropping out, shows also that so many were misled (not intentionally I would hope) about S2x.

So, not vanquished. But definitely a concession. I think we can look forward to a lot more open, less hostile, discussions from now on?

OP, that's a crazy number of ATMs in one city... where are you located? London? NY? We had 2 Bitcoin ATMs in our capital (Kuala Lumpur) - located in trendy, really high-end areas where people would afford Bitcoin I guess. Think this was even in 2014 or so, but they closed down since and I'm not aware of any right now. Population of about 30 million and it wasn't successful then, and unlikely to happen again with the moves by our central bank.

I get why the idea would appeal... but to me it's just as easy as going on localbitcoins to buy a bit of coin. I mean, if people have a hard time understanding how to buy and use wallets, imagine how tough they'd get around using an ATM, no? Never mind the exorbitant fees...

I do agree that energy consumption for Bitcoin mining is unsustainable - but we shouldn't make the false comparison of how expensive it is per transaction. The direct energy cost/tx model, if used across various currency or payment methods, was recently used to compare Bitcoin to Visa. But the inherent benefits of Bitcoin far outweight those of Visa and others: the security and privacy to me are the most obvious. The amount of control you have. Swipe a card or enter it and you can never really be sure of what you're spending and to whom. You never know when its data could be stolen and misused (it's definitely seen, tracked and recorded!).

Plus, the overheads for Bitcoin are significantly lower. Sure, mining operations are costly, but nothing compared to the infrastructure and human resource of Visa or others.

But to the point at hand - algorithm changes may very well happen to help address this, but it may be a very long time before that happens. My thinking is that mining cartels fear its effects on price and may once again feel they have a huge say in the matter.

I think we should all take this as good news. Indeed, common sense and impending logic prevail. Shame that it had to take public denouncements from Bitcoin.org and signatories to leave to mount the pressure on this decision, but in the end, the email sounds quite all right. No sensationalism, just a concession. United Bitcoin stands... for now.

P.S. The big block supporters are really taking out their hate on the signers of this email... Twitter, everywhere. I don't believe I've ever seen Jihan Wu called a traitor, by his own supporters too.

Yeah, it's quite noticeable in the PL, teams generally do better (if not winning, at least halting a run of losses) under a new manager immediately. Perhaps some feel-good psychology at play, but probably dying to impress the new boss. I see quite a bit of chatter from skeptical Hammers online, plus the trolls are all out at play. Moyes's win rate at Everton keeps getting bandied around but if he can get 10 points before Christmas, that will be just enough to keep the hopers hoping.

Anyone wanna take guesses at his winter transfer targets? I wonder if he'll lure any players from Merseyside.

Don't feed the trolls, mate, unless, like me, you actually do enjoy seeing them come out from under the rafters. Seems that a lot of people are happy being made rich by Bitcoin, they take the time to make new accounts and post from them

But let's pretend the discussion started seriously. A few months ago, when Bitcoin broke $4k and a few very staunch supporters were pleasantly surprised, we felt that that 5k was only around the corner, but that dread massive correction was bound to follow. Now in less than a third of the year, we're already approaching double that.

Is it comprehensible to see Bitcoin do a little more than 30% by Christmas? I no longer think it's impossible. Best case scenario, the fork fails to do its damage, and then Bitcoin is just going to come off its wheels. Personally? That's still too soon for me, and will unfortunately usher in the Great Correction.

Says the BlackRock strategist who'll definitely say "yes, that's the right price" to anyone who would offer him Bitcoin at say $6,500 right now. Fair value should be a very basic concept for him to grasp. Bitcoin will cost Zimbabweans more than $10,000 right now if bought locally, but there's a lot of considerations priced into that: scarcity against demand being the most obvious, but also the risk that the seller takes (that Bitcoins will be even in more demand and that local currencies are likely to bend even more in a stale economy).

When China's exchanges faced closure, similarly the extra risks for owning Bitcoin were priced in, and fair value there was 10% below global market average.

Like you said, that's the simple test - will people accept the price? If yes, then that's the right price. Simple, isn't it?

I'm ashamed to say you could count me in on being one of those "lots of people", going against even my own advice when dealing with these Bitcoin forks. BTG caught me by surprise, and I probably should have read some of the writing on the wall with regards to their (ongoing) incompetence. I dipped a little more into the altpool, beefed up some of my holdings and even added a new coin at what seemed to be value prices at the time. Even managed to see them appreciate a little while, but then Bitcoin never dipped properly as BTG got mired deeper into their mess. So a "double whammy" - lost BTC on current alt declines, and "lost" the BTG I'd have gained if I kept my coins pre-fork.

