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181  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 30, 2012, 05:33:06 AM
When I deal with kids I don't worry about what political philosophy I have.  Some kids need kindness, others need independence, and others just need a strong role model.  There is no one correct way.  It is different for each kid and the mood that they are in at the moment.
182  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Should Giga be tagged as a scammer? on: November 29, 2012, 09:15:54 PM
I've decided that gigavps will not get a scammer tag for this. Nefario has proven himself to be untrustworthy, so it would be unreasonable for gigavps to pay out large sums of money based entirely on Nefario's list. Requiring affidavits and proofs of identity are reasonable precautions. It's impossible to strictly follow the contract in a safe way.

You know what I find interesting, is that when Nefario breaks a contract and claims he has to because he has no other option, he gets a scammer tag.  When other people face the same situation they don't get a scammer tag.  Especially those that won't take responsibility for their investments.
183  Economy / Securities / Re: Wtf can you do when an operator goes rogue ? on: November 29, 2012, 03:36:27 AM
if you were a partner (not a shareholder) in GLBSE then you are liable for the actions of GLBSE, which you allowed Nefario to run.  If GLBSE was registered as a corporation or a limited liability company, then you would only be liable for what you put into GLBSE.  If  you just opened a general partnership, well then you are fucked.

This much has been established earlier in the thread.  Smiley

I do wonder what legal recourse you have (if any?) if you are lied to when you make the investment?  If someone tells you they are a company, (company = incorporated) and you invest, do you still have this liability?

I've bought a lot of stocks on etrade and I don't think I've ever dug up their actual incorporation paperwork.


I know, it just pisses me off that anyone could open a business and not know the risks involved.
184  Economy / Securities / Re: Wtf can you do when an operator goes rogue ? on: November 29, 2012, 02:36:42 AM

My question is by owning shares in them should you have unlimited liability if the operator goes rogue ?


I have not heard of any examples of people trying to get money from shareholders? Your loss is limited to the amount you put in.

Its been said many times that the glbse shareholders are liable for nefarios actions.

I am saying that I am essentially being treated on the same level as Nefario. I may as well have a scammer tag because people misunderstand the roles of shareholders and operators. I have been called a scammer and a "co conspirator".

Someone offering a security without a proper shareholder agreement is essentially entrapping the unwary and people need to be aware of it.


if you were a partner (not a shareholder) in GLBSE then you are liable for the actions of GLBSE, which you allowed Nefario to run.  If GLBSE was registered as a corporation or a limited liability company, then you would only be liable for what you put into GLBSE.  If  you just opened a general partnership, well then you are fucked.
185  Economy / Securities / Re: Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract! Cognitive on [GLBSE] on: November 29, 2012, 02:33:31 AM
Any new info on the rest of the shares?

Quote from: blog.glbse.com

Nov. 25

I'll be sending out updated lists by tomorrow afternoon.

Ther will also be some new lists sent out for some issuers.

Got a lot of email over the weekend, if I've not replied please bear with me, I'm a bit snowed under.

Most people should know, any deadline someone gives always double it.  So if someone says something will be done in a week, expect to receive it in two weeks.  Since this is Nefario take that time and multiply it by 10.
186  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The Story of Your Enslavement on: November 28, 2012, 08:42:51 PM

2) Who said anything about anonymity? Pseudonymity is sufficient.

The point is, if a person does not know who to retaliate against then no retaliation can occur.  Retaliation of someone using a false name would only cause that person to lose that name.
187  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Is the life we live today worth what it took to get here ? on: November 25, 2012, 06:58:26 PM
I don't know what the talk said, but what's been done by people before me is not my responsibility.  We should certainly study and learn from it, but amends should be made in the generations that conducted the crime.  If no amends are made then, it is not the responsibility of the descendents to make amends.

So you believe a debt is destroyed at death.

If your father owed $100,000.00 on his land, would you expect that debt to be wiped clean at his death, or should the person to whom the debt is owed will be owed the money or the property ?

What if the currency was what it took to obtain it... say human lives ?

Only if he or she used the land as collateral.  Otherwise, the creditor should have taken a life insurance policy out on the lender.

If the currency was human lives, then same thing.

Only if he or she used future generations as collateral.  Otherwise, the creditor should have taken the life of the lender.
188  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The Story of Your Enslavement on: November 25, 2012, 06:50:16 PM
You hit the argument to the video head on.  The libertarian/anarchistic moral structure is that it is better to solve problems with nonviolence, yet it is sometimes beneficial and more efficient to solve problems with violence. 

Beneficial to whom?

