|
With all this talk about a blacklist, do you guys see a future where "clean" Bitcoin are more valuable and therefore mining hardware becomes more popular because mining is the only way to get "clean" Bitcoin (no previous outputs)?? Do you think this should be advertised by mining companies?
|
|
|
|
Exactly, it is Bitcoin. So if something happens to Bitcoin what happens to your stock?
If something happens to Bitcoin then Mastercoin can just use another blockchain. If something happens to Bitcoin then Bitshares has it's own blockchain. Colored Coin has no alternative so if something happens to Bitcoin such as if it gets politically attacked, or if there is some problem with it found it will affect Colored Coin because ColoredCoin is not platform independent.
Something could happen to the other blockchains. I don't see what you mean by "politically attacked" as Bitcoin is decentralized and therefor very hard to attack politically, just look at piracy.
Unless you are a business oriented individual are prone to believe that Bitcoin will be the only cryptocurrency, that Bitcoin will be the final cryptocurrency, and that whatever your doing should die with Bitcoin, then perhaps it's in your self interest to diversify.
I just think it is wise to take advantage of the power the bitcoin infrastructure which is the largest cryptocurrency protocol by a long shot and it doesnt look like its going to stop anytime soon, but you are right, it is wise to look at all the alternatives
ColoredCoin wont be able to do that because it's not ever going to be a precise measure of the value of something else because it's abstract (Bitcoins posing as ColoredCoins) rather than something concrete (set in stone). If I ask how many ColoredCoins will exist on the Bitcoin blockchain no one can tell me that answer. If we assume every Bitcoin can also be a Colored Coin that is the closest thing to an answer I could come up with.
If I ask how many Mastercoins will exist in the Bitcoin universe the exact measurement is 619478.59338440. This number will not change and cannot change ever.
I dont get what you are trying to say here. Mastercoin sounds more and more like an altcoin to me the more I hear people try to "pitch" it. The whole thing about Colored Coins IS about setting a certain amount of satoshis as being worth (in the case of a company share) something concrete in which the p2p market sets the price by how the company is doing and through its business plans.
|
|
|
|
You could use all three but what I am interested in is what system is best for asset management such as stocks for a company. The thing with Colored Coins from what I understand is that it IS Bitcoin. It is just about assigning certain outputs with a certain value other than their corresponding Bitcoin value.
Peer-to-Peer Asset Issuance And Transactions With Confidence Chains:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwUFHE6KYsM0ZkxLVmFwbXQ3ck0/edit?usp=sharingReally couldn't digest it all clearly but does this use blockchains other than the Bitcoin blockchain? The marvelous thing about bitcoin is that you have MASSIVE amounts of hardware backing its security of the blockchain and verification system. I enjoy colored coins because it takes advantage of the bitcoin blockchain which should be the protocol from which system can be built upon. |
|
|
|
Because you have Mastercoins and because Mastercoins are stable. I am not convinced Colored Coins will be more stable than Bitcoin but if it can then it will do well. For me I like the fact that Mastercoin provides an escrow because I shouldn't have to trust the issuer to honor the contract and having Mastercoins as escrow will allow for people to have a place to put their wealth to use creating new currencies in a way which isn't too much risk. I also like that Mastercoin can act as a unit of measure for the entire system where all wealth in the system can be determined by an unchanging Mastercoin. There will be very minimal inflation in Mastercoin compared to Bitcoin and that means a lot less volatility and a much better measuring unit.
If you like Colored Coin then use it, but if you like Mastercoin then use it. Some people will certainly pick one or the other, some will use both. Some will use Bitshares and some will use all three.
Why wouldn't you use all three?
You could use all three but what I am interested in is what system is best for asset management such as stocks for a company. The thing with Colored Coins from what I understand is that it IS Bitcoin. It is just about assigning certain outputs with a certain value other than their corresponding Bitcoin value. |
|
|
|
There are 21 million million Bitcoins that will ever exist.
There are 600 thousand Mastercoins that will ever exist.
I predict each Mastercoin will easily be worth between 20-30 Bitcoins.
But if we want to be conservative each Mastercoin is actually going to be worth at least 1 Bitcoin. Assume that everyone who has at least 1 Bitcoin will want at least 1 Mastercoin and you can easily see that the price of Mastercoins will easily surpass 1:1.
