Atheism does not exist

[tspacepilot]

If you are perceiving, or imagining, the universe not existing, how can you perceive it at all?  If you are perceiving it, then something clearly exists in that picture.

Damn, dank stumbled across the primary Cartesian observation.  He's right for once.  Dank imagines therefore he exists!

Do you see how that statement is illogical?  The universe exists for the universe is everything.  To say everything is nothing or the universe doesn't exist is a complete fallacy.

OK, now he's back to nonesense...I enjoyed the moment of clarity while it lasted.

[SirLolicon]

Atheism is knowing but not acknowledging there is a god, therefore it defeats the purpose of having an atheist in the first place.

[organofcorti]

Atheism is knowing but not acknowledging there is a god, therefore it defeats the purpose of having an atheist in the first place.

Bullsheeee-it.

Atheism is not having a reason to believe there is a God. Prove God's existence to me and maybe then I'll be religious. Just like I won't believe in Santa Claus until you provide some conclusive proof.

"asanta is knowing but not acknowledging there is a Santa, therefore it defeats the purpose of having an asanta in the first place."

Still sound ok?

[richo262]

To further add to the Santa analogy.

I woke up with presents under the tree, and I have been told by the people I trust and through ritual yearly discussions that it was in fact a fat man in a suit that came through the chimney.

Therefore, I refuse to apply logic and sense, and will take the minuscule evidence (that presents exist) and use it to validate ludicrous claims that have been drilled into me throughout my early childhood, instead of using a more reasoned application of logic and sense (that comes with brain development) and find the most compelling and realistic theory.

The only real difference between the God/Jesus and Santa stories is all children eventually let go of the Santa story.

[dank]

Just because Santa doesn't exist on this earth doesn't mean he doesn't exist.  We live in an infinite universe with infinite dimensions.

[Rassah]

If you are perceiving, or imagining, the universe not existing, how can you perceive it at all?  If you are perceiving it, then something clearly exists in that picture.

Easy. I imagined a black nothingness that is so black you can't even see it.

Just because Santa doesn't exist on this earth doesn't mean he doesn't exist.  We live in an infinite universe with infinite dimensions.

How does something that exist in another dimension in any way relevant to things that exist in ours? And what proof of infinite universes to you have? At most it's a speculative theory.

[dank]

If you are perceiving, or imagining, the universe not existing, how can you perceive it at all?  If you are perceiving it, then something clearly exists in that picture.

Easy. I imagined a black nothingness that is so black you can't even see it.

Just because Santa doesn't exist on this earth doesn't mean he doesn't exist.  We live in an infinite universe with infinite dimensions.

How does something that exist in another dimension in any way relevant to things that exist in ours? And what proof of infinite universes to you have? At most it's a speculative theory.

Refer to the first post.  You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.

We are multidimensional beings.  All thoughts you connect to are different dimensions that you channel, so it's very relevant.  In fact we are constantly shifting dimensions at every waking moment, whether you're aware of it or not.  How great each dimensional leap you make is is up to you.

Proof of an infinite universe?  Look around, how can the universe not be infinite?  Even if we live in a bubble, there will still be something outside that bubble, forever and ever.  Space aside, if you are able to tune your mind to different frequencies, you would see there are infinite dimensions right where you sit.  Everything exists everywhere.

[organofcorti]

Refer to the first post.  You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.

Incorrect. Anyone who has received a sufficiently damaging brain trauma will be unable to perceive anything.

[Rassah]

Refer to the first post.  You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.

But... I can. I can quite literally make myself percieve nothing. Does that mean that nothing exists?

[dank]

Refer to the first post.  You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.

Incorrect. Anyone who has received a sufficiently damaging brain trauma will be unable to perceive anything.

...and you know this from first hand experience?

[dank]

Refer to the first post.  You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.

But... I can. I can quite literally make myself percieve nothing. Does that mean that nothing exists?

You're not making yourself perceive nothing, you're making yourself perceive a conceptualization of nothing.  Again, how could you perceive nothing if you are there perceiving it?

[organofcorti]

Refer to the first post.  You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.

Incorrect. Anyone who has received a sufficiently damaging brain trauma will be unable to perceive anything.

...and you know this from first hand experience?

Personally, no. But if you remove someone's brain from the brainstem up, I guarantee they will be able to perceive nothing. They will have no perceptual organ left.

[dank]

Your brain is but a tool that connects your true self (consciousness) to the world.

[Rassah]

Refer to the first post.  You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.

But... I can. I can quite literally make myself percieve nothing. Does that mean that nothing exists?

