Regardless of the sticky issue of the user funds (which is really my chief concern here and where my vested interest lies), can we get some action on the share ownership database?
Let's see that get distributed to some trusted part(ies) who can break up the data into one set per asset issuer and hand that data over to each issuer (please).
Is there any reason not to move forward on that front?
+100 - this will allow issuer and holders to start going over options. |
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Nothing returned yet, no reply from their email.
More importantly how are we going to get our shares returned?
Hopefully a balance will be sent to both asset holders and issuers. At that point, asset holders will need to contact the issuers directly and see what their plans are. Some will move exchanges and try to re-establish, some with wind-down, some may say "kiss me" and other might do thinks like go pink-sheet. That will really be up to the issuer, but until people can get a closing balance, it makes that prospect almost impossible with major risk to both parties. |
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I'm now ignored for pointing out complete lies like this one: Must not have been these funds. May we have the public address of said paper wallet please, so that we may keep an eye on them? I don't see any reason why this cannot be released. 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz The funds tied to that address are now in control of BG's secretary. Which is bullshit, why send ~800btc more to be controlled by Nefario when he already has ~8000btc of illegally obtained funds?
What will giving Nefario ~800btc more do that he couldn't have done with the ~8000btc?
As I said, the funds were sent to the secretary, not Nefario. He only accepted them reluctantly (rather than have Theymos keep them) so that Nefario would have no reason to not begin dispersing customer funds. People need to wake up and take note of this. I dont see the lie, what is the lie here? Your missing the point, it doesn't matter. What matters is that people funds are being held for pretty "thin" reasons and issuers have been given the ability to just do nothing because they don't have the records they need to move forward. All this "he said" "she said" is dancing around the real issue and it is serving as a distraction. Let quit pretending to know what happened in their GBLSE shareholder meetings. Theymos said his peace and is taking his action at this point until he get clarity along with the rest of us. Nefario needs to make a statement and make good on his obligations. Sure it was odd timing on when the GBLSE shares went on the market but we don't know what was going on behind the scenes and unless you actually bought some, quit complaining. We need to push for the right thing to happen and that is people getting paid back and issuers being able to meet their obligations. I feel so bad for all the users of the GBLSE. I really do feel bad for you right now, I wish I would put on more pressure to get things moving. |
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I'd rather let hundreds of scam threads exist than remove one non-scam thread by accident. Maybe someone will figure out how to legitimately pay 7% interest weekly someday; who knows? It's not the place of moderators to decide which products/investments are good and which are bad. Buyers must decide for themselves who to trust.
Yes there is truth to that but we should also acknowledge that we are using a "fixed asset" so anyone offering a commitment on a ongoing basis with any meaningful amount of interest is a scam just because if you do the basic exponent math using the rate offered, you can see the date where this operation will need to own all the coins that exist. For Pirate, it was a little over 12 months. Obvious scams should be removed and taken serious. This forum is at the epicenter of the Bitcoin movement, the position should not be just let scammer operate until they have stolen and tell people to do your diligence while people who have vested interests in seeing these scams work (ie: early investors) go on and try to discredit real skepticism that is warranted. If we push back on having this stance, in a sense we are condoning it by letting it happen and having such weak rules on it. |
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Hopefully the website will be brought back up with trading and deposits disabled, so people can go in and withdrawal BTC and have an up-to-date account of securities. It would be best for users that way. Sending a bunch of emails requesting deposit addresses sounds much more likely to lead to trouble.
That is quite logical but if it is believe that he was told to shutdown immediately with no return, that might break terms of any deal he has. What likely will happen if Nefario is acting in "good faith", he will get the information he request, send all deposit back to their owners with asset position information and send last price and asset holders to the issuers and then announce that the GBLSE has been wound-down and then at the point, people would need to contact the issuers directly and see what the plans are from each issuer. |
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At this point, Nefario should make a public statement on the status or start paying out deposit funds REGARDLESS if CHM or Theymos sent him what looks to be 9% of the total funds on deposit.
