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181  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why ASIC's Should Not Be The Future Of Crypto Currencies on: October 21, 2012, 05:40:44 AM
Why GPU's Should Not Be The Future Of Crypto Currencies


GPU's are not a natural technological generation leap like going from paper to CPU was. GPU's & mining software are simply specialized processing units made specifically for Bitcoin. Which i do not beleive is following the original intentions of Satoshi, for many reasons.

Moving from paper to CPU mining will not be the same as going from CPU to GPU mining. The reason here is because paper and CPU's have decentralized distribution. They are mass produced by huge companies  giving you the option to buy their products in any city, no matter where you live! This allows us to be in control of when and where we get our mining hardware, and to a certain degree, at what cost. (Which helps the decentralization process). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization

While on the other hand, CPU's are mass produced, supply is controlled, price is controlled, they are in limited quantity, can only be bought from a few companies/sources, that in reality nobody even knows for sure they can trust. So what will happen is all the miners in the world will be forced to rely on those few companies for CPU's. And we will be subject to their pricing. They will also control the supply of the mining rigs, which can have an effect on the bitcoin economy that is similar to the effect that the U.S Federal Reserve and banks have on the money supply. I'm not talking about the amount of money/BTC, but when it is available/mineable to the miners. This allows CPU manufacturers to be in control of when and where we get our mining hardware. (All this hurts the decentralization process)

People will have to rely on the small quantities that these companies produce, which causes people to have wait for their hardware, which in the end causes people to potentially lose money. This is exactly what is happening right now. Many people are waiting to see what happens with GPU's, so that they can start buying mining  hardware again. So, basically if GPU didn't exist people would continue to buy CPUs as i type this, which would have meant more profit for those people now and in the future, which would have meant more money in those peoples pockets. This is where the 'Federal Reserve effect' comes in, because now mining hardware companies can control when people buy/receive their hardware, plus control when people get more or less profit through controlling the mining hardware supply. Also, buying GPU's from a few small companies means whenever those companies come out with a new model, this process will start all over again. More lost money, more time lost waiting for release/shipping.

Another downfall of GPU, is the fact that GPU's will make everyone have to 'restart from scratch' buying mining hardware all over again, when most people already  have their mining hardware in the form of CPUs, and it is already paid off. Now you will have to sell all your CPUs, then have to buy $1000's of dollars of GPU's just to be able to keep up with all the other players with the increasing difficulty. After that, you will have to wait all over again to get your return on  your investment! Which could take half a year or more, once difficulty adjusts, which should just take about a month or so.

Once GPUs come out, the difficulty will adjust accordingly. Which will just cause everyone to make the same amount of money as they were before GPU's. So the question is, is it necessary for us to go through all of what i mentioned above, to just end up making the same amount of money as you were before with GPU's, just a month or so later, with GPU's?

Because of the above mentioned costs, plus the added cost of GPU'S, this can hinder the widespread global adoption of Bitcoin just because of the sheer expense. This is especially true for people in other smaller, less wealthy countries. It is much easier to obtain a used CPUs for those people. People that could be helping to build security and decentralization for Bitcoin!

GPU's threaten to ruin any anonymity that Bitcoin has left. This is by potentially making it easier to track who is buying the mining rigs through the few small companies that sell the GPU's. Which could potentially be bad if Bitcoin ever became illegal!

There are also many more smaller disadvantages of moving towards GPU that are of less importance.

So now it comes to the advantages of GPU. That's where everything boils down to in the end. The problem is there are not enough advantages to using GPU, for them to outweigh the disadvantages it brings to the table! In my opinion, network security and lowered power consumption cannot make up for the potential problems that it brings. This is an economy. This is not about power consumption! It will all come down to economics in the end. And that is what I'm talking about. And that is the infostructure that Satoshi built Bitcoin on!

The  Bitcoin developers, and the Crypto Community in general needs the recognize GPU's as a threat, and we should all do something to stop this from happening. I do not think that Satoshi would think the way these GPU's are to be distributed would be good for the Bitcoin economy in general.  There are a few things we can do to combat this, like changing the algorithm to prevent the usage of GPU's. Or, we could all switch to another crypto currency that that uses a different algorithm that is resistant to GPU's, like Litecoin, so that we can save Bitcoin and our crypto-independence!

