Um... that's exactly what the Illuminati fought against: they were against the idea that anyone or anything could claim to be anyone's supreme overlord...
Then why do we have governments? Why aren't we in anarchy if the illuminati thinks so highly of it? Why are we moving towards a world government? Because governments and churches convinced gullible people like yourself that the Illuminati were satanists or secret government types, and killed, imprisoned, or exhiled them. Seriously, read the wikipedia entry on them. Or any actual history books. They, uh, were against empires too. And kings, and rulers, and governments. So they wouldn't have built any empires. They WERE for science and study of reality though.
Were perhaps, but clearly who ever is in charge of the world now is not against empires, nor rulers or governments. Yeah, that secret group of people that is in charge right now is called Governments and Churches. And I guess now corporatists. Nothing secret or shady, and definitely not the Illuminati. How many wars are being fought in the name of religion?
Um, have you looked at the Middle East, and conflicts between India and Pakistan lately? Also, in my opinion, government is a form of religion, too, so... Why would an organization that fought so much against authoritarian power, want to subjugate themselves to some authoritarian despot?
Are you defending the elitist bastards that commit genocide and enslave humanity? No, I am defending the illuminati, who were against those things. If you are going to attack a group, at least learn about the group you are attacking first. it's as if you're now consciously pretending that the 'illuminati' (or whatever you want to call the top of the hierarchy)...
I like to call them governments, dictators, despots, and corporatists. Illuminati is an actual thing, and an actual group that existed with actual goals and beliefs. I could talk about how the Cherokee or the Greek Scholars are evil despots, because they are secretly controling the world, but that doesn't make sense, because those are also actual groups with actual history that don't actually do what I claim they do. Illuminati are not a catch-all adjective to describe any group you don't like. Don't continue to besmirch their good name just because the church and the government is folloing you ito it. Friend, I laid down in a lawn the day Hell's Angel's and Mexican drug cartels made appearance in Holly Springs, lapping around me for the entirety of the day. Let's see you lay down at peace in the presence of death before calling someone else fearful.
That sounds stupid. Being afraid of actual things that can actually physically hurt you is a good thing. It's being afraid of different opinions, things that can't hurt you, that's a bad thing. Please enlighten me as to who the illuminati were and why the people in charge are not them. Where are they now? I normally abstain from using the word illuminati, but when it's used, it's referring to the top of the power structure that entangles earth. And history books do not validate truth, many rewrite history to fit the viewpoint of whoever created them. I have firsthand knowledge that Freemasons pull most of the strings behind the curtain. I have firsthand experience that the government works with beings of a higher awareness. I know you don't actually believe Obama is the head of the show, do you? I can definitely see them pushing atheism onto the masses though. Why would they want to give a population they wish to enslave hope? Why would they want them to become fearless of death? Fear is what drives their power and fear, or negativity, is the basis of atheism (I don't think there's a god, I don't think that's possible, etc.)
You clearly say here that fear is the basis of atheism. Are you going to contradict yourself, or are you going to explain why you're stereotyping atheists as cowards who can't face the idea of god? See, you're still skewing my words around and it seems that you're doing it intentionally at this point. I never said atheists are cowards, you brought that idea upon yourself. I will say that atheists do not understand god though. For to be with god is to have understanding, unity. Fear is negativity, ego. Answer this: Do you believe in god? Do you believe in eternal life? Do you believe I can fly? |
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The only true way to create an honest economy is to remove greed as a factor. The way to do this is to abandon money. When money is absent, we will find ourselves with a society based around love rather than greed. All work would be done through volunteerism. People will think "How can I help the most people," rather than, "How can I make the most money." This would result in the most efficient economy possible, for everyone will be competing to provide the most positive impact on humanity for the return of the most positive energy, or peace, happiness. The more people you help for free, the more peace you will feel.
Without a medium like money to facilitate greed, large superficial industries built around taking rather than giving would be erased, leaving large amounts of manpower and resources to be applied towards creating rather than destroying.
Without money, we would effectively end wars, poverty and famine. We would end tyranny and all forms of corruption with time. Knowledge would be shared for the betterment of humanity rather than hoarded for the betterment of individuals.
Without money, we would see the largest evolutionary leap man has yet to see. Without money, our planet would ascend to a new level of existence. Without money, we would have world peace. Without money, we would attain heaven.
