Nefario

[Justin00]

what happens if people dont send in the ID, does Nefario get to keep the BTC.......... ?

[repentance]

By "accountant", do you mean someone with an actual accounting qualification and accounting practice who has been engaged by BG in a professional capacity?  If so, then hand the funds over - if they're mishandled by a licensed professional then people have recourse through professional indemnity insurance.

No, the BitcoinGlobal officer in charge of accounting.

Fuck me drunk.  What the hell is with all of these Bitcoin enterprises which are handling hundreds of thousand of dollars worth of other people funds not even having a lawyer or an accountant?  Tell the shareholders and Nefario that you want an instrument drawn up by an actual lawyer which indemnifies you against any liability for losses suffered by users/issuers as a result of you handing over the funds.  If they're going to pay for Nefario's legal costs, then they can pay for a lawyer to draft an indemnity, too.  You have as much right to protect yourself legally as Nefario does.

[Dalkore]

So why do people want to hide their identities?

They value their privacy.  Again.

[Dalkore]

It will only be illegal if its not shut down. It currently isnt illegal.

If nefario has been told to shut it down and complies there is no issue.

Rubbish.  He can still be charged over the period he was operating the exchange illegally, although the penalties would most likely be administrative.  Whether the FSA/SEC or whomever would actually pursue charges is a different issue but we're not talking about a restraining order/injunction here where the obligation to refrain from a behaviour doesn't start until a legal request to desist is issued and non-compliance with that request creates the illegality.  

Most likely, he has a deal and stipulates him shutting down in this harsh manner to exempt himself from liability and criminal prosecution.  I said the same thing when Pirate shut down then started asking for information.  Standard practice.

[theymos]

Tell the shareholders and Nefario that you want an instrument drawn up by an actual lawyer which indemnifies you against any liability for losses suffered by users/issuers as a result of you handing over the funds.  If they're going to pay for Nefario's legal costs, then they can pay for a lawyer to draft an indemnity, too.  You have as much right to protect yourself legally as Nefario does.

That might be a good idea. I'll think about that.

straight out of college

Heh, I'm in college.

[repentance]

Most likely, he has a deal and stipulates him shutting down in this harsh manner to exempt himself from liability and criminal prosecution.  I said the same thing when Pirate shut down then started asking for information.  Standard practice.

If a government authority is the cause of this, then Nefario has not disclosed that to the shareholders or other people with whom he's spoken.  From what people have posted regarding their conversations with him, it seems far more likely that he got spooked when he finally consulted an actual lawyer about "legitimising" GLBSE on Wednesday and learned that all of his "but Bitcoin" claims of GLBSE's activities not being illegal were actually wrong.

Interestingly, despite his claims that GLBSE was doing nothing wrong, the very fact that he spoke in terms of "legitimising" it is an admission that he knew it was not operating legitimately and any competent lawyer would wipe the floor with him over that.

It's extremely unlikely that any government regulator would go after Nefario alone in relation to GLBSE's activities - it's not a sole proprietorship entity.

[Atlas]

Tell the shareholders and Nefario that you want an instrument drawn up by an actual lawyer which indemnifies you against any liability for losses suffered by users/issuers as a result of you handing over the funds.  If they're going to pay for Nefario's legal costs, then they can pay for a lawyer to draft an indemnity, too.  You have as much right to protect yourself legally as Nefario does.

That might be a good idea. I'll think about that.

straight out of college

Heh, I'm in college.

Theymos you really need to take repentance advice. He’s right; you should protect yourself and stop acting as an officer working for GLBSE. You should want to release the funds to someone/anyone and wash your hands of any responsibility.  If the authorities are really looking into GLBSE you want to distance yourself quickly if your only connection was as temporary custodian of one account.

Theymos knows what he's doing. He has his identity covered very well, most likely.

[Dalkore]

Did this just get added to GBLSE?

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.

Im confused, didnt theymos say they want to agree to this too?

This was there when the statement was first posted.

Nef is using strong words to try and get Theymos to give him these monies, which are really our monies.

IMO, any monies he sends to Nef we can all kiss goodbye.

I want for Theymos to step up, and agree to manage the dispersal of customer funds.  He has shown himself to be far more forthright than mr. Nef, and is treasurer after all.  Giving over the treasury funds to Nef now after all that has happened is highly unlikely to result in a happy ending for us users IMO.

Theymos, I understand that your position sucks, and you just want out of it, like you did even before this whole situation exploded.  Unfortunately, you're our only hope, and the funds that you hold are valuable leverage.

Please do not give our monies over to Nefario!  Instead, demand a copy of the user database, and manage the dispersals yourself, as a proper Treasurer should.