By Switching To Another Bitcoin Algorithm, Or By Using Litecoin We Can Save Our Crypto-Independence!

The only options we have now is to change the Bitcoin algorithm, or for everyone to switch to another GPU proof crypto currency. The ideal situation would be for the Bitcoin developers to change the algorithm, but that does not seem to be what they plan to do. So that's where Litecoin comes in. While Litecoin is not GPU proof, it is GPU resistant. It runs on an algorithm called scrypt that is highly memory intensive, which makes it much harder to produce a GPU for Litecoin. Even if a company would find a way to produce a GPU for it, it would take at least a year to design, produce and ship them. So it would be our 'safe heaven' from GPU, saving us from the many disadvantages and negative effects that GPU threatens to bring to Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency world. At the very least, it would be buying us more time to work on something to prevent mining hardware companies from taking over our crypto currencies. People will be able to continue to GPU mine, continue to profit, once again allowing us to be in control of when/where we buy our mining hardware, as well as, at what cost we buy it at. Allowing the control of the crypto world to stay in our hands, not the hands of greedy companies!

Jay1337

Please act professional since you're representing BFL.  What a joke.
182  Economy / Computer hardware / [WTB]HD 5830 *BOUGHT* on: October 20, 2012, 08:13:44 PM
Looking for a 5830
I am preferably looking for a reputable forum member in this trade.
183  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why should/shouldn't I use PPCoin? on: October 20, 2012, 05:53:04 PM
PPC = Digital Cash IMHO.  Cheesy

FTFY  Tongue

PPC needs people to adopt it or it wont go anywhere  Wink

With over 2 billion coins there is enough for everyone  Cheesy

The hard limit is 2 billion, it in fact does NOT have any limit to coins(yet or not ever).

Inflation anyone?

The price of PPCoin would stay forever low.
184  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: WTS: 5850, 6970, 5970 on: October 20, 2012, 05:48:42 PM
Bump. Had some interest but no offers. Pm or post here if you want one of these.

I don't know exactly what I wanted for the 6970 or the 5970 but I'd take $85 OBO in btc for the 5850 shipped.

Is the 5850 still available?  What mH/s do you get at stock?
185  Other / Off-topic / Re: BFL offers 1000 BTC back up on power claims on: October 20, 2012, 05:04:31 AM
I have to say, this is terrible.

Not only did Inaba turn a hit at Tom on power figures, now he is turning around and making it seem like it was his bet to Tom. (instead of the otherwa around)...It was the other way around.


To top it off....hes now opened a thread and is now making it seem as if Charities will "win out" of this skirmish of words and bitcoin bets....people are all riled up over which charity is more deserving....

You guys are being played with like toys....

I don't know about you, but I am personally offended at this tactic. I understand Psychological games...but this game is one gone way too far. I'd ask for Mod intervention but I don't know if they would even bother with this mess.

All the more to stay away from BFL. 

+1
186  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Should we have BPEC? on: October 19, 2012, 09:38:14 PM
Haven't they done something like this?  Bitcoin Foundation?

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/

I don't think so, I'm thinking of a mining specific organization. BCF is more about promoting adoption as a currency,

I'm talking about getting all (or a large number) of miners to agree "not to sell below $20" or something like that.


Horrible idea.  Bitcoin should be decentralized, and demand should govern the price, not sellers refusing to sell below a certain point.

That is just an artificial increase in price.
187  Other / Archival / Re: Pictures of your mining rigs! on: October 18, 2012, 05:40:20 AM
Million dollar question is from the money spent on some of these eye candy rigs and the amount of watts and elecy used do you guys actually make good returns

Well I paid off my entire rig.. so yes.
188  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Consolidated Litecoin Mining Guide for 5xxx, 6xxx, and 7xxx GPUs on: October 17, 2012, 10:34:22 PM
7970: 21000 (sharethreads 2048 and threads_per_gpu 4, the rest the same as the above and using catalyst 12.6 and AMD APP SDK 2.6) (~700 kh/s)
Is that sharethreads 2048 correct??? That is a LOT of threads!
When I put that in, it would just crash my PC, or very unresponsive.

i changed that because it doesn't really work.  that's for 79xx cards only though.  we're still looking for the right settings for 7970s.

