We need regulation because that is how you keep others from creating regulations and it makes far more sense to create the regulations in house, than to give it to someone who has an unknown agenda.
I have seen many users post this argument and i don't understand it. HOW can you regulate a currency that was designed impossible to regulate? To me it looks like the people in charge are trying to make either a fork or a central bank-type layer so that it can be regulated. Because let's face it, Bitcoin right now CAN'T be regulated if we don't let them regulate it. They want to close all the exchanges? Fine! We have TOR, we can meet in the streets and people will find other ways to bypass that. That's why 'm not afraid of the government forbidding Bitcoin. But it looks to me like they want to change the whole nature of Bitcoin and that is what's dangerous. And even more because many Bitcoin users have no problem with that. You need to think outside your comfort zone. Anything that involves people can be regulated. Just because you don't want regulations, doesn't stop others from creating some, and enforcing it! This is why its better to be first to the table with some suggestions! What most ideological people don't get is that their ideas for not regulating bitcoin don't actually work - if you go and just use TOR and shun Fiat, you are removing the advantages of bitcoin, and the threat to governments - you are basically doing their regulations for them! Think of it this way. You have a wonderful Apple pie on your kitchen window, which is warm, and smells delicious. If you give the bully a small slice, he will leave you alone, happy that he got some pie. If you don't, he might take the whole pie, and give you a small slice. If you run away with the pie, he might come after you and not only steal your pie, but also smash it into your face. If you run away, you might out run the bully, but also end up away from the house, not able to watch TV while eating your pie with no plate, cutlery, or lemonade! The point is, when you have something that someone else might want, the first move is to be reasonable, because it stops them being unreasonable! |
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This is ridiculous. We get the ultimate gift for freeing individuals from the yoke of the power of the government/corporation complex and what do we do with it? Cry for our overlords to kindly regulate it for us?? No way in hell am I going to support this. Stay unregulated. It's time that TPTB learned that they do NOT in fact own the world are NOT free to do with it as they please. Begging them for permission to defy them kind of defeats the point, doesn't it?
Also if I read the phrase "we need regulation, because x.." one more time, I think I'm going to throw up. YOU may think YOU need regulation but WE do not need anything. Get it right.
Let me ask you a question. What stops someone from putting a bullet in your head and stealing all your stuff? The answer is regulations. There will always be someone who breaks those regulations, and that is why we have the police, but in essence, the majority of people need some form of guidance to what you can and can't do. Without it, there is nothing stopping me from stealing or cheating you out of your bitcoins and leaving you destitute. Now can you see why a handful of rules and regulations might be useful? However, I would only suggest a small number of rules, maybe 10 or so!  |
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This is a great question, and one that highlights the first major problem to be faced by bitcoin users. They understand tech, but are very naive about politics. We need regulation because that is how you keep others from creating regulations and it makes far more sense to create the regulations in house, than to give it to someone who has an unknown agenda. Realistically, the governments of the world are not going to chase down every alt coin out there, but bitcoin is the big one, with the name everyone recognises. If they regulate bitcoin, then they will be happy that they are still in control, and are able to manage the risk to the real prize, tax income. I would suggest that the rules put in place, manage some of the major complaints against bitcoin, along the lines of money laundering, tax evasion etc. Maybe a best practice guideline suggesting that all bitcoin transactions greater than x are made through a third party to prevent anonymous transactions. What the ideological bitcoin believer needs to understand is that governments are not interested in their sub $1000 deals. They want to make sure that they know about the $100k deals from South America and the extra cashflow coming from large corporates. If the regulations are put in place now, but done in a best practice, no need for laws type of way, then everyone will be happy! |
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I try to be tactful on forums, but not this time - what a stupid argument!
If this was true, which it isn't, then there would only be a fixed amount of money and a fixed number of people interested in crypto currencies.
We know that isn't true because the bitcoin price went up, as more people, and more money came into the market. Why would we not see more people come in and more money come into alt coins as well?
The reason bitcoins are going down in price is because they were over valued. Now we are trying to find the current price, and the market will over shoot again, and they will get too cheap.
However, the same thing is happening in the other coins too - and there are loads of Chinese, Eastern Europeans and Asians putting money in alt coins. Why? Because they can't afford to gain on the movement of bitcoins, due to the money they need to gain an advantage of small movements.
Maybe the more established bitcoin market is also looking at altcoins, but most are not even aware that it exists. The number of comments I've read that seem to suggest that MT Gox is the only exchange available seems to suggest this is the case - and another pointer to suggest the original OP statement is wrong!