No GLBSE coins not users coins.  He hasn't touched a single satoshi of users monies.  He hasn't even paid a penny in legal fees yet.  It's only fair that GLBSE (profit) coins should used to solve GLBSE legal problems.  Nafario as already lost the way he made his living.  Expecting him to cover GLBSE legal fees personally to benefit the other shareholders or else a scammer tag deserves a scammer tag.

Matthewh3 - Why are YOU making these claims and not Nefario (btw you mis-spelled his name twice above).   I remember when people claimed to be talking to Pirate and how it was all good and nothing is wrong.  Nefario should be making these statements, not you unless their is some reason we don't know that makes this the case, then, please do tell.

[repentance]

Theymos you really need to take repentance advice. He’sShe's right; you should protect yourself and stop acting as an officer working for GLBSE. You should want to release the funds to someone/anyone and wash your hands of any responsibility.  If the authorities are really looking into GLBSE you want to distance yourself quickly if your only connection was as temporary custodian of one account.

Amir didn't listen when I told him to get legal advice, either.

[jasinlee]

Did this just get added to GBLSE?

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.

Im confused, didnt theymos say they want to agree to this too?

This was there when the statement was first posted.

Nef is using strong words to try and get Theymos to give him these monies, which are really our monies.

IMO, any monies he sends to Nef we can all kiss goodbye.

I want for Theymos to step up, and agree to manage the dispersal of customer funds.  He has shown himself to be far more forthright than mr. Nef, and is treasurer after all.  Giving over the treasury funds to Nef now after all that has happened is highly unlikely to result in a happy ending for us users IMO.

Theymos, I understand that your position sucks, and you just want out of it, like you did even before this whole situation exploded.  Unfortunately, you're our only hope, and the funds that you hold are valuable leverage.

Please do not give our monies over to Nefario!  Instead, demand a copy of the user database, and manage the dispersals yourself, as a proper Treasurer should.

No GLBSE coins not users coins.  He hasn't touched a single satoshi of users monies.  He hasn't even paid a penny in legal fees yet.  It's only fair that GLBSE (profit) coins should used to solve GLBSE legal problems.  Nafario as already lost the way he made his living.  Expecting him to cover GLBSE legal fees personally to benefit the other shareholders or else a scammer tag deserves a scammer tag.

Matthewh3 - Why are YOU making these claims and not Nefario (btw you mis-spelled his name twice above).   I remember when people claimed to be talking to Pirate and how it was all good and nothing is wrong.  Nefario should be making these statements, not you unless their is some reason we don't know that makes this the case, then, please do tell.

Yes, this does look highly suspect. If we want to hear an reassuring word about glbse's reliability, moral value, ethics blah blah blah, I am sure someone will stick their hand up one of their puppets arse and do exactly that....oh wait.

[niko]

Pirate asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. Never gives the money up.
Nefario asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. (predictable result goes here)

Why are you stating that Nefario asks for AML info? All I've seen is the GLBSE statement posted today on their Web site saying that if you are willing them to share your email, user name, and a btc address with the issuers, you can continue your relationship with the issuers (presumably based on claim codes GLBSE will provide).  That's all the information available as of today. No need to spread FUD.

[Bogart]

Pirate asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. Never gives the money up.
Nefario asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. (predictable result goes here)

Why are you stating that Nefario asks for AML info? All I've seen is the GLBSE statement posted today on their Web site saying that if you are willing them to share your email, user name, and a btc address with the issuers, you can continue your relationship with the issuers (presumably based on claim codes GLBSE will provide).  That's all the information available as of today. No need to spread FUD.

Users will be able to collect deposits only after submitting identity info.

Identity meaning what exactly?  Will my login credentials and deposit address suffice?

MtGox-style AML documents.

[Dalkore]

Pirate asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. Never gives the money up.
Nefario asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. (predictable result goes here)

Why are you stating that Nefario asks for AML info? All I've seen is the GLBSE statement posted today on their Web site saying that if you are willing them to share your email, user name, and a btc address with the issuers, you can continue your relationship with the issuers (presumably based on claim codes GLBSE will provide).  That's all the information available as of today. No need to spread FUD.

I could find quite a bit out about you if I had those items and access to a few systems I know of.

[niko]

Pirate asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. Never gives the money up.
Nefario asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. (predictable result goes here)

Why are you stating that Nefario asks for AML info? All I've seen is the GLBSE statement posted today on their Web site saying that if you are willing them to share your email, user name, and a btc address with the issuers, you can continue your relationship with the issuers (presumably based on claim codes GLBSE will provide).  That's all the information available as of today. No need to spread FUD.

Users will be able to collect deposits only after submitting identity info.

Identity meaning what exactly?  Will my login credentials and deposit address suffice?

MtGox-style AML documents.

This contradicts what Nefario put on the home page:

Q:I'm a GLBSE user, what about my assets and my bitcoin?