He could try and play that game with Goat but this is too far. If this doesn't happen very soon then we should conclude that either he is keeping them or they have been seized.
I know people are upset and don't like this answer but in the end, we need to root out all the scammy activities in Bitcoin and this forum if we want to move forward and create an environment where real business interests can prosper.
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Price?  |
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I'm late the game, so I hope I'm not repeating something that has already been discussed to death...
Anyway, here's what I think: Bitcoin is a "zero sum game" only if you exclude everything else. The "zero sum game" scenario assumes that 100% of the BTC in the world is sitting in bank accounts collecting interest. That is not possible, of course. As the OP has probably pointed out, if all the BTC in the world is just being used to collect interest, then there is no way to pay interest. Also, in this scenario, BTC has no value since it is not being exchanged.
The real story is that BTC is used to exchange assets. If the total value of assets in the world increases, then there is no problem with interest -- interest effectively means that one asset is exchanged later for another asset of higher value.
It is a zero-sum game in the fact that it is a fixed asset. A known and fixed quantity is known to participates in advance to any investment activity. Yes people can assign a high value for a BTC in the open market by bidding up the price until someone accepts your offer but someone needs to sell BTC for anyone to get BTC. That is also why I see Bitcoin as more of a "wealth reserve assets" ie real savings more than an actually currency even though it can act as both at the same time. |
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That is what they claim, however the true motive is quite obviously revenge on Nefario for blowing the whistle and preventing Theymos from dumping the stock on the forums. Had Nefario allowed that final scam to go through, Theymos would never have complained just like he never complained before about the illegal activity they were engaged in.
Rarity - How is it "obvious" that was the true motivation? It is a theory but it is not obvious. Also Nefario said this was a majority of his income so why would he kill his proverbial "golden goose" on purpose? From what we can find in public record, would support that he tried to go legit and got shut down OR he had something other game plan going and this was part of it. |
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Interesting turn of events from a personal dispute to complete shutdown.
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-Its own domain name that it doesn't share with a romanian porn site (I mean really, nice image).
Peeps, just please stop repeating this cliche. Conglomerate domains have their tactical uses, in this case as probably as a anti-filtering and anti-takedown measure. I don't have a specific knowledge about polimedia.us and Romania; but a conglomerate domain that would host a bitcoin securities exchange and a financial news site would have a very good prior restraint defense against stupid takedowns. In Europe this tactic worked for the users of LiveJournal and many other traditional publishers. This "dedicated domain name" really is a cheapo marketing shibboleth. If you don't believe me, read the post of the local hit&run marketing expert: reeses. Of course I have to quote it in full, since reeses always doing the purge of his posts before he runs. The owner of mpex hosts it on his servers. Just search the forums lots of people reference it.
It is kind of silly not to have a dedicated domain for mpex. However, while there is pr0ns available via the same hostname, there is no child pornography there. That's just an added level of "eww" made up by ciuciu when "he also hosts porn" didn't have any effect. It also hosts a boring blog in moon-man gibberish. None of the people claiming there is child pornography on the site has been able to provide evidence beyond,"Look for yourself," which you can understand my unwillingness to do. It's a romanian 4chan, so weird shit pops up from the members. Hmm...first bitcoin bank of 4chan... With the heat Bitcoin is taking the hosting of pornographic material is a liability and an un-needed risk for the exchange on all its participates. |
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I don't want to pester Matthewh3 or Nefario, I just want to know where am I supposed to submit my data to have my funds back.
Bottomline is that you will need to contact Nefario being that he was CEO. As for Matthewh3, I wouldn't of posted this if he didn't come out and start making semi-official updates on GBLSE & Nefario's behalf. |
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We already know why pirate wanted identified PPTs holders ...