And the argument isn't nonviolence, it's nonaggression. The nonaggression, or "tit-for-tat" strategy is actually the most effective strategy.

I tried that game with someone else on the other side of the world while I was in an MRI.  The Alice 20 units and said whatever you give Bob will triple and they give back however much they want.  The more units the user had at the end, the more real money they study would give the participants.

I am sure my MRI showed revenge.  If I gave Bob all 20 units they would either keep it all or give me only a small profit, instead of splitting it evenly.

I did this MRI many times and some people could grasp the concept of what to normally but some people had either a steep learning curve or they would not understand at all.  I feel that tit-for-tat has 2 flaws.

1) Some people take offence to different things.  I wanted a 50/50 split of the profits I sent to Bob, so if I sent 20 units and now Bob has 60 units, they better send me back 30 units or I will retaliate (i.e. not give them any units the next round).  I have seen people get angry with overs from what they feel is offensive as they lost face and that offence could become violent.  Humans are emotional creatures, not rational ones.

2.  If there are no repercussions then there is no fear of reprisals.  Anonymity cannot exist.  If reprisals are OK then some kind of surveillance is required to give proof, otherwise anyone can say, "this person stole my things, I get to steal there things."  It is similar to, "this person is a witch, we should burn them," when in reality the accuser is just angry at the accused.
189  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: EskimoBob - Possibly lied about owning YARR on: November 25, 2012, 06:30:16 PM
Nefario has told Meni that the asset lists are not complete.  It is not only GLBSE users that did not file claims or got double payments, some users that filed their claims and did not receive double payments are also not on the lists.  I can also say this is a fact as I tried to verify if I was in the list of an asset I held but the issuer said I was not and that there are many other people like me.

The lists are inaccurate.  We are dealing with the same person that sent over a thousand bitcoins to the people that already received their coins.  You can look in the posted GLBSE history to see if the shares were sold or not.
190  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Nefario on: November 25, 2012, 06:19:06 PM
Can somebody please share Nefario personal data? I'm sure that his associates know his personal details.

Thanks.

They already said they don't know.  They are even more incompetent than their users.
191  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Sex Ed for middle and High School on: November 25, 2012, 06:12:55 PM
Why can't they be taught the truth? reminds me of the stupid program I did in grade school that they taught us about drugs. All they pretty much said over and over is drugs are bad and they will kill you.

Well. You try weed.. It's not so bad. Maybe they lied about all the drugs?




They should have taught you logic in school instead of about drugs.  "They say killing is bad, I ate a hamburger which is from a killed cow, so maybe what they taught me about killing is wrong."

What is the truth about sex and drugs?  Is it really a professional teacher's job to do teach a child something that any other human being (like a parent) could teach a child?

We never had a teacher teach our "drugs/sex" program it was a police office that came in once per week.




Oh that person has no bias.  This is exactly why schools should not teach sex education, they will bring in a nun to teach it.
192  Other / Politics & Society / Re: How Libertarianism was created by big business lobbyists on: November 25, 2012, 06:08:44 PM
I have a scientific background, I just don't want to wave it around.

Waving it around or not, you should at least try and seem like you have a scientific background if you're going to pontificate so clumsily on scientific matters. The result of our conversation went like this:

Quote
Pollutant: A substance or condition that contaminates air, water, or soil. Pollutants can be artificial substances, such as pesticides and PCBs, or naturally occurring substances, such as oil or carbon dioxide, that occur in harmful concentrations in a given environment. Heat transmitted to natural waterways through warm-water discharge from power plants and uncontained radioactivity from nuclear wastes are also considered pollutants.

I don't recognize the free dictionary as an authoritative source. However, your statements are still logically disconnected. We pollute -> AGW is real does not follow.



It's irrelevant what you recognize as an authoritative source if you can't identify accurate definitions. Try the publication known as Nature. Not Atlas Shrugs, Richard Lindzen, or other such libertarian sources whose agenda is suspect with regard to scientific study.

Once again, I cant say for sure about climate science. But for all things biomedical (cancer, alzheimer, etc research), nature is actually one of the worst journals out there. You can never even tell what the hell the people did to get their results, let alone assess how valid their conclusions are.


I want to emphasize this a bit more. It is clear to me Nature does not care about showing your data (they accept dynamite plots), they dont care if you report the sample size, they allow using SEM rather than standard deviation in showing how uncertain the results are (SEM gets smaller if your N is bigger, ie spent more money). This is basic rational person stuff that is not enforced.