You're not making yourself perceive nothing, you're making yourself perceive a conceptualization of nothing.  Again, how could you perceive nothing if you are there perceiving it?

I turn off, or rather actively ignore, all my senses, and stop myself from thinking about anything at all. Completely blank mind. So, yes, I am perceiving nothing, meaning there is nothing in the universe.

[pungopete468]

It looks like this is going nowhere...

Extreme -
Atheist - There is no such thing as god. You can prove it to me be beyond a reasonable doubt; I will refuse to acknowledge your proof and I would rather kill you than believe in god.

* Everything in between

Middle -
Agnostic - I was born an inquisitive being; I learn things using a scientific process. I would believe in god if you could prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that god existed; likewise, I would accept that god might not exist. If I die and go to heaven; great. If I die and just cease to exist; then that's just how it is...

* Everything in between

Extreme -
Religious - God is absolutely real. I don't have to prove it because I believe it and I want to force you to believe it in order to "save your soul." I will die if I must in order to force you to believe in god.

From the perspective of existence the OP is correct; existence is eternal. However; only that which existed before the big bang is infinite. Eternity will eventually end and this eternal plane will no longer exist.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed from within our Universe. This indicates a lack of equilibrium and hints that an inverse of energy must exist for existence to be possible. Equilibrium is infinite until acted upon by an external force. Recent tests at the Hadron Particle Accelerator reveal that when an atomic particle is "smashed," the pieces can no longer exist and form a black hole. The creation of a black hole at such low energies is indicative of an alternate plane containing the inverse of energy and mass. Black holes are the equilibrium of energy.

http://www.livescience.com/27811-creating-mini-black-holes.html

http://www.livescience.com/27888-newfound-particle-is-higgs.html

[dank]

Refer to the first post.  You may perceive nothingness but you can not perceive nothing.

But... I can. I can quite literally make myself percieve nothing. Does that mean that nothing exists?

You're not making yourself perceive nothing, you're making yourself perceive a conceptualization of nothing.  Again, how could you perceive nothing if you are there perceiving it?

I turn off, or rather actively ignore, all my senses, and stop myself from thinking about anything at all. Completely blank mind. So, yes, I am perceiving nothing, meaning there is nothing in the universe.

If you are perceiving nothing, no perceiving can take place.  What you are perceiving is nothingness.

Even if you're meditating as you say, which I have practiced letting go of my senses, you're still perceiving everything rather than nothing.  You still hear your heart beat, your breath, see the colors in your eyes.  You are just becoming one with it all, transcending beyond the physical realm of what we perceive something to be and into a state of unity with the surrounding energies.  Absorbing and merging with the very noise of the universe, if you will.

You should try astral projection if you really are practicing letting go as you say.

[Rassah]

Energy cannot be created or destroyed from within our Universe. This indicates a lack of equilibrium and hints that an inverse of energy must exist for existence to be possible.

And it does! Even before the hadron Collider experiments, we figured out that there are equal parts matter and antimatter in our universe. You put everything together, and it will all cancel each other out. Hadron Collider experiments substantiated that by showing that mini big bangs happen on a quantum level, which also have both matter and antimatter.

[organofcorti]

Your brain is but a tool that connects your true self (consciousness) to the world.

There is as much proof that an non-physical spirit exists as a god-like being exists.

[Rassah]

If you are perceiving nothing, no perceiving can take place.  What you are perceiving is nothingness.

Even if you're meditating as you say, which I have practiced letting go of my senses, you're still perceiving everything rather than nothing.  You still hear your heart beat, your breath, see the colors in your eyes.  You are just becoming one with it all, transcending beyond the physical realm of what we perceive something to be and into a state of unity with the surrounding energies.  Absorbing and merging with the very noise of the universe, if you will.

Yes, I am "perceiving" nothingness, which means the universe is nothing. When I do that, I don't hear anything, see anything, or feel anything. No colors, no sounds, not even pitch black emptiness. I just turn off my mind, and get nothing from my outer senses, and no thoughts in my mind. I just can't do it for very long.

[dank]

Your brain is but a tool that connects your true self (consciousness) to the world.

There is as much proof that an non-physical spirit exists as a god-like being exists.

You clearly have never had an OBE (outer body experience).

Rassah, if you want to believe the universe is nothing, that's fine.  From my experience there is much more peace to be felt by believing in something rather than nothing.

Regarding perceiving nothing, if you were to somehow perceive nothing, you would be unaware you perceived nothing, thus, it would never have happened, for, for you to perceive nothing, your perception would have to cease completely and you would have no recollection of perceiving nothing.  I sorta have this feeling that you're just pulling strings to defend your perspective, but I'll take your word.