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I didn't say that either, now it seems you're just trolling me.
Not trolling, just pointing out inconsistencies in your world view. You write that "Please don't skew my words, I did not say atheists can't have hope. I'm simply stating that when you overcome fear of death and understand the eternal nature of our being, there really is nothing to fear. And that is powerful. How does a tyrant control a population that doesn't fear death?" How can you then say you don't mean that atheists don't fear death? Generally speaking, however, the thought of eternal peace brings a lot more peace in one's life than the thought of cessation of existence, from my experience at both ends of the spectrum. Contemplating the later as a young kid, I can say the reason it invoked so much fear into me is because the whole concept doesn't make a smidge of sense.
You believe this is true, therefore it is true? My life experience is nothing like that. I've never feared death, but I have loved life. There's a big difference. The idea that something of me will continue after death in some mad god's playground - I've never understood that belief, nor its allure. Your vivid imagination was fun while it was harmless, but the last few posts you've been telling me how I live, what I fear, that atheism robs me of hope. I don't mind so much when you wrote in that other thread "Atheism doesn't exist" because it's clear to everyone that you're wrong. But then you start trying to stereotype someone because they haven't seen sufficient proof to believe what you believe. What next? Atheists are subhuman? They don't really feel pain? Any other wise insight into the mind of the "Atheist"? You're pointing out inconsistencies of your perception of my words. Saying god (love) brings peace does not mean atheists must fear death, all atheists still have love (god) in them, whether they'll admit it or not. To your second statement, you self admittingly said you ignore death. How can not fear death without confronting your fear of death? It is human nature to fear. I have not been speaking on behalf of your experience at all, I've given no more than my perception. Now you've got me questioning how you say you're not trolling, as you state that I stated atheism robs you of hope and I said nothing of the nature and even pointed it out how you introverted my words in a previous post. What part of a totalitarian socialist society screams good to you? I don't really enjoy when another person claims to be my supreme overlord.
Um... that's exactly what the Illuminati fought against: they were against the idea that anyone or anything could claim to be anyone's supreme overlord... Then why do we have governments? Why aren't we in anarchy if the illuminati thinks so highly of it? Why are we moving towards a world government? And devil is a very specific angel/demon from the bible, having nothing to do with material things. He's a figment of people's imagination, and a part of theology. The same theology the Illuminati were against.
Everything is a part of your imagination. It would be foolish to say negative thoughts do not effect your life. They, uh, were against empires too. And kings, and rulers, and governments. So they wouldn't have built any empires. They WERE for science and study of reality though.
Were perhaps, but clearly who ever is in charge of the world now is not against empires, nor rulers or governments. Science is a distraction from the real, limitless, technology we hold within. But it's faith that is based off of fear, greed, and hatered. Hatered of people who's "morals" don't conform to your faith, or who's faith isn't the same as yours. We are annihilating out planet through religious wars, and due to people thinking that god will be coming back soon, so why worry about poluting the planet. Faith is the Dark Ages, and we're still just coming out of it (with some parts of the world still being in it)
Faith is based off fear greed and hatred? Now you're either joking or have never consciously experienced any level of faith. When I rode on an R6 the third day of riding a motorcycle, lane splitting through cars at 140 mph, you're telling me that was an act of fear from my faith in myself? Srs? And do you honestly believe religions are the driving force of wars? Again, srs? Wars are perpetuated by greed, hatred and desire for control, material and power. Wars are perpetuated by fear. What religion's true basis is fear? Any spiritual religion teaches from the same truth of love, god. Do you really believe religions have not been hijacked as an excuse of demonizing the concept of god in covert means of establishing power? Do you really believe Jesus would approve of the pope or Israeli's thirst for blood in the name of god? Have you even contemplated that many mainstream religions turned into a control structure that bastardizes concepts of universal truth to fit their agenda? How many wars are being fought in the name of religion? Last I checked, it was governments and militaries that were slaughtering the masses. Why would an organization that fought so much against authoritarian power, want to subjugate themselves to some authoritarian despot?
Are you defending the elitist bastards that commit genocide and enslave humanity? Do you not see what is happening in this world? I think you do, I've read your posts for too long, it's as if you're now consciously pretending that the 'illuminati' (or whatever you want to call the top of the hierarchy) don't exist or even exist in the better interest of humanity. A joke. People are enslaved through religion, not atheism. Look at the Catholic church in Africa, the horrible enslavement of women in Middle East, the witch trials in US, the Inquizition and the dark ages. Hell, look at yourself. You are a slave to your delusions, to the point that you don't even recognize reality any more.