Yep, sounds to me like the SEC got to Pirate first (how could they not? his ID was all over here) and have then proceeded to go looking into GLBSE. There's going to be some serious profiling going on I think. correct me if I am wrong (I am sure someone will  ) SEC = USA Nefario is in England maybe the British counterpart? It is the FSA (Financial Service Authority). What people don't understand is that the SEC & FSA have a very tight working relationship and will bring charges for each other in the different countries. |
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So how can I contact Nefario now? can't pm him and he left no contact details in the site.
Matthewh3 seems to be in contact with him and have been posting updates on various posts. Try contacting him. |
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Last night I found out about the announcement on GBLSE's website. A thread addressing a possible scammer tag was taking place (14 pages of response at the time). Many users had questions about the shutdown and was waiting to hear from Nefario. Then the most interesting thing happened. Below are the updates we have gotten so far from their unofficial spokesperson Matthewh3. He seems to be in communication with Nefario. Please direct your comments at Matthewh3 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=44583 for updates: 1. Re: Nefario
October 06, 2012, 08:20:41 PMMatthewh3 - " No GLBSE coins not users coins. He hasn't touched a single satoshi of users monies. He hasn't even paid a penny in legal fees yet. It's only fair that GLBSE (profit) coins should used to solve GLBSE legal problems. Nafario as already lost the way he made his living. Expecting him to cover GLBSE legal fees personally to benefit the other shareholders or else a scammer tag deserves a scammer tag." 2. Re: Nefario
October 06, 2012, 08:25:33 PMMatthewh3 - " No Nafario told me on the phone he's had to shut down to avoid (possible) jail time for helping to fund terrorism and helping money laundering never mind all the tax issues." 3. Re: Nefario
October 06, 2012, 08:51:42 PMMatthewh3 - " Nafario said on the phone he has been made some very generous offers for the source-code. Also the owner of the LTC-Global said he was selling his source-code too." 4. Re: Nefario
October 06, 2012, 08:56:07 PMMatthewh3 - " All users coins on the GLBSE is safe and untouched. Nafario wants to return them as soon as possible as they are a legal liability to him. He also said he will soon have a way for asset issuers to pay dividends but not trade shares. " 5. Re: Nefario
October 06, 2012, 09:15:07 PM Matthewh3 - " I think he will need full legal ID to pay back coins and shares. Otherwise he risks being charged with possible money laundering and/or funding terrorism. Tho he won't disclose that information unless requested by the government/police." 6. Re: Nefario
October 06, 2012, 09:32:49 PMMatthewh3 - " Maybe not to you but I think that's what Nafario's lawyer has told him is his get out of jail card for possible criminal charges. This is not about stealing coins. The GLBSE was where Nafario made his living and he didn't shut it down for the sake of shooting himself in the foot to steal coins. As I stated he's working on a withdrawal process to comply with AML rules and will soon have a way for asset issuers to pay dividends but not trade shares." 7. Re: Nefario
October 06, 2012, 09:44:05 PMMatthewh3 - " It's just like when MtGox forced AML on people who wanted to withdraw. Nafario doesn't do it and he has a very real risk of going to jail."
Announcement from GBLSE.com:"GLBSE has been closed I'm sorry to inform all our users that GLBSE is no longer able to continue operating, and has now closed. Q: What does this mean if I'm an issuer? We will do everything in our power to make the process of moving off GLBSE as smooth as possible, we are currently working on a simple, safe, and easy to use method that will allow you to continue your relationship with your asset holders Q: I'm a GLBSE user, what about my assets and my bitcoin? You will be able to get back your bitcoin, and if you want to reveal your username, email, and a bitcoin address to accept payments with, you can continue your relationship with the issuer of any assets you hold. We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order. " |
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We are also friends and I was digging information not just for myself but on the request of some others.