As for the particulars of how much this or that costs in Mastercoin, who knows? But you can be sure when people figure out what they can do, everyone will want some.
I think the balance JR has to reach is to have enough Mastercoins that they wont ever run out, but have it be scarce enough that the value can continue to appreciate over time.
600,000 is a good number, but the main threat I see to Mastercoin value will be from Bitshares. People will probably sell Mastercoins for Bitshares if that idea actually worked as well as they say it will, but it's very possible that Mastercoin could have first mover advantage and work better too.
JR will have to explain the math of Mastercoin, I don't fully understand and my calculations could be way off, but based on my calculations I'm not selling Mastercoins for less than 2 BTC each. The reason is I predict the demand for Mastercoins will be far greater than the demand for Bitcoins. People will be buying Bitcoins in order to buy Mastercoins so they can do certain things which can only be done using Mastercoins.
Whether my math is off or not depends on whether or not Mastercoins are destroyed after use. If they are destroyed bit by bit over time as I understand it then they'll be absolutely deflationary. The rate of that destruction would determine how deflationary and JR has to answer that. In his whitepaper he suggests 1.5 Mastercoins for 1000 Bitcoins. My calculations suggest that everyone will want to own a few Mastercoins and the price would for sure be at least a few Bitcoins probably prior to the launch and could get as high as 30 Bitcoins per Mastercoin depending on how it works.
I believe that is all assuming Mastercoin does something that colored coins can not. I'm not convinced that is the case. If I was a business who wanted to do an IPO why would I choose Mastercoin to represent my shares over colored coins? If both do the same thing, why convert some of my BTC to MC when CC does what I need? Especially since CC allows shareholders to not have to have the whole blockchain for security? If the price of MC gets expensive why choose it? I'd rather pick BTC CC and then it will cost just a few cents a share to start. It just seems MC hypes a lot of the future potential and people are seeing it as another currency that will have massive demand but they are forgetting that CC has the same potential for everyone and will be dirt cheap because its just uses a few cents worth of BTC to use. This is a great video where an Executive Architect from IBM basically explains the colored coins concept https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDO7TDMlxsYIf I was a business who wanted to do an IPO why would I choose Mastercoin to represent my shares over colored coins?
This is a great question which I haven't seen answered yet. |
|
|
|
Huh I thought Mastercoin was some sort of new blockchain just for stocks etc and that colored coins were a layer on top of Bitcoion. It seems I'm wrong on both accounts. Mastercoin seems like the best option since it would use the robustness of the Bitcoin blockchain to its advantage. It will be interesting to see which one ends up being adopted by the community at large... either protocol would be a huge development.
Colored Coins would use the bitcoin blockchain as well. Not necessarily according to this CC dev.
And while we are here, there is an important difference between Mastercoin's distributed exchange and p2ptrade which is implemented for colored coins:
Mastercoin uses blockchain to store orders, while p2ptrade doesn't. p2ptrade can work with any communication medium.
Our first version simply uses a HTTP service for communication. This doesn't look like a distributed system, does it?
Colored Coin would begin from a Genesis Transaction so lets say I deposit 1 BTC to what I say is the Genesis address and I offer 1000 shares, each share would consist of 0.001 Bitcoin and the Colored Coin Client would track the Colored Coins by following where the Colored Coin came from. But you're right because the trading of Colored Coins could be done off the blockchain. A question I have is if you can buy a fraction of a share? Lets say in that example above, am I allowed to split my share into 10 by selling 0.00001 off of that Bitcoin which comes from the Genesis transaction? |
|
|
|
Huh I thought Mastercoin was some sort of new blockchain just for stocks etc and that colored coins were a layer on top of Bitcoion. It seems I'm wrong on both accounts. Mastercoin seems like the best option since it would use the robustness of the Bitcoin blockchain to its advantage. It will be interesting to see which one ends up being adopted by the community at large... either protocol would be a huge development.