I could go on and on, that journal is crap and only lives on due to inertia of consensus and authority. I have really come to the conclusion that the last fifty years of science was just "experts" measuring how sure they are of their opinions. I am not alone, look it up.

Do this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127448.0



The reporting of statistics of biomedical science involves three steps.
1.  Open SAS.
2.  Do as many statistical tests as SAS allows.
3.  Publish

In fact most biological sciences are like above, except for those in ecology, evolution, or computational biology.
193  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Isreal prepares for war... again ? on: November 25, 2012, 10:41:42 AM
Ya I heard about that, it's such unnecessary bloodshed.

I also really wish the U.S. would stop giving so much money and guns to Israel. There's nothing that annoys me more than hearing about how other countries are using american-gifted weapons to kill their own enemies.

What else would weapons be used for?

But do your research before commenting on where Israel gets it weapons.  It seems Israel likes to gear their military men and women with Glocks (Austria), Browning (Belgium), Baretta (Italy), H&K (Germany), and M4/M16 (USA).  They also have a large sizeable ammunition cache that originally was made in the Soviet Union.  This was obtained after defeating their enemies in war and capturing the weapons.  When getting to the sophisticated weapons, then that is mostly made in America, but where else would they get their fighter planes, Airbus?
194  Other / Meta / Re: [Proposal] New ReEducation Subforum on: November 25, 2012, 10:26:32 AM
Who else gets the Great tag?

I think we should apply it sparingly, sort of like the forum's own Stalin Prize for contributions to libertarian thought.

Broad application would be an insult to Augusto Croppo the Great, The People's Libertarian Hero, Beloved of Theymos.

I'd suggest copying truly exceptional posts of model forum members here. We can select new Heroes from among these exceptional posts.

Moderator Hazek is my only other nomination at this point. Moderator Hazek's posts illuminate libertarian thought. I feel that he is worthy of the People's Acclamation.
Maybe he needs a different title: Censor Hazek, People's Guardian of Natural Law?


Loved the titles, they have been awarded.  Truthfully, after giving these brave men the tag it would be hard to judge others worthy enough of receiving this honor.
195  Other / Meta / Re: [Proposal] New ReEducation Subforum on: November 25, 2012, 09:49:48 AM
I propose that, in addition to the re-education program, we instate a halfway house for those on the path to full reintegration with the community.  Members in the halfway house would be allowed to post in any forum board, with the requirement to fill out captcha for each post. Captchas would be chosen randomly from a large pool of appropriate slogans, chosen mostly from the stickies in the re-education board. This would reinforce proper ways of thinking and observing, and improve likelyhood of a healthy and complete recovery.

The captchas are an excellent idea. I suggest we use very long captchas. Something like typing one of the Moderator's brilliant posts ten times over with no errors.

For example: In the thread, "pirate-based shitstorm", Moderator Hazek wisely reminded us of the true reasons behind pirate's theft:

Make no mistake - all this shit that happened is a direct consequence of the state. This is painfully obvious as soon as you agree that we don't and never can have a free market as long as there is a state. Why? Because anonymity and responsibility don't mix.

The state is the reason why so many must hide their identity, since if they want to preserve their safety, well being and wealth, this is the only way to avoid a giant mafia of thugs hurting and robbing them simply for providing a voluntary service to their customers. Were this not the case, non violent ostracization would be made possible as punishment for those service providers that violate their promises and eventually the bad apples would get weeded out. And there are many bad apples.

Typing that ten times over would be a great captcha. As we get rehabilitated, we can decrease the number of repetitions.


Wow I had not been to this thread for a while because I thought it was dead.  I agree with the captcha.  It is a great idea.  Have to get rid of those mindless robots.  Maybe I should make a list in the OP of those users that are considered great as well.  Who else gets the Great tag?
196  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Consensus-based society with provable trust-free voting on: November 25, 2012, 09:38:24 AM
What will all this nice brainstorming be used for?
197  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Libertarianism in Ancient China | by Murray N. Rothbard on: November 25, 2012, 09:24:07 AM
Didn't Caocao destroy the taoist rebellion?

I don't know. I don't go in for the historical/mystical/mythical part of it. I am only interested in the philosophers (Laozi, Huizi, Zhuangzi).

You'll find some relevant historical information here though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_the_Five_Pecks_of_Rice

Quote
Way of the Five Pecks of Rice (Chinese: 五斗米道; pinyin: Wǔ Dǒu Mǐ Dào) or the Way of the Celestial Master, commonly abbreviated to simply The Celestial Masters, was a Chinese Taoist movement founded by the first Celestial Master Zhang Daoling in 142 CE. At its height, the movement controlled a theocratic state in the Hanzhong valley, north of Sichuan. In 215 CE, the state was incorporated into Cao Cao's Kingdom of Wei, and followers of the Celestial Master were dispersed all over China.