Then you should be able to tell us whether or not he's shut down GBLSE in response to an immediate threat of prosecution by a regulatory authority or whether it's simply a pre-emptive move because consulting a lawyer about "legitimising" GBLSE made him aware of the enormity of the risks he was taking by facilitating anonymous trading of unregistered securities. There is simply no excuse for him not providing this information to shareholders, even if you believe that issuers and users aren't entitled to that information. If he's not providing that information because he's been advised not to by his lawyer, then he needs to state that. If he says nothing, people are going to assume that GBSLE is under active investigation and that Nefario is co-operating with the authorities by helping them to obtain evidence which may be used to prosecute the issuers of unregistered securities (and possibly their users). If GBLSE is under active investigation, issuers can be expected to throw Nefario under a bus and claim that they relied on his assurances that their assets were legal because the exchange was operated outside of the US and ...Bitcoin. At this point, it does matter whether the closure of GBLSE was pre-emptive or not. People are going to assume the worst if it's not clarified and it's reasonable for them to do so. I think Nafario has contacted all major shareholders and won a motion to stay CEO as well. I run RSM and in no way did he hint I'm under investegation. I even offered to proxy ID for the IBB (who wishes to remain anonymous) assets and coins and he only warned me of potential problem arising from future investigations into his accounts and didn't tell me not to do it just only advised me on any future potential pitfalls.
MatthewH3 - Again here you are giving us the inside scoop??? Also his usename is N efario. Also what do you mean by "I think Nafario has contacted all major shareholders and won a motion to stay CEO as well". It is so interesting you have all this info but the person whole should be making official statements is no where to be found? |
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Pirate asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. Never gives the money up.
Nefario asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. (predictable result goes here)
Why are you stating that Nefario asks for AML info? All I've seen is the GLBSE statement posted today on their Web site saying that if you are willing them to share your email, user name, and a btc address with the issuers, you can continue your relationship with the issuers (presumably based on claim codes GLBSE will provide). That's all the information available as of today. No need to spread FUD. I could find quite a bit out about you if I had those items and access to a few systems I know of. |
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Did this just get added to GBLSE?
We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.
Im confused, didnt theymos say they want to agree to this too?
This was there when the statement was first posted. Nef is using strong words to try and get Theymos to give him these monies, which are really our monies.IMO, any monies he sends to Nef we can all kiss goodbye. I want for Theymos to step up, and agree to manage the dispersal of customer funds. He has shown himself to be far more forthright than mr. Nef, and is treasurer after all. Giving over the treasury funds to Nef now after all that has happened is highly unlikely to result in a happy ending for us users IMO. Theymos, I understand that your position sucks, and you just want out of it, like you did even before this whole situation exploded. Unfortunately, you're our only hope, and the funds that you hold are valuable leverage. Please do not give our monies over to Nefario! Instead, demand a copy of the user database, and manage the dispersals yourself, as a proper Treasurer should. No GLBSE coins not users coins. He hasn't touched a single satoshi of users monies. He hasn't even paid a penny in legal fees yet. It's only fair that GLBSE (profit) coins should used to solve GLBSE legal problems. Nafario as already lost the way he made his living. Expecting him to cover GLBSE legal fees personally to benefit the other shareholders or else a scammer tag deserves a scammer tag. - Why are YOU making these claims and not Nefario (btw you mis-spelled his name twice above). I remember when people claimed to be talking to Pirate and how it was all good and nothing is wrong. Nefario should be making these statements, not you unless their is some reason we don't know that makes this the case, then, please do tell. |
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It will only be illegal if its not shut down. It currently isnt illegal.
If nefario has been told to shut it down and complies there is no issue.
Rubbish. He can still be charged over the period he was operating the exchange illegally, although the penalties would most likely be administrative. Whether the FSA/SEC or whomever would actually pursue charges is a different issue but we're not talking about a restraining order/injunction here where the obligation to refrain from a behaviour doesn't start until a legal request to desist is issued and non-compliance with that request creates the illegality. Most likely, he has a deal and stipulates him shutting down in this harsh manner to exempt himself from liability and criminal prosecution. I said the same thing when Pirate shut down then started asking for information. Standard practice. |
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