Colored Coins would use the bitcoin blockchain as well. |
|
|
|
LETS GET READY TO RUMBLEEEEEEEEE! |
|
|
|
Where is the actual data saved which is associated with the coins? What data? If you're talking about metadata like name, contract, etc., then it can be anywhere. E.g. somebody might post on forum that he is selling shares of his company foo, and you canl add this asset definition to your client, like ngccc.py addasset foo "obc:cc8e64cef1a880f5132e73b5a1f52a72565c92afa8ec36c445c635fe37b372fd:0:263370" Now it can show you your foo balance (how many shares you have), you can buy and sell them. Of course, client doesn't care what "foo" means. If you're talking about ownership data, it is encoded in Bitcoin transactions. These transactions look exactly like normal Bitcoin transaction and do not have color tags or anything. But client can trace them back to the genesis transaction my going through the transaction graph, and that's how it knows that it represents ownership. How's the progress going killerstorm? Been following r/coloredcoins but no new info. Is there anything the bitcoin community can do to help other than helping develop for colored coins? |
|
|
|
I will buy some 10,000 ActM shares at 0.00055 BTC (0.55 mBTC). It is near the trading range of BF. (I request immediate transfer of shares on BF)
I'll buy 5,000 ActM shares at 0.0006 BTC = 3 BTC |
|
|
|
Why is there such a high difference between your price and the ones offered on actual exchanges? I know that most people can't use Bitfunder to buy/sell (ActM at 0.0008 Buy) but there is currently around 750 shares on Cryptostocks that can be scooped up for at most 0.0022. Just wondering how you came up with that specific number.
His post is in jest to my post about buying shares for 10 times less than current prices. I have a feeling 0.00699300699 if the highest price achieved for ActiveMining. I would buy 4-5000 shares at current BitFunder prices but can't since I'm in the US. |
|
|
|
Someone is buying shares of ActM on the OTC?
I will sell you shares for .00699300699 per share.
Since an alternative exchange is not up yet, if you buy shares from me, I will prepare a written contract which will state that I own those shares which I control and will provide you with evidence that I actually have those shares of Active Mining.
The shares will be sold only in lots of 1000 (6.99300699 bitcoin per thousand) All contracts will be "signed" by having us each sign a message stating the terms of the sale.
When a viable exchange finally is created, I will transfer the shares to you. Also, as further protection, we can make the sale public with a posting on a separate thread here so that there is proof that the sale has been made. We can do this using our real names or using just our bitcoin addresses, whichever is your preference.
The price I offer in this posting is good only until November 30. There is no bargaining nor negotiation. There is only 6.99300699 bitcoin per lot of 1000 shares.
Please contact me via PM.
Bitcoin prices are going up, more slowly than they did 8 months ago. Ken probably will have hardware to sell, and to mine with, albeit, not as soon as we all want. Ken will have an exchange up and running at some point in the future. Once AMC/VMC has a viable exchange and a product to ship, you all know ActM stock will go higher than .01. Think of my offer as a clear opportunity for you against the future.
It is expected that FUDsters will post nasty comments. As they used to say in the streets of Times Square in the 1970s, money talks, bullshit walks.
Stupid comments will be ignored. Anyone with a real offer will be given consideration.
Why is there such a high difference between your price and the ones offered on actual exchanges? I know that most people can't use Bitfunder to buy/sell (ActM at 0.0008 Buy) but there is currently around 750 shares on Cryptostocks that can be scooped up for at most 0.0022. Just wondering how you came up with that specific number. |
|
|
|
How likely is it that this will be the first RoboCoin ATM in the United States? It would be so awesome to say I own (bought 2 shares) 1% of the profits of the first Bitcoin ATM..  |
|
|
|
|
Does purchasing in this first round guarantee that we will be receiving fund from the profits of the first ATM that goes live in the USA?
|
|
|
|
|
What is the simplest way for me to buy ActiveMining shares if I'm in the US?
|
|
|
|
BTC-TC SHUTDOWN INFORMATION BTC-TC Investors will be able to transfer their shares to Bitfunder before the shutdown. ActiveMining will post the information on the procedure to transfer shares to Bitfunder later today in this thread. Edit: And also in our Announcements thread. Hi I have not got any information on the procedure to transfer shares (ACTIVEMINING)... what is with my shares @BTC-TC? thx Hey, I'm in the same situation, I just PM'd Ken and am waiting for a reply. |
|
|
|
|
I still have ActiveMining shares on BTCT.CO. How do I transfer those out to BitFunder or is there a process I have to follow?
|
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