People aren't enslaved by religion. People are enslaved through fear. People are enslaved through greed. Money. The basis of any true religion is love. God is love. Love is peace. Love sets you free. Fear is what enslaves the world. Have some corrupt religious structures used fear to control people? Absolutely. Is love the cause of the problem? No. It's the egomanics that infiltrated the concept of love and perverted it to obtain from the obvious truth that god is within and to love god is to love yourself. Sir, as much as you'd love to think I'm the one who is deluded from reality, there are few people more in touch of the true nature of reality. Reverse your evil (negative) words upon your tongue, for your negativity stems from your own perception. I think your faith is driving your fear of anything different, be they illuminati, or just atheists. Why are you afraid of people who simply don't share your beliefs?
Friend, I laid down in a lawn the day Hell's Angel's and Mexican drug cartels made appearance in Holly Springs, lapping around me for the entirety of the day. Let's see you lay down at peace in the presence of death before calling someone else fearful. Faith in god, love, peace does not drive fear. Faith in ego, doubt, fear, does. |
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It looks like this is going nowhere... Extreme - Atheist - There is no such thing as god. You can prove it to me be beyond a reasonable doubt; I will refuse to acknowledge your proof and I would rather kill you than believe in god. * Everything in between Middle - Agnostic - I was born an inquisitive being; I learn things using a scientific process. I would believe in god if you could prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that god existed; likewise, I would accept that god might not exist. If I die and go to heaven; great. If I die and just cease to exist; then that's just how it is... * Everything in between Extreme - Religious - God is absolutely real. I don't have to prove it because I believe it and I want to force you to believe it in order to "save your soul." I will die if I must in order to force you to believe in god. From the perspective of existence the OP is correct; existence is eternal. However; only that which existed before the big bang is infinite. Eternity will eventually end and this eternal plane will no longer exist. Energy cannot be created or destroyed from within our Universe. This indicates a lack of equilibrium and hints that an inverse of energy must exist for existence to be possible. Equilibrium is infinite until acted upon by an external force. Recent tests at the Hadron Particle Accelerator reveal that when an atomic particle is "smashed," the pieces can no longer exist and form a black hole. The creation of a black hole at such low energies is indicative of an alternate plane containing the inverse of energy and mass. Black holes are the equilibrium of energy. http://www.livescience.com/27811-creating-mini-black-holes.htmlhttp://www.livescience.com/27888-newfound-particle-is-higgs.htmlYour atheist definition is wrong many levels, firstly nobody has proven any religion beyond a responsible doubt. The very definition of faith is belief without evidence. If you wish to use the legal term of beyond reasonable doubt, you will require a great deal of irrefutable evidence, which religion provides none. Religion doesn't even come close to the balance of probabilities threshold. Atheism merely means not convinced. The extreme version would be, extremely not convinced. Your definition may be more suited to an anti-theist. Somebody that "KNOWS" there is no God People have had evidence through supernatural encounters, I wouldn't have believed in god to the extent I do if I had not experience something impossible. Wouldn't agnostic mean you're not convinced? The root of atheism (A) signifies a negative, that it is the same as anti-theism. Its bad to see OP banned.BTW I liked this discussion and I support religion so does over 95% of my fellow humans.I'm muslim BTW.
Still here bro.  Congratulations on supporting religion.
This thread was not started as a religion support thread, it was a put down for atheism thread.
It was neither, it was a thread to push those who read it to become conscious of their ego (negative side) and let go of it to think and live using their soul (positive side) more. This thread was more intended to point out the fallacious nature of negatives, for negatives create false statements. My goal is not to put anyone down, rather to lift everyone up. |
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Your brain is but a tool that connects your true self (consciousness) to the world.
