So, what can I do with the master coins I have right now?
As of right now, buying and selling them as far as I know (via project milestones on post #2), though I believe there are no similar tools like bitcoin-d yet? As such, I'm not sure what the actual process of transferring ownership is at the moment. People will either buy or sell based on what future potential they see in MSC. MasterCoin Buyer/Seller Thread |
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To my knowledge, nothing we are doing breaks any laws. We are building tools, which users could use to break laws, just like any tool.
Carefully consider why Satoshi took great pains to be anonymous. Do you really think that anything built upon your 'protocol' won't be subject to reprisal? If anything, it will be a "live" simulation of how governments react when they have a target. You're either horribly naive, or fatally idealistic to think this is going to end well. First amendment protects us to create these neutral tools. We have no criminal intent by creating Mastercoin, it's not like we created it on the sole, primary, or with even any intention to break laws, which I believe a prosecutor would have to show. In any regard, JR getting snuffed legally seems very unlikely and trivially defendable. I suppose that you're alluding to recent events, and that is a very real threat by "fatally idealistic", but in the end, considering likelihoods of various risks, JR, would you agree that Mastercoin is too important not to press on? |
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i can't find contact info though, i want to ask if i can join
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I'm more interested in joining.
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I like it.
By the way, off topic, but Goat, would you recommend studying abroad in Thailand? Anywhere in particular?
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It's been a terribly long last few months for me and I can't even begin to describe what it was like... But my apologies regardless.
I think the august 8th picture with the badger being a little shorter, and the two guys doing something different with their free hands other than flipping people off would be nice. Not sure what.
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We need more working, functioning developments on mastercoin before we do too much with a video I think. Ie at least the exchange and another milestone that exemplifies what the protocol will allow.
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where do all these fines go... |
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Let's run the contest as expected and let the best men win, which at the moment is tachikoma? At least the others will have a chance to compete against the already high bar that's set, and we'll get more quality efforts as a result.
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Exchange is down?
kinda, give it time |
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crumbs, let us not forget your original supposition.
you said that b/c HF was using BTC-only tx's, this was BAD for the Bitcoin economy.
this is wrong.
stay on track please.
No. Now you're simply lying. You said that HashFast was helping the bitcoin economy by only allowing bitcoin transactions. I said that it was not. Don't make me dig through the thread & pull the quote. Try to be honest in cases where your lying will be *immediately exposed.* I mean *minutes.* who's lying? who put in big bold lettering somewhere above " Bad Thing"? Oh, please try harder  ...
the only counterpoint i'd make is that HF, by only accepting BTC, has demonstrated a restraint to NOT bring in as much money via pre-orders as the other companies seem not to be able to resist by using cc/pp. they also do want to help the BTC economy by doing it this way. it allows BTC to circulate and change hands to buy real products, not just Alpaca socks.
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This argument is absurd on its face. The BTC will be immediately cashed out to fiat, to pay for expenses, development & production. If that's "circulation," simply cash out your BTC to credit card yourself, then pay with your credit card. It makes no difference to the bitcoin economy who cashes out bitcoins, you or HashFast. Cypherdoc, if you're going to spin, step up your game. Do you want me to go through the thread & put some context on the quote you've pulled out?  EDIT: Full quote that you stripped from content:More BTC on the order books *needing to be sold* is a bad thing, Cypherdoc. Learn how to lying It is a good thing. Greater distribution of coins from the holders that traded their coins for miners. |
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So? I use bitcoin as an investment and a savings account. Sometimes I buy goods with it. Sometimes I send money to relatives in developing countries using it. It's not just a currency. LOL are you serious, I honestly can't tell. Let me reword your sentence to see if it helps you understand what you are trying to say. So? I use fiat as an investment and a savings account. Sometimes I buy goods with it. Sometimes I send money to relatives in developing countries using it. It's not just a currency. I do not see holding USD as an investment. Maybe in Argentina. Bitcoin is not simply currency because I use it as an investment and a way to transcend traditional financial barriers. Is land a currency? Is a stock a currency? Is an ETF a currency? Is gold JUST a currency, or is it more? |
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So? I use bitcoin as an investment and a savings account. Sometimes I buy goods with it. Sometimes I send money to relatives in developing countries using it. It's not just a currency. |
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this brings up an interesting point that applies to all of these companies.
you seem to have been arguing from the beginning that cc/pp are acting as some sort of insurance company that will take responsibility for providing FULL refunds if KNC scams everyone and takes off with their money. nothing is further from the truth. if KNC is able to get away with everyone's money and removes it from their bank accounts, the cc/pp companies have nowhere to go to retrieve those monies.
you'll be left with a loss.