What are the best OC settings for the 5850? Currently I am mining at 300 kH/s when it should probably be more, I believe.
189  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: my system's are 1.6kwh?! on: October 17, 2012, 05:23:20 PM
That should be fine.  My rig consumes 400W at the wall which means it consumes around 288 kW per month.
190  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Normal Litecoin mining reject rates? on: October 16, 2012, 04:35:41 AM
I get about 3%

Ok thank you for the insight.  I found out the reason was due to the aggression being too high, I accidentally had it set at 20.
191  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Radeon HD 8000? (little help translating Turkish pls?) on: October 16, 2012, 03:12:04 AM
More info here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Islands_%28GPU_family%29

Expected Radeon series 8000 for 2013....

Do you think this 8000 series would be better than current series for mhash/sec/$ ?

Hmm... I will pick one up for Litecoin mining when more stable GPU miners are released for it.

At the moment only 5xxx and 6xxx are truly good for litecoin mining, 7xxx is a little unstable.
192  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Normal Litecoin mining reject rates? on: October 16, 2012, 03:04:40 AM
What is everyone getting for their reject rates?

I believe mine is too high, I have 6,818 accepted shares and 832 stales, meaning 10.88% are stale.

However this is not the same as bitcoin mining so I am not sure.
193  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Consolidated Litecoin Mining Guide for 5xxx, 6xxx, and 7xxx GPUs on: October 15, 2012, 03:46:04 AM
What if I have a 5850 and a 7970 in one rig? How can I have CGMiner only mine the 5xxx and Reaper only mine the 7970?
194  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: GPU farms moving over to Litecoin on: October 15, 2012, 03:34:18 AM
Litecoin mining seems to consume more electricity than bitcoin mining however, for me.

I'll probably switch when ASICs come out as well.  Litecoin's value is also rising too which is good.
195  Economy / Speculation / Re: [POLL] Up or Down? on: October 09, 2012, 01:17:45 PM
We're definitely going to start going up soon.  Slow and steady does it though, no need for a growth that isn't backed up by increasing demand.

196  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: What ELSE could ASIC Mining devices be used for (Theoretical) on: October 07, 2012, 11:00:21 PM
Application specific means it can only be used for bitcoin mining, nothing else.

This has been said time and time again.
197  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Why is this transacation taking so long to confirm? on: October 07, 2012, 09:56:20 PM
https://blockchain.info/tx/b1630a7faf60e8c93471497ee1b27f5939e24f1c7ee33ca9bc5e0d9ae7a5c5d9

I just noticed I posted this in the wrong section, but it's been a few blocks since the transaction yet it is still unconfirmed.

What causes this to happen, since normally most transactions are confirmed as soon as the next block is solved.

In that sense, what makes a transaction eligible for inclusion in a block?
198  Economy / Speculation / Re: Downward trend imminent on: October 07, 2012, 08:48:40 PM
The downfall is mostly all speculation as well, and increases that were expected are also speculation. 

It goes both ways. The closure of GLBSE is an excuse by bearish speculators to purchase coins at a cheaper price, hence why you see a building wall at $11.7.  They want to force the price down to that level, wait for the price to then go back up and sell it off as a profit.

199  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Asics may be just what Bitcoin needs to grow stronger. on: October 07, 2012, 05:59:31 PM
Once the asics start mining the hash rate will rocket, and with the introduction of low cost miners more and more people will be interested in mining. This will protect the currency from 51% attacks, it will almost be 100% safe. What do you think?

The key word is LOW COST miners.

What's stopping large corporations from dumping a ton of money on easy to set up and easy to operate miners and using that to take over the network?

Meanwhile GPUs are much more difficult to use as a way to take the network due to their large power consumption and heat generation.  If you wanted to take 51% you would need to have complex cooling and circuitry and that would be difficult to devise.

All of that has been removed with low consumption ASICs.
200  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Linux vs Windows for Dedicated Mining on: October 07, 2012, 05:38:34 PM
now that ASIC mining is on the near horizon with dedicated mining software like cgminer and bfgminer, i assume the clear answer is now Linux?

I would think so, because you don't need to tweak or OC your ASICs like you do with GPUs.  

I am currently using Windows because I cannot OC with linux.
When I see working ASICs I will buy some and use linux.
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