New lows on MYR.

Markets are disillusioned.

Or, in keeping with my main thesis, perhaps I'd better say that ASIC's are happily deluded and the rest of us are terribly depressed?

Something REAL, as in tangible, as in something that makes a real difference, needs to be done. Adjusted rewards, ASIC elimination altogether, or something very similar that addresses the cancer needs to be done!

The more you keep thinking about it and sitting on your hands telling yourselves the "gimmicks" will work, the deeper the hole we're in will get.

Quick 24 Hour Stats Update (Block Explorer, period ending 2014-08-03 11:32:00 UTC)

Average diff = 20,87701891 (sgminer average diff = 21,25588412)
Average Network Hashrate = 1,630 GH/s
Total Gross Payout = 265,330
Total Net Payout = 228,183
Average Gross Reward = 160,12673506
Average Net Reward = 137,70899215


And I've come up with these shorthand formulas that are as accurate as anything I've been able to come up with
(they're almost never right on the dot – almost always just a hair above OR a hair below real eventual payout).

Next Reward Quick Calculator = 7.67 * diff
Network Hashrate Quick Calculator = 78,07 * diff

Will the pools be closed on a rotating basis (failovers will work) or will they all go down together?

21:46:34

PoS on deck.

T-3 minutes

 

Add: had my math off by 10 minutes, and it looks like it's late to boot.

Add: don't know    BTW, anyone got any theories on why the difficulty suddenly fluctuates from the low 40's down to the teens? (Check out the series from 23430 to 23450 for an example.) Pretty far fetched to think that profitability miners are coming and going, wouldn't it be? Still no PoS. Hum.

Add: thought I was on to something there, but I had only looked at 4 hours of recent BE history, now after going further back, I see that I'd better not hold my breath on this countdown.  

Muito bem.

Ben vindo satirico!

Way to go!

No doubt about it. Digital currencies ARE a reality - there's no putting the genie back in the bottle. As you said, it's a question of when, and more than how, I would say who, and that "who" will probably determine how and when. Sounds like a great experience and eye opener.


The first thing money ever seeks is its own self-preservation. Oh yeah, finance is changing alright, and the pace of that change is going to get ever faster. Seize the opportunity! To the moon!

Great job!

http://www.aidbit.net/humanitarian-aid/

Okay, you can accuse me of cheerleading. 

Downloads great. Not a single issue.

Norton still flags the installer on launch, but only with a warning, and with the option to continue with the install.
http://us.norton.com/products/tutorials/tutorials.jsp?pvid=nis2011&tutid=download_insight

On the other hand, the attached sgminer is still flagged as Trojan.ADH.2 and automatically eliminated.
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2011-030906-0727-99&vid=42292

Gee, that looks really good.  

I would rewrite the 3rd line so that it reads: A network that's looking to be just as superlative as the coin and the wallet.

I also forgot to mention the website. It's certainly one of the best as well. Well designed, pleasing to the eye, and to the point, highlighting all the key aspects without excess verbiage. A first class website that's good looking, intuitive, and succinctly informative!

As far as Cryptsy ticket submissions, personally, I've already done that and I'm wondering about the efficacy of the same person doing the same thing multiple times (which is very different from multiple submissions from different people, which I support), which might end up being counterproductive. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=683317.msg8047745#msg8047745

I have another idea to present as a possibility. How about sending PM's to the following BitCoinTalk members?
bigvern  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=93918
BitJohn  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=110699
They're both active (and I'm sure they're well aware of what's happening here). What do you think? Devs, your opinions?

BTW,

last 24 hour growth in total money supply = 268466
last 24 hour approximate network hashrate (extrapolation based on actual mining payouts) = 2.28 GH/s
last 24 hour average difficulty (sgminer) = 25.18

I really like this idea too. Very interesting. I'm not sure how it would be implemented (but, hey, that's not my job ) but I'm sure it can be done in some shape or form. Maybe not exactly as you have conceived it, but perhaps something simiiar. Great idea for motivating people to think long[er] term!