There is as much proof that an non-physical spirit exists as a god-like being exists. You clearly have never had an OBE (outer body experience). No such thing as an OOBE (that's actually "out of body experience"). No one that has reported such an experience has ever been able to show knowledge of something that couldn't be known another way. Therefore, the OOBE is no different to imagining something. It's not proof that you can experience something without a brain. If you think you can show knowledge through an OOBE of something that would have been unknown, you can earn yourself an easy million dollars. How are you going to tell me there's no such thing when I have literally gone to other dimensions through astral travel? I do not doubt that you have imagined something of the sort. But there's nothing to indicate that you are experiencing anything other than a fevered imagining. And I can say the exact same thing about life. |
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Your brain is but a tool that connects your true self (consciousness) to the world.
There is as much proof that an non-physical spirit exists as a god-like being exists. You clearly have never had an OBE (outer body experience). No such thing as an OOBE (that's actually "out of body experience"). No one that has reported such an experience has ever been able to show knowledge of something that couldn't be known another way. Therefore, the OOBE is no different to imagining something. It's not proof that you can experience something without a brain. If you think you can show knowledge through an OOBE of something that would have been unknown, you can earn yourself an easy million dollars. How are you going to tell me there's no such thing when I have literally gone to other dimensions through astral travel? Life is a dream created by your imagination. Don't get fooled by how real it seems, sure it's real, but it's also an illusion created by our consciousness. Everything is energy, light waves, sound waves etc., you mind manifests it to be as it is. And you control your mind as much as you believe. |
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Your brain is but a tool that connects your true self (consciousness) to the world.
There is as much proof that an non-physical spirit exists as a god-like being exists. You clearly have never had an OBE (outer body experience). Rassah, if you want to believe the universe is nothing, that's fine. From my experience there is much more peace to be felt by believing in something rather than nothing. Regarding perceiving nothing, if you were to somehow perceive nothing, you would be unaware you perceived nothing, thus, it would never have happened, for, for you to perceive nothing, your perception would have to cease completely and you would have no recollection of perceiving nothing. I sorta have this feeling that you're just pulling strings to defend your perspective, but I'll take your word. |
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Refer to the first post. You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.
But... I can. I can quite literally make myself percieve nothing. Does that mean that nothing exists? You're not making yourself perceive nothing, you're making yourself perceive a conceptualization of nothing. Again, how could you perceive nothing if you are there perceiving it? I turn off, or rather actively ignore, all my senses, and stop myself from thinking about anything at all. Completely blank mind. So, yes, I am perceiving nothing, meaning there is nothing in the universe. If you are perceiving nothing, no perceiving can take place. What you are perceiving is nothingness. Even if you're meditating as you say, which I have practiced letting go of my senses, you're still perceiving everything rather than nothing. You still hear your heart beat, your breath, see the colors in your eyes. You are just becoming one with it all, transcending beyond the physical realm of what we perceive something to be and into a state of unity with the surrounding energies. Absorbing and merging with the very noise of the universe, if you will. You should try astral projection if you really are practicing letting go as you say. |
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Your brain is but a tool that connects your true self (consciousness) to the world.
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Refer to the first post. You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.
But... I can. I can quite literally make myself percieve nothing. Does that mean that nothing exists? You're not making yourself perceive nothing, you're making yourself perceive a conceptualization of nothing. Again, how could you perceive nothing if you are there perceiving it? |
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Refer to the first post. You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.
Incorrect. Anyone who has received a sufficiently damaging brain trauma will be unable to perceive anything. ...and you know this from first hand experience? |
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If you are perceiving, or imagining, the universe not existing, how can you perceive it at all? If you are perceiving it, then something clearly exists in that picture.
Easy. I imagined a black nothingness that is so black you can't even see it. Just because Santa doesn't exist on this earth doesn't mean he doesn't exist. We live in an infinite universe with infinite dimensions.
How does something that exist in another dimension in any way relevant to things that exist in ours? And what proof of infinite universes to you have? At most it's a speculative theory. Refer to the first post. You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing. We are multidimensional beings. All thoughts you connect to are different dimensions that you channel, so it's very relevant. In fact we are constantly shifting dimensions at every waking moment, whether you're aware of it or not. How great each dimensional leap you make is is up to you. Proof of an infinite universe? Look around, how can the universe not be infinite? Even if we live in a bubble, there will still be something outside that bubble, forever and ever. Space aside, if you are able to tune your mind to different frequencies, you would see there are infinite dimensions right where you sit. Everything exists everywhere. |
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Just because Santa doesn't exist on this earth doesn't mean he doesn't exist. We live in an infinite universe with infinite dimensions.