But this Segwit2x fork is a whole different beast - I'm more confused the more I research. This time, I'm sticking to my guns and keeping my Bitcoin no matter the developments until 2017 ends.

Good points to note: past is not indicative of present or future movement. This is true in conventional trading, but holds even stronger in Bitcoin markets. This is why most of the technical anaylses and comparisons to bubbles of the past are only interesting at best.

What we also need to realise is that this upcoming fork is unlike the previous two we've already had. It is the most contentious of all, and is the one most likely to have far and long lasting implications, should it succeed in its aims. Bitcoin Cash is only slightly similar in its corporate sponsorship. It may have benefited from being the first fork this year, so there was a lot of attention that gained it more recognition than it deserved. I'm inclined to even leave Bitcoin Gold out of this comparison; pretty sure its devs are embarrassed at the mess it's come to be seen as.

This one will be tough to predict, extremely risky to trade on.

Thanks for taking the time to address these issues of scaling - it's often dismissed as a natural and inevitable problem simply because it seems to be every business's issue, eventually, but outside of decentralised exchanges, even 5 years of history learning from the biggest hasn't taught exchanges to cope with it. They all start out with lightning-quick execution and then sputter as traffic increases, but as I said, even those aren't as important as Customer Support! Crypto is on the cusp of mainstream adoption, yet the majority of easily useable platforms are already overloaded.

Let's hope your AI-aided solution will be good enough for an exchange... I've not been impressed by what I've seen so far. Good luck!

In fact, Bitcoin is probably one of only a handful of cryptocurrencies with a significant portion of its users interested in its technology and ideal. Before 2012 at least, probably the majority of them were simply working and experimenting with Bitcoin for that sole purpose. And they'll always be the ones using it, at whatever price. The fact that so many developers have left the scene without accumulating much is evidence of this, to me at least. If indeed the "bubble" bursts and it all comes crashing down, I'm sure the same ones plugging away at it in the beginning will be the ones still discussing and developing right here.

I know it's a slight disservice to developers of other projects and alts, but even the best and most respected developers on alt projects must have some financial motivation. It was Bitcoin's rise to fame and promise of future wealth that led to the boom in alts this year.

I guess it's good that someone is thinking of such a project. However, you might want to avoid getting involved in law enforcement, especially since that would already be the jurisdiction of regional and international agencies such as Europol and Interpol. What would be helpful is to provide a service or agency that helps point people in the right direction to such avenues for assistance.

For example, raise awareness on the organisations already recognised as legitimately able to take action, depending on jurisdictions, provide the direct hotlines and contacts to victims of fraud and other crypto related crime, which is likely to already be under the purvey of existing regulations, even if there isn't any body at the moment responsible for crypto as a whole. A lot of such organisations gather at conferences such as these: https://www.interpol.int/en/News-and-media/News/2017/N2017-002. Connect and network with them.

Although, I imagine a service that helps with legal aid would be helpful. Not too many firms specialising in the crypto area atm, I'd wager.

i favore seeing Moyes back at Everton they have been struggling the most this season and with the 11 seasons he spent with them would make him as number 1 candidate as he is experinced with most of the players and club. and for West Ham i would prefer to see Alan Padrew . and i think what was the thing that accelerated the sack more then the obvious defeats is that Bilic refeused to get Renato Sanches from Bayern and Grzegorz Krychowiak  from PSG he went to West Brom on loan and Sanches to Swensea and that didn't make fans happy and now he is gone but we should expect from the Hammers to announce the  name of the new manager in the upcoming days
[/quote]

Moyes is a solid coach, but I suppose there is some truth to accusations that he is a fighting manager built for a fighting club. I think he drew as much energy from Everton as they did from him - just look at the products of his golden boys... Lescott (who's now into crypto by the way!), Rooney, Cahill, Jagielka, Pienaar, even Fellaini (heh heh). Fighting underdogs, great strength, seldom silky, often brawling.

Now you put him into teams that are used to winning easy, used to seeing opponents roll over (cough, Utd) then he gets lost. He is a guy with an instinct to survive, not, unfortunately, be champions. So yeah, West Ham, sadly need his calibre now. Everton need to move on from Moyes so they can be the second Merseyside team to fight for trophies.

Anyone would agree with the correction, but I've been agreeing with it since the $4k mark, and any correction hasn't been able to outlive a week since. But technical analysis is absolutely a very loose guideline here and by no means indicative, which is something we should have learnt by now with Bitcoin. I have been overestimating Bitcoin's bottom for what seems like a long time now, but I suppose one must remember that it has only been a matter of months and there's all that steam from the bull run to run out of before price stabilises... or will it ever?

H&S has to be the most overused - and most proven wrong - in this forum. I even see it being used on 15-min charts.