I also had a 'bright' idea (but I don't remember if I was in the shower or not ), and mine was about the charity side of things. The phrase "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" came to mind, and I thought, hey, if we could link AidBit charity to information technology, wouldn't that be great? Supporting community centers in underdeveloped areas (1st world, 2nd world, 3rd world, whatever and wherever) with IT infrastructure (computers?) and internet conectivity (and of course, AidBit wallet installs) would be an example that would be incredibly charitable and symbiotic at the same time. It would sure beat giving away paper wallets anyway!

183,33972624 / 287420155200 = 0,000000000637880548468927

nSubsidy *= COIN would be 0,0637880548468927, and that, multiplied by the network hashrate, was getting me close to projecting block rewards consistent with the wallet and BE . . . thought I had a spread sheet that worked - was getting numbers very close anyway *using* the "netmhashps" number as a final variable to multiply by . . . but to no avail - it looks like the netmhashps number is not too reliable . . .

I give up. It's not that big of a deal. As you all have said, there's still plenty of 'polishing' left to do.

I think I remember you saying that the projected reward wasn't completely reliable yet . . .

. . . maybe I need to compare my numbers with actual payouts of the next block found. HUM.


Anyway, that's all fine and dandy, but let's not let this little issue of mine cloud the major success that this coin has already become.

• The best POW/PoS coin in existence (using the best, most energy efficient algo in existence)
• A truly state-of-the-art, one click mining wallet!
• What's looking to be a network that's just as superlative as the coin and the wallet.
• One of the best block explorers I've seen.
• The most professional and engaged developers I have ever seen (and by your location, I think I might have an idea about where that comes from   ).

The blockvalue calculation would certainly affect my calculations and could be the reason why I'm having difficulties.

On the other hand, the dDiff shouldn't be a problem for me to figure out since that is the reported diff and something I just extract from the reported data, correct?

Where I'm having a problem is with figuring out how we arrive at the estimated block reward and what value is used to multiply nSubsidy by - the nSubsidy that's derived from nSubsidy = ceil(8 * 22.91746578 / (525600 + 21242) * 525600)

I've got to admit that both of your answers went right over my head.     But that's okay - you always end up learning way more than you ever wanted when you ask questions that are out of your league. I'm studying the code (and I'm not a coder remember) and brushing up on operators and compound assignments, etc., and, well, I've got more to study . . .

. . . but I do have a quick question for now: How is the value for "COIN" derived?

According to the money supply growth over these last 72 hours, daily, 24 hour average rewards come to 235,223 AidBit. This translates into 9,801 AidBit per hour, and an average payout of 163.35 AidBit per block. After taking into account the 10% charity contribution, the 3% to developers, and the 1% pool fee, the 'take home' rewards for miners would be roughly the following: 202,291 daily, 8,429 hourly, and an average of 140.48 per block.

Using these numbers, it's possible to calculate an average network hashrate of just under 1.35 GH/s (for the past 24 hours ending at approximately 7:15 UTC today), and an average daily net payout ("take home") of just under 1,500 AidBit per 10 MH/s of hash power.

According to sgminer data, we're seeing just under 57 blocks found per hour, or 1,359 daily, with an average diff of 28.859 (63 max., 12 min., and 28 mean). Using the formula given on the OP, that would translate into, well, I still don't know exactly what - I'm not able to come up with anything close to what the real time numbers are. 

The block explorer data confirms the sgminer blocks found numbers, but generates an average diff of 25.4 (since sgminer always rounds to the next highest integer, that's probably the explanation for the difference).

My problem is that I'm still not able to get these numbers to match with the ceil(8 * dDiff / (525600 + nHeight) * 525600) formula on the OP, which using the sgminer and BE diffs would give us average total rewards of .0000000008 and .0000000007, respectively (as of block 21161). If we take those numbers and multiply them by the subsidy that we get using "getsubsidy" in the console, we get 20 and 17.5, respectively. If we multiply by absolute network hashrate numbers, we get even smaller numbers. I can't get close to "blockvalue" either. 