That isn't even remotely true. Credit card debt is a LOAN. You don't actually lose anything until you pay down your card debt, and you're not contractually obligated to pay that debt if you didn't get what you paid for, within a certain time frame. The bank loses the money, not you. Insurance is exactly what it is. many moving parts here. i happen to pay off my cc right when i incur the "debt" so i look at this differently than you do. as for what Bitcoinorama posted earlier, that coverage will be limited and will vary depend on where you are. in a worst case scenario where a company absconds with your money and the cc/pp has no avenue to recover said money, you will take a loss. No. You're straight up factually wrong. If the bank does not recover your money, they will cover it themselves. That's in the contract you sign when you sign up, and I'm pretty sure it's the law. The bank loses the money, not you. If you have a zero balance on your CC then your debt will go negative. The bank can basically create money out of thin air, and they consider things like this to be a cost of doing business, easily covered by all the fees and interest they collect on CCs. Chargebacks are typically charged to the merchant, with a fee |
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When your hoarded coins in cold storage are spent for a miner, either by paying HF for them to sell, or selling your coins directly on an exchange, you increase velocity, eventually. Your coins get sold to someone, they'll sooner or later do something with them.
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^I'd say everything that comprises bitcoin right now is much more than 1B, ie the Network. Market cap (ie shares*$spot) does not equal valuation.
For one, you cannot sell 11.5M bitcoins for $1B at market. Slippage. Same thing with buying $1B. You can't just raise the price 100% doing that, the price would be much much higher. Might be more cost effective to buy a mining monopoly instead.
In that case, the market cap is far more than the actual value (hence the term "cap). If there was a major sell, the price would drop. So realistically, the BTC economy is worth less than the 1.3 billion that it is valued at. You're forgetting all the services, goods for sale, goods wanted, worth of the participation in the protocol, ongoing investments, etc. everything you can do with bitcoin is tied into its worth, but not its market cap. Market caps can be misleading and do not tell the whole picture For instance, bitcoin allows me to send money, past borders, anywhere in the world, securely, for pennies. Is that reflected in the market cap? Could I not do the same thing when bitcoin was worth $10? What was its market cap then? I value the sort of network that can allow me to do that, but outstanding bitcoins*spot is not the way to value that. Because ANYONE can use bitcoin to do the above, I value bitcoin much more than its market cap for that reason. If I could buy bitcoin outright for a billion I would |
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Cypher, if you have time, can you please get to my two questions at the bottom of the 20th page?
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Otoh told me Capricorn :/
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Wrong paradigm to have. Please reconsider. Trading isn't as random as you may be led to believe. It's less and less stochastic the more you zoom out. Day trading however will kill your capital, just from commissions alone. Have fun figuring out a way to mechanically be greater than 50% right including commission. There is an art to knowing what side to be on in a market. Identifying that side on an intermediate-long term time frame will be your best friend.
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^I'd say everything that comprises bitcoin right now is much more than 1B, ie the Network. Market cap (ie shares*$spot) does not equal valuation.
For one, you cannot sell 11.5M bitcoins for $1B at market. Slippage. Same thing with buying $1B. You can't just raise the price 100% doing that, the price would be much much higher. Might be more cost effective to buy a mining monopoly instead.
Lol, sell 11.5 mil BTC at market? In the unlikely event that every single person holding BTC decided to sell at once, the price of BTC would drop to sub-single digits, that's slippage As far as buying up all the coinz? What idiot would try that with a single buy order? It's a thought exercise, maybe you should try it sometime. |
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