You will be able to get back your bitcoin, and if you want to reveal your username, email, and a bitcoin address to accept payments with, you can continue your relationship with the issuer of any assets you hold.

[Bogart]

Pirate asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. Never gives the money up.
Nefario asks for AML info before he'll give the money up. (predictable result goes here)

Why are you stating that Nefario asks for AML info? All I've seen is the GLBSE statement posted today on their Web site saying that if you are willing them to share your email, user name, and a btc address with the issuers, you can continue your relationship with the issuers (presumably based on claim codes GLBSE will provide).  That's all the information available as of today. No need to spread FUD.

Users will be able to collect deposits only after submitting identity info.

Identity meaning what exactly?  Will my login credentials and deposit address suffice?

MtGox-style AML documents.

This contradicts what Nefario put on the home page:

Q:I'm a GLBSE user, what about my assets and my bitcoin?

You will be able to get back your bitcoin, and if you want to reveal your username, email, and a bitcoin address to accept payments with, you can continue your relationship with the issuer of any assets you hold.

If you read it carefully, it actually does not contradict.  All that is said above about bitcoins on glbse.com is that we will be able to get them back.  Nothing else.

[Bogart]

I want for Theymos to step up, and agree to manage the dispersal of customer funds.  He has shown himself to be far more forthright than mr. Nef, and is treasurer after all.  Giving over the treasury funds to Nef now after all that has happened is highly unlikely to result in a happy ending for us users IMO.

Theymos, I understand that your position sucks, and you just want out of it, like you did even before this whole situation exploded.  Unfortunately, you're our only hope, and the funds that you hold are valuable leverage.

Please do not give our monies over to Nefario!  Instead, demand a copy of the user database, and manage the dispersals yourself, as a proper Treasurer should.

The shareholders voted that I should send the funds to BitcoinGlobal's accountant. The only reason I haven't yet is that the accountant hasn't sent me an address. Even if I wanted to defy the shareholders, Nefario refuses to give me the database. It's unlikely that I could get the database in any reasonable amount of time.

If there's a lot of public noise about this very soon, maybe I could get a motion passed to keep the ~800 BTC in user funds with me.

I hold ~800 BTC in "anonymous" user funds. It doesn't belong to anyone in particular. If I had the GLBSE user database, I would send this BTC proportionally to all GLBSE users.

Nefario has, I would guess, 4000-8000 user BTC in total.

I see no reason why he should demand that you turn these funds over immediately, as it appears he is doing:

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.

He will begin returning funds when he receives the ~800 BTC that you hold, while he has 4000-8000 BTC on hand?  Riiight.

By all means, please try and make a motion to keep these funds under your control.  Let's see him start actually returning some customer BTC before considering turning them over.

[k3t3r]

what was nefario's reasoning for closing GLBSE?

[05/10/2012 16:25:51] <nefario> what MY problem actually is
[05/10/2012 16:25:54] <nefario> 1)
[05/10/2012 16:26:00] <nefario> AML
[05/10/2012 16:26:01] <nefario> 2)
[05/10/2012 16:26:03] <nefario> tax
[05/10/2012 16:26:05] <nefario> 3)
[05/10/2012 16:26:07] <nefario> regulations
[05/10/2012 16:26:09] <nefario> in that order


[05/10/2012 16:32:52] <nefario> I don't need your approval for this, I don't have much choice

He managed to convince some of you to support him, so he must have had a good argument, what was it?

Nefario promised to start a 100% legal stock exchange after GLBSE is closed and transfer the BitcoinGlobal shares over. Clearly, this will be super successful. 

[05/10/2012 17:43:33] <shareholder 1> lets just trust nefario and gets going.

[05/10/2012 17:49:27] <shareholder 2> i truly think that if we reveal the plans to make it legit, this will turn around support in the community (at least the bright side of it) and new investments would flow if needed

[05/10/2012 18:53:41] <shareholder 2> of clourse you can do what you want, but it would be better for you and everyone to help the wind down of glbse in a clean way

Some other shareholders became resigned to GLBSE's fate and were at least somewhat convinced by Nefario's dreams of BitcoinGlobal's future.

thanks. this makes things a lot clearer.

[Bogart]

Guys, make some public noise here if you wanna see Theymos make the motion.

[puck2]

This was a strange version of a stock exchange anyway. I'd like to see more of a Kickstarter style method to aggregate Bitcoin value. Is there any such project? I think Kickstarter has successfully avoided SEC scrutiny by not exchanging "ownership" or "selling shares."

[Bitcoin Oz]

Guys, make some public noise here if you wanna see Theymos make the motion.

No people are missing an important part.


Neither Theymos OR Nefario are going to control any coins. They will send them to ColdHardMetal who will disperse the coins.

The shareholders passed a motion for CHM to do this and Theymos is refusing. Waiting for Nefario to send CHM the company funds to get the party started.