... and relax!
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Although I have some, it doesn't mean anything more than I see them going up in value! |
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Techies are not people people - in fact most of them having problems dealing with themselves!
What the OP is describing is customer service which is the skill of diplomacy in the face of stupidity or greed.
For me, I like dealing with people to a point, but the trick is always maintaining a level of expectation that is acceptable to all involved.
The moment you lose that - well, you end up with what we have with bitcoin.
Techies who love what they do, but don't like to answer to people who are trying to steer them away from their hobby.
People who just want to become rich for no effort, but feel they have a perfect right to get others to do their work for them.
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I like that new coins are being developed because that ease of creation is a good indicator that the concept of crypto currency is valid and will grow.
I don't get the zero sum idea that there is only enough room for one or two coins, you just need to look at the number of Linux distros to see that isn't hurt whenever someone brings something new out.
However, I do feel the next big step is the regionalisation of these coins, leading to a way for all coins to find their own mass and price in a way that does mean that we will never see $100k coins.
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LTC was pumped up a month ago from this news; I'm not convinced it has much more room to go up for now.
It seems like a lot of people bought, and are waiting for a big increase once MtGox accepts it. Once they sell, I think it will outweigh the new buyers.
Most people buying litecoins have, or have had bitcoins. BTC can be easily traded for LTC at btc-e right now, so I don't see why MtGox would bring in too many new buyers.
There are a very large number of bitcoin users who don't realise that BTC-e exists! When MTGox shows them an alternative coin, at only $4 a pop - its going to go mental! |
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Just signed up with BTER, I like that its Chinese - having a billion potential customers isn't something to be sniffed at! |
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The practice of increasing a price through buying a small quantity at increasingly higher price, has been illegal in the money markets since Noah was a boy. However, Bitcoin is the wild west! [citation needed] price LTC BTC 0.0299 1.75016274 0.05232986 0.02982 1.62172702 0.04835989 0.02977 0.18598981 0.00553691 0.02976 0.47911415 0.01425843 0.02973 188.97499769 5.61822667 0.02972 12.004 0.35675888 0.02971 5 0.14855 0.0297 500 14.85 0.02969 0.18704299 0.0055533 0.02967 11.81170832 0.35045338 0.02966 80 2.3728 0.02965 0.1858791 0.00551131 0.02964 3 0.08892 0.02963 365 10.81495 0.0296 6.012 0.1779552 0.02951 8.75 0.2582125 0.0295 25 0.7375 0.02949 0.18915448 0.00557816 0.02948 52.75371975 1.55517965 0.02947 352.76730486 10.39605246 0.02945 2.72005834 0.08010571 This is the current buy orders on BTC-e for LTC using BTC Notice how many very small orders are on there for less than 1 LTC That doesn't seem to make sense to me Then you have a few big orders, which is a collection of all the orders at that price. Is this enough evidence? |
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I have noticed how a pattern emerges between the value of BTC and the value of other crypto coins - especially at the moment with LTC going a bit higher because of some news involving MTG - maybe! Anyway, The practice of increasing a price through buying a small quantity at increasingly higher price, has been illegal in the money markets since Noah was a boy. However, Bitcoin is the wild west! This post isn't an instruction guide - its to collect advice from everyone on how to spot such manipulation. First thing I notice is that the price is going up while trade volume is very low. Secondly, you will have people buying a handful of coins at strange valuations and this continues until you get to a certain price where a load of orders are waiting to be processed. Anyone else notice a few indicators of price manipulation? |
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I would guess that 2 Million users worldwide is a close guess to the number of people who have and / or use bitcoins.
Now that we have established that - and if you think that just between the US and the EU we have half a billion adults able to buy and sell in bitcoins if they wished.
If only 200 million decided to have a go - that would still mean the market would have to grow by another 200% - if we started talking 10 transactions each per day - wow! Huge, huge numbers.
Bitcoins isn't even out of bed yet but you need to give it at least 3 years before we see 200 million users! It will be another few years on top before we start seeing the multiple transactions
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Seems to me that there are a number of key terms used by some people to shut down an argument they can't deal with.
One is to use Godwin's Law and mention Nazi's
Two is to call someone a racist - which is implied to be as bad as being a child murderer
Three is the worst, as it involves being called a Bigot!
Bigot actually means someone of a view that is unchangeable - ironically, a very good description of the person who usually uses the term bigot in the first place!