230.872 / 287,377,581,600 = .0000000008

203.2 / 287,377,581,600 = .0000000007

I'm still at a loss trying to get the numbers to "balance out" and I'm sure that's it's my lack of understanding a complicated formula that takes time and effort to explain, time and effort not necessarily available or well spent at the moment, and, as such, I do not expect any immediate response to this - just posting my "Rubik's Cube" ponderings. 

A recent  "getmininginfo" snapshot leaves me with the same quandary.
{
"blocks" : 21242,
"currentblocksize" : 0,
"currentblocktx" : 0,
"difficulty" : {
"proof-of-work" : 22.91746578,
"proof-of-stake" : 10.10269522,
"search-interval" : 0
},
"blockvalue" : 17700000000,
"netmhashps" : 2008.77073548,
"netstakeweight" : 592733.68530821,
"errors" : "",
"pooledtx" : 0,
"stakeweight" : {
"minimum" : 0,
"maximum" : 0,
"combined" : 0
},
"stakeinterest" : 20000000,
"testnet" : false
}

(8 * 22.91746578 / (525600 + 21242) * 525600)

183.33972624 / (546842 * 525600)

183.33972624 / 287420155200 = .00000000063

What do we multiply the .00000000063 number by to get a block reward of 177?

280952380952 * .00000000063 = 176.99999999
Where does that 280952380952 number come from. 

Just having fun and doing my best to understand, but this is not mission critical and requires no immediate attention.   


Again, great work you guys!

    High performance Node.js backend
    Coin Maturity: 500 blocks
    Min Payout: 10 AID
     Low Fees: 1%

http://maya.aidbit.net/
http://felix.aidbit.net/
http://kei.aidbit.net:8888/

An outstanding job!

Is it still just a bit too early to state that this was a smashing success? Should we still knock on/touch wood?

Congratulations!!!

Is the Windows wallet supported on Windows XP?

There are always two sides to every coin, and the worst thing we can ever be faced with is the nagging question, "what would have happened if I'd only tried to . . . "

It wouldn't be the end of the world if it didn't work either - there's always a way to turn a negative into a positive . . .

On the other hand, I'm sure that this wouldn't be the last thing to try.  

I admire your determination and dedication. If anyone can make it work, it's someone like you.

Go for it!

And not because I say so.


Add: After giving it an initial mulling over, it sounds like a sensational idea - it would also go a long ways towards creating scarcity as a by product and keep the pool hoppers, multipools and short termers at arms length. Let's hope it works!

I wouldn't be too hard on the community, I mean, what's the block reward now? 25 Groestlcoin? Who would want to mine that? Not even ASIC if they could! And now no PoS? Not that PoS was going to succeed with such a small user base and such limited money supply to begin with . . .

I wouldn't put so much responsibility on the community. That's like blaming customers who don't buy for a company's failure. If people don't buy, there's usually a good reason why, and nobody's giving money away.

BTW, with AidBit, are you solo mining or on the official pool?

I'm going to start a philosophical debate, and I'm going to do so starting off by saying, every cloud has its silver lining.

Theoretically, PoS isn't of much value until there's already a large, widely distributed money supply to serve, isn't that correct? Otherwise it makes no theoretical sense, right? (Those who are already asking for the ETA for POW's scheduled end do get a chuckle out of me.)

I've always said (first time here on this thread) that PoS should only come once POW is done.

In my opinion, PoS shouldn't even be considered until PoS rewards are > POW rewards, and not one day sooner.

That's the theoretical debate, that perhaps leads to the silver lining of all these cloudy issues we've been experiencing. On merits alone (what benefits does PoS really bring us?), that is to say, theoretically, at the present time, does PoS really make sense?

I'm all for junking it until it's actually more valuable than POW, and just letting Groestl POW do its thing!

(It might have been a noble idea and effort, but has anyone made a hybrid POW/PoS work yet? As far as I know, even DMD is still having [important] problems with its PoS payouts minting . . .)