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I didn't say that either, now it seems you're just trolling me.
Generally speaking, however, the thought of eternal peace brings a lot more peace in one's life than the thought of cessation of existence, from my experience at both ends of the spectrum. Contemplating the later as a young kid, I can say the reason it invoked so much fear into me is because the whole concept doesn't make a smidge of sense.
And ignoring death does not mean you have confronted your fear of death. For when death comes for you and you can no longer ignore it, that is the time that really matters, you'll either embrace it or fear it.
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I can definitely see them pushing atheism onto the masses though. Why would they want to give a population they wish to enslave hope? Why would they want them to become fearless of death? Fear is what drives their power and fear, or negativity, is the basis of atheism (I don't think there's a god, I don't think that's possible, etc.)
Atheists can't have hope? Fuck you, dank. I'll hope when I want, where I want, and with whomever I want. Don't try to tell me I can't hope. I hope all the time, and probably more than you. Stop trying to tell me what I can and can't do. You're not the boss of me. "Religious people can't have hope". There, I've said it. How do you like it, huh? Not so keen on being told what do? Or are you just going to go off now and not hope anymore? Did I say that? If you read the context of my word, I'm saying that spirituality or god gives people hope, it gives people peace even as they walk through the pits of hell. From my perspective, when I was an atheist, I lost hope in life. I became quite depressed at the thought that we just work to live for our whole life and then die into oblivion and that's the end. Please don't skew my words, I did not say atheists can't have hope. I'm simply stating that when you overcome fear of death and understand the eternal nature of our being, there really is nothing to fear. And that is powerful. How does a tyrant control a population that doesn't fear death? |
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First of all: "Illiminati" are not bad or satanic or whatever.
They are the Builders of the Ideal Society.
And they are building the Totalitarian Socialist World State because they think that the people of the world do not deserve freedom.
And they are right for the majority of the world population are uneducated and need big brother to watch for them.
But... there are educated men among the people of the world. The 3%. Narrow is the way...
What part of a totalitarian socialist society screams good to you? I don't really enjoy when another person claims to be my supreme overlord. I've contemplated this myself, I see how they are an enlightened group of beings, but I cannot completely see how they have good intentions for earth. If they really wanted to build the ideal society, they would share all of their ancient knowledge and peacefully remove this fear/greed based society for a love based society. Which means stop perpetuating wars, stop perpetuating monetary based society, and stop perpetuating inequality and elitism. We could quite literally turn this world of hell into heaven on earth, without revolution, if we just grew up as a race. But as it stands, I don't see them doing this. I don't see them wanting this. Nazism was a political ideology, but devil worshipping is just another religion. Why call some good and some bad?
Point is, Illuminati were anti-religious atheists, so they wouldn't have been devil worshipers either, just as Nazis were extremely nationalistic, so they wouldn't be for the idea of taking down the government they so adamantly supported. Atheism is practically 'devil' worshiping. (Yeah, I know I'm gonna set someone off with this one). But look at it from this perspective: the devil is ego, god is soul. Ego is material, soul is energy. Illuminati built an empire the revolves around materialistic ideology and science, study of the physical, measurable universe. A society that is based off fear, greed and hatred. And look where it's leading us; complete annihilation of our planet. Less we change our path, which we can do, are doing and with faith, will do. And to be honest, I don't buy that the head of illuminati are atheist at all, for if they are truly illuminated they will believe in god. My limited experience talking to freemasonry descendants reasserts this point, them calling me the oracle and all. I can definitely see them pushing atheism onto the masses though. Why would they want to give a population they wish to enslave hope? Why would they want them to become fearless of death? Fear is what drives their power and fear, or negativity, is the basis of atheism (I don't think there's a god, I don't think that's possible, etc.) |
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If you are perceiving, or imagining, the universe not existing, how can you perceive it at all? If you are perceiving it, then something clearly exists in that picture.
Do you see how that statement is illogical? The universe exists for the universe is everything. To say everything is nothing or the universe doesn't exist is a complete fallacy.
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Replace the word god with universe and say that statement again.
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I addressed this in the first post. "you may perceive atheism to exist, though the basis of atheism itself does not exist."
The point of this thread was to show how atheism is a fallacious belief system because it is based off negatives, or false beliefs. I cannot help if you chose to believe in negative constraints to your reality.
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