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I tend to think the EU will collapse in on itself anyway. These big empires never last and they seem to be getting more fragile as time goes by. They used to last centuries, but now the Soviets only lasted 50 years or so, and the EU is barely a decade old.
I totally agree with you, although your time scales are possibly wrong! I think the EU will be dead by 2040 but I hate to think what kills it! |
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Yeah right, he does attack the EU that's true, but him and his party seem to be very much a Nationalist party more than anything, don't make the mistake of thinking because these guys don't like the EU they're friendly towards the Libertarian and Anarchist view, the one thing I like is they're causing some chaos in the mainstream politics.
They are not nationalist in a racist sense, like the BNP etc, they are against the empire building of the EU. They are quite libertarian in their supporter following but do have an authoritarian feel to some of their national policies. But then, I don't trust any political party, because all they want is power. The only difference is what they say to get their support! I think anyone who wants to be a politician should be hung for being a potential danger to the public! |
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I found a way to do something similar, but the problem is always how you take your fiat, and convert it back to bitcoins cheaply so you can start again.
I sold all my bitcoins yesterday and am now in transfer hell of waiting for fiat to clear to by more bitcoins- I am going to lose out on making some good money!
However, this is the way we learn and push for change - the time issue is a big one!
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If 2011 was $30, and 2013 was almost 10 times that at $260 odd, is the next one going to be 10x again? $1500 maybe? No real pattern, just a guess!  |
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The current excuse is money laundering, but if that doesn't work, they have other excuses.
Nobody is going to give you a straight answer, Bitcoin is a flea in the grand scheme of things, but that doesn't mean you don't wack it now, before it becomes a problem!
If you are going to deal with UK banks, be sensible, and don't show up on their radar!
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Its nice to dream, but UK politics is nicely sown up to prevent anyone getting close enough to the boat to rock it! Let's be honest, bitcoin itself is a bit of a dream, something like the internet itself was before it existed also. And yes, it would only be possible with the success of bitcoin being its backing (and its financing). I don't expect a landfall or something like that, but with enough voice and representation we can highlight certain areas that we, as bitcoin users, are most interested in (e.g. addressing economic corruption and equality amongst classes). The freedoms we'd seek from a political stand point for the people would only be possible when/if btc rises truly, because that itself would give people the vision and hope that there IS a different way, and how to join/do that different way. And we'd be there, politically, to help it along and protect it (freedoms that come with btc and btc itself). On the EU .. I have some personal thoughts (similar to UKIP), but I'll be putting forth a 'foundation idea' (for each issue), then bouncing back and forth the manifesto between interest people until we can come up with a good general feeling that we can agree with. How many MPs do the BNP, or UKIP or the Green party have? Why do you think your party will do better than that?
There is a very large % of people that do not vote, in every area. Those people are essentially 'up for grabs'. I believe that when people really understand what btc is and all the things it promises that they may be persuaded to make sure to protect their own interests, of which we would have that directly in mind, because of course it would be our own interests also. But yes, again, until btc hits the singularity, its not financially possible, nor is it politically possible (not a chance to persuade a significant amount of people in the UK atm). So, it's nice to be prepared, got a year for btc to grow, quite a few people (me included obviously) think that it's potential is rather important, it'll be nice to be prepared and support it from this angle. Also on the other parties, if/when btc takes off (assuming it does by 2014), there wouldn't be much point in standing in areas where other parties had very similar beliefs, unless of course it was cost effective. Better to stand together than apart, on similar views. OK, this is exactly what you do to get bitcoin acceptance in the UK - if that is what your political party is all about. Firstly, forget this setting up a political party lark - its great for the ego, but not much use for getting a result. Secondly, start a lobby group with European links. This lobby group has to have left wing aims in its manifesto, such as redistribution of wealth in a digital environment etc as its headline. This will get you a conversation with other groups within Europe, and after enough talking, shaking hands and general lobbying, you will get an audience with the steering groups regarding the future of banking and money etc. These are the people who actually make the rules that eventually cause us all grief! If you can convince them that what you are talking about isn't a threat to their gravy train in any way - you might have a chance to getting yourself a place as the political face of bitcoin in Europe - then you can start making things happen by creating documents to advise on how digital currency needs to be dealt with by financial institutions to ensure that there is a fair distribution of wealth within this new digital environment! Because this will be close to the official EU guidance on the subject, it will get picked up as being the official line, and eventually, all public sector organisations will be following your lead! And that is how you will get a chance to touch the power and not a single person had to vote for you - wonder how that happened? |
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