It seems that the theocracy submitted to Cao Cao in exchange for Cao Cao's acceptance of Daoism as a state religion with supreme religious authority vested in the hereditary ruler.

As you can see, the whole thing just oozes with libertarian ethos. Murray Blowhard was really on to something!

It is always ok to fudge history for the sake of argument, right?

Their libertarianism can really be seen in their belief in qi and how they would use prepubescent girls to create the most jing.

Anyway, I thought the video was referring to the Yellow Turban Rebellion in China, but it seems they were different Taoists rebels and different Zhangs too.
198  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Sex Ed for middle and High School on: November 25, 2012, 09:05:21 AM

What is the truth about sex and drugs?  Is it really a professional teacher's job to do teach a child something that any other human being (like a parent) could teach a child?

The objective is to provide a basic and neutral formation so that every young citizen have a minimum level of knowledge on that subject. Parents, for many reason, can be unable to teach those things to their kids. It's not because the parents are dumb that we need to spread the dumbness for each generation.

It's not about teaching kids if sex is good or bad, it's about teaching them how it works. There's too much bullshit floating around with the religious crazies and the availability of porn, you need to teach minimal standards of having basic sex. It's not about "use a condom", it's about "HOW to use it". It's about giving them references or ressources on how to do some things without using porn as a standard. Improvisation comes when there's no guidelines and problems occur when there's improvisation usually.

If the teenager want to know how blowjobs work, or how anal sex work, why do we need to keep the secret? Either you explain them the basic guideline of how to do it, either they will go on google, look for it and find videos of girls choking on blowjobs or ass being rammed like it's jell-o.

Next there will be standardized testing on sex education.

If schools taught children how to critically think from their reading, writing, and math courses, then the students would be smart enough to know that there are directions on how to use a condom on the box it comes in.  They would also know that they can go online and read advise from people like Dan Savage.  Google is a great resource for knowing how to have sex.  Wikipedia has an entry for every sex position there is and it is not laced with pornography, but actual information.

The problem with children is not having basic knowledge, it is that children cannot assess risk like adults are able to do.  The way to develop ways to assess risk is to develop the skills needed to assess risk, such as critical thinking skills.  Schools are already loaded with pointless crap that distracts students from learning things that will actually benefit them in the future.  Many students that go to college must take remedial courses because the lack the basic logic and reasoning skills required to make a coherent sentence.

But writing is no big deal, they know how to use condoms and have anal sex.  They can fuck like a god, who cares if they can't read the directions on how to put on a condom, someone showed them how to.

199  Other / Politics & Society / Re: How Libertarianism was created by big business lobbyists on: November 25, 2012, 08:50:36 AM
I have a scientific background, I just don't want to wave it around.

Waving it around or not, you should at least try and seem like you have a scientific background if you're going to pontificate so clumsily on scientific matters. The result of our conversation went like this:

Quote
Pollutant: A substance or condition that contaminates air, water, or soil. Pollutants can be artificial substances, such as pesticides and PCBs, or naturally occurring substances, such as oil or carbon dioxide, that occur in harmful concentrations in a given environment. Heat transmitted to natural waterways through warm-water discharge from power plants and uncontained radioactivity from nuclear wastes are also considered pollutants.

I don't recognize the free dictionary as an authoritative source. However, your statements are still logically disconnected. We pollute -> AGW is real does not follow.

It's irrelevant what you recognize as an authoritative source if you can't identify accurate definitions. Try the publication known as Nature. Not Atlas Shrugs, Richard Lindzen, or other such libertarian sources whose agenda is suspect with regard to scientific study.

Anything with an -ism is cult-like.  This is what happens to cult followers, they blind themselves to anything that might invalidate their belief system.

Like that the word "environmentalism" exists?

Yes exactly, there are environmentalists that believe (yes believe because they can no do the scientific method themselves) that the world is going to end due to man-made global warming and that the only solution is state run socialism.  This does not mean global warming is not actually occuring.  The problem is their method of trying to fix the problem.

There is no such thing as scientistism.  There is only the method of science.  We see something curious or see a problem, make testable hypothesis (like is the surface temperature of the Earth increasing), and then run an experiment to test the hypothesis and have their findings peer-reviewed.

200  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Libertarianism in Ancient China | by Murray N. Rothbard on: November 25, 2012, 08:44:55 AM
Didn't Caocao destroy the taoist rebellion?
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